Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Saint Nathan]

I am trying very hard to like these.

Very, very hard.

It is not working.

I am up to like, #80, and the only time I actually thought "oh hey this is kinda cool" was Endgame.

also sonic apparently has endless super forms. what the fuck. i mean ultra sonic? Eco-Sonic?!

[-Mark-]

Just read SU #15. Wow, seriously, Sally slugging Fiona in the gut hard enough to make her double up after Fiona was taunting Tails was just... epic =D Most awesome thing I've seen Sal do in a while. You go, girl!

Sonic Universe #15 was the first Archie Sonic (aside from this years' FCBD issue) I'd got since the Sonic X comic ended (I dropped the regular series at #164). And I must admit, that line regarding the punch at the end "I thought it was kinda hot" did make me giggle a fair bit.

Not sure I'll bother with the main series again, and I don't plan on getting Universe regularly either, but I want to get the upcoming Tails arc. May as well get the last issue of Journey to the East too, even if I did jump in halfway.

[JaidynReiman]

I don't necessarily think that making a more "playful Eggman" in the comics is a good thing, especially since I honestly don't think that's the idea for Eggman in the games, either. I'm not saying he's not goofy at times--he is, but he's also still quite menacing when he wants to be, and he seems to be coming back out of that a bit as well where his recent outings have been a lot more badass.

I will admit, though, that I'm enjoying some of the more recent comics a bit better than the early plots. I still don't read them, mind you, but I'm referring to the plots from what I've read up on them. I don't like the old ones a lot, and the recent ones I find to be "okay" at best. I absolutely loathe the Mobius: XX Years Later ones, though.

Regardless, again I say that Archie is taking Eggman in the wrong direction. I don't see Eggman as goofy in the games as they're trying to lead him now, and it very much seems that he's going in the opposite direction in the games (still goofy, but less so, and more villainous). Of course, other people probably disagree with me.

[GameboyHero]

I am trying very hard to like these.

Very, very hard.

It is not working.

I am up to like, #80, and the only time I actually thought "oh hey this is kinda cool" was Endgame.

also sonic apparently has endless super forms. what the fuck. i mean ultra sonic? Eco-Sonic?!

You're just reaching to issue 80? My friend, you're heading toward the more retarded part of the comics soon. Sadly it stays like that for quite a while till Ian comes into the writing staff (I forget which comics he comes in).

I wish you luck.

[-Mark-]

I absolutely loathe the Mobius: XX Years Later ones, though.

Didn't/ doesn't everyone? D:

[Flyboy Fox]

If the letters page is anything to go by, more Mobius XYL stories are in the works DDDDD:

[-Mark-]

But they're the single worst thing of an already-not-great series. D: D:

OH GOD WHY @_@

Seriously, they're just like the most ridiculous bad fanfics I've ever come across. Granted I've not read (nor do I want to, frankly) any after the first (how many have there been? I'm aware of two), but it was just horrid. Most of it was pointless, slice-of-life fluff with no real plot, until they shoehorned something ridiculous in at the last second.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Mahzes

[Badnik Zero]

I only really know the old comics, so I can comment on this. You could say a continuous plot starts around issue #11 when Evil Sonic is introduced via the Cosmic Interstate. Early things are established like how Knuckles knows Sally from before Robotnik came around. Robo-Robotnik is also introduced in #19 when all the Sonics take down that thing. The EVE storyline at #21 was pretty good. Robotnik "dies" and Robo-Robotnik comes around to save him. From what I understand that's kinda foreshadowing things. EVE returns in a later storyline if I'm not mistaken. A solid continuous story picks up after Mecha Madness and onwards. Madness was a great arc and the following issues go into the rescue of Sally's father, who is crystallized. Endgame and all that. Actually, Knuckles' story starts a bit earlier with Archimedes the Fire Ant and his heritage arc, which is the introduction of Dmitri and Enerjak. And I believe Fiona Fox was introduced during the Tails mini-series or some stand alone story with Tails on an island. It's really cool to hear you guys talk about this stuff and read up on how they developed even small backstories over the years. I stopped when I believed the comic was going nowhere. Mammoth Mogul and Ixis Naugus weren't the same as the old Robotnik stuff.

[Dr. Mechano]

FCBD issue was awesome.

It was a great look at the entertaining nature of Eggman's character, even if some will argue it diminishes him as a villain. Eggman is a funny and likable guy, antagonist or otherwise, so I was thrilled by this portrayal of the doctor.

[Flyboy Fox]

And I believe Fiona Fox was introduced during the Tails mini-series or some stand alone story with Tails on an island.

It was a two-part (I think?) Tails solo adventure in the main comic. It was robo-Fiona though, not the real Fiona.

[GameboyHero]

It was a two-part (I think?) Tails solo adventure in the main comic. It was robo-Fiona though, not the real Fiona.

One parter I believe plus out of nowhere it added the Aqua Fox from (I think) Sonic Triple Trouble/Tails Adventure.

Probably why I still remember this cause I still like the character Fiona (granted, it took a while to like the evil Fiona cause of Scourge *shakes fist in air* but things seems slightly better now.)

[Flyboy Fox]

Sea Fox. And I'm pretty sure it was at least two parts.

[GameboyHero]

Sea Fox. And I'm pretty sure it was at least two parts.

Probably. It's been about 3-4 years since I last read them, so my memory is just slipping.

Time to catch up on the latest stuff from 201 and skip all of XX years later in Sonic Universe!

[The Kid]

Never really read the sonic universe comics, although I'm sure they're amazing. If anything Archie needs to up the evil factor of Eggman. There's nothing better than a somewhat depressing arc to keep the suspense going.

[Fox Gungrave]

Universe comics are not necessary but very pleasant to read, especially the recent ones which complete the Iron Dominion saga and the Knuckles arc which brings back good old memories when a Knuckles series existed.

[Dr. Mechano]

If anything Archie needs to up the evil factor of Eggman. There's nothing better than a somewhat depressing arc to keep the suspense going.

Evil needn't be depressing. I rather like the idea that Eggman is, albeit evil, a manically happy fellow who views this whole struggle as one big game for his childish amusement. Thus, Archie's Eggman is both comical and terrifying at the same time, playfully yet lethally threatening all who oppose him with his toy-like weapons and gag-inspired gadgets of destruction, to say nothing of his amusing and witty dialog.

If anything, his saving Sonic's life is not an indication of his incapability as a villain, but rather support for his giddy and playful personality- Which in and of itself is a reflection of how twisted this incarnation of Eggman is. Someone merely after power would certainly opt for just killing his nemesis as quickly as possible- Eggman, however, wants to have fun while utterly defeating his lifelong archenemy. A desire for power is not merely what motivates him; The thrill of villainy itself motivates him, making him a truly bad person in the comic continuity.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I find it incredibly one-sided how Eggman shouldn't be anything less than a cold-hearted killing machine in order to be evil.

Why can't a villian have more layers of personality to them instead of being that guy who destroys things because he's evil? It's as if being goofy is not allowed on a character who is supposed to be threatening.

[Flyboy Fox]

As long as he's evil, I don't mind if he's not as dark and broody as his predecessor. I just want at least one incarnation of him to be absolutely and irredeemably wicked and twisted. I can accept a playful nature as long as it doesn't ruin his badassery.

[Dr. Mechano]

As long as he's evil, I don't mind if he's not as dark and broody as his predecessor. I just want at least one incarnation of him to be absolutely and irredeemably wicked and twisted. I can accept a playful nature as long as it doesn't ruin his badassery.

And my argument is that Archie's Eggman has exactly that. Archie Eggman, in contrast to his game counterpart, is irredeemably and psychotically evil; He's just evil in a playful and comedic fashion. Ian Flynn himself compared Archie Eggman to the Joker in this regard; Eggman is off-the-wall and totally hilarious, yet nonetheless totally and completely twisted in his villainous schemes. Then again, Ian would later (in an unrelated discussion) remark that Eggman was like "a fat wacky Batman," so take that as you will.

I think the difference separating Archie's current incarnation of Eggman and the old SatAM-inspired Julian is not one of morality, but one of a purely stylistic aesthetic. Julian was an overlord, and Eggman is a supervillain. Both are distinct flavors of the same degree of evil, I'd argue.

[Mangoaxe5]

I find it incredibly one-sided how Eggman shouldn't be anything less than a cold-hearted killing machine in order to be evil.

Why can't a villian have more layers of personality to them instead of being that guy who destroys things because he's evil? It's as if being goofy is not allowed on a character who is supposed to be threatening.

I don't mind Eggman having layers to his personality, but I think that there needs to be a balance to him. I just hope that he doesn't become like his Sonic X counterpart.

[ChaosXVI]

I honestly don't see why Ian doesn't just reintroduce the Robotnik Prime as a more "SatAM" styled Robotnik as a way to please the older fans, he definitely isn't above tweaking the storyline in the name of fan service.

Then he can decide whether or not to have them work together, or perhaps Prime will try to take down Eggman and regain his empire...certainly not the worst idea the comic has produced.

[AuroraRedwinters]

I honestly don't see why Ian doesn't just reintroduce the Robotnik Prime as a more "SatAM" styled Robotnik as a way to please the older fans, he definitely isn't above tweaking the storyline in the name of fan service.

Then he can decide whether or not to have them work together, or perhaps Prime will try to take down Eggman and regain his empire...certainly not the worst idea the comic has produced.

I like SATAM and all but... no. He is as dead as a doorknob.

[Saint Nathan]

I honestly don't see why Ian doesn't just reintroduce the Robotnik Prime as a more "SatAM" styled Robotnik as a way to please the older fans, he definitely isn't above tweaking the storyline in the name of fan service.

Wasn't he not only beat to high hell by Sonic, but erased from existance?

... Like, twice?

If he came back he'd fit the name "Robotnik Prime" even more so.

That, and I think Robo-Robotnik is a cool guy. Eh keeps copies of himself and doesn't afraid of death.

[Illuminous_Orb]

Really long reply. Yah! I've actually been reading my back issues. It's been years since I read them, and I would like to see how some of them hold up now. I’ll survey them by writer rather than era as the latter would take long to do.

Michael Gallagher-

Many people have always said that his work was too comical and silly that they don't really weight it at all. His early stuff was filled with puns, had nonsensical off-the-wall art, and hardly shows any cohesiveness of any continuity whatsoever. It definitely doesn't hold up well at all, but for what it was it seemed to have the right ideas for what Sonic was about at that point in his career. It sounds silly saying this now, but back then as a child in the early 90's, what would you have accepted as a right tone of story for Sonic? Okay, maybe not as all that silly as what Mike did, but it worked for it's time.

Many people don't really give him the benefit of the doubt because of his early stuff, but some of his later stuff was pretty good if you actually check the credit box every once in a while. He was able to really show some really great character interactions as seen in Mecha Madness, as well as some nice action scenes like in the Death Egg Saga. I always thought that after he got the hang of it, he was able to write Robotnik prime a lot better that any of the other writers. Sure, his Dr. R wasn't quite as menacing and was a little more playful, but he was able to find a nice balance between both being a serious threat, and a tough adversary for Sonic and the Freedom Fighters. But he still has his other downsides. Does he really have to have every character describe exactly and as informative about what's happening to them in every single panel? And some of his "explanations" seemed to be a little too long-winded and used jargon that a nine year old would have never understood.

Angelo Desarce-

I really like most of Desarce's work. He was able to pull off stories that weren't too silly like Gallagher, and not too convulted like Penders, as well as appropriating a story that fit the tone that the comic was developing into during the time. He usually stayed in his little "niche" when writing them though; and some of his dialogue seemed to come off a little narmy looking back. He didn't stay after Endgame; which is pretty disappointing, as I really wanted to see what else he could have done if he stayed a little longer.

Ken Penders-

When people think of Archie Sonic's writer, people would easily say his name first, even though he never wrote as many stories as Karl Bollers. Is it because his name is more easy to recognize or because he had a bigger impact on the book or what? I dunno. He is arguably the most controversial writer on the book because of that same impact he had. His stories sometimes seemed too convulted and hardly made much sense when looking back at them, as well as taking the book into a more darker turn. And why is it that he seemed to always ignore the source material of the games in favor of creating new material that sometimes didn't seem to mesh well with Sonic at all? He himself stated he never even played the games and only used what little material SEGA gave him so it seemed a little hypocritical to pretty much ignore the game mythos if you were going to work for a video game licensed character. And then there is his echidna bias. Oh boy, his echidna bias -- which I will not get into because that’s for another subject. He also worked with Mike Kantrovich and Kent Taylor for a few issues; as well as both of them filling in for a story or two, but I could never tell either of them apart when compared to Ken.

Even with all his faults, he was able to pull through and make something that was interesting, compelling, and was pretty cool that could be enjoyed. It wasn't until the Knuckles series ended did he start to lose his luster and just seemed to forget exactly what direction he was trying to take.

Karl Bollers-

He's been the series' "main" writer, if only because he has written more stories than any other by a large margin. I've not read all of his work and mostly because issues after 75 cost so much to buy used which makes it really difficult to obtain the issues in the first place. Of the ones that I have knowledge of, he seemed to have a better “heart” for the characters and understood them both as a couple of teenagers, and a bunch of woodland creatures fighting a war. Although, some of his ideas were pretty good, this doesn’t always make great storytelling. His execution was lacking in many of them; especially when he didn’t know how to balance it one way or the other and just seemed to lopside too far in one direction. I’m sure people know which one that was.

Frank Storm-

He was one of the "freelancers" that came to do a few stories and add something a little different that some the other staff didn't do at the time. I've only read two of his stories, but of what I gathered from second hand sources, he seemed to have this odd sense of judgment and entitlement and just seemed to focus on making Monkey Khan, his own original character, be seen in a better light that Sonic. It somewhat sounds silly, even though that was the case of the two issue I’ve read.

Romy Chacon-

I've only read two story that she wrote, and I can honestly say that ther were pretty forgettable. I really don't know much about her or what the fans have to say.

Ian Flynn-

Much like Penders, his work is pretty controversial but for completely different reasons. His work is either hit or miss-- ...but it depends on who you ask. When he and Tracy Yardely! came aboard, the comic was in desperate need of some new talent to get it out of the giant rut that the previous staff dug themselves into. They eventually turned the comic into something that was actually “fun” for once, which almost seemed unheard of at the time. His stories are slightly more lighthearted and action packed that hasn’t been seen since Mike G. came aboard. Throw in some great dialogue and you’ve got something great going on.

People either love him or hate him, but he does arguably have the potential to take the comic into an even better position than when he first started, or where it's at right now. It's up to people's opinions into what that direction that really is.

Ranked by favorite, tl;dr:

Angelo Desarce- <3 I enjoyed his work; hardly any negatives

Ian Flynn- Great fun, and a joy to read

Mike Gallegher- He's hit or miss, but I liked his stuff for what it was

Karl Bollers- I liked parts of his work, but he overstayed his welcome later on

Ken Penders- He's okay, but some of his stories were too "out there" for Sonic

Frank Storm- Indifferent

Romy Chacon- it's not that I don't like her, it's just that I don't have much to weight them

I might do this with the artists, but there's like three times as many of them as there are writers. =/ I'll see to it if laziness doesn't kick in.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Read the preview of Sonic Universe 16 and everyone's being mean to Espio. I like how they have a go at past occurences too. (The Sneak and Captain Super fox-man ) along with Sally's hidden birthmark. Dirty......