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#1921 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:33 AM

No offense flyboy, but this is comming from the same guy who said he wouldn't have sex with a dog because he had a girlfriend.


I am thoroughly confused. What the HELL does that have to do with anything? Also I am a girl O.o FAIL.

The problem with that is that interracial marriage is a more socially accepted issue than homosexuality, as racism has been treated with political incorrectness, so you are outwardly expected to accept it. However homosexuality is CERTAINLY not at that point yet and is still openly met with hostility.


And attitudes like yours are exactly why. If you make a big deal about a character's sexual persuasion then of COURSE people are going to be ruffled, feeling like it's being forced down their throat. People need to be shown that gay people are exactly the same as straight people in everything but who they are physically attracted to.

So? Why isn't she mad? And why didn't Amy take that approach? And its not a matter of disagreeing with them, its for her betraying their trust or mistreating Sonic. Very valid reasons to hate her for.


Hate hate hate. Maybe they're just not as consumed with hate as you apparently are.

Also, here's what's funny. A few people in this thread have been complaining that there's a lack of equality because there are tomboys but not more feminine girls. Yet those SAME people are ALSO complaining because a character was shown as gay. What utter hypocrisy. Sure, let's make sure the character types that YOU want represented are there... but God forbid they show a character who has a trait you DON'T have a preference for!

#1922 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:47 AM

Umm no that wasn't what she was saying at all. Ken's writing is liberal to the degree that it feels like his writing is just there to make a point and not actually be entertaining. He's so consumed by his political messages, that it supercedes his ability to tell a story. He cares more about preaching about what women should be (i.e by altering Sally's original character) than just telling a story. He wants to be "feminist" but he comes from such social privledge that he doesn't know how to be pro woman and depict many different types of women who can maintain dignity and respect.


I think I understand. The issue is apparently more with his ability to make stories consistent than his political stance, if I am reading you correctly.

Actually he DID like Sally when she was disguised as a sorceress....and wanted to marry her


Heh, you're right, come to think of it...That story was kind of cute in a weird way.


No offense flyboy, but this is comming from the same guy who said he wouldn't have sex with a dog JUST because he had a girlfriend.


What does this mean?O_o It doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

#1923 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:49 AM

I think it's either a red herring or a strawman or an ad hominem, Blazey. Not entirely sure which, but it has no place in this argument because it doesn't in any way affect the validity of my opinion here.

#1924 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:52 AM

I think it's either a red herring or a strawman or an ad hominem, Blazey. Not entirely sure which, but it has no place in this argument because it doesn't in any way affect the validity of my opinion here.


Yeah, you're right, it's a completely unrelated tangent, whatever it is.

#1925 redmenace

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:54 AM

Again the accusations that I have something against gay people. I'm giving up on this sorry.

#1926 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:58 AM

Amy wasn't raised by Sally, she's only been with them for a year at BEST before her physical change, and if anything Sally was a thorn in her side for joining the freedom fighters, and blamed it on trying to keep her away from Sonic, while they reward Tails to be a freedom fighter despite his reckless decision to go solo. Tails may've faced more perils, but they chose to make him a freedom fighter right after doing something that could've gotten him killed.


I'll grant you the stuff about Amy...But wasn't the point of the Tails Mini-series that Tails grew up a bit? I mean yes, he was recklessly putting his own life in danger at first, but wasn't the point of that mini that he learned(Well, re-learned, I guess)about friendship and teamwork through meeting and fighting alongside the Downunda Freedom Fighters?

Edited by BlazeyBakeneko, 04 November 2009 - 02:58 AM.


#1927 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:01 AM

Again the accusations that I have something against gay people. I'm giving up on this sorry.


You come across as having something against gay people by actively campaigning for one type of person to be included, then actively complaining about another (when that other has only a tiny exposure, no less!). If that's not anti-gay sentiment, I don't know what is.

Either you're anti-gay, or you actively don't want to progress forward from the dark ages.

#1928 Kiljoy

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:16 AM

Oh, so shall we talk about the slave trade and why not everyone agrees with interracial marriages just because Nate Morgan is black, hmm? Boo-hoo, kids gonna be corrupted by an incredibly brief insinuation that a character is gay.


But if I read it I might catch the gay. Next thing you know I will be singing show tunes and decorating houses.

#1929 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:20 AM

But if I read it I might catch the gay. Next thing you know I will be singing show tunes and decorating houses.


Robotnik"Snively! Go to the Great Forest, and don't come back until every last Mobian is FABULOUS!"

But in all seriousness, that was an excellent bit of satire you just made.^_^

#1930 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:20 AM

This has already happened to me. The moment I saw a character casually insinuated to be homosexual, my mind began to eat itself from the inside at the horrific implication that these people might be quietly living amongst us, and if we didn't exploit their most intimate secrets to the world, we might never know!

Of course, I immediately demanded that my strong anti-gay sentiments be taken into account and that at least one other character be shown to be repulsed by the fact that this fellow was bumping uglies with, ugh, another fellow! It was important that there be a major plot point here so that everyone could see that being gay actually has a huge influence on everyone, instead of merely being a single unobtrusive trait.

Of course, by then, I had already caught The Gay. Alas, too late for me... but please fight on in my name so that others may continue to keep their pages clean and free from this evil plague threatening to... gasp... let kids know that it's no big deal to be gay!

#1931 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:23 AM

This has already happened to me. The moment I saw a character casually insinuated to be homosexual, my mind began to eat itself from the inside at the horrific implication that these people might be quietly living amongst us, and if we didn't exploit their most intimate secrets to the world, we might never know!

Of course, I immediately demanded that my strong anti-gay sentiments be taken into account and that at least one other character be shown to be repulsed by the fact that this fellow was bumping uglies with, ugh, another fellow! It was important that there be a major plot point here so that everyone could see that being gay actually has a huge influence on everyone, instead of merely being a single unobtrusive trait.

Of course, by then, I had already caught The Gay. Alas, too late for me... but please fight on in my name so that others may continue to keep their pages clean and free from this evil plague threatening to... gasp... let kids know that it's no big deal to be gay!


Hee hee hee.:D

The sooner people stop treating homosexuality like it's an abomination against nature(Instead of something completely normal that been around for thousands of years, just behind closed doors), the better.

#1932 Viuely

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:28 AM

I am thoroughly confused. What the HELL does that have to do with anything? Also I am a girl O.o FAIL.


No what's "Fail" is that you can't see homosexuality as a liberal issue considering you are pro beastiality...AND a lesbian. I'm quite shocked really. That doesn't actually help you. By conservative standards homosexuality was considered a disease. The more progressive standard is that it is natural and biological.You need to understand that politics consist of "people" and therefore "traits" people have can be considered progressive or conservative, and can thus be embraced by a political party. People who politically consider themselves conservative affiliate with more traditional human traits/behaviors/etc. whereas people who consider themselves more liberal associate with less traditional trais and behaviors in society

And attitudes like yours are exactly why. If you make a big deal about a character's sexual persuasion then of COURSE people are going to be ruffled, feeling like it's being forced down their throat.

Seriously, most of the kids and people reading this book are comming into the book with or without their own biases that come from their parents, the media, social institutions (where kids play the "are you gay" game) and so on. They're not getting ruffled JUST because this book is telling them to. Secondly I think you are missing the point. If say, Mighty and Ray are holding hands in Echidnanopolis and an echidna makes a face or says something nasty it doesn't mean we're dissuading or persuading people to be "ruffled" and hateful towards the gay experience, but, just like women's issues, be aware these problems exist. It wouldn't be any more than we expect them to be "ruffled" when Nate had juice poured down his back for being an overlander. It is simply the portrayl of the experience for better or for worse. Not pretending it doesn't exist. And I don't mean just for Rotor, I mean for future characters that might be portrayed gay in the future.

People need to be shown that gay people are exactly the same as straight people in everything but who they are physically attracted to.


I'm not saying they're not equal as people, but I'm saying they're going to through different obstacles traditional couples face.Thats like saying female social issues in the book should not be touched on because females are equal, when the issue is more or less to portray the femal e expereince in ways females can relate to, not demean them as individuals . We are, just like gays are, defined by the many struggles in life we have. Even if for no other reason it gives us more strgnth than more privledged people have. Even if the Mobian society was accepting towards the gay issue, the same problem with Sally being too distant from women's issues would become a problem for people with gay issues but on a much more broader scale because it's the whole society.

Also, here's what's funny. A few people in this thread have been complaining that there's a lack of equality because there are tomboys but not more feminine girls. Yet those SAME people are ALSO complaining because a character was shown as gay. What utter hypocrisy. Sure, let's make sure the character types that YOU want represented are there... but God forbid they show a character who has a trait you DON'T have a preference for!


I'm not speaking on behalf of preference, rather than practicality. Number one, this book is in the CRITICAL low numbers for them to risk the readers, and I personally could hold out on something like this issue until the numbers stabilize. It's not like Marvel or DC where they could risk lesbian and gay couples without worrying over the readerbase. Number two, If anyone's the hypocrite...weren't you the one bawwing about Sally being possibly transgender and thereby being gay with Sonic?

Edited by Viuely, 04 November 2009 - 03:45 AM.


#1933 American Ristar

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:29 AM

Speaking of Nate Morgan, is anyone else convinced that his design was inspired by Morgan Freeman?

... As a midget? He looks like a dwarfed Morgan Freeman, and let's not forget the name coincidence.

Edited by Stretchy Werewolf, 04 November 2009 - 03:32 AM.


#1934 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:31 AM

No what's "Fail" is that you can't see homosexuality os a liberal issue considering you are pro beastiality...AND a


O_o

Who...who was talking about bestiality? No one said anything about bestiality! Not Flyboy, not me, not anyone!

What's going on?;_;

Edited by BlazeyBakeneko, 04 November 2009 - 03:32 AM.


#1935 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:44 AM

No what's "Fail" is that you can't see homosexuality os a liberal issue considering you are pro beastiality...AND a lesbian. That doesn't actually help you. By conservative standards homosexuality was considered a disease. The more progressive standard is that it is natural and biological.You need to understand that politics consist of "people" and therefore "traits" people have can be considered progressive or conservative, and can thus be embraced by a political party.


Excuse me?! That is out of line. I am NOT "pro-bestiality". I am also bi-sexual, and so therefore not technically a lesbian.

You are an idiot and an incredibly offensive one at that.

If anyone's the hypocrite...weren't you the one bawwing about Sally being possibly transgender and thereby being gay with Sonic?


... how about no? I merely found it offensive that anyone would think that Sally would have to be transgender simply because she is not feminine. She is obviously NOT transgender. If she actually was written to deliberately be transgender I would not have a problem with it at all. I have a problem with stereotypes, not sexual identity.

#1936 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:50 AM

... how about no? I merely found it offensive that anyone would think that Sally would have to be transgender simply because she is not feminine. She is obviously NOT transgender. If she actually was written to deliberately be transgender I would not have a problem with it at all. I have a problem with stereotypes, not sexual identity.


I agree that Sally is not transgender. If she were, I'd imagine she'd have been uncomfortable enough in her present body to have asked Rotor or Tails to invent something to alter it for her, by now.

#1937 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:53 AM

She clearly wasn't written to be transgender, and I was offended by the idea that a girl can't still happily be a girl despite having boyish traits. It's a very discriminatory view to take and makes me wonder if those bandying that view around will only be happy with Sally as a female lead if she's chained to a kitchen sink peeling potatoes with one hand and painting her toenails with the other.

#1938 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 03:58 AM

She clearly wasn't written to be transgender, and I was offended by the idea that a girl can't still happily be a girl despite having boyish traits. It's a very discriminatory view to take and makes me wonder if those bandying that view around will only be happy with Sally as a female lead if she's chained to a kitchen sink peeling potatoes with one hand and painting her toenails with the other.


Yeah, I'm quite surprised that the people holding that view seem to want to stuff her in the kitchen, especially since they appear to be female themselves.O_o

Cooking and grooming are not useful skills for an action book.^_^;;

#1939 Flyboy Fox

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 04:03 AM

Well, although it seems like there's a fair amount of support (three constant posters) for these anti-progressive views, bear in mind that Miko, Picchi and Viuely are sisters. Sure, if they can use facts about me and my lifestyle to de-validate my view, then I can do the same and say that it's little wonder that they have something of a hivemind going on here.

I'm sure there are some people who agree with some or even much of what they say, which is perfectly natural, but really it's the sisters three who are the only ones with these full extreme views, I think.

#1940 Blazey Firekitty

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 04:06 AM

Well, although it seems like there's a fair amount of support (three constant posters) for these anti-progressive views, bear in mind that Miko, Picchi and Viuely are sisters. Sure, if they can use facts about me and my lifestyle to de-validate my view, then I can do the same and say that it's little wonder that they have something of a hivemind going on here.

I'm sure there are some people who agree with some or even much of what they say, which is perfectly natural, but really it's the sisters three who are the only ones with these full extreme views, I think.


Yeah I'd say you're right, that it's only the three of them who hold that specific mindset, even if others agree with them on certain elements of it.

As for me, I don't need Sally to be girly, and I don't personally feel that "girly" has to mean "not a fighter," anyway, even though the sisters seem to be saying that. Amy, Bunnie, Blaze, and Rouge all seem quite feminine to me(Even if Blaze has her tomboyish side), and they are all perfectly capable fighters.

Edited by BlazeyBakeneko, 04 November 2009 - 04:06 AM.





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