93 replies to this topic

[-Mark-]

Well, a quick forum search shows that, whilst there's been some discussion on the matter, there doesn't yet seem to be a specific topic purely for discussing and speculating various plotholes in Sonic.

There's a couple I've got on my mind that I want to throw out for discussion;

Firstly, Sonic 06 (who saw that one coming? ). Okay, I know I'm probably a fool for trying to make sense of a plot that ultimately hits the reset button on itself anyway, but hear me out for a second; I'd heard long before playing the game that the Blue chaos emerald is stuck in an endless time loop- however, as far as I can tell:

>Silver gives it to Elise ten years ago

>Elise holds into it for ten years, then gives it to Sonic after she's first kidnapped

>Sonic gives it to Eggman at White Acropolis

>????

>PLOTHOLE?

Okay, admittedly, I can't remember Silver's story in too much depth, so if anyone can remind me how the blue emerald comes into his posession in order for him to give it to Elise, I'll be grateful.

Whilst the first one might just be due to my bad memory, this one which I recently discovered in Sonic Adventure in a recent playthrough seems a lot more confusingly concrete;

Namely, when Knuckles follows Gamma back to Eggman's Mystic Ruins base? That's all well and good, and I'm surprised I never questioned this before, but as far as I can remember, Gamma never actually makes the trip from Red Mountain to the base throughout the course of his plot. In fact, Gamma never goes back to the Mystic Ruins base at all after leaving it at the beginning of his story. After Red Mountain, Gamma heads straight to the (already crashed) Egg Carrier, meaning that the only time Knuckles could have followed him in order to get onto the Egg Carrier in the first place, was after it had already crashed. And considering Gamma's storyline covers the entirety of his lifetime, from the moment he's activated until he's destroyed, you can't possibly leave it up to the assumption that it's something you just see between scenes.

So what the hell actually happens? Knuckles follows Gamma back to a place Gamma doesn't go to, at a time when Gamma isn't even there. Maybe Knuckles is just hallucinating or something. D:

Edited by Mahzes, 04 September 2010 - 09:18 AM.

[American Ristar]

I try not to go into Sonic '06. The emerald thing is just another reason the timeline needed to reset.

Also, I've never played the game.

Here's one. The moon has a chunk missing? The moon only shows one side to Earth. When the Eclipse Cannon fired, it took a chunk out of the moon, and that was visible for a while. But it must have caused a slight rotation, hiding the busted surface from facing forward. So where's the hole in the moon? On the dark side.

[Core]

Firstly, Sonic 06 (who saw that one coming? ). Okay, I know I'm probably a fool for trying to make sense of a plot that ultimately hits the reset button on itself anyway, but hear me out for a second; I'd heard long before playing the game that the Blue chaos emerald is stuck in an endless time loop- however, as far as I can tell:

>Silver gives it to Elise ten years ago

>Elise holds into it for ten years, then gives it to Sonic after she's first kidnapped

>Sonic gives it to Eggman at White Acropolis

>????

>PLOTHOLE?

Okay, admittedly, I can't remember Silver's story in too much depth, so if anyone can remind me how the blue emerald comes into his posession in order for him to give it to Elise, I'll be grateful.

From what I remember, Silver finds the blue emerald on the ground (on the snow) after having defeated the boss in White Acropolis (I think it was called Egg Genesis?). It was then that Blaze told him to keep it as a lucky charm, so Silver told that to Elise when he gave her the emerald. I'll try to find a video.

[-Mark-]

Ah, fair enough, that solves that one.

Still... what about Knuckles following the nonexistant Gamma?

[Core]

I've found two videos if you want to see:
English
Japanese and HD

About Gamma, it's been a while but from what I can remember, this had to happen just after Gamma got Froggy. After Emerald Coast I think you don't see Gamma returning to the Mystic Ruins base, even though he obviously did; that was just before the Egg Carrier took off. Only problem is that Gamma didn't go to Red Mountain at that point, but we can assume he just took a shortcut?

[NastCF]

The blue Chaos Emerald thing is only that confusing inside the game's story.. if Elise has had the emerald for 10 years, how the eff did it show up in every other Sonic game before that?

[Name's Ash. Housewares]

Ah, fair enough, that solves that one.

Still... what about Knuckles following the nonexistant Gamma?

Gamma returns to the Mystic Ruins base just before the Egg Carrier takes off, as seen here. But if you watch this video, we see that Gamma never leaves the base before the Egg Carrier takes off. I'm going with plot hole for this one.

Edited by Running Wild, 04 September 2010 - 11:13 AM.

[Core]

OK, looking at that second video, it is apparently Tikal who teleported Gamma back to the Egg Carrier. So, uh, I'm just going to assume that when Knuckles saw Gamma, Gamma was moving on auto-pilot while his "consciousness" was in the past. Either that, or that "Gamma" was in fact Delta, Epsilon or Zeta who found a frog in Red Mountain and they just messed up with the model.
And did the Egg Carrier take off twice? Or did they just misplaced that scene? I remember that Big got on the Egg Carrier before it took off, by following Gamma who had Froggy, right?

[DarkOverord]

Here's one. The moon has a chunk missing? The moon only shows one side to Earth. When the Eclipse Cannon fired, it took a chunk out of the moon, and that was visible for a while. But it must have caused a slight rotation, hiding the busted surface from facing forward. So where's the hole in the moon? On the dark side.

Honestly? That kind of blast should've knocked the moon's orbit out a fair bit. Not rotate it on it's axis :V

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bl8_-9GRPM#t=0m58s

In fact, looking at that, it blast knocks out a fair bit of the sea's on the moon. But, they're fine in Sonic Heroes Plus. If the moon had rotated, there'd be no seas facing the Earth, just meteor impacts :B

No matter HOW you try to think it out, it just seems that the producers went with "....let's pretend it never happened"

Edited by DarkOverord, 04 September 2010 - 04:08 PM.

[Edge]

That... DAMN... blue chaos emerald!

Well I think that one plot hole is how all 4 teams were going through the exact same stages at the exact same time and only bumped into each other twice and it was only two teams bumping into two teams and they both fought at the same time too. That plot hole is so confusing that it made my explanation confusing.

Here's where they should have started
Team Sonic: Rail Canyon
Team Dark: Bullet Station
Team Rose: Sea Gate (they got that one right)
Team Chaotix: Considering they were taking orders I really can't say for this one.

Here's one. The moon has a chunk missing? The moon only shows one side to Earth. When the Eclipse Cannon fired, it took a chunk out of the moon, and that was visible for a while. But it must have caused a slight rotation, hiding the busted surface from facing forward. So where's the hole in the moon? On the dark side.

Maybe Eggman felt bad and fixed it? Kind of like in Sonic X but not.

[Core]

About the moon, one of the levels in Sonic Riders Zero Gravity shows two moons. Maybe the moon that was destroyed by the Eclipse Cannon was a third moon that went out of its orbit after the shot.

Well I think that one plot hole is how all 4 teams were going through the exact same stages at the exact same time and only bumped into each other twice and it was only two teams bumping into two teams and they both fought at the same time too. That plot hole is so confusing that it made my explanation confusing.

I don't think they went through the stages at the exact same time, but rather one team after the other. For example Team Sonic reached Bullet Station last, since they saw the Egg Fleet which had just been launched and wasn't there for the three other teams. Or before Hang Castle, I remember Sonic saying that he saw Shadow before him.
The problem, however, is that it would mean that Eggman / Metal Sonic had 4 identical versions of every boss.

[DarkOverord]

Maybe Eggman felt bad and fixed it? Kind of like in Sonic X but not.

Thinking on it, by the tech level GUN Shows in Shadow the Hedgehog, and the fact the ARK is a civilian thing.I ponder if the United Federation could've easily sorted it out...

[Metal Gear (sting)RAY]

The blue Chaos Emerald thing is only that confusing inside the game's story.. if Elise has had the emerald for 10 years, how the eff did it show up in every other Sonic game before that?

Because that emerald was found in the present, not the past. Since it traveled back in time, it could be in two places at once in the past.

[Phos]

I seem to recall that the problem with all this is that Silver brings the white emerald forward with him... Unless the blue emerald that Silver found was the one that Elise had previously had with her.

And in Sonic Adventure 2: We see Knuckles in the aquatic mine level, and then it seems to be implied that he emerges from a manhole. So, was there meant to be some stuff in between those two scenes or has Knuckles been swimming around in sewage?

[Speederino]

There's not much point in analyzing the 'plot' of Sonic 06. That entire thing is just one gigantic plothole after another.

Maybe this isn't really a plot 'hole', but it still brings up a very damn good question. So in Sonic Adventure, Robotnik's plan is to collect the seven emeralds and feed them to Chaos, which he will then have destroy Station Square so he can build Robotnikland. Alright, there's actually a pretty solid plan in that, provided he can actually tame Chaos. But once that fails, he falls back to Plan B, which is to just nuke the city with a missile that he stationed just off the coast of the city.

Why in the crap didn't he just do that in the first place, instead of going through the painful process of beating Sonic to a bunch of mystical gems so he could feed them to a monster that's known as the totally trustworthy 'god of destruction'? ESPECIALLY when he already had a perfectly fine missile waiting just off the coast of the city he wanted to destroy? Yes, I know it turned out to be a dud. But he didn't know that. Why not try that first, and THEN fall back to the 'god of destruction' plan? Or just make another missile?

[Octarine]

Why in the crap didn't he just do that in the first place, instead of going through the painful process of beating Sonic to a bunch of mystical gems so he could feed them to a monster that's known as the totally trustworthy 'god of destruction'? ESPECIALLY when he already had a perfectly fine missile waiting just off the coast of the city he wanted to destroy? Yes, I know it turned out to be a dud. But he didn't know that. Why not try that first, and THEN fall back to the 'god of destruction' plan? Or just make another missile?

Using Chaos to level Station Square leaves Eggman with a god for a pet, for one thing. That ended up not working out for him at all, but there's every indication that he assumed Chaos would do what he told it to. Alternatively, maybe his best-case scenario was that he would "defeat" Chaos after Station Square was destroyed so he could be seen as a hero? It's kind of hard to imagine that working if he destroyed the city with a nuke instead.. but it's a bit of a stretch, considering how blatantly evil he was throughout most of Adventure. The best explanation is really just that he's Eggman, and the poor guy seems to have a mental condition that requires him to take on every needlessly complicated evil plot he thinks of, especially if it involves the Chaos Emeralds.

...actually, yet another theory: Eggman could well have picked up his stone tablets on Angel Island during the events of S3&K. He went through with the Chaos plan less because it made sense and more because it made the whole Death Egg thing feel like less of a waste of his time.

Edited by Octarine, 05 September 2010 - 08:03 AM.

[-Mark-]

Just remembered a fairly weird one from 06. Namely, throughout Shadow's Wave Ocean, Dusty Desert and the Soleanna town mission in between, Iblis monsters show up as the enemies for absolutely no reason, despite the fact that Iblis never has a presence outside of the future, considering it's still sealed in Elise until Mephiles kills Sonic.


Seriously, what the hell?

Also, there's that one line where the dub accidentally says 'book of darkness' instead of 'scepter of darkness'. But that's just a dubbing error (the subtitles even say 'scepter') rather than an actual plot mistake.

Edited by Mahzes, 08 September 2010 - 08:34 AM.

[Glenn]

Just remembered a fairly weird one from 06. Namely, throughout Shadow's Wave Ocean, Dusty Desert and the Soleanna town mission in between, Iblis monsters show up as the enemies for absolutely no reason, despite the fact that Iblis never has a presence outside of the future, considering it's still sealed in Elise until Mephiles kills Sonic.

Since Mephiles and Iblis come from a common seed (namely Solaris), I would assume that anything Iblis can do, Mephiles can do too. Okay, in the missions you describe? So the developers got sloppy (in Sonic '06...? No way) and lumped the two versions together, but if you recall, there are two distinct versions of the Solaris "minions"... one orange, and clearly on fire to represent Iblis, and one purple, swirling with dark energy to represent Mephiles. It gets even more amusing when you realise some of the future stages, including Flame Core, feature Mephiles' versions of the minions, but there we go!

Both are featured properly, side by side, in the End of the World. That's because Mephiles and Iblis have merged together to become Solaris, and both regain full control of their respective minions.

I like the word minions.





Minions.

[DuraV]

If Sonic’s eyes are connected and therefore must make up one big mass large enough fill his skull, where do the brains go?

[Blue Blood]

If Sonic’s eyes are connected and therefore must make up one big mass large enough fill his skull, where do the brains go?

In his spines.