730 replies to this topic

[Azure Yakuzu]

Well we all should've known that "Return to the classics" bit was bullshit.

Also Welcome/

[Machenstein]

I just finished playing the PSN demo.

I have been a Sonic 4 defender from the start and even I agree that some of the complaints are valid. Sonic's jumping physics are just weird, but I don't think it has anything to do with the physics themselves. It must have more to do with the the input/output functionality of the controls. I'm sure the engine can do aerial momentum just fine, I just think the programmer intentionally made it so you have to use the D-pad or else Sonic will stop dead. I believe the Rush games had this same problem too, but it's much more pronounced in Sonic 4. It's probably for this same reason why the Spin Dash feels so gimped.

Uncurling is just stupid, but I'm sure that's been discussed to death here. Other than those things, it's functional and there is some fun to be had. Hopefully a patch will come out to fix the things mentioned above.

Edited by Machenstein, 13 October 2010 - 04:50 AM.

[Joshi]

These are different people here, and they aren't gonna magically know how the other guys did things.

This is silly logic. Okay, sure, maybe the guys who did this stuff DON'T know how to make a good genesis-style game. But you know what you do in that case, when tying to make a Genesis game? You hire other people. If these guys are not equipped to do the job, then they should not be doing it.

I mean, this is not some magical thing. We already know that other people CAN do the same job. Shit, some fans can do the job better than these guys, for free. So, again, why are these guys getting paid to do a job they can't do?


The solution isn't to just grin and bear it. The solution is to hire someone who can do the goddamn job.

[Slingerland]

If you guys want a "Great" Sonic game, go track down the members of the first Sonic Team, and let them make it. These are different people here, and they aren't gonna magically know how the other guys did things.

That hasn't stopped fans. The resources to make a great Sonic game are there for anybody to use. It's not "magic." It's "hard work" and "knowledge." I mean, fans are already fixing the physics in Sonic 4. Endri's in the middle of that right now.

Stopping dead when letting go of the D-pad is easily the most infuriating part of this game. That doesn't require "changes to the level design" to fix. Unacceptable. I would be glowing about this game if it weren't for engine issues. They fix 'em for the next go-'round and they have a winner.

TSS reviews from every front page staffer are coming on Monday, by the way. Stay tuned.

EDIT: Thanks for the link, Joshi.

Edited by Slingerland, 13 October 2010 - 04:05 AM.

[Inferno]

Those are fans.

Fans know what they remember. Fans know what they want in their games.

Dimps are not the fans. Heck, I'll bet some of them never even played the original games, and their only point of reference were the handheld titles they helped make.

This is silly logic. Okay, sure, maybe the guys who did this stuff DON'T know how to make a good genesis-style game. But you know what you do in that case, when tying to make a Genesis game? You hire other people. If these guys are not equipped to do the job, then they should not be doing it.

Because giving the team that's been there for awhile the boot and looking for new guys in between games is very smart. Time is money, and frankly, even if the team's just making 'okay' games, the bucks are rolling in. It's all about the green stuff.

I mean, this is not some magical thing. We already know that other people CAN do the same job. Shit, some fans can do the job better than these guys, for free. So, again, why are these guys getting paid to do a job they can't do?

Those guys may be doing it for free but they have passion for their work, a drive that motivates them that's more important that money. The guys at Dimps? They're trying to put bread on the table. Simple logic. Game comes out $$$'s made, sad but true. And apparently, Sega think's their doing their job well, regardless of what we think.

The solution isn't to just grin and bear it. The solution is to hire someone who can do the goddamn job

But I like smiling, it warms the soul.

Edited by Ferno, 13 October 2010 - 04:16 AM.

[Joshi]

Smiling IS great, and yeah I would recommend doing it either way.

I understand the logic behind retaining these guys. They have experience with Sonic, they've shown they can do a job, and it's obviously easier to just use what's on-hand than go after what's best, as long as these guys are "good enough."

But what I'm getting at is your (unintended?) implication that only the original team can make a game like the originals. That's just not the case, and if the goal really is to make the best classic-style Sonic they can make it would behove them to use capable talent.

But that's not the goal, so I suppose it's all very beside the point.

[Sean]

Dimps made Sonic Pocket Adventure and the first Sonic Advance. Despite my disinterest in those titles, they had physics that were tolerable, cooperative, and not at all distracting. Why couldn't they have done this for Sonic 4?

I honestly would like Sonic 4 a lot more if it weren't for how terribly it plays. I find the level design to be largely inoffensive, if not somewhat unmemorable and tedious at parts. I think the Special Stages are atrocious, but that's the case with a lot of Sonic games. The graphics and music? They're bleh, but whatever. My numerous gripes about this game aside, I primarily don't like Sonic 4 because I don't like how it plays. If a physics hack really does come out for this game, I would honestly play it with more enthusiasm, like how I did with Sonic Advance before I got bored of it permanently.

So I disagree. Dimps is capable of making a physics engine for a classic-styled game that doesn't blow ass. They just apparently don't want to.

[EXshad]

In less than 3 hours, I've beaten every act, every boss, and gotten 4 of the Chaos Emeralds.

This game is overpriced. SEGA, make the subsequent episodes $10 next time, please. I love this game, I truly do, but it ain't worth $15.

[Phos]

Played the demo, it's garbage. Controls are unbelievable stiff, enemy placement is Dimps (count the times a spring send you towards a HA chain with no warning), and and a single level manages to feel monotonous.

But back to the controls, you still accelerate at the speed, now the wheel of feet just starts at a slower speed. I got the hilarious impression for a moment that I was doing the "slow run", a novel but mostly useless advanced technique that you can do as Sonic in SSBB. I knew that Sonic stopped dead in the air upon releasing the D-Pad, but I didn't realize that a similar thing happened on the ground as well. Going downhill, there's little difference in stopping distance between screeching and just releasing the D-Pad. I'd wager that they're virtually identical on level ground but can't think of a repeatable way to test it. I'd just wait a week for the inevitable level editor, but I doubt anyone cares enough to bother making making such a thing. This tendency to stop dead makes the game unbelievably sluggish any time Sonic isn't being impelled.

How far have standards for platformers fallen when a game like this gets such high scores? Oh, wait, it's a 2D Sonic game, so it uses the 7-10 review scale instead of the 1-10 scale.

Anyone 'not having fun because of the physics' you know just 'tested' the game instead of played it... You know... The folks that straight away started jumping over speed boosters, spinning where they're not supposed to, stopping on loops, when they know that's not how you're supposed to be playing... You know who you are.

So, what, you looked through the internet to see how other people were playing the game?

I have a fun thing to try, go and play one of the genesis games immodestly after playing some Sonic 4. Better yet, do the exact opposite, pick a level with some tough jumps like Flying Battery Zone (Or Labyrinth Zone if you've got the stones) and then play Sonic 4. See if it feels like Sonic is wading through pudding or not. I think I'll do that right now, minus the Sonic 4 part, of course.

[Speederino]

How far have standards for platformers fallen when a game like this gets such high scores? Oh, wait, it's a 2D Sonic game, so it uses the 7-10 review scale instead of the 1-10 scale.

OR, maybe you're just in the minority? I know, shocking. People on the internet, disagreeing with you. What kind of world do we live in?

[Inferno]

Sonic 4 sucks, the physics are terrible. It is the worst thing Sega could've ever conceived. I hate that they even tried to please me. Screw them.

I'm cool now.

[Joshi]

I hear if you make fun of the latest Sonic game, women will throw themselves at you for the next 48 hours.

(If you compliment it men will)

[Slash]

How far have standards for platformers fallen when a game like this gets such high scores?

So... um... How's the weather up there on that high horse?

I'm all for difference of opinions and all that, but that really reeked of holier-than-thou-ness.

[Machenstein]

Can we just calmly state our criticisms and hope a patch will come through for them? I'm sure a certain Sega representative is probably reading all of this right now.

[Inferno]

Can we just calmly state our criticisms and hope a patch will come through for them? I'm sure a certain Sega representative is probably reading all of this right now.

If they are, they're probably pissing their pants laughing.

Edited by Ferno, 13 October 2010 - 05:01 AM.

[Machenstein]

If they are, they're probably pissing their pants laughing.

I'm talking about RubyEclipse.

[Speederino]

I hear if you make fun of the latest Sonic game, women will throw themselves at you for the next 48 hours.

(If you compliment it men will)

Then I guess I'm gay.

Seriously though, can we stop with this shit now, people? This is quite clearly a love it or hate it sort of game as far as the fanbase is concerned...as per usual.

Edited by Speederino, 13 October 2010 - 05:03 AM.

[EXshad]

How far have standards for platformers fallen when a game like this gets such high scores?

And how low do you have to sink before you quit being condescending?

Seriously, I was a huge detractor of this game solely because of the physics. And I'll be damned if I didn't have a total blast with the game. So fucking what if Sonic stands on the side of a wall, the game plays very well when it comes down to the wire. And hey, it's great for a laugh. I could still use all the same tricks I used in the classics to get past the levels with ease. Usually that's a good sign that the game is a continuation of the classics. And I adored the pre-rendered graphics, the retrofitted music, and the level motifs and gimmicks (Lost Labyrinth's torch was brilliant), but it's all a matter of opinion.

And yeah, I have my own gripes with the game. And I expect people not to like it, as should everyone else. But really, when the only reason you think it should be marked down is because it doesn't piss solid gold like the Genesis games did, you need to wake up and smell the bullshit. In fact, that's why I think this game completely and utterly destroys Mega Man 9 and 10: because it dares to take a classic formula and update it for modern times, rather than playing it safe and just using the ol' "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mantra. And sure, maybe it didn't succeed in a few areas that the Genesis games did, but at least Dimps/Sonic Team/whoever the fuck made the game had the balls to try something new.

So play the game for what it is and judge it on it's own merits. Then if you don't like it, it's your right to bitch 'til the cows come home. But don't knock on us for actually having a good time with it.

Edited by EXshad, 13 October 2010 - 05:09 AM.

[Wreck-It Ralph]

I'm talking about RubyEclipse.

<insert repeat of Ferno's post>

Honestly, I can't see this as anything other than hilarious.

Edited by Hero Of Fate, 13 October 2010 - 05:06 AM.

[Speederino]

And how low do you have to sink before you quit being condescending?

Seriously, I was a huge detractor of this game solely because of the physics. And I'll be damned if I didn't have a total blast with the game. So fucking what if Sonic stands on the side of a wall, the game plays very well when it comes down to the wire. And hey, it's great for a laugh. I could still use all the same tricks I used in the classics to get past the levels with ease. Usually that's a good sign that the game is a continuation of the classics. And I adored the pre-rendered graphics, the retrofitted music, and the level motifs and gimmicks (Lost Labyrinth's torch was brilliant), but it's all a matter of opinion.

And yeah, I have my own gripes with the game. And I expect people not to like it, as should everyone else. But really, when the only reason you think it should be marked down is because it doesn't piss solid gold like the Genesis games did, you need to wake up and smell the bullshit. In fact, that's why I think this game completely and utterly destroys Mega Man 9 and 10: because it dares to take a classic formula and update it for modern times, rather than playing it safe and just using the ol' "if it ain't broke don't fix it" mantra.

So play the game for what it is and judge it on it's own merits. Then if you don't like it, it's your right to bitch 'til the cows come home. But don't knock on us for actually having a good time with it.

Yeah, I know it's overused. But this is actually the first time I've ever done it.