91 replies to this topic

[Kiberbot]

In my opinion, Adventure styled stuff should have died in agony a long time ago.

Now, don't you think that you just shown your selfishness, and the fact that you care only about what YOU want? Among fans, there are still those who enjoy the Genesis/MegaDrive and even the Unleashed/Colors styles of gameplay, and they also deserve to get what they want. Don't be so selfish, especially since you've got games with ten thousand gameplay styles and useless fodder, and probably because of the kiddy hype you'll get a sequel of this precious Sonic Adventure series.

..

How's it feel when someone can turn the tables?

Wait, what? Did I say that I want the disappearance of Retro and Unleashed, so their fans would be upset about that? If you attentively read my post you would have noticed that even if I think that these games are not good for me, I did not want them to extinction, because then this will upset other fans. So I'm not against Sonic 4. I do not want Sega to stop releasing Retro games, or Unleashed style games, just because I do not want anything bad for other fans. I say this because I believe that in addition to Retro games and games like Unleashed, Sega can release games like SA, to make all fans happy, not just the chosen lucky ones. That's all.

[Azookara]

Dude, you see how you're reacting to my post? Well, my post was an exact replica to what you said but with the subjects switched places with (and grammatical errors fixed, but that's not the point). You just came off as really really biased towards the Adventure series and mocking at the fans who are getting the games they want. That's just the way I read your post. Sorry if I got a little tense but that's just how I interpreted it.

[Discoid]

In my opinion, retro should die in agony long time ago.

But I understand that among other fans there are still those who like retro games... therefore, my wish will hurt their sonicfan lives. So I had nothing against Sonic 4. Now, do not you think that you just showed your selfishness, and the fact that you care only about what you want? Among fans, there are still those who enjoy alternative styles of gameplay, and they also deserve to get what they want. Don't be so selfish, especially since you've got games with only running gameplay, and probably you'll get sequel of this Precious Sonic Colors.

Azukara already challenged this, but there's something I want to point out here.

Look in the fucking mirror. You're the one calling me selfish? I'm selfish because I think SEGA should make Sonic games Sonic games? I'm selfish because I want to get what I pay for when I buy a Sonic game? No. Let's take another perspective, shall we?

You're selfish because you want to make others trudge through a beat-em up when they pay $50 for a Sonic game, even though they don't like beat-em ups. What's you're argument against this, huh? You like beat-em ups? Here's an idea, how about you buy God of War and whatever Sonic game you want? That way, you get to play a beat-em up and a Sonic game, and other fans get to play a Sonic game. If you get tired of playing as Sonic, just quit the game and play something else. You get to play your beat-em up, and we get to play our Sonic game. Everyone's happy.

How about you give me one example of a game I can buy if I want to play a platformer as fast as Sonic? What, can't think of anything? Exactly. If I want to play that kind of game, I have to buy a Sonic game. That's fine. What isn't fine is having to trudge through a completely different game to play the game I payed for. If you want a different genre, you have hundreds of games to choose from.

And yet, apparently, I'm the selfish one here. Interesting.

Edited by Dissident, 02 January 2011 - 07:20 PM.

[Chaos Rush]

I know this topic is mostly about SA2 and Unleashed, but I really dislike the SA2 mech-shooting and emerald hunting. In SA1, I actually liked playing as Gamma, since the controls didn't feel as sloppy. In SA1, emerald hunting didn't take ages, and the emblem missions were you have to find them under a minute were surprisingly reasonable. In SA2, they somehow made Eggman/Tails control really sloppily compared to Gamma, and they completely fucked up Emerald hunting.

As for Unleashed, I can't say much because I've only played the Wii version, and I hated everything about it. I didn't like how the Werehog controls were REALLY sloppy, and it made me want to play the daytime stages, but when I got to the daytime stages I was always disappointed with more bad controls, 1-minute stages, shitty graphics, and lame "challenges". Why the hell was Dimps even designing the day-time stages? Shouldn't have it been the other way around? The Werehog controlled sloppily. Sonic controlled like a shitty car with horrible turning. But since you guys are mostly talking about PS3/360 Unleashed, ignore this paragraph...

I'm actually getting quite tired of being able to play as only Sonic for the past few years. I do want alternate gameplay, but I don't want it to the degree that SA1, SA2, and Sonic Unleashed did. Ideally I would prefer it to be like Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Sonic Advance 1, where they were all basically the same, just with different moves leading to alternate paths. None of the gameplay sucks, as it's fun to fly around, glide and climb, and er... hit things with hammers, right?

[Discoid]

I'm actually getting quite tired of being able to play as only Sonic for the past few years. I do want alternate gameplay, but I don't want it to the degree that SA1, SA2, and Sonic Unleashed did. Ideally I would prefer it to be like Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Sonic Advance 1, where they were all basically the same, just with different moves leading to alternate paths. None of the gameplay sucks, as it's fun to fly around, glide and climb, and er... hit things with hammers, right?

By "alternate gameplay", people mean the genre roulette that the Adventure series made itself (in)famous for. From what I've seen, most people want other characters playable again, just not in the same way they were handled in the Adventure games.

[Chaos Rush]

By "alternate gameplay", people mean the genre roulette that the Adventure series made itself (in)famous for. From what I've seen, most people want other characters playable again, just not in the same way they were handled in the Adventure games.

I knew that, that's why I said:

I don't want it to the degree that SA1, SA2, and Sonic Unleashed did.

[Scar]

I think Sonic Team should just make what they dee fit, without worrying what fans want.
At the end of the day, when they do what they want to do, they come out with games like Colours. Sure it isn't perfect, but you can definately see the potential Sonic Team really have. Nobody asked for Wisps or powerups. They did it because they wanted to, and it worked. Many people just wanted a game of Unleashed Day stages. However, Sonic Team went above and beyond and actually tried improving it, instead of just wholesale copy-pasta of the gameplay mechanics and level design style; which frankly, they could have done quite easily.

I think, that at this stage, the current Sonic Team is quite capable of making their own decisions about what style to follow. Not everyone will like it, but hey, the people who don't like it don't have to buy it.

[Kiberbot]

You also should understand me. Now it's the time when Sega is releasing Sonic games which I don’t like. And I, respectively, stand for, that they would make games that will be pleasing not only to foreign groups of fans, but fans such as I myself. I don’t oppose release of games for the retro fans etc, but I just want to get something for fans of SA, so we would not feel deprived in comparison with the other fans. So I take offense when someone says that my favorite things in the franchise should be destroyed, just because these things are hateful to those fans who have already got what they wanted. I was just so sharply reacted to the post, because this guy got what he wanted, he's easy to say such things, but if he were in my place, he would be just as offended as I am.

I apologize for my grammar mistakes, English is not my native language.

Azukara already challenged this, but there's something I want to point out here.

I can say one thing. I do not mind the release of Sonic Colors 2, and the fact that you could enjoy it. I only wish that Sega would release several series in parallel, for Retro fans, for Colors fans and for SA fans. You do not worry what will happen to fans of the alternative gameplay if it disappears. So who is more selfish among us?

At the end of the day, when they do what they want to do, they come out with games like Colours.

That's not true, Colors has become what it is precisely because of feedback from press and fans.

Edited by Kvitron X, 02 January 2011 - 08:10 PM.

[Scar]

That's not true, Colors has become what it is precisely because of feedback from press and fans.

True, but like I said above, they could have literally copy-pasted Unleashed's Day stages and left it with minor additions/removals due to hardware incomptabilities; which is probably what most people predicted.
They didn't just do that though. They went above and beyond. They added a gimmick, but they made it fun and unintrusive. They made quite significant changes to the way Sonic handled at low speed, which was a huge improvement over Unleashed. The last time the properly improved anything was Sonic's gameplay from SA1 to SA2. Since then, they had made the same formula progressively worse.

You also should understand me. Now it's the time when Sega is releasing Sonic games which I don’t like. And I, respectively, stand for, that they would make games that will be pleasing not only to foreign groups of fans, but fans such as I myself. I don’t oppose release of games for the retro fans etc, but I just want to get something for fans of SA, so we would not feel deprived in comparison with the other fans. So I take offense when someone says that my favorite things in the franchise should be destroyed, just because these things are hateful to those fans who have already got what they wanted. I was just so sharply reacted to the post, because this guy got what he wanted, he's easy to say such things, but if he were in my place, he would be just as offended as I am.

This is where I have a problem. You can't expect them to make a game for you Adventure fans, simply because you haven't gotten what you wanted in a while.
Sonic Team have clearly left the era of "Sonic Adventure" behind them. In fact, I'm pretty sure most of the current Sonic Team's very first game was Sonic Unleashed.
Its only natural that they take what they started and improve upon it. Sure, you may eventually get the SA3 you desire, but it may not be the SA3 you imagined.
Besides, its not like the Adventure fans haven't been getting what they want. SA1, SA2, Heroes, Shadow and Sonic 2006 were all made in the Adventure style. So it seems the Adventure style hasn't been working out for Sonic Team, naturally they decided, maybe it would be a good idea for them to change perspective and take on the, apparently challenging concept of Sonic in 3D, from a new angle.

What they do is up in the air. If they again choose to follow and further develop what Unleashed started and Colours built upon, then that's because that is what they want to do. It is still possible to have the aternate gameplay styles. Look at Colours. Some of the power-ups behave suspiciously like Tails or Knuckles. They may have just been experimenting with the powerups, to see how characters like Tails or Knuckles might fit into a game designed using the Unleashed/Colours method.

Just wait and see. There is no telling what will happen.


We're getting WAY off-topic, so lets end it here.

[RidersDX]

SA1, SA2, Heroes, Shadow and Sonic 2006 were all made in the Adventure style.

I would argue that Heroes really changed the Adventure formula with the whole team thing, and Shadow and Sonic 2006 were no where near the best they could do with the Adventure formula. I don't blame adventure fans wanting an actual GREAT game in the Adventure style, since Colors proves that this team is going to be making good games from now on.

[Scar]

I would argue that Heroes really changed the Adventure formula with the whole team thing, and Shadow and Sonic 2006 were no where near the best they could do with the Adventure formula. I don't blame adventure fans wanting an actual GREAT game in the Adventure style, since Colors proves that this team is going to be making good games from now on.

But why would they go back? I understand some people prefer that style, but it seems Sonic Team is attempting a rebranding of the franchise. Like it or not, but the Adventure style is regarded as the reason for Sonic's downfall by the average joe, just look at the last 3 games to utilise that style. I think that SEGA and Sonic Team are trying to go as far away from those memories as possible. I'm not saying its bad by any means. It can be done well, but I think Sonic Team just wants to move away from there.

Besides, as I have mentioned the "Adventure style" is nothing more than level design. Given enough time and proper improvements to the gameplay engine, the Colours level design could evolve back to the adventure level design. The only difference is, there will be a much more reliable camera and a better gameplay engine.

[RidersDX]

But why would they go back? I understand some people prefer that style, but it seems Sonic Team is attempting a rebranding of the franchise. Like it or not, but the Adventure style is regarded as the reason for Sonic's downfall by the average joe, just look at the last 3 games to utilise that style. I think that SEGA and Sonic Team are trying to go as far away from those memories as possible. I'm not saying its bad by any means. It can be done well, but I think Sonic Team just wants to move away from there.

Besides, as I have mentioned the "Adventure style" is nothing more than level design. Given enough time and proper improvements to the gameplay engine, the Colours level design could evolve back to the adventure level design. The only difference is, there will be a much more reliable camera and a better gameplay engine.

Honestly though, some of us just have some of the best memories with the first two Adventure games. Like, it isn't impossible for Sonic Team to actually make a good game using that style. And I feel like Adventure game never got an Adventure-styled game as polished as Colors is, because let's face it, even the Adventure games has its issues.

Many Adventure fans don't agree with Sonic Team's decision to move away then, and that's why they are complaining because Adventure fans fear that that same feeling from the Adventure games is never going to happen with this new engine. You honestly cannot expect a rebranding without some people upset. That's what happened when the Adventure series came, retro fans have been crying for years for a 2D platformer like the classics.

You also forget, the Adventure series is also what brought Sonic BACK into the action, after they absolutely failed to release a proper Sonic game for the Saturn. It's sad people forget that, because Sonic 06 clouds their minds whenever the Adventure style is brought up.

Edited by RidersDX, 02 January 2011 - 11:27 PM.