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Does Shadow have natureal super sonic speed or not?


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#1 hebitaka

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 08:18 AM

Alot of sources keep telling me his shoes give him his speed, but I don't see how they need to considering how powerful his body is in doing super powerful abilites like bench pressing buses and doing spin dashes like Sonic.

Is it logical that Shadow's speed is as powerful as his biology and capabilites with his body?

So does his speed really come from his shoes or are they an extention of his already vast powers?

#2 Raxz

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 08:26 AM

He's supposed to be the goddamn Ultimate Lifeform, so the way I see it, his jet skates are just for style, or maybe at the most an extension like you said.

#3 Saint Nathan

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 08:34 AM

He's supposed to be the goddamn Ultimate Lifeform, so the way I see it, his jet skates are just for style, or maybe at the most an extension like you said.


But he's still never matched Sonic's speed.

Here's the thing about his jet skates, they're JETS. They lift him up off the ground and propel him, greatly reducing friction and giving a literal rocket boost. For him to have any natural speed, he has to take them off. We have never seen this happen.

Sonic, however, can fight friction and run faster than Shadow has been seen too, without even really trying. His shoes don't give him his speed, his body does.

Shadow has shown no signs of being really as fast as Sonic. He's super strong, but that's because he was engineered to be. I doubt Gerald Robotnik thought super speed would REALLY be useful.

There's no evidence for it, so currently, no, he is not naturally able to reach super sonic speeds.

#4 -Mark-

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 09:36 AM

^ This, basically.

We've never seen Shadow run without them (and likely never will), so all we can do is speculate around in circles with absolutely no proof.

Not to say it's a pointless discussion, but it's certainly one that can't be resolved with the current amount of information we have.

#5 Legendary Aqua

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 09:39 AM

Well, I would normally agree with the above post, buuuuuuuut

I will add the...caveat? That Shadow can use the Spin Dash. Because the Spin Dash is a rolling based move, Shadow's jet shoes wouldn't really help him or be needed there. So with that in mind, Shadow CAN reach said speeds, but only by rolling, and even then, there's the properties of rolling over time to consider.


#6 Saint Nathan

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:01 AM

Well, I would normally agree with the above post, buuuuuuuut

I will add the...caveat? That Shadow can use the Spin Dash. Because the Spin Dash is a rolling based move, Shadow's jet shoes wouldn't really help him or be needed there. So with that in mind, Shadow CAN reach said speeds, but only by rolling, and even then, there's the properties of rolling over time to consider.


I think there is a difference.

Sonic can reach full speed by RUNNING. He can reach high speeds as a ball, but in the end it's simply a quick start until he slows down, unless there is a hill to increase his speed. Shadow is exactly the same. We don't know the speed of the Spindash as it starts out, but it will slow down unless acted on by an outside force.

The spindash is more than likely not the fastest Sonic can go, even starting out. Even the BOOOOOST isn't as fast as he can go. Not to mention, if Sonic uses his feet to spin himself while in a ball, Shadow would have to do so also, which would involve his rocket shoes.

Hell, honestly (this is totally baseless but whatever) I always thought the yellow when he jumps and spins was his shoes' flames. I mean, everyone has a color effect that's their color, but Shadow dosen't have black or red, he has yellow like the flames his shoes shoot out.

I dunno, it's always seemed to me like it was his shoes the whole time.

#7 Agent York

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:06 AM

The obvious answer is that Shadow shoots goddamn fire out of his feet!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YMPAH67f4o

#8 Raxz

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:16 AM

Getting rather technical here, the only way to explain the impossible is that Speed-based Sonic characters only appear to move forward via their legs -- what they're really doing is controlling their inertia. This explains being able to change directions quickly in midair, the homing attack, and etc. So technically Shadow's shoes could be just an extension to his already relatively fast speed.

And another thing, I've noticed that Sonic characters in general all have some sort of unnatural speed and strength, to where they can carry multiple people some of them being over twice their weight, not to mention punching straight through solid metal, and easily outrunning cars. It's just the select few characters like Sonic and Knuckles that take it to extremes. It's not necessarily supersonic, but I guess you could say all non-human characters can probably run at at least 200+MPH. And before you point out how Vanilla doesn't count, she doesn't do jack shit but knit clothes and make tea -- for all we know she's simply not using her powers. :P

Also it only makes sense that Shadow never goes quite as fast as Sonic, because Sonic's simply supposed to be the fastest, always. If there's anything "fast," Sonic's always faster, it's the laws of physics. :P

Edited by Raxz, 26 March 2011 - 10:17 AM.


#9 Saint Nathan

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:31 AM

Getting rather technical here, the only way to explain the impossible is that Speed-based Sonic characters only appear to move forward via their legs -- what they're really doing is controlling their inertia. This explains being able to change directions quickly in midair, the homing attack, and etc. So technically Shadow's shoes could be just an extension to his already relatively fast speed.


We're not explaining the impossible. We're explaining the possible in Sonic's world. Which is obviously far different to the real world. Sonic does run quickly, although he does seem to be quick in every other way, to control his inertia itself would be to control physics. That dosen't even work in the real world.

The fact is, no matter what, Shadow has not displayed the ability to RUN as fast as Sonic, in any game, without some form of enhancement. Therefore, until we can see him run without his shoes, he's not as fast as Sonic.

#10 Raxz

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:35 AM

But the opening post never necessarily asked if he was as fast as Sonic, just that he can run faster than sound. Sonic can probably run several times the speed of sound, and jets as small as ones that would fit in shoes probably provide only so much of a boost, so the fact that Shadow can keep up with Sonic in them makes it seem not so unreasonable that he could still break the sound barrier without them.

Edited by Raxz, 26 March 2011 - 10:38 AM.


#11 Saint Nathan

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:51 AM

But the opening post never necessarily asked if he was as fast as Sonic, just that he can run faster than sound. Sonic can probably run several times the speed of sound, and jets as small as ones that would fit in shoes probably provide only so much of a boost, so the fact that Shadow can keep up with Sonic in them makes it seem not so unreasonable that he could still break the sound barrier without them.


Shadow has been seen FLYING using them. You know, in ShTH? When you fire a gun in midair, he'll hover there using his shoes until you stop firing. Or in the first Dark Story cutscene with him in Adventure 2.

They're strong enough to propel him into the air, they'd really increase his speed. They can obviously hold his weight in the air, skating using them is only pointing his feet in the right direction, and he's propelled forward with the same amount of force.

If you'll also notice, when he skates with them, they're on the entire time after he gets out of a jog and into a run. So he's constantly hovering, and also decreasing his friction. He's then moved by the jets alone, and like a small puck on an air hockey table, he can gain a certain speed quickly and without much force, and keeps it easily.

#12 Raxz

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:56 AM

Damn close observations, sir. I am left without argument :/

#13 Scar

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 10:57 AM

If Shadow was meant to be as fast as Sonic by natural means, then they wouldn't have needed to give him rocket-skates. I mean, they don't even look all that cool.

I think Shadow just channels a little bit of his Chaos Energy into the boots to give them power to bring him upto speed. Besides, Shadow was created using Chaos Emeralds (and Black Doom, but I'd prefer it if that was completely retconned out of the series) and so he doesn't need to be naturally fast. He can warp short distances using his own innate chaos energy, and can warp significantly longer distances using Chaos Emeralds, so in a sense, it makes up for his lack of natural speed.

#14 Saint Nathan

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 11:09 AM

He can warp short distances using his own innate chaos energy, and can warp significantly longer distances using Chaos Emeralds, so in a sense, it makes up for his lack of natural speed.


I think Sonic actually kinda figures this out a little bit, and I'm surprised I only JUST remembered it.

"Hey, it's not his speed..."

Shadow's Chaos Control seems to allow him to move far faster than usual, from the user's point of view it's free and quick movement through space, and from an outsider's point of view it looks like a warp of some kind. In the scene where he uses it in SA2, it makes him just as fast as Sonic.

So, if Shadow can use Chaos Control without a Chaos Emerald? Then yes, he can move as fast as Sonic.

Otherwise? (keep in mind, it's late, i'm tired, brain might no worky right) Sonic can see Shadow in the process of Chaos Control. His mind is quick enough to actually register Shadow's movement through space. That, combined with how Sonic and Shadow are matched in speed when Shadow uses Chaos Control, means Sonic moves and reacts as fast as a basic Chaos Control at minimum, without the ability to warp through solid objects. He's incredibly fucking fast, and Shadow needs a Chaos Emerald in order to reach those speeds.

So I would say no, no way in hell is Shadow as fast as Sonic.

#15 Jayhawker30

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 12:33 PM

Shadow's Go-kart was just as fast as Sonic's in SA2, thus proving he is just as fast as him.

#16 Omega Kuzu

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 01:16 PM

I don't see why it matters, but considering in almost every game they're equal, I'd say they're even.


Don't Sonic & Shadow's shoes pretty much do the same thing? Sonic's reduce friction so he can run longer,and Shadow's get rid of friction all together so he can skate faster, bottom line is: They both require immense leg strength.

#17 Saint Nathan

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 01:50 PM

I don't see why it matters, but considering in almost every game they're equal, I'd say they're even.


Don't Sonic & Shadow's shoes pretty much do the same thing? Sonic's reduce friction so he can run longer,and Shadow's get rid of friction all together so he can skate faster, bottom line is: They both require immense leg strength.


Whoa okay major problems here.

One, Sonic shoes do pretty much nothing. I can't remember them ever canonically being the reason Sonic could run fast, unless you're going into the comics in which case it dosen't belong here anyways.

Two, friction does not work like that (from what I understand). If Shadow were to get rid of it all together he would never move, due to not being able to push against anything and gain force from it.

Shadow's shoes are jets. Jets. Literally jet propulsion, strapped to his feet. They don't get rid of the friction, but they push him around through the air, rather than the ground. Air still has the friction needed to move him around, and because he's hovering JUST OVER the ground, he follows it like he's still on the ground, even when he's not.

Going back to my Air Hockey comparison, they do work similarly, but they also work in opposite ways.

An Air Hockey puck is lifted into the air slightly by air blowing from the table under the puck, enough to lift it slightly. It is then riding on the wind, not the table, so any movement it makes will be larger than if it was made on the table without the air. Push it once softly, and it'll keep going until it hits the edge. Turn off the air, push it again, it hardly moves.

Shadow's shoes reverse this. Instead of the ground pushing him up, he pushes himself off the ground. The way it ends up working, however, is exactly the same. Shadow can now give smaller amounts of force and go faster and farther. Ever notice how Shadow starts skating SLOWER when he gets up to speed? That's because he's reached the point where he no longer has to run and just has to push himself forward a little bit to keep going the same speed.

Before it's brought up, Sonic seems to run slower in a few games (unleashed, colors) because he's moving so fast, every time he lifts his legs he files over the ground a fair distance, but he still has to push just as hard if not harder with every step in order to keep his momentum steady. He can rest his legs slightly before making another push, which might be why he can keep going for so long.

Shadow always has one foot on the ground to keep sliding (he's not even running, he's sliding along the ground) and pushes with his other at a fairly slow pace for the speeds he moves at, because that's all he needs to do.

#18 Indigo Rush

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 01:56 PM

Galaxy Man, you shall be seated on the right side of my chair when we rule the forums one day. You are so... correct.

#19 Omega Kuzu

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:01 PM

Whoa okay major problems here.

One, Sonic shoes do pretty much nothing. I can't remember them ever canonically being the reason Sonic could run fast, unless you're going into the comics in which case it dosen't belong here anyways.


THere was a comic(A non archie one) that said that.

Two, friction does not work like that (from what I understand). If Shadow were to get rid of it all together he would never move, due to not being able to push against anything and gain force from it.


Not really, having no friction just means the surface you're on would essentially be Ice, you would just slide. In Shadow's case, like you said he would just move slightly and he would go flying.

Shadow's shoes are jets. Jets. Literally jet propulsion, strapped to his feet. They don't get rid of the friction, but they push him around through the air, rather than the ground. Air still has the friction needed to move him around, and because he's hovering JUST OVER the ground, he follows it like he's still on the ground, even when he's not.


IF that was the case, Shadow would be able to fly then.



Shadow's shoes reverse this. Instead of the ground pushing him up, he pushes himself off the ground. The way it ends up working, however, is exactly the same. Shadow can now give smaller amounts of force and go faster and farther. Ever notice how Shadow starts skating SLOWER when he gets up to speed? That's because he's reached the point where he no longer has to run and just has to push himself forward a little bit to keep going the same speed.


Well in SA2, the faster you went, the more he started to skate like a maniac.


Before it's brought up, Sonic seems to run slower in a few games (unleashed, colors) because he's moving so fast, every time he lifts his legs he files over the ground a fair distance, but he still has to push just as hard if not harder with every step in order to keep his momentum steady. He can rest his legs slightly before making another push, which might be why he can keep going for so long.


Its really more Sonic, giving more strides in his running. He's constantly putting one foot in front of another gaining more speed, its based more on how running really works.


Shadow always has one foot on the ground to keep sliding (he's not even running, he's sliding along the ground) and pushes with his other at a fairly slow pace for the speeds he moves at, because that's all he needs to do.



Well unless Shadow's shoes already propel him past the speed of sound, he would still require LOTS of Leg strength to propel at such speeds.

#20 Indigo Rush

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 02:06 PM

There's no denying that leg strength plays a part here, but really dude... the jet shoes do about 90% of the work here.




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