Sonic storylines

[DC111]

NOTE: Topic renamed. Started off as Sonic 2006's story.

We need some more discussion topics around here lately anyway.

So a few hours ago I found myself watching Sonic 2006's story on Youtube (I do have the game but didn't want to wait for all the LOADING TIMES). And I noticed a several things that I completely missed the first time around.

-Remember how the Egg Carrier exploded, and Elise and Eggman died? I know that got reversed since Sonic went back in time to change Elise's fate. But that still leaves a plot hole: how did EGGMAN survive? He obviously lived because we saw him again in the final story. Elise was accounted for because Sonic saved her. But the ship still exploded. Should Eggman not have survived, or am I missing something?

-A lot of people think of Elise as selfish for saying "I don't care about the world!" at the end of the game, because she doesn't want her encounter with Sonic to not exist. This is another thing I don't understand, because she spent her WHOLE LIFE being selfless, holding back tears, protecting what lied dormant in her... not to mention, when Eggman threatened to level Soleanna to ashes if she didn't surrender herself, she had no hesitation in doing so to protect her people. Given all of that, I don't see her as selfish. I think "I don't care what happens to the world" was just the agony of the moment, of knowing she had to let Sonic go. It was just a very human, impulsive moment.

-For that matter, did Sonic and Elise truly forget their encounter? The last cutscene seems to suggest otherwise. We can assume that during the FIRST path of time, shown at the beginning of the game, Sonic probably KNEW Eggman was in Soleanna or perhaps even followed him there. But during the OTHER path of time, after they made it so Solaris never existed... what led Sonic to Soleanna, if not the memory of his adventure with Elise? He runs by, the wind causing a feather to blow away from her outfit, and he watches it drift away with a smile on his face. That cutscene wasn't just there to provide a 'happy ending,' I think it actually meant something. Even if the events 'never happened,' it doesn't necessarily mean the characters' memories of these events were erased. To further back this up, there's something that foreshadows this. Take a look back at the two's conversation by the lake. Elise asks Sonic to "remember this place," and Sonic replies, "Definitely."

-I've heard a lot of statements in general that Sonic 2006 has a bad story. Aside from the plotholes (notably the Blaze plothole, along with the infinite-loop Chaos Emerald)... is the general consensus still that the story was poorly done? I find myself loving Sonic 2006's story, despite the plotholes. It has an intense and epic feel about it, and the characters have a great deal of substance. I feel it shows Sonic's forward-focused attitude a great deal more than in the other games, like when he encourages Elise to blow out the flame and never looks hesitant or reluctant, despite how much it'll change things. Plus we get a little more insight to him, like why he runs (taking Elise's hand and running with her in the field to try and get her to stop worrying), and why he never stays in one place for long ("Have you seen many beautiful places before?" "Yeah." "When you defeat Eggman... you'll leave, won't you?" *Sonic nods).

Shadow gets a great deal of character development as well. In fact, I dare say I think Shadow's story in 2006 is what SHOULD have been after Sonic Adventure 2, rather than Shadow the Hedghog. He really moves on from his past, and comes into himself as a character ("If the world chooses to become my enemy... I will fight like I always have."), doing as he wants instead of being indecisive and bitter.

As far as Silver... he's a character with a good heart manipulated by a bad person (Mephiles). He starts off with determination to kill Sonic, but after meeting him, wonders if it's even justified to kill someone for any reason. He is willing to admit his mistakes and question wrong and right, which makes him come off as naive or childish sometimes, but I think it makes him that much more valuable and human.

So - what are your thoughts? Any other plotholes in this story that I didn't catch? Opinions on the execution of the plot? Opinions on the characters? Discuss here.

Edited May 18, 2011 by DC111

[MobileChikane]

-Remember how the Egg Carrier exploded, and Elise and Eggman died? I know that got reversed since Sonic went back in time to change Elise's fate. But that still leaves a plot hole: how did EGGMAN survive? He obviously lived because we saw him again in the final story. Elise was accounted for because Sonic saved her. But the ship still exploded. Should Eggman not have survived, or am I missing something?

-For that matter, did Sonic and Elise truly forget their encounter? The last cutscene seems to suggest otherwise. We can assume that during the FIRST path of time, shown at the beginning of the game, Sonic probably KNEW Eggman was in Soleanna or perhaps even followed him there. But during the OTHER path of time, after they made it so Solaris never existed... what led Sonic to Soleanna, if not the memory of his adventure with Elise? He runs by, the wind causing a feather to blow away from her outfit, and he watches it drift away with a smile on his face. That cutscene wasn't just there to provide a 'happy ending,' I think it actually meant something. Even if the events 'never happened,' it doesn't necessarily mean the characters' memories of these events were erased. To further back this up, there's something that foreshadows this. Take a look back at the two's conversation by the lake. Elise asks Sonic to "remember this place," and Sonic replies, "Definitely." So - what are your thoughts? Any other plotholes in this story that I didn't catch? Opinions on the execution of the plot? Opinions on the characters? Discuss here.

Eggman can be seen ejecting from his machine after Sonic defeats him. (Quite comically too.)

-----

I just go with the magic. That Sonic remembered the events that that took place and the promise he made. (Although no-one else remembers.)

Edited May 14, 2011 by MobileChikane

[Diogenes]

-Remember how the Egg Carrier exploded, and Elise and Eggman died? I know that got reversed since Sonic went back in time to change Elise's fate. But that still leaves a plot hole: how did EGGMAN survive? He obviously lived because we saw him again in the final story. Elise was accounted for because Sonic saved her. But the ship still exploded. Should Eggman not have survived, or am I missing something?

He's Eggman. He's the Wily to Sonic's Mega Man, the Bowser to his Mario. The villain always gets away.

-A lot of people think of Elise as selfish for saying "I don't care about the world!" at the end of the game, because she doesn't want her encounter with Sonic to not exist. This is another thing I don't understand, because she spent her WHOLE LIFE being selfless, holding back tears, protecting what lied dormant in her... not to mention, when Eggman threatened to level Soleanna to ashes if she didn't surrender herself, she had no hesitation in doing so to protect her people. Given all of that, I don't see her as selfish. I think "I don't care what happens to the world" was just the agony of the moment, of knowing she had to let Sonic go. It was just a very human, impulsive moment.

Yeah, selfish. Even if she's got plenty reason to be frustrated, it's still a selfish decision...though a more understandable one.

But during the OTHER path of time, after they made it so Solaris never existed... what led Sonic to Soleanna, if not the memory of his adventure with Elise?

"Hey, cool festival!" Honestly that's all the justification he needs to be there in either timeline.

Even if the events 'never happened,' it doesn't necessarily mean the characters' memories of these events were erased.

Actually, it kind of does, unless we're going to invoke something (call it a "soul", if you want) that can exist outside the effects of time and also preserve memories in some form. Realistically, time travel can't just "erase memories"; what it does is make it so the events those memories are based on never happened. The Sonic and Elise we see in Solaris Festival Take 2 don't just not remember the events of the game; they never actually experienced it in the first place, so they couldn't possibly have formed memories of it. As for Elise finding the wind familiar, it's just schlocky "love conquers all" junk getting in the way of logic.

-I've heard a lot of statements in general that Sonic 2006 has a bad story. Aside from the plotholes (notably the Blaze plothole, along with the infinite-loop Chaos Emerald)... is the general consensus still that the story was poorly done?

Hahaha, yes, god yes. It's garbage from start to finish. Only good moment in the story is at the start of Sonic's story, where he knocks over that one robot by tapping it with his foot. Everything else? Send it to the incinerator, then burn the ashes.

[Vertekins]

We need some more discussion topics around here lately anyway.

So a few hours ago I found myself watching Sonic 2006's story on Youtube (I do have the game but didn't want to wait for all the LOADING TIMES). And I noticed a several things that I completely missed the first time around.

-Remember how the Egg Carrier exploded, and Elise and Eggman died? I know that got reversed since Sonic went back in time to change Elise's fate. But that still leaves a plot hole: how did EGGMAN survive? He obviously lived because we saw him again in the final story. Elise was accounted for because Sonic saved her. But the ship still exploded. Should Eggman not have survived, or am I missing something?

Eggman escapes by piloting the Egg Wyvern but he ejects when the Wyvern is destroyed. He apparently falls through the sky still sat in his chair. God knows where he ends up but he gets thrown into the Time-Space rift anyway when Solaris forms itself.

-A lot of people think of Elise as selfish for saying "I don't care about the world!" at the end of the game, because she doesn't want her encounter with Sonic to not exist. This is another thing I don't understand, because she spent her WHOLE LIFE being selfless, holding back tears, protecting what lied dormant in her... not to mention, when Eggman threatened to level Soleanna to ashes if she didn't surrender herself, she had no hesitation in doing so to protect her people. Given all of that, I don't see her as selfish. I think "I don't care what happens to the world" was just the agony of the moment, of knowing she had to let Sonic go. It was just a very human, impulsive moment.

I think it was more of a case of short sightedness rather than selfishness for Elise to say that. She knows what must be sacrificed. But that doesn't make it any easier. This young woman spent 10 years being selfless for the sake of the world and when she finally comes across someone who accepts her for who she is rather than for what she is, it's especially painful to let go.

You could say pretty much the same thing for Tails in episode 77 of Sonic X; He knows what must be done, but him being the trigger and actually doing it is truly agonising, leading them to act the way they did.

-For that matter, did Sonic and Elise truly forget their encounter? The last cutscene seems to suggest otherwise. We can assume that during the FIRST path of time, shown at the beginning of the game, Sonic probably KNEW Eggman was in Soleanna or perhaps even followed him there. But during the OTHER path of time, after they made it so Solaris never existed... what led Sonic to Soleanna, if not the memory of his adventure with Elise? He runs by, the wind causing a feather to blow away from her outfit, and he watches it drift away with a smile on his face. That cutscene wasn't just there to provide a 'happy ending,' I think it actually meant something. Even if the events 'never happened,' it doesn't necessarily mean the characters' memories of these events were erased. To further back this up, there's something that foreshadows this. Take a look back at the two's conversation by the lake. Elise asks Sonic to "remember this place," and Sonic replies, "Definitely."

I always thought that it was a case of Deja vu, like both Sonic and Elise just feel that they're very familiar with each other. But my guess is as good as yours. WHY there's a supposed feeling of Deja Vu is extremely ambiguous.

-I've heard a lot of statements in general that Sonic 2006 has a bad story. Aside from the plotholes (notably the Blaze plothole, along with the infinite-loop Chaos Emerald)... is the general consensus still that the story was poorly done? I find myself loving Sonic 2006's story, despite the plotholes. It has an intense and epic feel about it, and the characters have a great deal of substance. I feel it shows Sonic's forward-focused attitude a great deal more than in the other games, like when he encourages Elise to blow out the flame and never looks hesitant or reluctant, despite how much it'll change things. Plus we get a little more insight to him, like why he runs (taking Elise's hand and running with her in the field to try and get her to stop worrying), and why he never stays in one place for long ("Have you seen many beautiful places before?" "Yeah." "When you defeat Eggman... you'll leave, won't you?" *Sonic nods).

I thought that for a moment, Sonic's expression when Elise shows him the flame and announces that if it is put out, they will never meet, Sonic's face is full of pain and realisation. Just look at the way his mouth becomes slightly agape and his eyes get a look of what can only be interpreted as sadness and/or disappointment. Nevertheless, being the stoic one, Sonic accepts what must be done without much emotion. It's just so Sonic.

Shadow gets a great deal of character development as well. In fact, I dare say I think Shadow's story in 2006 is what SHOULD have been after Sonic Adventure 2, rather than Shadow the Hedghog. He really moves on from his past, and comes into himself as a character ("If the world chooses to become my enemy... I will fight like I always have."), doing as he wants instead of being indecisive and bitter.

I personally was a bit pissed that it was Shadow who got the most influential role in the game when the game is called 'SONIC THE HEDGEHOG". It is he as well as Silver who deal with the real, most influential villains whilst Snic plays a pointless game of cat and mouse because he can't help but put Elise down and take his eyes off of her for more than 20 seconds but I will not deny that Shadow got some crazy awesome moments regarding his characterization and it's development.

As far as Silver... he's a character with a good heart manipulated by a bad person (Mephiles). He starts off with determination to kill Sonic, but after meeting him, wonders if it's even justified to kill someone for any reason. He is willing to admit his mistakes and question wrong and right, which makes him come off as naive or childish sometimes, but I think it makes him that much more valuable and human.

I admit that this game is what made me fall in love with Silver's character because I have had very little aquaintance with the Rivals games. He's gullible but then he's young and his sheer determination makes him blockheaded but then even through that, he has dimension because he has ethics and he questions his actions. But he is still conflicted, even towards the end of his story.

[Kamicciolo]

-Remember how the Egg Carrier exploded, and Elise and Eggman died? I know that got reversed since Sonic went back in time to change Elise's fate. But that still leaves a plot hole: how did EGGMAN survive? He obviously lived because we saw him again in the final story. Elise was accounted for because Sonic saved her. But the ship still exploded. Should Eggman not have survived, or am I missing something?

What exactly indicated that Eggman had died in the crash? If I recall right then the only one that any had records (found in Silver's future) of dieing at that point was Elise, and by now it should be assumed that Eggman will easily escape those sort of explosions anyway, considering the number of times he's done it in the past and the amount of practice he should have at it.

-A lot of people think of Elise as selfish for saying "I don't care about the world!" at the end of the game, because she doesn't want her encounter with Sonic to not exist. This is another thing I don't understand, because she spent her WHOLE LIFE being selfless, holding back tears, protecting what lied dormant in her... not to mention, when Eggman threatened to level Soleanna to ashes if she didn't surrender herself, she had no hesitation in doing so to protect her people. Given all of that, I don't see her as selfish. I think "I don't care what happens to the world" was just the agony of the moment, of knowing she had to let Sonic go. It was just a very human, impulsive moment.

I've personally never given that scene much thought, but I can see both sides of that arguement. At the end of it all she is actually being kinda selfish, since she's putting her own happiness above that of the entire universe's, but as you said she's essentially breaking down at thought of losing the one person who made her happy til that point. Kinda moot anyway since without Solaris/Iblis in the picture she technically doesn't have to suffer through most of that stuff, thus makes out as a winner

[pppp]

1. Good find.Another plot-hole to add to the mix.

2.I guess you've got a point there,but it doesn't change the fact that she's part of Shun Nakamura's evil plan to reduce Sonic's character to a lifeless shell that only knows to say "Elise!"

3.Even if you were right,Sega decided to lock the game in a vault(as RubyEclipse said) so that will never be acknowledged.

4.Sonic's attitude? it's completely gone.All he does in the game as a character is listen quietly to Elise's ramblings.Also the game's shock death in the Last Story destroyed Sonic's awesomeness.Sonic's line in SA2 "I die hard" was completely forgotten for cheap dramatic effect.Oh and don't forget the most disgusting kiss in a videogame.Reducing Sonic to a "Sleeping Beauty" status is stupid and revolting.Shadow's Story is basically them milking his backstory even more(He should have stayed dead) and Silver's Story is a shameless ripoff of Future Trunks from DBZ.

Edited May 14, 2011 by pppp

[sonfan1984]

4.Sonic's attitude? it's completely gone.All he does in the game as a character is listen quietly to Elise's ramblings.

Well, it's not gone completely. The only time in the game where he ever shows it was in the beginning when he tapped the robot over with his foot like Diogenes said. But other then that he was pretty dull. :\

[pppp]

Well, it's not gone completely. The only time in the game where he ever shows it was in the beginning when he tapped the robot over with his foot like Diogenes said. But other then that he was pretty dull. :\

exactly.

[Kamicciolo]

4.Sonic's attitude? it's completely gone.All he does in the game as a character is listen quietly to Elise's ramblings.Also the game's shock death in the Last Story destroyed Sonic's awesomeness.Sonic's line in SA2 "I die hard" was completely forgotten for cheap dramatic effect.Oh and don't forget the most disgusting kiss in a videogame.Reducing Sonic to a "Sleeping Beauty" status is stupid and revolting.Shadow's Story is basically them milking his backstory even more(He should have stayed dead) and Silver's Story is a shameless ripoff of Future Trunks from DBZ.

At what point exactly does Shadow's backstory even get a single mention in '06? And I'd be more inclinded to take the complaint about Silver's story ripping-off Dragonball seriously if Future Trunks (and the Cell Saga in general) hadn't similarly been influenced from The Terminator.

[Diogenes]

At what point exactly does Shadow's backstory even get a single mention in '06?

I think it's the whole "I'm an artificial living weapon and people fear me woe is me" thing.

And I'd be more inclinded to take the complaint about Silver's story ripping-off Dragonball seriously if Future Trunks (and the Cell Saga in general) hadn't similarly been influenced from The Terminator.

Ripping off a ripoff doesn't make things any better.

[pppp]

At what point exactly does Shadow's backstory even get a single mention in '06? And I'd be more inclinded to take the complaint about Silver's story ripping-off Dragonball seriously if Future Trunks (and the Cell Saga in general) hadn't similarly been influenced from The Terminator.

Well,maybe,but that's how i saw it.Silver even has silver hair just like Trunks.

I think it's the whole "I'm an artificial living weapon and people fear me woe is me" thing.

This.

Edited May 14, 2011 by pppp

[CanofEpicSauce]

Sonic 06 had plot holes that would make black holes blush, dude

[Chooch]

Silver even has silver hair just like Trunks.

Trunks has fucking bright pink hair.

What??

Edited May 14, 2011 by Chooch

[DC111]

So indeed, I was missing something. Didn't catch the part where he escapes in the Wyvern. Glad to see that's not another plothole.

2.I guess you've got a point there,but it doesn't change the fact that she's part of Shun Nakamura's evil plan to reduce Sonic's character to a lifeless shell that only knows to say "Elise!"

3.Even if you were right,Sega decided to lock the game in a vault(as RubyEclipse said) so that will never be acknowledged.

4.Sonic's attitude? it's completely gone.All he does in the game as a character is listen quietly to Elise's ramblings.Also the game's shock death in the Last Story destroyed Sonic's awesomeness.Sonic's line in SA2 "I die hard" was completely forgotten for cheap dramatic effect.Oh and don't forget the most disgusting kiss in a videogame.Reducing Sonic to a "Sleeping Beauty" status is stupid and revolting.Shadow's Story is basically them milking his backstory even more(He should have stayed dead) and Silver's Story is a shameless ripoff of Future Trunks from DBZ.

Listening quietly makes Sonic a lifeless shell? No, his attitude is not gone. It's just that the CIRCUMSTANCES at the time would have made it somewhat inappropriate to express the cocky attitude he usually has. Oh, and Sonic didn't die. Elise says out loud, "I don't think he's dead yet!" People act as though he was brought back to life, but he was never dead at all. He dies hard.

And even if I'm wrong, Sonic's not immortal here. You seem to want him to be because of a quote he made in Sonic Adventure 2, but honestly, having him be THAT indestructible would take away even MORE from him as a character.

Edited May 14, 2011 by DC111

[Diogenes]

Listening quietly makes Sonic a lifeless shell? No, his attitude is not gone. It's just that the CIRCUMSTANCES at the time would have made it somewhat inappropriate to express the cocky attitude he usually has.

Then the game shouldn't have been written so he spends 95% of it as a polite listener.

Oh, and Sonic didn't die. Elise says out loud, "I don't think he's dead yet!" People act as though he was brought back to life, but he was never dead at all. He dies hard.

Buuuuull. He got laserstabbed and his spirit was in the wind or some such shit.

And even if I'm wrong, Sonic's not immortal here. You seem to want him to be because of a quote he made in Sonic Adventure 2, but honestly, having him be THAT indestructible would take away even MORE from him as a character.

My problem with it is more that he got killed like a wuss, than him getting killed at all. I mean the entire sequence of events is, he gets blinded by a light, and stabbed in the back. This is how a hero dies (or "dies", if you insist)?

[pppp]

So indeed, I was missing something. Didn't catch the part where he escapes in the Wyvern. Glad to see that's not another plothole.

Listening quietly makes Sonic a lifeless shell? No, his attitude is not gone. It's just that the CIRCUMSTANCES at the time would have made it somewhat inappropriate to express the cocky attitude he usually has. Oh, and Sonic didn't die. Elise says out loud, "I don't think he's dead yet!" People act as though he was brought back to life, but he was never dead at all. He dies hard.

And even if I'm wrong, Sonic's not immortal here. You seem to want him to be because of a quote he made in Sonic Adventure 2, but honestly, having him be THAT indestructible would take away even MORE from him as a character.

So you actually fell for their cheesy excuse "i feel his presence in the wind"? Okay

Also,I never said he should be immortal.I just think that a character as awesome as Sonic should die like a badass.He should've died in a fight to the death to protect Elise or something.

My problem with it is more that he got killed like a wuss, than him getting killed at all. I mean the entire sequence of events is, he gets blinded by a light, and stabbed in the back. This is how a hero dies (or "dies", if you insist)?

You're awesome Diogenes

Edited May 14, 2011 by pppp

[Kamicciolo]

I think it's the whole "I'm an artificial living weapon and people fear me woe is me" thing.

That isn't automatically refering to his backstory though. Him being an artifical life-form and stuff is pretty much just his general being, like how Big's a feline fisherman or Knuckles is an echidna and the guardian of the Master Emerald. Also wasn't the people fearing him actually a development that took place in that game, or was that intended to have some relation to when he had previously been held in status by G.U.N.?

[DC111]

I always thought that it was a case of Deja vu, like both Sonic and Elise just feel that they're very familiar with each other. But my guess is as good as yours. WHY there's a supposed feeling of Deja Vu is extremely ambiguous.

Maybe, but everything that happened in that scene seemed a little too conspicuous. I guess nobody can truly know, but if you ask me, they either remember it or they don't. All things considering, though, I guess it doesn't matter much now.

I personally was a bit pissed that it was Shadow who got the most influential role in the game when the game is called 'SONIC THE HEDGEHOG". It is he as well as Silver who deal with the real, most influential villains whilst Snic plays a pointless game of cat and mouse because he can't help but put Elise down and take his eyes off of her for more than 20 seconds but I will not deny that Shadow got some crazy awesome moments regarding his characterization and it's development.

I think Shadow needed a substantial role, but it is a shame that Sonic's story was so simple as a result. Without everything that happened with Mephiles, Shadow wouldn't have reached a lot of the conclusions he reached, and gotten most of that character development. But it would have been nice if they could have executed it without taking away from so many things that could have been in Sonic's story. I've got no problem with Shadow playing a big role... only that it's at the expense of other characters.

So you actually fell for their cheesy excuse "i feel his presence in the wind"? Okay

Also,I never said he should be immortal.I just think that a character as awesome as Sonic should die like a badass.He should've died in a fight to the death to protect Elise or something.

That is not what I quoted. Don't put words in my mouth. Elise clearly said "I don't think he's dead yet," implying that he's - gasp - not dead. I agree that Sonic should die like a badass, but hey, what can you do when your enemy acts before you even get a chance to see him? It's not my favorite scene either, but it is what it is.

[Eternal EX]

Hahaha, yes, god yes. It's garbage from start to finish. Only good moment in the story is at the start of Sonic's story, where he knocks over that one robot by tapping it with his foot. Everything else? Send it to the incinerator, then burn the ashes.

Wait you forgot the scene where Shadow kicks the shit out of silver. GOLDEN! Wait that was shadow's story. NEVERMIND.

Well,maybe,but that's how i saw it.Silver even has silver hair just like Trunks.

You lost your ability to post. TRUNKS=Purple or a weird pink shade of hair. Silver=Silver spines HENSE HIS NAME.

Edited May 14, 2011 by Eternal Awesomeness

[Diogenes]

That isn't automatically refering to his backstory though. Him being an artifical life-form and stuff is pretty much just his general being, like how Big's a feline fisherman or Knuckles is an echidna and the guardian of the Master Emerald.

I disagree. Big being a fisherman isn't backstory-related because it's something he chooses to do in the present, and that's as far as it goes. But anything dealing with Knuckles regarding echidnas or guarding the emerald is tied to his backstory, as well as to his present. And it's especially blatant with Shadow since his game ended with him supposedly moving on, yet he's still dealing with old baggage.

Also wasn't the people fearing him actually a development that took place in that game, or was that intended to have some relation to when he had previously been held in status by G.U.N.?

Both, I'd say. It's been an element in most of his major appearances; in SA2, his creation was part of what led to the raid on the ARK (and thus Maria's death) and his imprisonment on Prison Island. His role in Battle was pretty much all dispassionate angst about him and Emerl being living weapons. I'm pretty sure ShtH touched on it in some of the evil routes, though I can't remember specifics. And '06 talks about how he'll eventually be imprisoned again.

I agree that Sonic should die like a badass, but hey, what can you do when your enemy acts before you even get a chance to see him? It's not my favorite scene either, but it is what it is.

And "what it is" is stupid. This is a work of fiction, the writers could've come up with hundreds of valid situations for this scene, but they chose one that sucks. "It is what it is" doesn't justify shitty writing because the writers choose what happens.

[Eternal EX]

And '06 talks about how he'll eventually be imprisoned again.

I actually forgot about this scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iQQoxWFcrM&feature=related

Actually how would this scene even take place if shadow heads to the future? WOuldn't that mean he is no longer in the time period where all the chaos happens?

Edited May 14, 2011 by Eternal Awesomeness

[Diogenes]

He's fated to go back to the present and eventually get captured.

[Eternal EX]

Okay but how would he be able to see himself even though going back in time to get captured has not happened yet? Sounds like more poor writing and a plothole.

[pppp]

You lost your ability to post. TRUNKS=Purple or a weird pink shade of hair. Silver=Silver spines HENSE HIS NAME.

Fine,i said something wrong,you don't have to be mean i don't know it just kinda looks silver to me,sorry

[Eternal EX]

Fine,i said something wrong,you don't have to be mean i don't know it just kinda looks silver to me,sorry

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mN8hpajWOk

Looks purple to me. Does anyone else agree?