5609 replies to this topic

[Remz]

It's supposed to generate interest in series for new audiences, just like Smash Bros. Smash Bros did that with series like Kid Icarus and it worked despite having completely different gameplay. It's just an introduction.

Melee also similarly was probably the reason for the resurgence of Fire Emblem in the west, alongside with SSB in general building a whole bunch of buzz for Mother/Earthbound that Nintendo never capitalised on

[Shirou Emiya]

I've been hearing nothing but good things about NintendoLand from people who have actually played it, and one article praised it as one of the few games in recent years to truly embrace and bring back the fun of local multiplayer, which has been sorely lacking this gen in favor of online.

NintendoLand in general is quite frankly a brilliant idea for generating interest in more 'hardcore' Nintendo franchises...

... Ugh, I'm really starting to loathe saying 'hardcore' and 'casual'. They're really stupid labels, IMO.

[Nintendoga]

I love how people act like we constantly get new NSMB games. Ignoring the two coming soon, it's been 3 years since the last NSMB and 2D Mario game. In that time we got 2 3D titles.

I could care less if it came out every year, if they put innovation and several differences and originality towards each title, besides one or two main differences "Oh it's NSMB, but with Co-op!" "Oh it's NSMB but with a coin gimmick!" "Oh it's NSMB, but in HD and slightly better graphics."

No changes to the gameplay, style, formula, or level tropes.

But I'm getting off topix

It's supposed to generate interest in series for new audiences, just like Smash Bros. Smash Bros did that with series like Kid Icarus and it worked despite having completely different gameplay. It's just an introduction.

But like Smash Bros, who's to say this will effectively boost franchise sales? What if Casuals don't like how Zelda games play but like the minigame? Same with the others. And I'm pretty sure PC/PS3 gamers aren't going to trade in their consoles to get a taste of Nintendurlend!

They brought back Kid Icarus because of his popularity, but what franchise is "gone" in NintendoLand? Starfox and F-Zero are the only ones really, and fans are already begging for a new game.

... Ugh, I'm really starting to loathe saying 'hardcore' and 'casual'. They're really stupid labels, IMO.

I agree, but is there another way we can refer to them?

Edited by Nintendoga, 25 June 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[Remz]

But like Smash Bros, who's to say this will effectively boost franchise sales? What if Casuals don't like how Zelda games play but like the minigame? Same with the others. And I'm pretty sure PC/PS3 gamers aren't going to trade in their consoles to get a taste of Nintendurlend!

They brought back Kid Icarus because of his popularity, but what franchise is "gone" in NintendoLand? Starfox and F-Zero are the only ones really, and fans are already begging for a new game.

I doubt anyone is going to petty enough to take issue with the Zelda gameplay, which is relatively inoffensive and fairly entertaining if they liked the characters enough in Nintendoland to buy a Zelda game in the first place. Regardless once they buy it it counts as a sale whether they like it or not

The 360/PC/PS3 market isn't what they're targeting with this either, I think their goal is to convert those that would normally buy a Wii for Wii Fit or maybe Mario into playing other Nintendo games as well, and if you look at it that way it's actually a pretty good idea. (the game is a nostalgia trip/nintendo love letter as well i guess)

... Ugh, I'm really starting to loathe saying 'hardcore' and 'casual'. They're really stupid labels, IMO.

Core is a marginally better label then hardcore but they still mostly suck. oh wellll not much we can do about it when we need to talk about stuff this way

[Shirou Emiya]

I could care less if it came out every year, if they put innovation and several differences and originality towards each title, besides one or two main differences "Oh it's NSMB, but with Co-op!" "Oh it's NSMB but with a coin gimmick!" "Oh it's NSMB, but in HD and slightly better graphics."

No changes to the gameplay, style, formula, or level tropes.

Hang on, I swear there was a trope for this, lemme check... Oh, yeah, here it is. Many, many games can be lumped into the same category as the NSMB games. And yet, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, it's practically Mega Man's bread and butter, for the most part. Hell, many people would actually prefer that devs would stick to what works without changing things dramatically.

Also, I see the words "no new level tropes", and raise you the Van Goh-inspired level in NSMBU.

[Nintendoga]

Hang on, I swear there was a trope for this, lemme check... Oh, yeah, here it is. Many, many games can be lumped into the same category as the NSMB games. And yet, this is not necessarily a bad thing. Hell, it's practically Mega Man's bread and butter, for the most part. Hell, many people would actually prefer that devs would stick to what works without changing things dramatically.

I'm just not one of those people. I prefer to see new tropes and designs every sequel/new iteration.

Also, I see the words "no new level tropes", and raise you the Van Goh-inspired level in NSMBU.

I see your Van Goh-inspired level and raise you the majority of NSMB2.

Edited by Nintendoga, 25 June 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[Remz]

I see your Van Goh-inspired level and raise you the majority of NSMB2.

You can't judge NSMB:U by NSMB 2. That's like saying Sonic 3 is unimaginative because Aquatic Ruin is kinda boring. Or something

I'm drawing straws for examples but I hope the point got across

[Nintendoga]

You can't judge NSMB:U by NSMB 2. That's like saying Sonic 3 is unimaginative because Aquatic Ruin is kinda boring. Or something

I'm drawing straws for examples but I hope the point got across

More like judging the series, but at least they're doing something difference (graphically) with NSMBU

and Aquatic Ruin is boring

[Dreamy Luigi]

More like judging the series, but at least they're doing something difference (graphically) with NSMBU

and Aquatic Ruin is boring

I take it that you haven't seen the ruins level and ice level background design for NSMB2 yet haven't you.

[Nintendoga]

I have
Sorry for not being impressed

[Scar]

I don't really care how pretty the new backgrounds in NSMB2 are.
I really could not give a shit, the problem is as MD described "expansion pack sequels".

See, CoD and other shooters are getting railed into oblivion for releasing sequels that are basically the same mechanically to their predecessors and are no better than overly expensive DLC that comes in a disk.

Yet, when signs point to Nintendo going down that road with the NSMBx franchise, it gets away more or less scott free, or at least has defenders in their droves who are instantly captivated by Nostalgia and start pissing themselves when they show that some powerup (e.g Racoon Tail thing) from 20 years ago is getting a reprieve.

[Dreamy Luigi]

I don't really care how pretty the new backgrounds in NSMB2 are.
I really could not give a shit, the problem is as MD described "expansion pack sequels".

See, CoD and other shooters are getting railed into oblivion for releasing sequels that are basically the same mechanically to their predecessors and are no better than overly expensive DLC that comes in a disk.

Yet, when signs point to Nintendo going down that road with the NSMBx franchise, it gets away more or less scott free, or at least has defenders in their droves who are instantly captivated by Nostalgia and start pissing themselves when they show that some powerup (e.g Racoon Tail thing) from 20 years ago is getting a reprieve.

Then just ignore it. It fine if you want better for the series but all in all complaining about it isn't going to change it at all. Most of the things I've read about NSMBU is that its the Wii version in HD. And most of all Nintendo doesn't care cuz those games will still attract money be it for what you said nostalgia or the face that kids love it.

[Carbo]

Yet, when signs point to Nintendo going down that road with the NSMBx franchise, it gets away more or less scott free, or at least has defenders in their droves who are instantly captivated by Nostalgia and start pissing themselves when they show that some powerup (e.g Racoon Tail thing) from 20 years ago is getting a reprieve.

Are you implying CoD doesn't get away with releasing mission pack sequels and people defending it?

Because over a million sales with successful advertising campaigns and an ever-expanding player-base above the millions completely destroys this strawman of yours.

[Tornado]

What memo did I miss that suddenly allowed everyone to go back to acting as if the NSMB games are anything but quicky nostalgia cash-in games whose only defining quality is how middlingly competent they are? Is it just because Nintendo didn't really have anything else to show that they are suddenly supposed to be relevant to someone who wants a real Mario game (in essence, a take it or leave it argument)?


Yeah, Nintendo hasn't made one in a few years now. No, they barely put any effort into that one either, so how exactly does the long period between titles change Nintendoga's original point? If I want something as imaginative and lovingly crafted as Yoshi's Island or SMB3 built to take advantage of the Wii U's capabilities (that Nintendo has gone so far out of their way to make note of), how does getting NSMBW Except-Now-It's-In-HD help satiate that?

Edited by Tornado, 25 June 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[Gabz Girl]

I agree with some of what Reggie says, and I understand that NintendoLand is supposed to introduce "casuals" to other Nintendo franchises.

But with Mario...I played the very first NSMB on DS, and I liked it. Not brilliant, but it was enjoyable enough. When I first saw the Wii version I knew it was basically the exact same game with minor changes. Now these two have been revealed this year, and it really is a matter of copy/paste. Oh there's no denying that NSMBU has some nice looking graphics. But other than that it's more of the same in gameplay. What people want is not another repetitive platformer, but a proper BIG GAME Mario platformer like Super Mario Galaxy!

Ps: NSMB2 looks much worse than the Wii U version. No effort whatsoever.

[lounge]

I think that's the problem that they're reusing level themes and music. That doesn't change the fact that they're all superbly designed games. Great level design, multiplayer, gameplay and longetivity. All due to the fact that mario sitll has the original designers and creators. That's why people still buy them. They're extrememly fun games. I think the visuals are leaving a bad impression when it comes to looking like the same damn thing. But maybe this had to do with the rumor that Nintendo is losing money... I don't know maybe that's why they're playing it "safe".

[Tornado]

That doesn't change the fact that they're all superbly designed games.

I haven't played this game. I haven't played the 3DS title.



I have played the original, and I have played NSMBW. "Superbly designed" is being extremely generous. There's nothing "wrong" with them. There never was anything "wrong" with any of the NSMB games, and I have no reason there will be with this one or the 3DS one. The actual problem is not that they intentionally made the games look similar. The problem isn't even that they intentionally made the games look similar because they don't want to bother doing anything else. The actual problem is that the likes of SMB3, SMW and Yoshi's Island are not timeless classics that are loved to this day because there wasn't anything "wrong" with them.

Edited by Tornado, 25 June 2012 - 11:13 PM.

[Carbo]

I think that's the problem that they're reusing level themes and music. That doesn't change the fact that they're all superbly designed games. Great level design, multiplayer, gameplay and longetivity. All due to the fact that mario sitll has the original designers and creators. That's why people still buy them. They're extrememly fun games. I think the visuals are leaving a bad impression when it comes to looking like the same damn thing. But maybe this had to do with the rumor that Nintendo is losing money... I don't know maybe that's why they're playing it "safe".

Nintendo "losing money" speaks less of lack of a more creative Mario game and more why NSMBU exists. It's harder to justify the series' existence on 3DS when Mario 3D Land exists and to be honest I'm far more critical of that being a thing, but in the Wii U's case it's existence isn't going to change the fact that worrying about a triple A big budget Mario game on a Nintendo console is a complete non-issue to this day.

Wii U will see it's Super Mario Space-Time Continuum, it's Metroid Dread, The Legend of Zelda: Non-descript McGuffin and whatever. Eventually. I can agree with NSMBU existing, because it guarantees a launch Mario title when the inevitable big-budget release would be unfeasible to expect. If Nintendo can guarantee Pikmin 3 and NSMBU on launch they already got a good combination of solid games. It's certainly no Dreamcast, but considering how launches these days have been handled it's turned what should be the rule into the exception.

With that said, I agree wholeheartedly with Tornado that there is a ton of leverage for unused creativity with 2D Mario, and U isn't really doing much, especially when it's previous iteration was ridiculously sloppy. It only took me Rayman Origins to be convinced about that, and personally I'm still bitter that "New Super Mario Bros. 2" or any NSMB we're getting isn't instead reinventing another formula, such as Yoshi's Island or SMB2. That and, lest we forget, Nintendo didn't really do much to show anything for the Wii U beyond it's launch period.

[lounge]

The actual problem is that the likes of SMB3, SMW and Yoshi's Island are not timeless classics that are loved to this day because there wasn't anything "wrong" with them.

Huh? Yes they are.... What do you mean they're not timeless classics?

[Deaf Guy in Music Plant]

Huh? Yes they are.... What do you mean they're not timeless classics?

He's saying that they are timeless classics, but not because "there's nothing in particular that's wrong with them." They're timeless classics because they were revolutionary, which NSMB is not.