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  2. This isn't wrong exactly, but even early in the series we were getting GHZ lookalikes like Emerald Hill and Palmtree Panic. They're not as blatant as straight up reusing GHZ, but they're very clearly riffing on the original. It's something that needs to be balanced. Sonic Team's gone too far lately, overusing and cheaply exploiting GHZ as a recognizable location, but it isn't a bad thing for a series to build up consistent aesthetics and recurring locations. Sometimes people seem to be in a rush to throw out anything that's been brought back to the series and that's just overcompensating for Sonic Team's mistakes.
  3. The actual Green Hill itself being overused is an issue (although I don't think it is as big a deal as many are making it out to be at the moment). But again, Green Hill adaptations (like Angel Island) as a trope to highlight the themes of the series are always going to be used. Sonic games are unlikely to find themselves on a place like, for example, Pandora from Borderlands. At least initially and definitely not in a way that centralizes the entire setting and atmosphere. Sonic travels all over the place but he and his little furry buddies clearly live in Green Hill like environments and most often he finds himself fighting to protect that. So if it isn't green hill, its going to be another lush Greenland full of hills and waterfalls. And that should be expected, I think it is unreasonable not to. Outside of that, I can agree that Sonic Team has dialed a bit heavy in the way they constantly reuse classic nostalgia in only the most surface level ways. Only in Mania (which wasn't even them) did they finally do it in a way that actually stayed on point. And I agree that every title should not do that, even a Mania sequel or spiritual sequel should consider refreshing the formula in some way.
  4. Telling people to get over something generally makes them less willing to do so.
  5. This video should also be of interest. And yeah, at least we got a break from Seaside Hill from Dash up to TSR. Most of GHZ’s other appearances are in comics, merchandise, apps, social media... That’s why it’s getting tiring. Another aspect to this “Nostalgic Key Jingling” is “validation”, or swipes at things about the IP that the target audience of the references dislike, such as Knuckles tossing the gun of Shadow aside or Sonic offhandedly mentioning Elise in Dimensions for Classic fans, Zavok getting effortlessly pummeled in Forces for Dreamcast fans, etc. This has also happened in a lot of Star Wars things. Imagine they wheel out Final Egg and have players blow up Wisp, Deadly Six, and Orbot and Cubot dolls, for one thing. Or Sonic getting punched in the face for saying “Baldy McNosehair”
  6. ...Oooooooh so that's what you mean by another Sonic Extreme

    I never go on the main TSS front page so I just knew of it from scrolling my Twitter and saw a RT

  7. Also going to add to this and note that regarding Sonic; the series has a history of establishing each new location as existing in a different location of Sonic's world/universe, whether that is on a new island or a different area of a country or on a different planet entirely. They were designated to be their own thing, not just in the context of whatever story/adventure they were a part of but also in relation to other settings in the series. So seeing Green Hill aesthetics (if not Green Hill itself outright) constantly crop up used in what are supposed to be new environments stories comes across as really uninspired. At least with the NSMB Mario games, they don't hold any pretensions of being games set in new locations (even given a lot of Mario games have actually been asking for that from the 2D games for quite some time now).
  8. With this news of a live action Nightmare Before Christmas remake coming I've gotta ask...

    ... who do you guys consider worse as head of Disney? Bob Iger or Michel Eisner?

    I know a lot of people didn't like Eisner, but at least he took risks to try new things at times.

    1. QuantumEdge


      Considering how Eisner, despite whatever faults he possesses, was in charge during the Renaissance he's automatically beaten by Iger in that contest.

    2. SupahBerry


      This is basically how Cartoon Network went from Stuart Snyder to Christina Miller all over again.


      Many accused the former of making catastrophic choices on the channel (Live Action), but then the later comes along and even more controversial stuff happen under her control (disregarding how involved she actually was in any of it). So people then look back on the Snyder era and appreciated the more daring direction the channel had taken back then (Greater load of actions shows).

  9. I understand this completely and don't disagree. I do not approve of how SEGA has been using their nostalgia...although nostalgia pandering is not an inherently bad thing. My point is that SEGA ha not reused Green Hill as often as people pretend they do. They have in recent year marketing and they did 8 years ago in generations. Outside of that, the majority of content released in this series has had very little green hill in it.
  10. Sonic Lost World and Sonic 4 both got away with essentially doing it in name only. It's aggravating, as someone who likes most of the mainline Sonic games released since '92, to see them view the iconography of classic Sonic and literally nothing else about it as important. Green Hill Zone wasn't the part of those games I missed.
  11. To be fair, they did--Amy went from a brief comic relief character in spinoffs to a main character who gets a lot of focus in cutscenes, to say nothing of Shadow.
  12. I take your point but I don't think this is totally true and even then it is beside the point. The theme of nature vs machine is perfectly captured by the progression from green hill to scrap brain zone. Green hill represents the natural world Sonic and his little furry buddies live in, before the interference from the series primary villain. It its highest ideal, the peace the Sonic is trying to save. So while Green Hill was a level, it is symbolic for one of the series primary themes in general.
  13. Just because Green Hill Zone is iconic that doesn't mean it doesn't get tiring seeing it every 5 seconds. And this isn't me hating on the classic era, I would get fed up if they did the same thing with City Escape, Green Jungle, Radical Highway or any other stage in the series. Have you ever seen that fan video of Present day Sonic being unamused of seeing GHZ yet again and explaining to Retro Sonic why the stage isn't all that exciting anymore? If you haven't feel free to do so now: This may be surprising to hear but there are fans who don't get that special feeling from the stage given how aggressive they have been pushing the stage as if that's the sole way of Sonic of being good which is why fans are expressing their annoyance. The series has been on "Member Green Hill Zone?" as far back as Generations and some of us would actually like the series to actually move forward and that's hard to do when the games have been pretending like it's 1991 for almost a decade.
  14. Probably because that was literally the last [main series] game at the time--it WAS Sonic. Also, Angel Island and the Echidna race were literally a part of the story.
  15. I am legitimately shocked on the state CTR has released in. Broken online and a literal massive game breaking bug is frankly shocking.

    1. JosepHenry


      That sounds quite familiar...

    2. DiamondX


      What is this game breaking bug? I kept hearing there's one but what is it about?

    3. TCB


      ...Game breaking bug?

    4. Ryannumber1gamer


      There's a game breaking bug where at any point, the game will crash. 9 times out of 10, if the game crashes, it will corrupt your save and reset all of your progress.

      Better yet, keeping a backup of the save will not help you either, because if you then download the backup, it will give you back your progress, but not only will it heighten the chances of the game crashing and corrupting again, causing freezes to happen more and more, it will also lock away all of the costumes unlocked via in-game progress (I.E - the costumes you get for completing races), and more importantly - any kart parts, customisation, or characters unlocked via adventure mode. 

      I'm in the middle of a post explaining all of the major bugs atm so check that out when it's up.

    5. TCB


      So like, is there more than one instance/account of this other than yours? 

    6. Ryannumber1gamer


      There's literally topic after topic after topic of this problem on Reddit. There's tons of people in disbelief it got past QA testing with it.

      In fact - that's how I know about the issue - I had a crash, but I was in the lucky 1 out of 10 times that avoided the save corruption. 

      But if you need proof: 


      This is jut one of many topics that popped up about it in the last three days.

    7. TCB


      Oh, that's no bueno.

  16. Man... I get all up in my feels for that game. Its arguably my second favorite title in the series, only behind S3K. Because I know that's mostly where Sonic Team wanted to go and in many ways they got close to it. I have asked for literally nothing else except for a concept like that to be nailed down right and have wanted the same thing since. Even over Mania, which was awesome don't get me wrong, but not the thing I've been obsessing over. I don't think like every game has to have the same aesthetics as the classic games, not at all. But I do think the biggest problem with this series is its lack of fundamental principles. Establishing a fun gameplay concept that is smooth and works excellently is the most important thing anyone at Sonic Team can do right now. From there you can do anything you want as long as it is thought out carefully and in good taste with respect to the character.
  17. Just 100%'d Nitro Fueled's Adventure Mode.

    Crash and Coco doing the crash dance together is the cutest shit ever and I won't hear anything else about it.

  18. Team Sonic Racing being modern only and having a story mode using some of the character's more fringey traits & relationships was a step in the right direction. The next game needs to just be it's own thing, top to bottom. Characters notwithstanding. The key difference is that the Mushroom Kingdom is an actual location with associated characters, locales, and plenty room for creativity. Green Hill Zone is nothing but that place Sonic ran through as the first level in the first game.
  19. Yeah if they really wanna please classic fans they need to look at Sonic Adventure instead of Sonic Lost World.
  20. A fully 3D game that is totally inspired by the '90s era? I... think you just described Sonic Adventure. Moreso than any other 3D game since. No wonder you have a soft spot for it! We haven't seen an Ice Cap Zone remake in years... I give SA a lot of flak for Big's fishing and all the Station Square stuff, but it's really amazing how much love that game has for the Genesis era - specifically for S3&K. I mean, it even had a playable Eggrobo. Sorry, sorry... I meant playable E-Series badnik.
  21. Okay...How many games have started out with Green Hill Zone in the history of the franchise? Not many, right? Generations did it...8 years ago. Mania and Forces did it as deliberate nostalgia bait titles to celebrate the 25th anniversary. And little else except references here and there. So what is the problem? Every single series in existence recycles the same tropes with new and fresh ideas sprinkled in periodically and for good reason. Poo pooing Sonic for that is kind of silly.
  22. Today
  23. No, you didn't. You just expected SEGA to give a shit about someone other than the main 3 for a day.
  24. A good way of eroding what makes Green Hill special is dropping it or something close to it at the front of every terrible game you put forever. Most mainline Mario games don't actually start out in or prominently feature the Mushroom Kingdom outside of the NSMB series. The aesthetics of which everyone agreed to be bland and creatively bankrupt until Sonic started doing it too. Then it was acceptable. Meanwhile the last Mario game dropped you in a ghost village to kick it off and even the usual friendly green level turned out to have dinosaurs roaming around it. It's not unreasonable to expect anything else because "anything else" is exactly what we used to get. They were setting the greenery on fire by Sonic 3 as a "gotcha" and trying to start the game with different tropes entirely by SA2. It's better to start a new game with new scenery. Even with 3D Sonic's affinity for starting near the coastline Heroes gave us a dense ocean ruin and Unleashed a sleepy greek village. The series was never a slouch in terms of new scenery and that's something that should be encouraged.
  25. Fucking hell, nearly went into a panic because CTR crashed after the final lap of Roo's Tubes in the Purple Cup. Thought I was about to kiss my save goodbye.

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