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  1. 48 likes
  2. 47 likes
    I've always imagined that Whitehead, Thomley and everyone else working on Mania aren't a bunch of cocks and that they actually have a great deal of respect both for Iizuka and SEGA at large. You know, the people responsible for inspiring them to pursue their dream job and eventually giving it to them. But that's just me...
  3. 40 likes
    For a while I've felt there's a joke to be made about how Sonic Forces has the same name as Sonic 4 but with one extra syllable and they're both getting poor reception while trying to play both the all-new and nostalgia cards at the same time, but I just haven't been able to articulate it. Like um... err... Sonic Forces? More like... Sonic 4... ces... YES I fuckin' nailed it
  4. 40 likes
  5. 38 likes
    Dear Sega, how to make a Sonic game the majority of everyone would enjoy, in six reasonably easy steps: 1 ) Do not center a game's mechanics on something that will run dry quickly. Boost gameplay is fun, but it's probably the franchise's biggest problem for this very reason. Not only does it make for a game without much depth beyond mastering your reaction times, but also requires the developers to make too much level design / assets / content for stages that are 3-5 minutes long in length, in a game that with that alone would be roughly less than an hour long. Which brings us to.. 2 ) Do not resort to alternate gameplay styles, but do use other characters. I'm sure the biggest reason Sega keeps coming to this decision is simply because they need a way to pad out the game, as well as showcase better the content that they slaved over (only for the boost style to speed past it in 3 seconds). But regardless, no one walks into these games wanting to play different styles, and if they do then they're probably confused as to what kind of game they want to play. What you should do instead is give the player the option to play as other characters, because noone likes when you resort to giving us like three Sonics. For starters, take a page out of how Mania's doing it and give us the Triple Threat or something. And HEY, speaking of Mania.. 3 ) Reevaluate the core of your franchise's gameplay. No, not "speed", that's not a good answer. You wanna be that good good like your old peers, Zelda and Mario? Then revisit the mechanics that made your games work at the primetime of your franchise's life and actually do something with them, ya fucking dingus! Make Sonic roll again, he's a gosh darn hedgehog for chrissakes! And center the gameplay around that good ol' mo. Keep it simple, stupids. Just make your base sauce on this pizza be where Sonic uses slopes to pick up speed, and then rolling exaggerates that, and because you're a ball half the time you're kinda bouncy. Easy as shit, and everyone on God's green earth with a taste for good games loves it (or at least would be okay with it), so stop being dumb! And don't act like it's hard to do, because your first 3D game (Sonic Adventure) did it! And speaking of that.. 4 ) Stop automating your dang games, you trash emporium of a video game company. Everyone forgave you for it in the first one or two 3D games because you (and everyone else) were learning the ropes on how to make games in a new dimension. You've kept the crutch on for the past nearly 20 years now though, and it's only become apparent to ANYONE with eyes that it's a seriously awful idea to try to tout a franchise as an exhilarating example of speed and freedom whenever the player is not allowed ever to have control over their own movement in an area where it matters! Loops and big hills are obstacles / level geometry, not something to claim on your paycheck! 5 ) Give the player a sense of adventure. This is gonna be a rather controversial statement, but I don't think Sonic needs very complex or extremely well-written stories, no. Because let's be frank, the Adventure games didn't keep us gripped because of any sort of compelling writing. No, what Sonic excels at is the sense of adventure to his games, and if you take that out (like it has been quite a lot lately) then the fun is absent. Where's the excitement without feeling like you're progressing in a plot? The story should be where you're constantly traveling, discovering new things, encountering dangers that only escalate as the game goes on, and stakes that are raised at every turn. Make the tension between you and the Eggman Empire MEAN something. If there are no characters, no progression, not even the lightest bit of lore, then why would fans be so inclined to keep caring and progress? I mean, if your game was too good to drop, then sure, but knowing your past I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket. 6 ) Just put a lot of content into it. You got a lot of time left to fill in the blanks of the game with whatever else? Then if you're not polishing the game, put in new modes and random shit, I don't care. Missions, special stages, interacting with NPCs, multiplayer, chao gardens, collectables that give you unlockable art or music or videos or whatever, hell put in a kart racing mode or a mini golf mode or I don't care just do something that'll make me want to come back and play longer than the half hour it'll take to run through stages I wanna replay! ---------- I'm not even joking in saying that if a game came out that covered at least FIVE out of six of these bases, the grand majority would be happy. But will Sonic Team do any of these? Lol, nah. See y'all at E3.
  6. 37 likes
  7. 36 likes
    What about Green Hill? And Green Hill? And Green Hill? And Green Hill? And Green Hill? And Green Hill? And Green Hill? And who could forget Green Hill? My point is of course that Green Hill is Green Hill. It's appeared several times in the series (as have various clones) and it's appearing yet again in Forces. You can't put feathers on a dog and call it a chicken.
  8. 36 likes
    Wasn't sure where to post this but since it has what appears to be one of the Hard-Boiled Heavies in it this board seemed appropriate. Props to the artist whose name I believe is maxjcollins. Unfortunately he seems to have taken the post down from his blog so I can't link a direct source so I'll just leave the gif here: Apologies for the compression. But it really makes me wish we could see more like this in an official capacity.
  9. 35 likes
    If you aren't being obnoxious with your off-topic nonsense between the Mania and Forces topics then you are being obnoxious in other ways including throwing out insults. Either way this is absolutely inappropriate and unacceptable and has gone on for way too long. This stops right now unless you want disciplinary action. And do not bring my warning up in this topic either. Shape up your behavior, show some respect even when expressing your grievances and post here on the SSMB in an actual contributive manner to discussion here or you do not post at all.
  10. 35 likes
  11. 35 likes
    I dunno why you guys think that candy from a baby line is edgy, since it's on the Hero path he's obviously concerned about such a young child consuming that much sugar and not getting any nutrition from it
  12. 32 likes
    "Sonic Forces you to consider creating a topic". Alright, so I wasn't really sure if this was discussion worthy enough to be it's own topic, or not, but then since it does consider both Forces and Mania, and it's more about SEGA's efforts as a whole, rather than the games, I thought it would be enough to justify discussing it in it's own right, because I do think it's an interesting discussion topic. So anyway, on the SSMB Discord server, myself and @TCB got into a conversation regarding Forces and that started going into Force's issues, and the most interesting one I personally thought, and one I've been thinking about lately is one of the biggest issues in my eyes. I think one of the worst things they've done yet for Forces, and Mania in a smaller aspect is their marketing for the games have been completely awful. We all know what the purpose of marketing is meant to be. It's meant to be taking the game, and selling it to us all. Convincing us to buy it. Enticing us. Making us think that we need it. Yet, Forces at the very least has been doing the total opposite. In order to really get down with the issues with the game, we need to look back on the current events we have now, and compare them to other examples. So that leads to the first issue. As you all remember, this is where we got our first official word of Forces, and Mania: Now, as you all might know, I'm one of the admins on SSMB's Unofficial Streaming channel, Motobug. We made this a huge deal. We made a massive Sonic birthday stream all coming up to the birthday stream. A 9 to 10 hour marathon of events because of a few things we did before the stream, and then the stream itself. I am not lying, this was quite possibly one of the most stressful streams Motobug has ever had to do, and keep in mind we do pretty much every gaming livestream that's big, E3, Gamescom, etc. I can tell you firsthand just how much of an utter shitshow this stream was. Between me and @The Deleter having to do a constant juggle act of stream swapping when an issue would come up with the current stream, the stream's actual issues that made us question if it was Taima acting up because surely, surely an semi-professional stream meant to showcase your two latest games would have tests run on it beforehand, right? Between audio cuts, lag, random events, not showing us the full thing, overly long stream, and bad scheduling, the entire thing was an utter shitshow. Now, you might be asking, "alright?, What's your point?". The point is this. You have Sonic Mania, your glorious return to form, the masterful game that's going to revive Classic Sonic. A game created by StealthTax, developers beloved by this community. And how do you market it? By putting it on a random armature livestream of a birthday event, a good portion into the event itself, after rather embarrassing dance moves by a guy in a Sonic outfit, and the Stream itself bugging out, causing the trailer to repeat itself twice with desynced audio. But you know, Mania at the very least barely got away with it. It had actual gameplay, it was proven to be somewhat far in development, and everything looked polished. But then we have Forces. Forces was one of the biggest jokes I've ever seen when it's come to marketing. Thus far, I legitimately think it's an awful marketing campaign, especially for a game that's currently 4 years in development, and the one everyone was relying on to be a return to form. How do we market it? Well first, we make absolutely no hints to it outside of very very few details. Then we put the announcement of it at the very very tail-end of an six hour stream, which for the record was plagued with technical issues, random advertisements for stuffed nachos (I'm not giving shit for this, I know this was sponsored by them and they would need to advertise them), a fucking Crush 40 concert, and more. I would expect most people just to say fuck it as soon as Mania came up and leave. But after all of it, we got a 30 second CGI trailer of Forces...and that was it. And then after all of that...nothing. Absolutely nothing. Since Mania was closer to release than Forces, we got a few details and gameplay after the livestream and the six month period between the stream and 2017, but Forces was pretty much total radio silence. It was completely strange. We have the next big Sonic title, the one that's supposed to redeem five years worth of Meh to Awful games, and we had absolutely nothing. This brings us to the first biggest issue. Too Long Between Details: What is meant by this is not only did SEGA announce this game at a rather terrible time (A technical issue riddled stream, and at the end of it all), but then we had absolutely nothing afterwards. There was no consistent and steady stream of marketing advertising to keep us all excited, and keeping our hype going for the game. We had no gameplay, we had nothing apart from brief details. At best, we knew there could be a darker story, and Classic Sonic would be in it (Oh joyyyyy). Mania was a little more balanced in that regard, but I still felt at points, we ended up with periods of time where we weren't getting any details whatsoever, and the hype was beginning to die down. Even now, we still have a few unclear details about Mania, including a solid release date, despite supposedly being a few months from release. But Forces is where the biggest trainwreck comes in. We jump to 2017, and we finally hear about Forces again! Hooray! We finally got our first bit of gameplay! Hooray! What did we get?! Now, before we go any further, I want to make it clear. I loved this gameplay when I saw it. As a fan of the Boost formula, I thought this is what I wanted. Finally. Some consistency with the gameplay, a decent graphical upgrade (Removing the out of place background), a good atmosphere that actually built to the world and the potential story present (Something we arguably haven't had since Unleashed), and a good soundtrack that sounds appropriate. But there's one major issue. This gameplay wasn't handled well. In fact, it was handled as awkwardly as you possibly fucking could. Please keep in mind exactly how important this one clip was. This 40 second clip. This was literally our first real glimpse at what Forces would legitimately be. Until now, we didn't properly know how gameplay would be, if there was changes, what the framerate would be, we knew nothing. To finally get our first showing of the game proper, it was damn important. How did they market it? Well firstly, it was at a relatively low-key game conference. Secondly, it was done on a half-assed livestream because they didn't find out ahead of time if they would be able to get a proper professional livestream going, which meant for our first official showing of Forces, we had to watch it being recording live from camcorders that fans brought. That, frankly is utterly inexcusable. For a game. FOR THE NEXT BIG GAME IN YOUR FLAGSHIP SERIES, YOU NEED TO PUT EFFORT INTO PROPERLY SHOWING IT OFF TO FANS. And even worse? Unlike Mania, and Forces' trailers, which were literally uploaded by SEGA themselves within minutes of being shown during the Birthday stream, we all had to wait at least 6 to 12 hours for the proper high quality gameplay footage to be uploaded. And then we hit our very next big snag, and the one that sent the Forces topic into a meme... (Apologies, I couldn't find the Direct clip, just comparisons) Now, I want to make myself clear because I know just how much of a thin-ice topic this is. I am still excited for Forces. I can overlook a lot of issues, and I can give games fair chances. This is why I will tend to defend a game when we don't properly have a picture of it. But when I saw this during the Direct, I can understand why everyone hated it. I hated it myself. Now, I'm never been the biggest fan of Green Hill Zone to begin with, so it always being rehashed wasn't exactly a great image in of itself, but when I saw this. I thought this looked like crap. "We're really rehashing this AGAIN?" "Are we really doing a second Generations? Fucking really?" "What is even up with these graphics?!". But you know what makes the issue even worse? We got this during a Nintendo Direct. It was given no fanfare, no announcement, no nothing. Nintendo were hyping up Splatoon 2 and Arms, and yet we had one of the biggest info drops from Forces since it was announced, and we got a few seconds of unannounced footage. Are you serious? Not only that, but to get something that confirmed a rehash, after all this time, after all without fanfare, it was like a total middle finger to everyone. We have been scrambling for any scrap of info on this game, and yet we're still getting screwed around like this with nothing. Absolutely, nothing. It's insane. But then, today, we go into the same issue again. Once again, unannounced and without fanfare, SEGA decided to do a livestream with some Forces and Mania stuff on it. What did we get? The entire Green Hill Level. I'm baffled. Honestly. Utterly baffled. Not only at the shit-poor marketing for a game that has possibly a fucking franchise riding on it, but the fact that the trailer is completely different from the original and better Modern trailer. Modern gave us something different, for as brief as it was. We got a pretty cool atmosphere, we got a cool looking level, everything looked to be in a semi-finished and polished state. It was presentable. And yet here we are with Green Hill Zone. This level. This demo. This is nothing short of a slap in the face. After all of the hype, after all of the wait, and the best SEGA could present us with is an level that looks like it's somewhere between Alpha and Beta, and on top of that, a rehash of one of the simplest levels in Sonic history? With an OST that sounds worse than any of the other themes we heard before? It's just completely baffling how SEGA could be this out of touch with the fanbase to actually believe that presenting us with a rehashed level that looks barely finished is enough of a promotional tool to hype us up for the game. The marketing for this game is just a complete and utter joke, nothing more, nothing less. Let's go one step further. Let's compare this to another series that's making it's grand comeback, and actually handling it's marketing properly so everyone is hyped about it. Crash arguably has even more to prove than Sonic. Not only has he had an even longer run of mediocre titles after his original classics (Like seriously, Twinsanity is the only one I remember considered to be good among the fans after the original four games). Not only that, Crash ended his entire run on a reboot series that had an overwhelming reaction of "Meh". and had unfortunately died out. Spyro got rebooted and forced into Skylanders, and Crash was just gone for years. It was debatable if we'd ever see him in action again, or if he'd just be a lost relic of time, a shining example of PS1 platformers. Then cut to E3 2016. What does Sony do? That, my friends is how you hype the comeback of a platforming legend. Look at that. Look at the level of professionalism and quality on it. We didn't get gameplay here, but they made an utter spectacle out of this. They made it feel like this was going to be an amazing comeback title. A return to the glory years. Not only did they have the classic tunes playing in the background, they changed the entire background and setting to N. Sane Island, they have Crash's shadow on the ground. They don't even confirm what it is at first, they leave you all of the clues, and then announce it. This was even further helped by touches like having the original Crash Bandicoot appearing in Uncharted 4, when for the record, the Crash series was infamous for having copyright issues thanks to Activision, to the point where they refused to allow artwork of Crash in a Naughty Dog fan art contest. Then they keep giving us small pieces of information until we get to PlayStation Experience, where we finally get the proper trailer, a full professional trailer showing gameplay and everything, along with demos set up and everything to show us a lot of the changes. Furthermore, we have been getting consistent information, trailers, gameplay, screenshots, and much much more since the trailer finally dropped. Crash N. Sane Trilogy, despite being a remake of the original trilogy did what Sonic Forces should've done. Sony made a massive deal out of it. They made a huge spectacle, they got an extreme level of hype built right from the start, and then had a smart and concise marketing plan that has consistent information dropping to keep the hype going until launch. They showed properly polished content that was finished to market the game, and damn if it didn't work. Meanwhile, Forces is currently sitting with a barely finished Green Hill Zone, a 40 second snippet of Modern Gameplay, and a unknown third character who looks like Bubsy. I just don't know what I can even say anymore. What else can I say to finish this other than what we all know already. Should SEGA be so heavily relying on Nostalgia? No, of course not. There's no substance and quite frankly, why would I play Forces if I could simply play Unleashed, or Colours, or even Generations. I need something unique. Something that makes it stand out, and makes it interesting. Just seeing Green Hill recycled and given back to me as if it's somehow meant to hype me up is totally unacceptable and a sign of utterly terrible marketing. I leave out on that one final note. One final sentence. Sonic Force's marketing as a whole, and Mania's in some regards has been utter trash. Forces, for what should've been something hyped up extremely, and really really should've been shown at E3, or PS Experience, or Gamescom, or any big gaming conference has been just thrown into shitty streams with no fanfare whatsoever, with no planning whatsoever. It's inexcusable in my opinion, and easily one of Forces' biggest issues. I just legitimately don't understand how any company can think this is how you should be marketing a game that's meant to prove you still know how to pull off good games. It's just completely incompetent in my honest opinion, and that's really sad as someone that is still excited for Forces and legitimately wants it to be good.
  13. 32 likes
    This is not only insulting it's fucking pathetic. Iizuka has done a lot of good since being in the role of head of Sonic Team, not too mention he's apparently quite hands on with a lot of the work that goes on in the development team too.
  14. 31 likes
    Precisely. Let's be honest, Iizuka and Sonic Team all have a very checkered record. I've got my own grievances with them and don't have a great deal of trust that they can consistently deliver what I want. But there's a line that's being crossed here that is very unfair and inappropriate.
  15. 31 likes
    While I expected the sarcastic responses from the majority, personally that tweet makes my optimism continue stronger that they're doing something unexpected and there's more to Green Hill's re-use than meets the eye.
  16. 30 likes
    Okay I feel bad for constantly ripping on this game so I found something I actually like and want to see in all future iterations of Sonic See those sparkles? See that shape? That's a ring shape. Those are sparkle trails from where Sonic collected the rings. Why have they not done that before, it makes sense and it looks cool.
  17. 30 likes
    Was Sonic Chronicles 2 just announced, because I'm seeing a lot of shade.
  18. 30 likes
    Well, I heard Mania got delayed, so I'm taking a break from my media blackout. I doubt much has happened lately--
  19. 29 likes
    nah nah nah nah not today nope no sir I am not letting you shift the focus of this discussion to porn y'all gotta drop this Western Sega romanticist revisionist fetish you have going on here because Sega of Japan making daff decisions now doesn't make SoA immune to it's various failings in the past take a chill pill, Bill and let it play out without the potshots, no one has ever, ever cared Green Hell
  20. 29 likes
    To be honest I don't think the issue with the last few games has been tone or "seriousness," it's been sincerity. Jokes and lightheartedness aren't a problem in themselves, but the current writing honestly does strictly feel like it's just there to fill time between Acts and not much else (and of course this isn't even getting into all the other issues with the writing). SA1's tone is good and if they're genuinely going in that direction, that's great, but more than that I want that era's sense of actually trying to tell a story. Also new writer(s), that'd be nice. I'm genuinely curious, when have the characters ever dwelled too much on something? One of the reasons I'm fine with SA2's tone is that everyone in the main cast seems way more focused on their personal grudges with their rivals than the world being at stake. I can understand people's problems with that game when factoring in the Final Story, tho'. Surely there's a middle ground here. I wouldn't say CD is super dark or anything but I don't see anything wrong with engaging enough with it to take the Bad Futures at least a little bit seriously. Otherwise there's not really much point to 'em.
  21. 29 likes
    The thing is I don't think anyone in the thread is assuming that the character creator thing is the case, we've just ended up discussing it's viability as a concept for a ton of pages now because the generic sillouhette JUST gave it the bump it needed to upgrade from "what a crackpot rumour" to "what if though?".
  22. 29 likes
    My country's leader is waging war against a middle-eastern territory and the coral reefs in Australia are dying and all I can seem to bother myself with is if this game meets my expectations or not what the davy is my life coming to more rum please
  23. 28 likes
    You all need to start following Naoto Ohshima... right now. For the last month he has been posting tons of old concept art, models and some extremely rare pieces of merch on his Facebook page, some of which has never been seen before and there is one thing of particular interest, the very first Sonic plush which was used in the original pitch (we think). Let's start with one of the more amazing posts, he posted an image of various small Sonic statues/figures created by Taku Makino who he calls 'Sega's greatest artist', this was the first time a 3D model of Sonic was created which would be used for testing purposes for a game. Apparently these figures were used to help design the Sonic CD title screen. Hoshino's original sketch for Sonic CD's boxart/promotional art. A draft sketch for Sonic Spinball. A bunch of concept art, some of it is from the Sonic Screensaver, but more interestingly, the artwork was used for the cover of the internal Sega newsletters. Finally, we have something extrodinary, this hasn't been confirmed... but if it's what I think it is, then it's extremely important. This might be the plush which was used in the original Sonic 1 pitch. Then we have this... which you can read my thoughts on it here.
  24. 28 likes
    I always find the dichotomy between the Forces thread and the Mania thread to be intriguing, if not telling. I know the demographic of these forums tend to lean towards the more seasoned Sonic fans (be it retro fans, modern fans, general fans, whatever), but the fact that one game is so universally anticipated with glee (rare exceptions aside, and even then most just say "it'll probably be good, just not for me") while the other is met with overwhelming skepticism at best, and relentless doom-saying at worst (I'm super guilty of this, sorry y'all) is just disconcerting. This is not the kind of split I want to see in the fanbase. Do you know how much I await the day where the divide isn't "this game is better than the other based off of the quality of work being put into them" and is instead "this game will be better for me because it caters to this style of Sonic." It would have been so wonderful if Forces really was just a run-of-the-mill Boost game with iterative improvements in control and scope, without any alternate gameplay baggage weighing it down. Even if it isn't the Sonic game I want, I wouldn't feel the need to say much more than the usual "not my kind of Sonic game, I wish they'd try something like Utopia but oh well," but instead I'm banging my head against the keyboard over how they're butchering the style of gameplay I actually really care about. Again. Since 2010. If Classic Sonic wasn't in Sonic Forces and it was just another Modern Sonic alone romp, I wouldn't be here right now, I'd be content. Like... every chance they get, they manage to find some new way to annoy me with this game. At first it was "oh, it's looking edgy, not my style but wha-" and then "-wait why is Classic Sonic here we have Mania" and then, "wow they did NOTHING to improve the level design from the earlier iterations of Modern Sonic," and "WISPS AGAIN?" then, "GREEN HILL AGAIN," then "they managed to find a way to miss the point of Classic Sonic's gameplay style even more, what's with the boosters and bottomless pits," and followed shortly by, "are they seriously introducing a dumb self-insertion fan-character creator (you can't convince me that this isn't that, that silhouette is too basic and that one post was far too accurate)" and now, "they can't even get the music right." "They can't even get the music right." Every time something about this game gets revealed, it just makes it worse for me. This is like, the opposite of the lead-up to Generations. Guys I'm so tired of being angry about Sonic games. When Rise of Lyric was revealed and during the lead-up to it's release, every time something got revealed, I became less and less excited to the point to where I thought it was genuinely funny how they could mess up a game this much. Sonic Forces stopped being funny, like, day one.
  25. 28 likes
    ... y'know, I'm imagining the higher ups at Sonic Team sitting at a table, and one of them speaks up, "have we tried... making it good?" Iizuka's eyes widen. Everyone gives eachother looks. Nakamura holds his coffee nervously, "I... I suppose?"
  26. 28 likes
    The only way the marketing at this point makes sense is if they're going to do like a huge BotW-esque blowout at E3 where we get a bunch of information and it all comes together as a cohesive experience. I'm talking about showing off a few whole levels, extensive demonstrations of each gameplay style, the new character, some story and background lore, maybe NPC visual confirmation, a definite release date-- all of that, so we know exactly what we're getting and when we're getting it. Maybe they really are just that confident.
  27. 28 likes
    You are completely living in a fantasy world if you think the ability to make and play as a customised Sonic character is gonna make people drop £50 on a game that they weren't interested in for basic fact of it being a Sonic platformer already. The public outside of the fanbase barely care about Sonic, Tails and Eggman let alone Original the Character.
  28. 28 likes
  29. 28 likes
    Looking at what kids are into in the cinemas right now, they seem to like large casts of colorful, super powered characters who have spectacular high-stakes battles with villains, witty dialog that's humorous without undermining the story's premise, and enough drama to keep the audience invested in the characters and events unfolding onscreen. In order for Sonic to remain relevant, he needs to follow those trends... ...please
  30. 27 likes
    One of my favorite things about the boosters in Sonic 3 and Knuckles is, half the time, you never really realize that they're boosters because they're different from one another. Hydrocity has that giant hand on a spinning wheel that charges you like a spinning top and launches you, Carnival Night has those funnels that act as one-way gateways (so you can only take advantage of the speed once), Mushroom Hill has those poles that require a minimum input of speed before they launch you (and some of them are along walls!) and has that low-rise handle on a rope that you grab onto and swing around and it launches you in whatever direction (aerial or otherwise) depending on when you jump, but also must be entered with a minimum amount of speed and not in ball form because you'll not be able to grab it, Flying Battery's speed boosters have a cool-down period after they launch you, etc. And even the bog-standard walk-in speed boosters look different in each Zone anyway, Launch Base's speed boosters are (mostly) functionally identical to Sonic 2's Chemical Plant, but they look different enough to remove that association and visually fit the theme of that level; also, Stardust Speedway's boosters can be approached in any direction. Heck, even Sonic R's speed booster required rings to power it. It just goes to show how some creativity and slight tweaks can make the experience that much more enjoyable. Of course Classic Sonic games had boosters, they were just far more inventive with them, and it made every encounter memorable. Chemical Plant had tons, but it's the only level in Sonic 2 that had them, for instance, and they visually fit the theme of that Zone. A booster meant for Chemical Plant clashes with the Green Hill aesthetic. If Green Hill needs a booster, make it wooden and covered in vines, or maybe a hollow totem pole that's collapsed that has a magical air current running through and Sonic can enter in one end and he comes out of the other side in his ball form at high speed, something. But anyway, nowadays speed boosters are just there to push you in a direction they want you to go. There's no variety, no real obstacle, just a way to add some flash to the gameplay. It's been done so much that even small inoffensive instances of automation are unbearable. They've spoiled it.
  31. 27 likes
    While this is from a 1993 character manual, I can say with full certaincy that if this information is outdated, it has most certainly been replaced with something equally as comprehensive within Nintendo. The idea that Mario is a blank slate is one of the oldest rhetorics from anti-Nintendo fanboys since forever and it's boring and short-sighted. Mario is a character that fully embraces and embodies the spirits of the games that he is the protagonist of. A pretty straightforward concept but one a surprising amount of the simpler game protagonist designs don't really think about (for the record, while it meanders around in some games/media, I think overall Sonic as a character is a success in this regard too). Mario's uplifting personality is a big part of the overall aeshtetic experience that makes the modern Mario games feel like a bowlful of concentrated fun to play. "Joy" to Mario is as "Cool" is to Sonic.
  32. 26 likes
    So here is something amazingly stupid and I would not be surprised if this is the same for every single 'tube' in every single level. How the speed tubes appear to work in this game... you 'run' into them, at a key point close to the start of the first 'drop' when the curve begins, the game automatically puts you into a ball mode... this automatically boosts your speed. So in other words... these become automated sections. This in itself is really poor... but this is where things get even more stupid. Ladies and Gentlemen... The Green Hill Zone. This is the first speed tube, at the start of the bend, Sonic gets an artificial speed boost regardless of the speed he is going at. Here is how this tube ends. With a booster... what isn't pictured is that you exit this towards a vertical loop, now this booster might be ok or justifiable if there was not enough space or a door shuts which can trap the player and there's no possible way for momentum to get up that vertical path... however, there is... it's called the spin dash. For info... this was a design choice from Sonic 2's metropolis zone, however there was no booster... the player had to use the spin dash to escape... For more stupidity points.. the time between these auto boosters is less than 1 second. Here is the next tube. Booster right at the start of the automated section... again no reason for this other than to hand hold and point a direction... there is doubly no reason for this because... Again, the player gets an auto boost (very hard to notice because of the booster being less than a second ago, virtually no loss in speed, but it is definitely there. So we have 2 boosters literally right next to each other... in an automated section... Here is the next loop... .. ... which is less than a second at the end of the other... Again, automated moment, players speed is set to max... This drop is a double drop, so gravity plays a part in increasing the players speed... So why does the loop end with this. Another max speed booster... for a small incline hill... there is no reason for this, the momentum of the loop drop is more than enough to get up this incline... furthermore, there are no hazards here to even justify artificially increasing the players speed to this level. So... anyone even want to try to defend/apologise for these design choices?
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    Asking for more than classic minimalism = wanting Metal Gear Solid writing, just like asking for anything from the Adventure games means you literally want Sonic 06 2. We have to assume the worst out of everyone not asking for Classic ideals to prevent the worst from happening again, because we're passionate.
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    They look super similar if not the same. Ones edgy and the other is not.
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    Sonic Mania has already gained a stupid amount of attention from people, and is most likely gonna be considered by many to be a return to grace. Expect 8s-9s (and maybe a 10 if we're lucky). All press has been overwhelmingly positive, pre-orders have sold out and social media can't stop buzzing about it. Polygon, IGN, various gaming journalists all throughout Twitter and beyond have been lapping it up. It's been a non-stop hype train for almost everyone, give or take a few people for their own reasons. Sonic Forces, once it's gimmick is revealed to the public, is going to get a mountain of ridicule for reminding the world of Sonic's underside community, and will get kicked to the curb. People are also going to see the gameplay and possibly complain that it looks worse than before in Generations (granted those qualms aren't calmed in time), or at least say that they're not sure if they want to do all this "custom character" junk just to play more of the same. Small sects of fans and young kids are going to be all for it, but no matter how much polish is put into the ideas laid out here, Forces will most likely end up getting anywhere between 4s-7s (and if you think that's too unfair, see Unleashed). And god, the stigma that we just grew out of will return once more in full force. Say you don't care as much as you want, but that kind of thing affects how you discuss anything with anyone in a community like vidya's, and being social animals, you'd think we'd rather not be a fan of something that literally no one will take you seriously for liking or having an opinion on! Plus, said social interaction is what gets demand and discussion of change, so you'd think we'd want to be vocal about it too. By the end of the year, a small indie development team on a smallish budget would've fiercely outplayed a AAA video game studio with millions of dollars poured into a game that (apparently) has taken 3-4 years to make. And how do I know? Because it's been laid out in front of me like a goshdang crumbtrail to a candy house. So where will they go from there? God, who knows. Will they reevaluate themselves and work accordingly to capture what people found appealing in Mania in their future titles, or will they mismanage as always and continue Sonic down a trail of misunderstanding every fault and continuing to pander to fleeting trends and melting nostalgia? I'm gonna bet the latter, but the former would be nice.
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    I would also point out that, with people judging the game on just a few seconds of trailer footage, our impressions don't come from an empty void. Most of us danced the Sonic tango many, many, many times. Myself, after Sonic Lost world, I especially decided to pay close attention whether the next game would have a more focused and clean identity, because I felt Sonic Lost world collapsed in on itself by lack of a core soul. It felt like a giant pile of ideas on a shapeless heap, sufficating each other to death. That's why I'm alarmed that right after I learn the director of Sonic Lost world is back, I witness new footage that feels utterly alien from the previous stuff I've seen. This is ringing all kinds of alarmbells in my head. Sure, the sand may imply Green Hill zone is also in disrepair, but the art style feels utterly diffrent. It's not so much that it's (potentially) Green hill zone, it's that it just looks out of place with the other established aesthetics.If it was Generations style detailed Green Hill zone, I'd have more peace with it. Well, as far as "Oh god, Green hill zone agaaaaiin" exasperation can be called peace. It comes across to me as a possible hint that the game's fighting with itself again, like Lost world was. So sure, I don't have the real knowledge to know if something's wrong or not, but I'm starting to see subtle cracks.
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    It's been a while since I've seen the fanbase this in sync with one another.
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    Can I ask that we don't devolve into scrutinizing people for liking Sonic games again
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    I can't agree with this at all. For all its shortcomings (of which there are many), Lost World actually sought to answer a lot of the complaints people had and still have with modern Sonic games. It was less automated, had more platforming with a fair amount of variety, and there was an actual attempt at making Sonic control more accurately by giving him tiered movement (i.e a run button). I can sympathize with people who like the boost games and don't think SEGA needs to completely reinvent the wheel, but I think they also saw that building off of that style was difficult, and that making something new was more interesting and gave them the opportunity to address criticism. It's been over 10 years and people still make jokes about Sonic 06. It's still the quintessential bad game. There is no way you could compare it to Lost World favorably.
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    "PEOPLE OF THE WORLD!!! I, The great and glorious Dr. Eggman, have overthrown all your world goverments, and hereby declare the entirety of Sonic's world, under my rule! AND AS LEADER, MY FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS SHALL BE...! Sand. Just, take all the world's beaches and dunes, and, Idunno, dump it somewhere? Hate the stuff. I mean do you have any idea how long it takes to clean out of my patented Eggman slacks? Three hours. Three whole hours, just because someone had the bright idea that it'd be faster to get to the mall through emerald coast than speed highway, I swear..."
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    I wanted to do something funny, but didn't have the software and fuck I don't even care hope you all like trial version watermarks I put more effort into this that SEGA did into being creative.
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    10 seconds of footage, 100 posts arguing over it. The Sonic Experience.
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    In Colours DS they had this surprisingly subtle (note: not particularly deep or complex, but it wasn't spelled out either IIRC) concept of Shadow acting as a stealth mentor of sorts for Sonic, challenging him in order to make sure Sonic's actually pushing himself to be a better hero and all that. I dunno, it's nothing mind blowing but I thought it was an interesting idea and I was kinda curious to see if they'd build on that in his future appearances. ........
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    Now come on, you know this isn't true. If you are travelling at speed at that section for the first time, you will never avoid that booster, you will always hit it because you don't know the level layout. It's also clearly a hand holding device as opposed to good game design, instead of allowing the player to learn about the game and figure out how to handle obstacles, they can cheaply just touch that power up and blast past the hazard. That's not good game or level design, it's cheap and devalues the stage. It also results in the age old problem of automation and 'Am I actually playing this' if there are boosters there for what should be a relatively simple hazard to navigate. Furthermore, even if I do master that stage, and i know it's coming, given it's position should I try to jump it, my speed will suffer upon leaving the ground or landing due to the difference in level geometry, meaning I'm penalised for actually being good at the game due to a hand holding device.
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    Gonna have to disagree strongly with the notion that classic Sonic is a character that was "left behind" when modern Sonic has very obviously been intended to be the same character as him from the very beginning, with just a few design tweaks. Maybe you're not intending it literally, but I personally find any notion that classic Sonic and modern Sonic are two different characters to be strange and annoying, frankly. As a classic Sonic fan who appreciates quite a bit from newer games, I see no reason why you can't just take the one Sonic and try to make him the best he can be, including taking the best from the classic games and the modern (at least as far as it's feasible to do so). Basically, I want classic Sonic to INFLUENCE modern Sonic, not for him to constantly be pushed off to the side as his own thing. I'd love some sort of meaningful interpretation of the classic style in a 3D environment, like Sonic's stages in the Adventure games with more polish. As long as Sega insists on modern and classic being separate, that's not as likely to happen, as far as I can see. And me no likey that. Don't get me wrong, new 2D classic Sonic is great, but Mania is already giving us what appears to be a much better version of that...
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    So, what kind of stages do you want in the game? All I want is a rainy stage. Something like this: Running with Sonic in a place like this, with a peaceful yet energetic atmosphere and music (Kinda like Planet Wisp) would be amazing. Just make this place more cartoony and I'm good! Rain and dark clouds are underrated. The only games that did rain right was Sonic R and Heroes.