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  1. 39 points
    You can break apart how bad the level design is and demand better without psycoanalyzing the people that like it and acting like something's wrong with them for it. That shit doesn't sit right with me. You don't need to bring them into it at all really. It doesn't really serve much of a purpose aside from inflating your own ego.
  2. 37 points
    Friendship Ended with Sonic Now friends with infinite
  3. 32 points
    I'm just pointing this out because I'm an avid trophy hunter. I've gotten all of the trophies in mainline Sonic titles to this point (Yes, including Unleashed, Generations, Mania etc). Trying to claim that the game is trying to manipulate the player into wanting to get achievements is downright silly and an absolute grasping at straws to throw another stain onto Forces. Like seriously, as someone who's been a trophy hunter for years, and someone who loves collecting them, with nearly 100 to my name in terms of platinums, I do it for the challenge and for the fact it actively rewards me for fully completing games. It sounds like such a small detail, but I actively feel a lot more motivated to try 100% stuff on PS4 as compared to something like Wii U or Switch because not only do I get an small reward for doing so, but it easily lets others know about the challenges and such I've done. It makes me feel good about my gaming skills to overcome a legitimate challenge. Perfect example, Unleashed was nothing short of downright frustrating at times, but the challenge of it was enough to make me keep going, and I felt a massive feeling of achieving something when I did manage to beat Unleashed 100%. I didn't do it because the game somehow magically read my mind, and mentally manipulated me into doing it, I did it because I wanted a challenge, as I'm sure others would do if they want a challenge. And yeah, of course we get a burst of excitement when we hear that *ding*. It's because we've managed to do something that was challenging or took a bit of time and pulled it off, is that not meant to be the inherit point of achievements? To actively make the player feel good for pulling off something in the game? Like at the end of the day, absolutely nothing forces you (pun not intended) to go after Forces' achievements. There's plenty other games out there with easy trophy lists if you want that feeling of "oh i did something cool". Forces shouldn't be given shit for wanting to give the player various challenges. Honestly, next thing you know, we're going to be giving Mania shit for mentally manipulating the player to play through the shitty Blue Sphere stages because "oo, trophy for gold medals!!!". And on that note, I also would like to point out that you don't need to speedrun a platinum trophy? Like unless you're a hardcore gamer who absolutely must keep playing a game until you get that platinum, you can simply just walk away, take a break, play other games, and come back and do a bit more for the grinding trophies. On top of that, I heavily doubt a Modern Sonic title is going to be a massively long game that's going to immensely burn you out on multiple plays of it. If you like Forces, then you'll probably go for the trophies because they provide extra challenge and you don't mind a few extra playthroughs. If you don't like Forces, then just go find another trophy list for a game you enjoy. Giving Forces shit for something other games have done worse on a far worse scale is really silly. Like seriously, if you think this is a bad trophy list, then go see the levels of grinding a Danganronpa game or even Rayman Legends forces you through for it's platinum.
  4. 32 points
    This is funny without context lmao
  5. 32 points
    Also, may I add how fucking dumb it is that they didn't show this off at the TGS events themselves, and how whoever it was that said "watch them reveal another level right after this" totally called it?
  6. 32 points
    Silver: "We have to show them that strength doesn't just come in numbers!" [the literal next shot has the resistance storming Eggman's base with a massive army, the literal definition of "numbers"] did they not think this through or
  7. 32 points
    This isn't necessary.
  8. 31 points
    To all the people wondering why we're disappointed, let me just ask this: Even though it's 6 years later and on more powerful hardware, why is it that the level design is a massive step down from Generations? Instead of just a generic Lost World style 2D stage why can't we have something like this? : You know level design that is mostly 3D, has platforming that complements speed and flexible design that skilled players can experiment with and find paths that grants then faster times, like so: If after watching these 2 videos you still think that the level design is not lazy and that Sonic Team despite clearly knowing how to do better than this, doesn't seem to care enough to do it, then I have no idea what else to tell you, you are settling for less instead of expecting equal or superior quality to what was done previously, and quite frankly you shouldn't. Shouldn't this game take what Generations did best and expand and improve upon it? Is it really unreasonable to expect Sonic Team to improve upon their previous work rather than regress?
  9. 31 points
    I don't want to ruin anyone's excitement for this, but.. I just can't stop laughing. Shadow is literally going through the same section two times in a 57 seconds-video.
  10. 30 points
    Looks like Tyson Hesse will be an artist for the book
  11. 30 points
    ??? What's the point of this, exactly? If anything this kind of attitude is why people would prefer to stay out of topics.
  12. 30 points
    As per the countless reports we've gotten regarding Forces as of late, I'd like to remind participants that this discussion is to remain civil. It's incredibly annoying to see the sheer amount of negativity surrounding Forces be directed towards the members of the forum who are genuinely excited for this game. Respect that others actually have hope for this title. Keep the "Sonic Cycle" and other various forms of trolling out. Discuss your opinions of the game properly without shutting down other people. This goes for all discussions, obviously - but it's most prominent when Forces is brought up.
  13. 29 points
    So after seeing this Shadow DLC, I just find it crazy how it's been what... 3 - 4 times that "Desert Green Hill Zone" has been shown off in all sorts of different locations yet it's been missing something so basic. We have all this sand here. It's literally everywhere, yet not one time do any of these acts use this to their strengths, let alone hardly acknowledging it in the actual level design (It's used as a small instant kill zone once for an Avatar stage). The level design and the art behind it feels so disconnected to me, and I just can't help but wonder "What makes this a Desert Green Hill Zone?", because all I'm seeing is Generation's GHZ for Classic Sonic and the same lost and found assets mostly from Sonic Colors that are also being plagued in other zones like Sunset Heights, another zone with GHZ as its backdrop, for the other characters. Where're the stage specific set pieces, aesthetics and the gimmicks that goes along with the theme at? Why is the sand not playing any part in a desert zone filled with nothing but sand and teetered mountains yet we have nameless bots and generic platforms over bottomless pits in this zone that we see in every other zone to constitute as challenge? Hell, this zone might as well be Sunset Heights or vice versa. Did the level designers even talk to the artist or know who each other even are? Basically, this is Forces to me at the moment: Sweet! Can't wait to see what the next level's looking like: ... As far as I can see, none of these locations matter. Every stage so far plays out essentially the same just with randomized universal asset order to make up an entire act, and this DLC so far takes this to a whole new level. I mean, even Sonic 4 knew to spice things up a bit and give new challenges based on the theme of the zone even outside of the ideas it ripped from. You mean to tell me we can't even have that in Forces? Why have we not seen anything like this yet for how long we've known of this game? It's a shame, because I do like the concept of Shadow having his own flair based on Sonic's mechanics, and I feel Sega finally has something cooking with what they have there, but clearly this level design isn't even putting 1/3 the effort to potentially help enhance Shadow. Not with him running around in Randomized Asset Zone act 0 with all of this automation and tap A to win nonsense. I really hope that was just the bad egg of the DLC bunch and somehow the next new zones in Forces will be brimming with personality in general. At least this DLC is free, too, which is always a plus.
  14. 28 points
    Are they seriously telling us what rings do?
  15. 27 points
    So I know we've moved on, but I'm tired of this being a recurring trend and I know it's going to be brought up again anyway so might as well make my statement before it happens. I actually don't like the looks of Forces, either, and seeing Chemical Plant returning is frankly making me groan. Before someone plays that card, no, it was not okay in Sonic Mania, either. The fact that Sonic Mania actually delivered a competently programmed experience certainly made it more forgivable, but I (and I'm pretty sure everyone else) would have preferred an original stage instead. With that said, I still usually agree that the cynicism for Forces and snarky remarks are overbearing and make this community... well, pretty miserable at times. Not going to lie. But after receiving a few reports, I've looked through this thread and found that honestly, the snark and cynicism is mostly coming from the people looking forward to the game. Put another way, the people complaining about the negative atmosphere are actually the primary contributors. And this thread isn't even the only place where this is a problem. The hypocrisy is frankly astounding. So as an ultimatum of sorts, any troillbaity comments like "lol this community can't please fans" or "sonic mania fanbois" or whatever will receive disciplinary action at moderator discretion. If you like what you see in Sonic Forces, great. Explain why. We'd love to hear it. But don't act like you've been personally assaulted when someone disagrees. The same is true for the opposite side. If you don't like what you see, tell us why. If you disagree with someone, calmly explain why. If you see any instances of harassment (note: harassment is not the same as "someone has an opinion I don't agree with and said as such") simply report it. On a personal note, I'm one of the few on this forum that actually liked Sonic Lost World, and dear God, you don't want to ever bring that game up if you're sensitive to negativity. That is to say, I get what it's like to have a minority opinion. I get what it's like to enjoy something most people hate. Heck, I enjoy lots of things that everyone hates. We all do. It's part of life. But this is a discussion board, and while I generally agree that perhaps the zealousness this community has is a bit extreme, to get so antsy because people are insulting a game you're looking forward to doesn't exemplify a moral high ground. It just shows you have a weak resolve, which either means this board simply might not be for you or you need to take a step back and repeat to yourself "hey, this actually isn't such a big deal to be honest." To recap, no more snarkbait or flame fuel on either side. If someone is calling you names or doing something actually offensive, report. As for this topic in particular, let's please keep the conversation focused on Chemical Plant's inclusion in Forces, and not on rather or not you like the way the fandom is responding to it.
  16. 27 points
    You could play Mania instead.
  17. 27 points
    Wanting good level design is now nitpicking.
  18. 26 points
    Yeah, to you anyway. :U The actual pic resembles concept art, so it's either a full cutscene reveal tomorrow or since I keep hearing Ian's knowing smile thing, it could also be a IDW sneak peak with a Forces tie-in being one of their new announcements. I dunno, I wish I could settle for some not-Chemical Plant gameplay, but knowing the official Sonic account, it would've just been 30 seconds.
  19. 26 points
    Uh no they're not These are achievements, things you go out of your way to collect, it's not ''Beat the game with all species to unlock the true ending'', it's ''beat the game with all species if you want to get an achievement'', not only it's entirely optional but it's not intrusive.
  20. 26 points
    I generally think Iizuka comes off much worse in interviews than he really is. From what I understand, he was part of the driving force behind Mania. He genuinely believed in that project and allowed it to become what it is. If he was given free reign to direct a new Sonic game withotu being strong-armed by anyone higher up in SEGA, I wonder what we'd get. The Adventure style gameplay (for Sonic, not the rest of the genre roulette) is the way forwards for Sonic in 3D. It's almost 20 years since SA1 first came out. There's a lot of way it could be improved and expanded upon.
  21. 25 points
    Take a dump as Shadow. Go to the market as Shadow. Find love as Shadow. As Shadow. ASSHADOW.
  22. 24 points
    Pessimism aside, I'm kind of hoping he actually was just a regular dude who drank the Eggmanland Cool-Aid. The idea that there could be people in Sonic's world who'd willingly be allured by the Eggman's Propaganda is an idea that I adore. Now, redeeming him is an entire matter all together. That I'd... probably really hate. I suppose it still matters how it's done but... despite looking forward to the story I ain't got THAT much faith in them to think they'd handle that in a way that'd satisfy me. No sir. Fuck em. We don't live in a world where people are only apart of one fanbase and no others. Any weirdo willing to laugh at someone for liking one series while being unaware that it's very possible they both might be fans of a different series is a person not worth paying attention too. We've all shown to be capable of pointing out what we do and don't like about SEGA and Sonic Team's decisions amongst ourselves. It's not worth entertaining the thoughts of morons who think games are super serious business and like to turn every little dumb thing into a pissing contest. If Infinite's an "edge-lord" or whatever and that's seen as a problem then the normal thing to do is talk about why we don't like it or do like it and move on. Cackling hyenas off to the side need not apply.
  23. 24 points
    What do you mean, there's already plenty of Modern Sonic zones revealed. They brought back Chemical plant zone from Sonic Mania, Sky Sanctuary from Sonic all stars racing transformed, Death Egg from Lego DImensions, Green Hill zone from EVERYTHING. These locations show up more in modern Sonic games then they ever did in the classic games by this point, maybe they're officially classified as Modern Sonic zones now?
  24. 24 points
    God damn it, SEGA. Once again they do something with this game that sounds good on paper and is executed horribly. And no word of a lie, I'm genuinely intrigued by the story potential here. If it really shows Shadow fighting on the good side, and shows how he ended up siding with Infinite, this could be brilliant. But even after all the shit I've given the rest of the gameplay in Forces, holy fucking shit this actually looks ten times worse. I'm at a loss. Nobody can seriously be defending this. Nobody can honestly think that this... ... looks good. And if you do, you've got absolutely no standards and are the reason that SEGA gets away with this shit.
  25. 24 points
    Sonic Team's master plan in action.
  26. 23 points
    They can't do 2d either. Problem with Sonic team is bigger then 2d/ 3d. All they're good at is giving Taxman the keys once. Considering he calls himself friend of Pixels as well as polygons, might as well ask HIM to make a 3d Sonic game. Sonic Forces IS a 2d game in heart and soul. Don't take my word for it, it's how Sonic Team describes it, check this quote from this article: https://www.polygon.com/2017/9/19/16333174/sonic-adventure-3-will-never-happen "Instead, we’re likely to see more Sonic games that try new things in much subtler ways. Recent Sonic titles, like this winter’s Sonic Forces, reinvents traditional Sonic gameplay by molding a 3D space around it, as opposed to adapting the 2D action for a 3D environment." See, that's their gameplay at the moment. Start with "Traditional Sonic gameplay (Sic)", and then create the illusion of a 3d world around it, hence why most of the meat and potatoes of the gameplay takes place in 2d sections while the 3d sections are mostly straight corridors that might has well have been in 2d as there's rarely 3d movement required to navigate. So there's your answer to what 3d Sonic's future is, to be smoke and mirrors around an incompotent 2d game. What I would WANT, out of a 3d Sonic game, is them to go back to the drawingboard and make a compotent Sonic Adventure without the alternative playstyles and instead increase the length of the game either with an level editor system or an advanced 2 player arcade mode. I would also like to be a gazillionair and have a flying car. Let's see which happens first.
  27. 23 points
    It might be what Sonic's falling into right here
  28. 23 points
    Wow he outright said that this game was inspired by fanart. OC fanart inspired a Sonic game. We reached the apex of Sonic the Hedgehog games folks. Nothing can surpass Sonic Forces.
  29. 23 points
    Joke Response: Hogfather, you should know better then to dishonor the oldest, most noble and almost only rule of the GHZ subforum Real Response: The reason these topics have traditionally been banned is the discussion is done to death, and outside of petty name calling and shit slinging over whether or not game X is actually the real SA3, these discussions are often circular, blood pressure raising exercises in semantics. It's pleasing to see that the first 4 pages of this topic were mostly civil but I think it's now run it's course. Hogfather, Mayor D, really disappointed to see you in here antagonizing members and derailing discussion- as a member of the staff and representative of the site you really need to do better than this.
  30. 23 points
    Finally, more Park Avenue.
  31. 22 points
  32. 22 points
    I was joking when I made this... Didn't really mean it. Can it countinue to be a joke and not an assumption Please
  33. 22 points

    Sonic Forces Twitter Infos Thread

    The Adventure games both presumably take place in the "human" world, right? So why were the ancient echidnas there, and why did Gerald make his "ultimate life form" a big talking hedgehog? It just doesn't make any sense, it only makes things more complicated and leaves more holes.
  34. 22 points
    Blue Blood

    Sonic Forces Twitter Infos Thread

    The "booster" scattered on the stage is very important. If you run into one, it will not be a mistake and you can run briskly! You can play the game without even trying, until you fall into a crime or get squashed by something, you will get mistaken by one shot!
  35. 22 points
    It's literally just Casino Night plastered on top of a Silent Forest. There's nothing creative on show, nor is there any effort to make some good level design.
  36. 22 points
    Are you serious right now?..... Are you seriously about to question certain people's maturity cause they actually have something good to say about this?
  37. 22 points
    That's completely nonsensical. Are you saying that free DLC necessarily shows a lack of confidence? The Zelda DLC in Lost World was free, and they made a bunch of new assets for that. In fact, it was one of my favorite levels in the game. Most of the content in Splatoon is free DLC, and the game sold over 5 million copies, with it's distribution model being near universally praised. Plus, they are not sneaking it in. They are advertising it RIGHT NOW. How can you say they don't have confidence in it when they are advertising it?
  38. 21 points
    I think he's basically an unironic Coldsteel the Hedgehog and that this is a real thing that is actually happening is why other fanbases laugh at us.
  39. 21 points
    Apparently when they said "it's not Generations 2" what they really meant was "it's actually just Generations 1 again"
  40. 21 points
    Alright. No more meta commentary. Just stop. Stop telling people they have no standards because they're fine with it. Stop calling the other side uptight because they don't like it. Talk about the fucking game, criticize it and SEGA all you want. But I don't want to see any more personal shit in here. This, basically.
  41. 21 points
    There's plenty of swearing actually, it's just not coming from the game.
  42. 20 points
    Mayor D

    Sonic Forces - Chemical Plant is back

    Just like all the level design & gameplay for this game!
  43. 20 points
    Eggman winning should mean Chemical Plant should be THRIVING, not a broken down piece of shit, what?
  44. 20 points
    Alright I know people want to go on and on about how Forces has the worst level design of the series and doesn't have any redeeming qualities, but even if this level is still automated out the wazoo in terms of slope and speed physics, the important thing here is that there are physics on focus here regardless of that scripting in other areas. Specifically, platforming. Green Hill Classic was almost objectively bad for three reasons: It was made out of straight lines, with almost no platforming or challenges to speak of, and it's speed was as shallow as holding right/spindashing forever and hitting boost pads. The classic physics were absent entirely. What platforming there was, was automated by yellow springs, removing the need for you to jump almost entirely, and babying you throughout the level. There were practically only 10 places you actually needed to jump in during the level in total Classic Sonic had no real reason to have gameplay in this game if this was all that he offered. He had no physics, he had no speed challenges unique to him, none of the platforming couldn't have been done by the other characters... there was nothing going for him. His inclusion in the game is entirely pointless from a gameplay standpoint. Here, it still suffers from at least half of those problems, to be expected, but: There are platforming and physics challenges with the bumpers and pinball paddles, and maneuvering challenges in general, in the same vein as Sonic 1 as a platformer. These challenges are specific to Classic Sonic and his physics, actually providing a justifiably unique experience for once. It's not focused on speed, and it's the same amount of unique that Sonic 4 has, but it's something. I know settling for slightly better than the worst of the worst isn't a particularly appealing prospect, but at least it's better than a complete absence of these elements in favor of "Straight lines and springs: The game", as Classic had the possibility of actually being this time around. It would have been even worse than Sonic 4 in that case. But on another note Physics everybody :V That was me : P
  45. 20 points
    Have we talked much about the vines growing in the background? They appear to be taking over the ruins here, and it other places causing the ruins to collapse. Similarly to Green Hill becoming a desert, Casino Forest appears to be suffering from Eggman's rule. I like that aesthetic. And I'd like it even more if we find out that this is a result of the Phantom Ruby slowly corrupting things, like it did with the HBHs. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a factory in Green Hill - the landscape slowly began to dry up into a desert, with sand replacing the water. Eggman uses the Ruby to build a casino on some ancient ruins - dangerous plants start to take over. This is just guesswork, and I expect that actually explanation for the bad things happening in these environments will just be "Eggman made it turn bad" (if we even get an explanation at all). All that said though, it's nothing more than a minor background element in this level, which is a shame. Hopefully Modern Sonic or the Avatar version of this stage will incorporate it more. Classic Sonic's version barely uses the ruin or forest aspect in the slightest.
  46. 20 points
    It was hoped that the SSMB would of been able to engage in such a topic in a decent and constructive manner but bar some exceptions, the number of crude, obnoxious and tasteless posts in this topic have proved otherwise which is very disappointing. Even among the posts that actually contribute to the topic at hand this topic is beyond salvaging at this point so it's being shut down.
  47. 20 points
    Blue Blood

    Sonic Forces has Denuvo

    Wow, now we can say for certain that Mania and Forces are connected!
  48. 20 points
    Well this is... something.
  49. 20 points
    Wow, once again Sonic Forces manages to be exactly what I want and love AND exactly what I feared and hate at the same time. Playing this game will be such a weird experience.
  50. 20 points
    So I found out about this late last night. I was excited even though I don't really like Shadow. Then I saw the video a few hours later and... my hype levels collapsed. The level design is not good at all. The stage is so short. The automotion is just insane. You're not playing the stage you're watching it. There are no tactics at all for each instance of an obstacle it's either homing attack or... that. But just visually, it looks really bad.