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Nepenthe

Retired Staff
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Everything posted by Nepenthe

  1. There is little precedent of modern day Sonic Team taking inspiration from the better-received 2D products, including the ones they've made, aside from superficial nostalgia and gameplay trappings, much less implementing any kind of feedback sensibly. I don't know why we think Mania is going to change that.
  2. I'm not all that enamored with Forces myself. I'm saying that Mania isn't all that directly comparable with Forces, and thus making it a contest is dumb.
  3. As much potential as Utopia has it doesn't seem to have an overwhelming positive consensus either, probably because it's really open and fans are unsure about whether or not Sonic should even be in an open world at all. Regardless, we've outlined tons of problems over the years in really exacting detail, but the fandom has yet to implement a solution that's as clear and concise as Mania being a response to Sonic 4 is. Because it's harder, and we all know it's harder even underneath the hype that is the fact that a fan project essentially has Sega's blessing. This should probably provide an infinitesimal amount of empathy to anyone brave enough to work at Sonic Team proper, but whatever. Gotta stick it to our stuffy Japanese overlords and show just how much smarter we are, I guess. Ultimately, Mania is undoubtedly going to have a better reception than Forces. But then again Secret Rings had a better reception Sonic 06. Comparing the reception of disparate products with different intents and different developmental environments and needs just because they're under the same franchise banner isn't a constructive way to look at things.
  4. They're not getting help from the fans. The fans are making a 2D Sonic game that's almost exactly like the classics that long-departed figures of the entity that is "Sonic Team" made 25 years ago. This helps in that it gets people genuinely excited for a product with Sonic's name on it in a time where Sonic is still quite the laughing stock (although even I'm not going to act like people weren't genuinely excited for and still hold Generations dear). But it has absolutely nothing to do with the issue of what to do about the franchise's place in a 3D environment which- again- just about no one in the fandom has been able to pull off to a widely convincing degree. Either projects go unfinished or the fandom balks at the ones that get a demo out. Mania is going to come and go, and we're probably still going to be stuck with the issue of how to get Sonic impressively working in 3D, and as far as we know no one in the fandom is helping out with that either because they're not interested or because- surprise surprise- it's much harder to do than aping a perfected 2D formula.
  5. You're comparing two different games with two completely different scopes of development. There's probably a few reasons that PagodaWest and the fan sector in general have concerned themselves with making a classic retread instead of a 3D game that's competitive with even the worst Sonic Team has to offer outside of "we really like the classic games."
  6. > Watching today's Treehouse footage of Odyssey.

    > Demonstrators come across a Fire Bro.

    > "Oh my god, capture it!"

    > Fire Bro is captured.

    > He has the cutest hop ever.

    > "Take my money. And a tip."

     

    1. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      And it has spikey hair

      A first for the mainline games outside the Mario RPGs, I think

    2. Adamabba

      Adamabba

      And he had hair too. Woah

  7. I can't muster up that much sympathy for politicians getting caught in the violent fallout of what's been going on. We use war metaphors to describe social ills. We almost always respond positively to military action and budget increases. There's numerous media outlets out there saying dark-skinned Muslims and Latinos as "coming for you," yes you, all the way in the town of Bumblefuck in No Commerce County, Wyoming. We talk about the second amendment as necessary to stave off a tyrannical government, and that any attempt to fix our gun laws is part of a conspiracy to make it so that law abiding citizens can't protect their country in case they need to. There's been a constant narrative of some large existential threat coming for white people and that they should be utterly pants-pissing terrified for decades now that I'm surprised shit like this hasn't happened more often and sooner. I'm also surprised but not surprised that the GOP that's been really adamant on making obvious political power grabs for the sake of their wallets and job security, even against the wishes and pleas of their own constituents, are surprised that someone thought this probably counted as tyranny and tried to kill Scalise with a gun. "You need guns to fight back tyranny... wait, not our tyranny!"
  8. So this is the kind of stuff the GOP is sending out in Georgia for our special election (not my photo): "You'll let the liberals win," like this is nothing but a damn sports game or something. Classy.
  9. Someone thought "What if Edge of Tomorrow was a slasher fic?" and we got this. Looks silly:
     

     

    1. Legosi (Tani Coyote)

      Legosi (Tani Coyote)

      ...I mean

      It's a neat concept if nothing else

  10. My worry about "General" or "Miscellaneous" threads is that they will inevitably become de facto megathreads anyway, as they're going to act as a hub for all levels of news of a range of different subject matters. They would need to be clearly defined with updates that are and aren't allowed to be posted as "news."
  11. It's a cute song to me; gives me cheesy Sonic R-ish vibes. It just...doesn't really fit?
  12. There is no need for subforums per game. They require administrative oversight to implement and change/delete every time we get a new game, as well as a willingness to dump the topics after release, and for now we don't feel like dealing with that. Topics generally have the name of the game that's being discussed, meaning you can visually sort them yourself. Major news updates will always bump threads or warrant the creation of new ones, allowing members to get to news just as quickly, if not quicker, than that news being buried in a giant thread of thousands of replies. If you're not interested in Forces, don't go in threads blatantly marked about Forces.
  13. Well, what I mean is, your weapon should simply be compatible with any Wisp in any given level. In fact, you would think that having Burst Wisps in Park Avenue regardless of your gun's previous set-up, that this would be the case. Hell, you could do a Color Splash and have each given Wisp in a level its own energy bar a la the different primary colors of paint, and if you have any energy left for that particular Wisp, your weapon can use that specific power in the appropriate context. See a trail of rings? Light Speed Dash with Lightning. See a platform above your head? Start double-jumping with Burst. No need to worry about equipping weapons and whatnot to have access to that ability at all, especially with Red Rings back (the moment I can't get to a Red Ring because I don't have the right gun equipped, I quit). Instead, you worry about resource management and accurate use and timing with the Wisps on hand. In short, Avatar's access to Wisps should be treated as if they're a character that simultaneously has multiple abilities and yet limited energy to use them all, rather than a character who only has one ability at a time and requires tinkering to change. Simple. Quick. To the point. Sonic games.
  14. That...still doesn't seem ideal to me. If Wisps HAVE to be in every game from now on, they should all be fully open to use any time like the Elemental Shields.
  15. The idea that each weapon can only use one Wisp is a bummer, because the fact that they act like slightly-limited elemental shields that augment your movement without having to stop to activate them in highly contextual situations makes this technically their best implementation ever. I honestly hope that's not the case, or that your weapon changes on the fly when you pick up a different Wisp or something, because having to go back and outfit your Avatar with new gear in order to take some new path in a level is going to be tedious as fuck.
  16. I just realized we've reached the day where Mario is using guns in a real game, and most people are like "It's better than I thought it'd be."

    1. Wraith

      Wraith

      guns and lyrical themes and human NPCs that talk tto you and give you side missions and older obscure side characters returning and having roles and  JESUS FUCK

    2. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      Well when you two put it that way...damn

    3. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      but it's mario so it doesn't matter

    4. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      It's ok, Mario ain't as kewl as Sonic.

    5. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      So when are we getting a Mario game with avatars?

    6. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      You mean when are they going to add Miis into the main games?

    7. Rusty Spy

      Rusty Spy

      You call them guns but they may as well be super soakers for how cartoony they are

    8. Nepenthe

      Nepenthe

      They're guns.

  17. Yeah, I think the issue with their gameplay thus far is that, outside of the flamethrower and a Wisp(?), there doesn't seem to be any other way for Avatars to take out enemies quickly, and there's a ton of them on the field at any given time. This means players have been spamming the homing attack which makes the whole thing stilted and awkward and... just not fun-looking. A move/weapon with a wider field of damage is desperately needed here.
  18. To be fair, they said it would be enjoyable for people who were genuinely interested in the weird-ass character turns and reveals going on.
  19. Bitch where? So it was Japanese fans asking for this? We need to have a talk.
  20. We need to stop assuming that people who have come away with negative impressions about the game from prior marketing have effectively closed their minds off to any and all information that is revealed after the fact that could change their minds or increase their excitement, and thus they're "torturing themselves" by ironically waiting for news to drop that could potentially sway their impressions because they're keeping an open mind. We need to stop implying that the only people who should be allowed without this kind of finger-wagging to comment on new information that Sonic Team drops are people who were already excited about the game in question. We also shouldn't tell people that there's another Sonic game coming out because this doesn't actually address anyone's grievances with any particular game that they may have issues with. Finally, we should stop acting like the constant fights and moral condemnations towards those who have negative impressions of Forces, and the smug meta commentary on the community in contentious threads like this and the status updates that places the speaker above it all and condemns the community because some members had a negative reaction to a contentious piece of news, are actually doing anything to help the situation. The perceived problems of SSMB's cynicism are due to multiple things, the biggest of which- the fact that this forum is centered around a franchise whose parent company frequently makes dumb and illogical business and creative decisions with it- is entirely out of our control. Staff cannot do anything about the mere existence of people's honest emotions and reactions, and frankly we're not going to do anything about them. We are not about to forcibly create positive echo chambers for people just because people don't like the extent that other members' disappointment and anger in a given Sonic game. It is up to members to pick up the slack and learn to co-exist with others even if that means ignoring them, and to understand that any communication of a positive opinion is fair game for a negative one- knee jerk emotional reactions, non-constructive posts, all-caps posts, direct quotes, and all. If people can be excited beyond all belief, they can be pissed beyond all belief. With that being said, I've already outlined in this very thread and in the upcoming rules thread that this kind of moralizing about people with negative opinions is automatically strike-worthy for the foreseeable future for the reasons I've stated and more, so you're getting one automatically on this basis. We're not tolerating this behavior anymore. If you see someone actively breaking the rules, you need to report it. But if your issue is that people are being too negative for your liking, you need to ignore it. We're not going to babysit teenagers and adults.
  21. Me and staff were talking about Forces last night and I summed up my position like this: Forces is a Sonic game I may have designed under a mandate, but it was taken by a 12 year old who made all of these dumbass changes to it, and for some reason I had no choice but to agree to them. That's what makes me angry towards it. There's a lot in here for me to like either theoretically or in practice. I like that the game has a seemingly more competent and dogged Eggman and that there's tangible stakes. I like that the narrative asks for basic investment without crossing into embarrassing melodrama. I like that the extended cast beyond Tails is back and taking part to some extent (and subsequently I'm glad that we're back on a home planet, meaning it's harder to get out of not having them show up in these times of stress). I like that the only returning level we've seen has some significant aesthetic changes and new challenges that both make the level more worthwhile to visit again while simultaneously tying it into the narrative. I like the fact that we've gotten another playable character that's reasonably based on the modern gameplay's foundations rather than being a poor approximation of a different style altogether which, along with the Wisps, proves to me that there's been no objective reason why we've gone cold without someone else being playable for as long as we have. Finally, the game is graphically gorgeous, especially modern Sonic's level. All of this stuff appeals to me in a vacuum. I should be excited for this. But nearly all of it comes with some sort of catch, like I wished for this game on the world's trolliest genie. Story wise, the reliance on dimension-hopping and potentially time travel is aggravating. With our limited context, it feels like an over-complicated solution for a simple problem while also acting as justification to bring in a bunch of disparate elements and enemies from games past for the sake of thinly-veiled fan service, aka it's Generations 2: Dark Edition, the thing I didn't want. Furthermore, with so much random shit now in play as per yesterday's trailer, no way all of it is going to get the development it needs to really shine and come together in a simple, cohesive narrative. This story has practically been set up to fail, although I will happily eat crow if it's well-written. Finally, it feels like an appeal to that utterly dumbass rule in the Sonic Bible that says the modern and classic games are in separate dimensions now, hence why Classic Sonic is suddenly an alternate dimension version of Sonic and not his past self. Not only does this cement the separation between the two, meaning it's going to be that much harder for Sonic to get a single cohesive gameplay style that takes the best of both worlds, but it's literally so unfathomable to me that most people in Sonic Team felt backed into a corner on what to do about the fact that the franchise played with different art styles and locations in a single dimension/universe that I almost want the people responsible for this decision demoted or fired. I also don't like the fact that the established cast isn't playable yet again, especially in light of the fact that my Modern-lite alternative is instead the fucking Avatar. First, I'm not looking forward to sitting down and having to fiddle around with any kind of creation system in a platformer of all things, and I'm praying they have some pre-built designs to get me started so I can be done with it. Second, the species' abilities are boring and lazy as fuck- they're all based less in altering movement in really creative and appropriate ways and moreso in augmenting how damage is dealt or taken within a universal set of attack and movement parameters slapped onto the Avatar class, which only further brings down the reason to even have this for a fan community where no power or way of movement is off the table. Third, it once again legitimizes something from the fan community that arguably had no business being legitimized by the games proper in the first place, similar to how Classic Sonic is now a "different Sonic" and thus his gameplay ideals can have no meaningful crossover into Modern's, and I'm worried that this shit is going to stick and be a new permanent staple (which is another thing; I can't in good conscious buy this game and try to bite the bullet through the stuff I don't like without fear that me purchasing it is going to come across to Sega as an endorsement of everything within it.) Fourth, I personally have never given a damn about seeing my characters playable in a Sonic Team game proper. I want to play as Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow in a 3D platformer again; established characters with interesting power sets that are ripe for the picking if Sonic Team would just do it. Why I can't have that but Timmy McBob gets a whole character creation system to himself is beyond me. I seriously at this point just want either modern gameplay-only games that are three hours and thirty dollars instead, for every producer, director, and game designer of Sonic Team to be dismissed and to bring in some new blood who knows what the hell they're doing, or for the franchise to be given to someone else and for Sonic Team to disband- something drastic needs to change now. Current Sonic Team keep beating around the bush with design decisions that are as insane as they are boring in lieu of more elegant and creative solutions, and I'm tired of having to sift through the garbage just to appreciate the few bones tossed to me without any hint of care or passion. For fuck's sakes, Classic fans have gotten Mania and they seem to be utterly delighted. There's no excuse for this anymore.
  22. Since we're all talking about Mario, here's some New Donk City footage with Pauline, if you haven't seen it yet:
     

     

    1. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  23. @Sega DogTagz Now you know If Sega doesn't even come close to rectifying these disparate elements in this way I'm fucking you and Kishimoto up, right?
  24. I'm...I'm so sad because I'm getting suddenly hyped now for something I'm not even certain is going to happen. Goddamn you, DogTagz!!!
  25. I would be pretty happy with this, although what I still don't get is Sega's shoe-horning of alternate-dimension stuff.
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