Jump to content

Nepenthe

Retired Staff
  • Content Count

    27,301
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    200

Posts posted by Nepenthe


  1. 9 minutes ago, Teoskaven said:

    A common cliché is having a good character who was either a villain in the past or has questionable morality being on the new bad guys's side as a mole to spy its movements and taking the perfect moment to strike.
    You know, kinda like what Rouge was doing for the governament in SA2, so they're not even new to this.

    This is the only thing that sorta kinda makes sense, but it's pitting him directly against Sonic in a time of extreme duress. Like, a boss battle is going to be a waste of time.

    Just now, Mega said:

    Here's a thought.

    Perhaps it's not that Shadow has turned baddy again so much as... this is Shadow pulled from SA2, when he was still fueled by vengeance.

    Perhaps this is Chaos as pulled from SA1, before his rage was calmed.

    Generations Twoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    Just now, Whatever the WhoCares said:

    To everyone saying there's OMG NO POSSIBLE WAY Shadow could have a good reason for being evil, I dare you to think in terms of his character. To think like a writer. Shadow has always been more self-invested in Sonic, and even at his most heroic, he's always had a misanthropic streak. Couple this with the fact that we don't know all the details about the plot, and it becomes clear that there are multiple avenues for Shadow to have an antagonistic role. Hell, maybe he's a double-agent. 

    A good writer would've noted that "Hey, Shadow's decidedly ignored the whims of villains trying to court him several times over the course of his lifespan because he's developed into a guy who values both his agency and maintaining peace" and probably not have done this. His misanthropy also hasn't really been put to any callous action since SA2, and he was actually brainwashed back then. He's just a loner who nonetheless errs on the side that humanity is ultimately worth saving at the end of the day, even if it's just because it ensures his survival at the end of the day.


  2. 7 minutes ago, Soniman said:

    but.....they literaly gave one lol.

    the reasoning could be bad or good but there are reasons

    He didn't note any explanation. He specifically noted a good explanation.

    6 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

    That's Sonic Team's job.

    So you can't think of a good explanation either.

    Quote

    And I, for one, am willing to give them a chance. 

    ..... Why? What have they done lately to earn your trust over the writing?

    5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

    Brainwashed, undercover, etc. Or a different dimension version of Shadow doppelganger perhaps. We'll see when we actually find out the reason.

    I'm almost ruling brainwashing out because apparently he's "fighting for his own reasons," which suggests lucidity. Even so, that would be the best explanation, but it wouldn't be a particularly good one to me for reasons I stated earlier- Shadow's had a heroic alignment forever. We literally spent five years hashing that shit out. So for him to be a target for this kind of thing reeks moreso of just basic fan service of seeing Shadow constantly in an antagonistic role regardless of whether or not it makes much sense in the present day. Like, he doesn't belong there, and neither does Chaos in all honesty (really, how is this not Generations 2? It's nearly the same damn boss make-up as last time).

    And if it's a different dimension I'm just gonna get annoyed. Where's the real, present-day/dimension Shadow? We arguably haven't seen him since before Generations!

    They're going to have to pull off an Alex Hirsch-like narrative for me to give this shit the benefit of the doubt.

    5 minutes ago, BlueParadox said:

    I'm sorry but fuck the resistance

     

    UPRISING IS WHERE WE AT

    I have to admit this actually made me chuckle.


  3. 1 minute ago, Soniman said:

    were making assumptions that they degared Shadow to villian status despite plainly stating he has ulterior motives because?

    What ulterior motive could possibly justify Shadow fighting against Sonic in what is decidedly a clear-cut apocalyptic scenario when he has literally not done this since SA2?

    What, is he gonna pull a Benedict Arnold at the very end? Wow, that's compelling.

    I would honestly rather him and Chaos brainwashed by Infinite.


  4. 1 minute ago, Rusty Spy said:

    Because he was the bad guy in SA2.

    Exactly. This literally is Generations 2 but with some apocalyptic plot threads thrown over it to make it seem different enough. But at the end of the day, it's empty nostalgia for the sake of pleasing people who don't give a damn beyond that. It's annoying as hell.


  5. Just now, Jovahexeon Joranvexeon said:

    Hold on, was it confirmed time travel or dimension hopping? Seems to point more towards the latter with what we've seen so far.

    Classic Sonic being here and the new villain being named Infinite just give me bad-fucking-vibes. If it's "dimension-hopping," it's not particularly interesting dimension hopping. That's what Odyssey is for.


  6. It's not even just the difference in perceived quality.

    It's the difference in what you believe each style of game should try to accomplish.

    Forces could have the same gameplay, locations, CaC implementation, and nostalgia pandering up the wazoo we've seen so far but be polished and implemented in such a way that it was an actual contender for something, and I'd still be happier with just a fuckin' SA1 remake instead.


  7. 1 minute ago, SpongicX said:

    I honestly don't get why people are trashing Sonic Forces for nostalic throwback, while hypocritically sucking up to Mania for doing the exact same thing. I'm shaming both games for relying too much on nostalgic throwbacks, but I still hope both end up well.

    While I don't care for Mania for this exact reason and realize the bias is definitely obvious, you also have to understand that Mania exists because one set of people have been fighting for a true artistic and mechanical successor to Sonic 3&K for years, while another set of people have been fighting for the 3D games to at least regain an identity divorced from this kind of blatant classic pandering, and that understanding these differences in ideals for two different groups of people with two different standards being catered to with two different games doesn't make one hypocritical when reacting differently to classic nostalgia.

    There's also the fact that Mania seems to understand game design better and thus manages to contextualize its nostalgia as a natural part of its universe, while Forces is a mishmash of different ideas with far less cohesion with one another or in the context of its universe, meaning one can't help but feel Forces comes off more as made-by-committee than Mania does.


  8. Just now, Blue Blood said:

    A fair number of people have always been scathing of ill-conceived attempts to cash in on nostalgia. Generations is the only one to truly get a free pass because it was both the best main Sonic game to come about in years and as an anniversary celebration the nostalgia grabbing had a place. Not to mention it aimed to give a bit of nostalgia to fans of every part of Sonic's history. 

    Generations doesn't even get a free pass anymore because outside of the context of Sonic's birthday and the novelty of "Two Sanics!", and especially with Forces drawing even more comparisons, the cracks of the design are beginning to show. But the funny thing is a lot of these were expressed during a time when it was less kosher to criticize the game. Even in the throes of Sonic's birthday, people were hoping for far more to be done contextually with the recurring locations and bosses than what was done, which led to some pretty inane rebuttals and whatnot, not to mention the fact that it was apparent from video feed that Classic Sonic wasn't as good as his Genesis incarnation.


  9. 5 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

    My point is that SEGA fails to understand the understand why their games get praised or criticised beyond the most superficial reasons. They're continually just doing what the loudest voices say, without actually trying to make better games for it.

    I'm not denying that's true. I'm just wondering why people are acting brand new about this when this has been their mode of thinking for years. Various groups have demanded, been observed, and been directly polled about different ideas and Sonic Team has implemented them in ways that almost always come with a catch due to their own design sensibilities. But when it comes to classic-fueled nostalgia the conversation magically gets muddled about who exactly is to blame and people putting everything off on Sonic Team, and to me, it's a double standard. The same shit that led to ShtH is roughly the same shit that led to Forces, so either we should all be aware that we're kinda complicit in this, or we should all be willing to work together better in communicating exactly what we want, or perhaps both.


  10. 3 minutes ago, Gabe said:

    I really doubt people were specifically calling for another classic Sonic/modern Sonic teamup or to have Green Hill checkerboards become the staple opening stage for every new Sonic game going forward. I can see how praise over those elements can be misinterpreted / spun by Sega and/or Sonic Team to assume that's what people want, but I suspect the actual reality is a different picture.

    Generations was one of the most hyped and simultaneously acclaimed 3D Sonics since like Adventure 1, specificially because it was really nothing but easy nostalgia pandering, and as a result people were asking for DLC if not an outright sequel in earnest. So we can't even say most of what Forces has on offer is an actual surprise.


  11. 2 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

    The fans said: I don't like all these different characters with boring gameplay styles. I just want to play as Sonic!

    The fans said: Generations was good. I can't wait to see the next game, but I hope we get to play as other characters too.

    It's not my fault that SEGA is dumb.

    You assume quote 1 and quote 3 weren't and still aren't happening simultaneously. Hell, Classic Sonic fills the same niche as the Werehog but nobody gave a fuck because "he's so cute and reminds me of the old games!" It's such a technical compromise that it's actually sorta-kinda smart.


  12. Are we really wondering why the series is content in drowning itself in nostalgic throwbacks at the expense of sensible and exciting design with the material they had

    when most of the loudest criticism and positive feedback Sonic Team has gotten for years was to drown the series in nostalgic throwbacks at the expense of sensible and exciting design with the material they had?

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.