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Dr. Mechano

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Dr. Mechano last won the day on December 5 2017

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About Dr. Mechano

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    Living in a Robot's Paradise

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  1. Do you believe Sega will ever recant on the "classic and modern are separate worlds" thing and go back to the old single timeline?

    The impression I get is that most fans don't really like the split and see it as something that ultimately makes it harder to get invested in the series from a story/character perspective, since for either Sonic, a huge chunk of their adventures suddenly never happened/don't count anymore.

    1. PublicEnemy1


      I sure as hell hope so. I want my Hooligan bois back in IDW.

    2. Diogenes


      doubt it. the split doesn't even really matter, considering how little sega/sonic team cares about the series canon anyway. most likely we'll end up back with a single timeline because they'll just give up on maintaining the classic branch at some point

    3. SupahBerry



      Correction: Till they give up on maintaining the modern branch

    4. Sean


      It's possible, Sega seems to change their minds on a lot of things regarding these series. I still choose to ignore the split because it's dumb and doesn't make me enjoy the games any more, but I still kinda hate that it's a big part of the Sonic series' marketing despite not being reflected in the games.

      Then again I also like to think of (almost) every game being canon to each other and I've seen some pushback against this within the fanbase. Things tend not to contradict each other a whole lot in this series so I don't see how seeing Chaotix and the Game Gear games as canon at some point affects the overall timeline.

    5. Dr. Detective Mike

      Dr. Detective Mike

      It's possible but I've settled into my position of ignoring it because I don't believe it matters. Aside from a random line or two in Forces, the fact that this is the new status quo isn't something that's going to be explored at all. Most of what Sonic Team/SEGA say about the changes in the story are things that a casual fan would probably never find out about because of how little the games incorporate them into the stories. 

      There's also the fact that, despite the worlds supposedly being different, Modern Sonic still has a Green Hill Zone and a Chemical Plant Zone anyway. There's nothing stopping me from just assuming that what happened in the Classics still happened in the Modern world except with green-eyed Sonic instead. I don't see why not.

      On top of that, it's really only something that stands a chance at even being relevant should they explore the characters' past before the Adventure games (fat chance) or bring Classic Sonic into another Modern game again (heaven forbid). It's basically useless information otherwise.

      I'm more concerned about the much more egregious and ridiculous assertion that Modern Sonic's stories sometimes take place on a human-only world and an animal-only world. That right there just doesn't work, no matter how you slice it.  

    6. Your Vest Friend

      Your Vest Friend

      Hey, didn't expect the stickler to jump in like half a day later did ya.

      The split has technically existed for at least 15 years now. It's possible it goes all the way back to Adventure (as the two world split has been said to date back to) but we know evidence of it goes back to, at minimum, Heroes. 

      If they've kept that for over half the franchise's existence, have had it on the low up until very recently and haven't walked back on it even with a classic branch being formed, I doubt they'll ever consider it. 

    7. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Generations claimed that the classic games were events that took place in the past, not "another dimension."

      Furthermore, Sonic Adventure has classic iconography. The classic Sonic characters appear in the Casinopolis pinball game, and Eggman has likenesses of his classic design in the Hedgehog Hammer minigame. Also, in Sonic Pocket Adventure - released around the same era - Eggman actually wears both his classic and modern outfits over the course of the game. 

      SA1 was not a retcon of the designs, because the classic designs appeared in it. It's acknowledged that the characters used to look like that, and in the contemporarily-released SPA, both of Eggman's designs are used for the same character in the same game.

      To me that demonstrates that they were not thought of as separate at that time.

    8. Dr. Detective Mike

      Dr. Detective Mike

      There's no way all this was planned so long ago. They may have sprinkled in some non-commital "evidence" of these concepts in a few games but if this direction truly was the full and honest truth, the extreme level of incompetence it takes to hold that close to your chest for over 15 years almost makes me lose what little hope I have left.

      Though, again, the Classic Sonic stuff is easily ignorable. I'll just continue to assume the same locations exist (because Adventure and Forces prove they do) and the same events happened in the Modern world until they ruin it by telling us it didn't, contradicting even more evidence that it totally did.

    9. Your Vest Friend

      Your Vest Friend

      The generally accepted theory of modern Sonic (and canon, really) is that the main classic games happened in some form anyway. So nowadays the only real distinction are titles like SegaSonic the Hedgehog not happening in modern while happening in Mania and other such minor examples.

    10. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano


      I mean, SA1 basically had a flashback to Sonic CD at the beginning of Amy's story (using the modern designs but that just seemed more like laziness/not wanting to make new models than an artistic choice, especially since the classic designs are referenced elsewhere in the same game).

  2. imagine a timeline where Dic kept making Mario cartoons past Super Mario World.

    Imagine the ridiculous cartoon adaptation of Super Mario RPG, where Dic attempts an actual story arc (interspersed with jokes and musical numbers of course) and has Harvey Atkin's sneaky slimy portrayal of King Koopa teaming up with Walker Boone's Brooklyn tough guy Mario.

    What could have been.

    1. Your Vest Friend

      Your Vest Friend

      I'm trying to imagine Croco with a stereotypical gangster voice and it just makes me go "I'll stick with the Japanese Spanish accent, thanks".

    2. SupahBerry


      They'll get the people that did the DKC cartoon to do the 64 series.

    3. Vertical Snoop [D.K.]

      Vertical Snoop [D.K.]

      Super Mario's 64 Adventures (1997) is renowned for being the first CG cartoon based on a video game. 64 episodes (each for one of Mario's adventures mentioned in the title) across 2 seasons were planned, but parents calling in to the network and complaining about the show's disturbing primitive CG effects led to the cancellation of the second season.

      Little is known about the show, as only the first 4 episodes were ever released to VHS and no re-releases have surfaced since. It remains an enigma amongst the Mario fanbase.

  3. Super Mario Odyssey broke free of the franchise's "everything has to be NSMB-derivative" curse, with plenty of unique locations and characters, and even direct continuity with previous games  - one of Miyamoto's big no-nos.

    It makes me dare to hope that a proper Paper Mario sequel isn't totally out of the question anymore.

    1. SupahBerry


      The thing that makes me skeptical that PM could go back to its roots the same as the main, Tennis and Party series is that is regarding its staff at Itelligent Systems. The old staff got split up (Ryota Kawade seemed to voluntarily move on from directing and went on to make Project STEAM), and I don't count on the new people there moving away from the new formula they made.

      Part of my head wants to blame Fire Emblem for stealing its thunder since the 10s. They give it much more love and care, and should be more willing to share that effort with PM.

    2. StaticMania


      That was never a thing to begin with, so you might wanna hold-off on the hopeful business.

    3. JayRaR


      I can't believe I have to hope for a "good" Paper Mario game like hoping for a "good" 3D Sonic game


      edit: Also I think the generic Toads are here to stay unfortunately, with Toadette being the singular "girl" Toad for some reason

    4. Vertical Snoop [D.K.]

      Vertical Snoop [D.K.]

      At the same time though, like... Money talks. Tanabe knows everyone's going to absolutely blast the next game if it doesn't show any improvements, and he also knows he can't keep ignoring the fandom's requests forever if he values his reputation (especially after directly responding to fandom pleas with LM3). Their current philosophy is an temporary solution that can only keep them going for so long, with all the sustainability of a plaster on an open wound.

      It's not going to satisfy the casual soccerkids that don't know what a Paper Mario is because it's so overcomplicated, it's not going to satisfy critics if they learn nothing from their previous blunder, and it's sure as hell not going to please fans. There is literally no benefit to making another game that doesn't acknowledge the first two. The only people benefiting from it is Tanabe who seems to get off on the hatred directed at him like a fucking internet troll (not even the rest of the dev team shares his sentiment if certain rumours are to be believed).

      But I guess at the end of the day, when (or if) the next game gets shown, we'll see what Tanabe values more - his own self-indulgent enjoyment, or his reputation as a trustworthy developer.

    5. Cayenne


      The problem of Paper Mario isn't just Tanabe. If you read the Iwata Asks of Paper Mario: Sticker Star, you can see that Taro Kudo (Director of Sticker Star and Color Splash) wasn't very interested in a detailed story too:



      That project came together because of that idea. Kudo-san, you were in charge of the script, so what did you think about whether a story was really necessary or not?


      I originally saw it in a way that's similar to Miyamoto-san. Personally I think all we need is to have an objective to win the boss battle at the end of the game. I didn't think we necessarily needed a lengthy story like in an RPG. Instead, we looked at the characteristics of a portable game that can be played little by little in small pieces and packed in lots of little episodes and ideas. I always did like putting in little ideas, so I actually enjoyed it.


      Miyamoto isn't very active at Nintendo nowadays, but Tanabe and Kudo still are working on new projects. While I still expect the worst, I hope that Luigi's Mansion 3 is a sign of future changes for the series.

    6. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Yeah, Luigi's Mansion 3 in particular seems like a really good sign.

      After Dark Moon, I never expected to see humanoid/portrait ghost characters in the series again, and their return to LM3 is so exciting. They added so much character to the first game. And, importantly, they fall well outside the "standard platformer Mario character design" parameters that Nintendo stuck so hard to during the Wii U era.

      Combined with Odyssey, it makes me hopeful that Nintendo is loosening up a little on what can and can't be in a Mario game.

  4. Everyone who says "Toadette is the only female Toad" is ill-informed and should play the RPGs.

    1. PublicEnemy1


      Well, the later games kinda retconned that. For instance, the remake of Bowser's Inside Story removes all the designs of female Toads to look like regular Toads wearing an apron.

    2. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Nah, look at Toadley's intern right in front of Toadbert on the right. Even the 3DS remake didn't genericize everyone.


    3. SupahBerry


      Toads have no gender so they are both wrong

    4. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Toads have no physical sex.

      They clearly have something analogous to gender because they use gendered pronouns. (i.e. Toadsworth is a "he," while Chanterelle is a "she").

    5. PublicEnemy1


      Huh, interesting.

    6. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      It seems like what they did was just blanket-change all the nameless NPCs into generic Toads, but left all the named plot-relevant characters (Toadsworth, Toadbert, Toadley, Toadley's intern, etc.) alone.

      Even the generic red Toad in the apron is still called "Mom" by the kid in the intro, interestingly.

      I do wish they weren't on such a "make all the Toads super generic" kick, either way. I like the RPGs' unique character designs and didn't see anything wrong with them.

  5. ...did they ever say why Zavok was working for Eggman in TSR?

    1. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      I don't believe so. Zavok even mentions that he's not being paid, implying he's forcibly enslaved.

    2. Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice

      Jovahexeon Ogilvie Maurice

      I guess we can assume Eggman got another conch like he said he would.

  6. It looks pretty bad, but it's the fun kind of bad. Carrey as Eggman works a lot better than I expected. I think I'll have a good time watching it at least.
  7. Hm.

    I don't hate Jim Carrey as Eggman.

    1. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      If you're aware of his past work, this doesn't come off as surprising. Jim is made of ham.

  8. Sure, but couldn't they at least have made him bald? I think at the very least, getting the basic fundamentals of "Robotnik is bald, has a mustache, wears glasses, outfit is mostly red" would have ticked off enough of the right boxes to look close enough. Honestly, I don't even mind the Carrey design, but the hair (sans 'stache, obviously) throws off the whole thing for me.
  9. In some ways, the animals in Badniks raise other questions. Are the Badniks separate sentient consciousness of their own? Are they affected by the animal powering them, and if so, how much? (i.e., even if the animal influences the robot's personality, do they have some will independent of their power source?) I feel like it was at least implied that Gamma was being affected by the Flicky powering him, but to what end? Was Gamma just the bird's residual memories, or was Gamma a separate consciousness that was affected by the bird? ...Is Omega - a member of the same E-series - also powered by an animal?
  10. Eggman loves his robot son.

    1. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      Oh hey, look who's back.

  11. It isn't often, but on some nights I hear intermittent scratching near the skylights.
    I know that this probably just means there's a raccoon or squirrel on the roof, especially since I only hear it from these specific spots and not the entire ceiling. But the paranoid part of me worries something's in the attic.
  12. Honestly, I want Geno less because of the character himself and more for any acknowledgment of the Mario RPGs outside of their own games/subseries.

    If Geno appears in a non-RPG game, then there's a greater chance (however slim, still) of seeing characters like Goombella, Prince Peasley, or the BiS Bowser minions, etc. in other games too.

    Hey, the first Paper Mario's Goomba King and Star Spirits got appearances outside of the Paper series, so it's not entirely out of the realm of probability!

    1. Forte-Metallix


      If it means getting less Toads in spinoffs, I'm in!

  13. Reminder that Eggman trains with Metal Sonic by physically fighting him:


    1. Harkofthewaa



      We think that Eggman built Metal Sonic to defeat Sonic, but in reality he needed someone who could keep up with him during his morning jogs.

  14. Well, I don't consider SA2 a dark story. I consider it a story with dark elements. And it's not a particularly great story, but it's also not offensively bad - which is more than I can say for Shadow, 2K6, or Forces. SA2 is, for the most part, still just a game about stopping Eggman from taking over the world. It's full of colorful robots, goofy-faced ghosts, a pyramid base full of Eggman's mug slapped onto ancient Egyptian artwork, and fairly lighthearted character interactions throughout. (Oh yeah, and rap songs about Emeralds. Can't forget those.) Really, only the finale (and a couple of flashback scenes with Shadow) offer these "dark" elements. The game doesn't wallow in them and get up in the player's face about how sad and serious it's trying to be, and on that front, I think SA2 did a much better job than later games in the series that aimed for a similar tone.
  15. I don't have anything against "mature/dark" elements. I think, done right, they can add tension or drama to a story and help build investment in the characters. Mario's done it well (Thousand Year Door and Super Paper Mario), Mega Man's done it well (The X/Legends series and even certain installments of the classic series), and even Sonic's done it well on occasion (Sonic Adventure 2). Indie hits like Undertale have done this very well. But in all of these examples, the entire game wasn't one long drawn-out humdrum edge-fest without any levity. These games knew how to mix in lighthearted elements, and at times outright comedy, to prevent the mood from getting too dour. The light silly fun stuff helps us to get attached to the world and its characters, so that when we do get slammed with the darkness and sad themes later on, we're more invested and more likely to care about what's happening. The problem is, Sonic Team just can't find that happy medium. It's either constant (and usually bad) jokes, or it's constant (and usually unintentionally funny) drama. This series is really bad at finding a nice balance between the two extremes, which is what I think they need if they expect people to take their "serious" stories, well... seriously.
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