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Dr. Mechano

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Everything posted by Dr. Mechano

  1. It's a bit more complicated than that for me too. I for one really liked Eggman in Adventure and especially in Adventure 2. He was playable and got some good character development, plus insight into his childhood and family. And I do miss things like that. I'd like a nice balance; Frequent "Eggman as main villain" games and frequent "Eggman as anti-hero/temporary ally" games could give us the best of both worlds with this character. My issue is that much of the 00s after Adventure 2 left Eggman in kind of a lame limbo where he didn't really get either. In games like Heroes for example, he was neither an active villain or hero. He was just a victim on the sidelines without much presence, and I just kinda felt like the franchise didn't really have a place for him for a while. Colors broke a long streak and at the time was quite welcome. Now? Honestly, ten years later I'm in the market for another Adventure 2-esque game. I want another game with a more quiet, thoughtful Eggman. One who - as something other than the main villain - gets a chance to show off some of his more heroic and sympathetic qualities. It's not a "grass is greener" thing either; I genuinely do appreciate both aspects of the character, and would love to see them with some regularity, without over-focusing on one or the other.
  2. Sonic Colors was actually a very historically important game for Eggman fans. It was the first 3D platformer (except for arguably 3D Blast, depending on how you want to define "3D") to feature Eggman as the main villain and final boss. After a solid streak from Adventure through Unleashed of Eggman being sidelined by other baddies (though not without some good times, like his playable appearance in SA2), the Doc finally reasserted himself as the big bad at the end of a 3D Sonic game. It may not seem so special nowadays, but in 2010, after 12 years of only getting the occasional handheld final boss spot, that was a pretty big deal. But that's just the concept. How's the execution? Honestly, I'd say it's a mixed bag. Eggman, Orbot, and Cubot were genuinely really funny and likable. I feel like Pontac and Graff don't have quite as good a grasp on the heroes, and made Sonic and Tails just a bit grating. I don't think I minded them as much as some people here did, and it's far from their worst showing; Tails got far more irritating in Lost World, for sure. But I do think these writers don't really get how to write Sonic or Tails. Whereas they pretty much nailed Eggman, and elevated him from a mismanaged background character to the front-and-center villainous ham he was meant to be. The entire game taking place in his gaudy amusement park, with hilarious taunts and one-liners blasted over the PA system in every level? Yes please. So while, objectively, Colors is rough around the edges and kinda bungled its depiction of the main characters... I just can't be too bothered by that in light of how great this game was for Eggman, both in its historical context and in how it depicted him in-game. I'll always look at Colors' story fondly as an Eggman fan, as it marked the end of the doctor's dark age. And to me, that's always worth celebrating.
  3. I don't really think Classic Sonic should have been silent. He had voice clips in Sonic CD, and even a few lines of text dialogue in Sonic 3D Blast.

    It's not a dealbreaker or anything. I still enjoyed Generations. It's just weird that only he's silent, while Classic Tails and Eggman get to talk.

    1. Little T

      Little T

      I feel like they should have gone all in and had Classic Sonic talk or had every classic counterpart mute. They didn't need to have Classic Tails talk on his behalf, I think they were just afraid of telling a story solely with silent acting and chickened out.  Either that or they were afraid of defining an official voice for Classic Sonic. The result is a bit lacklustre.

  4. On the one hand, very happy to get 3D All-Stars.

    On the other hand, no Galaxy 2. :(

  5. You know, I don't like how Green Hill is on a big continent-sized landmass and not anything that could plausibly be called South Island in Forces.

    1. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      bEcAuSe ThE pHaNtOm RuBy PuT iT tHeRe

  6. Mania brought us something long overdue: Another vocal theme for Eggman. 

    E.G.G.M.A.N. is fantastic, but Metallic Madness Act 2 - a rap from Eggman's perspective - is no slouch either. 

    1. A wild west steam engine

      A wild west steam engine

      Well he is an evil doctor with a mad genius and rad minions

    2. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Does it count if it's a remix of an already existing lyrical theme?

    3. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      If it's got new lyrics, yeah.

      The original Metallic Madness Present and Bad Future had lyrics too - which were also mostly about Eggman - but Mania's version was the first new one of those since SA2. (The E.G.G.M.A.N. remix in Shadow - by contrast - is just a remix and not a new composition with new lyrics in the same way.)

  7. Obligatory: Sonic 4 is a bland, joyless experience for me. Episode 1 has no soul or originality. It just takes a bunch of zone and boss ideas from Sonic 1 and 2 and makes them worse. Episode 2 is clearly the superior of the two games, as it does have some original zone aesthetics and boss fights, but it's still a funky finicky mess full of bad level design and half-baked ideas. The game has the audacity to call itself Sonic the Hedgehog 4 despite demonstrating only the shallowest understanding of what made its predecessors great. The classic games were fundamentally about using momentum and physics to your advantage in order to achieve high speeds; Sonic 4 is just about being fast, with no regard to physics at all. Sonic loses all momentum if he rolls off a platform and can take leisurely walks up 90-degree inclines. The homing attack - a necessity in the Adventure games due to being so difficult to aim Sonic into enemies in 3D space - feels redundant and unnecessary in a 2D game as well. If any game deserved to be called "Sonic 4," it was Sonic Mania, the true successor to the Genesis originals. It innovates on classic Sonic gameplay - adding new abilities such as the Drop Dash and new playable characters (for a traditional 2D Sonic platformer) Mighty and Ray - while still sticking true to the fundamental gameplay mechanics that the franchise had built up to that point. Despite being mandated to use prior zones, it does some truly original and memorable things with those returning zones, giving their Mania incarnations identities all their own. Sonic Mania is not an imitation of classic Sonic. Not some hollow simulacrum that paints itself in checkered hills and neon pinball tables but neglects to actually emulate the core gameplay. It is classic Sonic, which is more than I can say about Sonic 4.
  8. It's money. You buy stuff with rings in the games; from fruit and eggs in the Chao World to upgrades from regular human merchants in games like Sonic 06 and Sonic Chronicles. Even story cutscenes and dialogue talk about rings as if they're just money. In Circus Park in Shadow the Hedgehog, Eggman "stole rings from all around the world" to finance his big dumb carnival. In the classic games, you bet rings on slot machines as well. They're just currency - currency that may have some energy or powerful properties to them, but currency nonetheless.
  9. Honestly, I think it'd be fun if they did add Sally, but - since she's the video game version of Sally and not SatAM or Archie - her only history with Sonic was briefly being rescued by him in Eggman's Veg-O-Fortress: Of course, she'd be pink as well, since that's the coloration she had in her original game appearance. She's probably not a princess in this universe. Probably not even someone who has a particularly close connection to Sonic. Just a bystander who got wrapped up in one of Eggman's zany schemes one time, who's back after years of absence.
  10. Eggman would be amazing. Like, look, Sonic Dash is just a fun whatever game without much of a story anyway, so I think it'd be fine to give us playable Eggman. Just have Eggman Nega or Heavy King or a regular Egg Robo or something replace the fightable boss if Eggman's the character you select. Maybe give him his jetpack from Sonic CD/Lost World to explain how he's doing all those crazy sick jump flips and stuff. We've already got playable Metal Sonic, so hey, villains are clearly on the table here. Give us Eggman! I think playing as Eggman in Dash would be an absolute delight.
  11. One thing I love about SA1 is just how many random things fall from the sky for no apparent reason:

    - The Wind Stone
    - The Ice Stone
    E-102 Gamma in Knuckles's story, in a scene that does not happen in Gamma's own story
    - The keycard to open Speed Highway
    - The Egg Carrier, which starts crashing before the Chaos 6 fight, so it wasn't even that battle that did it. I guess a huge city-sized airship's kind of a gas-guzzler.

    1. Wraith

      Wraith

      I always assumed Sonic Tails and Knuckles making a mess of things on Sky Deck is what caused the crash

    2. Rabid-Coot

      Rabid-Coot

      They retcon Cream in for the drops but that just shifts the question slightly.

    3. Plumbers_Helper

      Plumbers_Helper

      I'm going to headcannon it and say Tikal is the one that had Cream drop the Ice Stone and Wind Stone. The Japanese strategy guide for Sonic Adventure says this about Tikal:

      "She appears in the present world due to the Master Emerald's destruction where her soul was sealed along with Chaos. Her consciousness, which became a red sphere of light, is filled with a sense of duty of sealing Chaos again, but with her body gone, she has no direct means of doing so.
      Therefore, she appears before those involved with Chaos or the Chaos Emeralds (Sonic and friends), assisting them, and trying to make them do it on her behalf.
      Her showing of past events to them is her way of making them understand that intent."
       
      Since she's basically a ghost now that can't interact with the physical world anymore, it makes sense that she would need help.
       
      The guy in front of the building to Speed Highway explains he lost that keycard, but why it fell from the sky is anyone's guess. Maybe Tikal/Cream lending a hand again?

      @Wraith, it's the most likely explanation. You can even see the damage that you did to the Egg Carrier during Sky Deck in the cutscene it explodes in:
      (1:35 - 3:20)

       

    4. JezMM

      JezMM

      I do like the idea that DX retcons it so that Tikal was actually guiding Cream too through a bunch of odd little tasks but we just don't get to play as her lol.

       

      But hey that Sky Deck thing is pretty cool - come to think of it, considering how janky and simple the game can be in some places (I mean, without this video to clear things up, the scene-changes between acts in Sky Deck come off as completely random), it's actually pretty wild that they programmed entire portions of the stage to be as solid and consistent as any other stage as you travel across them but then break apart like that.

    5. Semi-colon e

      Semi-colon e

      All the things should have fallen out of the sky with that weird Atari sound that Sonic has when falling from... I think it's after the first Sky Chase section?

    6. The Tenth Doctor

      The Tenth Doctor

      I always took Gamma in Knuckles story as when he was in his Tikal flashback. So he was running along after catching Froggy but his mind was sent to the past, he was literally in autopilot.

    7. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Yeah, but where did Gamma fall from?

      At that point, he didn't have the jet booster yet, and the Egg Carrier had also not taken off.

    8. The Tenth Doctor

      The Tenth Doctor

      Autopilot is buggy, for some reason it lead him off a cliff. No idea honestly.

  12. Sonic was disguised as Lucinda there, so I feel like this marriage probably wasn't legally recognized. Although AoStH Mobius's law is seriously super dumb sometimes, so it's totally possible little things like "fraudulently impersonating the bride" wouldn't necessarily annul a marriage there.
  13. Echidnas: *do horrible thing, make Chaos angry*

    Chaos: *comes back years later and wants revenge*

    Echidnas: *all dead except one*

    Chaos: *sees humans* eh close enough

    1. E-122-Psi

      E-122-Psi

      In hindsight, Chaos probably rivals GUN as the biggest karma houdini in the franchise.

    2. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      M-Maybe.

      Chaos calmed down and stopped wanting to hurt people after Super Sonic directly rammed through his brain a bunch of times, after all.

    3. A wild west steam engine

      A wild west steam engine

      I thought it was chaos that killed off the echindas in the first place?

    4. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      He couldn't have killed all of them. Otherwise, how was Knuckles born as recently as he was?

      The echidna extinction had to have been within the last couple of decades.

    5. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      You got it wrong dude, it's more like 

      Chaos: Damn, I missed one. 

       

      In hindsight, it would have been real neat touch if Chaos singled out Knuckles in particular while working for Eggman. 

    6. Plumbers_Helper

      Plumbers_Helper

      @Pelvic WOO! engine

      Not all of the echidnas were wiped out, as explained in the Japanese Strategy Guide for Sonic Adventure.

      The End of Arrogance

      The Knuckles clan took a devastating blow from Chaos's attack, and their power weakens significantly. The surviving Knuckles clan suspended the Emeralds' altar area into the sky by the Master Emerald's power and lived there, bearing the duty of observing and protecting the sealed Master Emerald, so that an incident like this never happens again. They also left murals and inscriptions in the temple to communicate this incident to future generations. The Chao were also on the verge of extinction with the Chaos Emeralds lost, but mere numbers have managed to find lands with suitable environments and barely survive.

    7. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Totally agreed, Chaos having a specific grudge against Knuckles would have felt more personal and would have been really appropriate for the story.

      SA1 already focused on Knuckles' connection to Chaos's backstory, giving him three Tikal segments instead of one like everyone else had, so it definitely feels like a missed opportunity.

  14. I've gotta give it to AoStH's Katella: - She's an intergalactic bounty-hunter. There's a ton of cool potential there and I feel like she'd be an absolute boon to the games. - She's greedy, brash, and strong. She travels around the galaxy for riches, bashing through any enemies or obstacles with her sheer brute strength. She's basically Wario as an attractive woman. - Has come the closest of any Sonic character to marrying Robotnik.
  15. I believe the Game Gear platformers, Advance, Rush, Mania, etc. should be considered main installments rather than spinoffs.

    Spinoffs in my mind are games that either aren't platformers at all (Sonic R, Sonic the Fighters, Sonic Shuffle, etc.) or star a different character (Tails Adventure, Chaotix, Shadow the Hedgehog, etc.)

    The 2D handheld games + Mania have gameplay either inspired by or directly emulating the Genesis originals. They're full-fledged platformer adventure games. They are absolutely "mainline Sonic" in my mind.

    1. booblur98

      booblur98

      who doesn't consider mania a mainline game?

    2. JezMM

      JezMM

      I kind of seperate them into "Mainline Handheld Games" in my head, as their continuity sometimes snarls a little at the inarguable mainline console games (especially when it comes to cases like Sonic Colours or Generations where the events of the handheld version directly contradict the console version).

      Having said that, games like Generations or Advance 3 (and therefore by extension, Sonic Battle), depend on the mainline games to make sense narratively, so it's thorny either way lol.

    3. Wraith

      Wraith

      Battle, The Rush Games, and Chronicles kind of put the handheld games on their own track, but I'm able to rationalize it if I stretch things. 

    4. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      I just put Battle after ShTH since Shadow has all his memories back in that game.

    5. JezMM

      JezMM

      Yeah it's more the 8-bit games that bother me in terms of inserting them into main canon.  These random little inconsequential adventures kinda muddy a nice narrative flow of Sonic 2 into Sonic 3 into Sonic & Knuckles into Sonic 4 (or Mania, depending on timeline).  I guess 2 and Chaos can easily take place before 16-bit Sonic 2, but Sonic Triple Trouble and Sonic Blast using Knuckles and yet still 6 chaos emeralds feels weird.  But I guess it's easy to handwave the emerald stuff by just making a mental retcon that it was 7 but... old game weirdness who cares etc.

    6. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      A thought on that: In Mania, Heavy Magician disguises herself as Fang, Bean, and Bark - so I think it only makes sense that Triple Trouble and Fighters had to have happened for those disguises to have any meaning for our heroes. 

      Otherwise she's just pretending to be characters who have no connection to Sonic at all, which would be kinda weird.

    7. JezMM

      JezMM

      Yeah that's very true.  Although in that case, saying just The Fighters happened is easier than saying the whole Game Gear arc did.

      I won't lie, I want the 8-bit games to be canon!  Sonic 2 8-bit was my first Sonic game and still one of my faves.  I just hate how they have a bunch of inconsistencies lol.  I guess once the emerald thing is ignored, they don't have that much trouble fitting in though.

      There's just something funny about how much importance is put on the main saga of Eggman's schemes when he also had these other 8 or so times where he just built generic bases and did his usual "steal the emeralds, make badniks" shtick lol.  But then I guess that's just the minimalist storytelling of the handheld games making me put less importance on them when really there's no reason to!

    8. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      I feel like the Game Gear games could probably easily fit in between S3&K and Sonic 4/Mania, since I don't think those games take place immediately after 3.

      The heroes have some downtime between the first Death Egg plot, so Eggman decides to go back to the drawing board and commits smaller schemes like... kidnapping Tails, replacing Sonic's shoes with slow-down boots, making a... pinball fortress? Turning beans into robots? I think a witch showed up somewhere?

    9. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Sega never advertised them as "mainline" games though; I never saw a single commercial for Sonic Rush in 2005 and I found it completely by accident; all of the marketing went into Shadow at the time. 

       

      They feel more like "Companion" games; games that are just kind of their own thing, but don't directly impact what's happening in the main console games. Which is what makes Battle and Rush so damn weird because they have events taht directly reference the console games. 

       

       

      So heh, Sega was never too consistent. 

  16. re: classic vs. modern

    When I joined the fandom in the early 2000s, it was also heavily divided among Japanese vs. Western continuity fans, but I feel like that particular conflict's mostly died down.

    I still remember those days though. People had some very heated opinions on the character designs, Eggman vs. Robotnik, the name of Sonic's planet, etc.

    (Japanese continuity for me, by the way)

    1. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Because they essentially "lost" Western Sonic fans have been shafted for over twenty years, and Archie ending was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for them. 

       

      So they just went and made their own series. 

    2. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Archie gradually became more and more Japanese-influenced over time even before its cancellation too.

      Even before the Super Genesis Wave, I'd argue Ian Flynn made it a solid point to mold Archie into being more in line with the games. Which personally enjoyed, but I can understand why some people felt like they were losing something unique when it happened.

    3. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Sonic having such a diverse and varied franchise is both a blessing and a curse; sure, you got many diverse avenues to explore...but then you have people starting civil wars claiming "their" version of Sonic is superior to the other versions.

       

    4. Polkadi~☆

      Polkadi~☆

      As someone who grew up with Japanese Sonic thanks to starting with SA2, to the point that I watched Sonic X subbed (to my cluelessness as a child), it's obvious where I would lean towards.

      I have great respect for American Sonic, but Japanese Sonic always felt so much cooler and cuter.

    5. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      For me, the debates that were loudest for me were the "Adventure Cast vs 4Kids" along the ones that rant on how 4Kids somehow were responsible for dumbing down all the dark stuff in entire franchise (Heh, if only they knew) with Robotnik becoming Eggman, being a less menacing villian and all. All while at the same time people complained Sonic were getting too dark for its own good.

       

      It was around Sonic 4 that I learned people had preferences for design; I've never really notice these redesigns until that pointed it out to me.

      I could've gone my whole life without seeing anything in general and thinking how they're put through prejudices if I had never learned what prejudice and discrimination was in the first place.

  17. Honestly, the cape is probably half the reason I prefer classic Eggman. It just ties the whole outfit together.

    This may also be why - of modern Eggman's various outfits - I prefer his Riders look to his default jacket. His billowing scarf is kind of like a cape.

    1. Ferno

      Ferno

      Imo, what he lost with the cape, he made up for with the goggles

    2. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      I for one hardly notice that cape, or at least I unconsciously don't see it as one. It's shorter than capes that go down towards or pass the thighs, like SATAM's cape, so to me it usually looked more like some kind of bib or collar.  It's not often the games show him from the back where I could've gotten a better look at it.

    3. Plumbers_Helper
  18. Well, they've outright said it: No more age or gender differences for Mario NPCs. They all have to be completely indistinguishable clones of one another from now on.

    Meaning the diverse world of characters has pretty much been confirmed to be retconned out.

    My investment in Mario as a body of fiction is gone. I'll still play the (good) games for the gameplay but the world/characters/story element has completely lost me at this point.

    1. KHCast

      KHCast

      Well the movie should be interesting if this mindset applies to that 

    2. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      At this point I'm half-expecting the movie to have no dialogue and just be a bunch of shots of Mario jumping.

    3. Monkey Destruction Switch

      Monkey Destruction Switch

      is this the Mario equivalent to Sonic's "two worlds" and "classic and modern are different dimensions" thing in terms of how much it destroys the world/continuity? because from your emotional response, that's what it sounds like (since that's basically my own response to those awful bits from Sonic)

    4. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      i don't really see why there's so much fuss out of losing, like...a small handful of different body types and accessories. there are still unique toads, they're just differentiated by clothing and actual characterization.

    5. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      The world feels less alive and less diverse. Major plot-relevant characters can't even get actual names anymore.

      I don't know, man. Imagine if they introduced a new animal sidekick in the new Sonic game and they were just called "Cat the Cat" or "Dog the Dog." Maybe some other character nicknames them, but they only ever refer to themselves by their species name. It'd be really dumb.

    6. Cayenne

      Cayenne

      I feel for Intelligent Systems and Tanabe. They are trying their best to make engaging Paper Mario games, but Nintendo isn't helping. Those last interviews sound like a very sad cry for help...

      Origami King's story and characters are far from perfect, but it's almost a miracle what IS was able to do with them if we consider Nintendo's dumb restrictions...Some parts of that game are almost on par with some moments from Super Paper Mario.

    7. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      Quote

      The world feels less alive and less diverse. Major plot-relevant characters can't even get actual names anymore.

      I don't know, man. Imagine if they introduced a new animal sidekick in the new Sonic game and they were just called "Cat the Cat" or "Dog the Dog." Maybe some other character nicknames them, but they only ever refer to themselves by their species name. It'd be really dumb.

      sonic and mario have always handled their characters differently so i don't think this is entirely a fair comparison. but if there was some minor sonic character like, a cat called doctor katt or something...i honestly wouldn't be that bothered? i mean hell the avatar character never got a name and that's not really been a problem aside from the minor awkwardness of how to refer to them. and it's not like mario is doomed to never have anything but nameless toads; origami king also gave us the origami siblings, with their names and unique designs and all. and they've got captain toad out there having a whole game to himself, even without a "real" name, and i don't feel like that made him any less of a character.

      i just feel like 99% of toads were already samey and forgettable and only the few that actually mattered stood out, which hasn't really changed.

    8. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      While that's fair, "Katt" is at least a proper name that's spelled differently from the species name. Like, it wouldn't take that much to make me happy. If Bob-omb's actual name had been Bobby or Bob or something other than just "Bob-omb" it'd be fine.

      What this stipulation means, though, is that many of those few Toads who stood out can't really appear anymore. Toadsworth - despite debuting in a mainline platformer game - has an appearance differentiated by his age, and he's been conspicuously absent for a while now, the M&L 3DS remakes aside. He doesn't fit the "standard Toad mold" and ergo he's likely been axed. 

    9. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      Quote

      While that's fair, "Katt" is at least a proper name that's spelled differently from the species name.

      origami king's got a "Captain T. Ode". that much, at least, is within the rules they've set.

      Quote

      What this stipulation means, though, is that many of those few Toads who stood out can't really appear anymore. Toadsworth - despite debuting in a mainline platformer game - has an appearance differentiated by his age, and he's been conspicuously absent for a while now, the M&L 3DS remakes aside. He doesn't fit the "standard Toad mold" and ergo he's likely been axed. 

      i think it's a little early to assume that. i mean, to my knowledge toadette hasn't stopped appearing and she's clearly gendered and has her own name.

    10. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Yeah, T. Ode is fine.

      I still wish they'd let the designers have more creative freedom with appearances though.

    11. Solly
    12. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Like, I get that it's hyperbole and a joke, but I will say that's not entirely fair. Color Splash and Origami King had a little more variety than Sticker Star but it still pales in comparison to the older Toad designs.

    13. StaticMania

      StaticMania

      Where's SPM in that pic with its "One" Toad?

    14. Plumbers_Helper

      Plumbers_Helper

      Man, it really stinks to have to go through with this yet again with Mario. First it was the retconing of the Koopalings so they are now just minions of Bowser instead of his children, then it was Miyamoto's desire to remove as much story from the games as possible starting with Super Mario Galaxy 2 which would of course influence the direction of Paper Mario Sticker Star, then we got another pointless retcon that changed it so Mario and Paper Mario are now two completely different characters from different dimensions...and now this.

      We may never get another epic story in a Mario game again. But the memories we have, of what once was, will likely last us a lifetime.

      Timpani...do you remember the promise we made to each other that day?
      Yes, I remember...if there was a place we could be happy together, we would find it.
      Will you come with me to that place now?
      Blumiere...Of course...I will always be with you...

       

    15. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      And people complain Sonic's cast is littered with recolors. Those biggest "offenders" are merely a few of several other characters of proportional and characteristic variety; no two Sonic character look and act the exact same. Where as the best Mario can afford anymore for supporting characters is Blue Toad, Green Toad, Orange Toad, Pink Gold Toad, Toad in a cowboy hat, a crayon box, hyperrealistic NPC man, and Mr. Mook. And having characters appear from spinoffs outside of sports games is out of the question.

       

      It's clear who the victor is here.

      maxresdefault.jpg

      His stories may be hit and miss, be the key thing is that he tries.

       

      The Nintendo higher ups have let their Mario in RPGs bias get the better of them, and overriden Paper Mario to steer away from those aspects while leaving M&L in the dust. Especally baffling when most every other spin off Mario seris gets to do what they want without issue.

      Quote

      i think it's a little early to assume that. i mean, to my knowledge toadette hasn't stopped appearing and she's clearly gendered and has her own name.

      @Diogenes

      From the beginning Toadette's entire purpose is to be the female counterpart of the main Toad character, and consequentally be the token Smurfette in a society of Smurfs, making her the sole excuse to the Toad mandate. You're unlikely to go as far with someone like Old Toad vs Girl Toad. 

    16. Your Vest Friend

      Your Vest Friend

      I'm pretty sure they're not that restrictive. Even for Nintendo, that would be ridiculous.

      *looks it up*

      ...fucking lmao

    17. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      Quote

      From the beginning Toadette's entire purpose is to be the female counterpart of the main Toad character, and consequentally be the token Smurfette in a society of Smurfs, making her the sole excuse to the Toad mandate. You're unlikely to go as far with someone like Old Toad vs Girl Toad. 

      toadette is girl toad, toadsworth is old toad, i don't see what the difference is.

      anyway this is an actually-accurate comparison of toad designs between games; clearly the guidelines changed between them but it's not "literally nothing but red toad" as people pretend.

      I5aYRWT.png

    18. Wraith

      Wraith

      This is bigger than what types of Toads we're allowed to see and anyone who's played the older games would know that. A Toad never actually made it into the party in the first 2 games specifically.

      Goombella is one of my favorite Mario characters. She would literally not make it past the conception stage under Nintendo's current restrictions, which is pretty frustrating to think about. 

    19. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Diogenes, which design conventions do you personally find more interesting though?

  19. I guess Sonic's brothers also made it in before the "no family" mandate was issued: They seem like a couple of regular guys who prefer solving puzzles to going on adventures, and that's why they haven't shown up since 1992.
  20. Yeah. I'm just glad they got Professor Gerald and Maria in there before that mandate was slapped down. I assume they're (heh) grandfathered in.
  21. You know, I've gone back to read the old 4-part "Genesis" story arc (#225-228), where the Genesis Wave rewrote reality once and - that time - temporarily. And I'm honestly really intrigued by some of the differences in that temporary universe. In the final Archie universe established by the Super Genesis Wave, Snively is no longer related to Eggman at all. He becomes Julian Snively, his familial ties to the Doctor gone in this reality. But the first time the Genesis Wave was used? They were still related, and had what may have been the only instance of Snively actually looking up to Robotnik as an uncle and not just as his mean boss. Examples: He defends his uncle's brilliance to Sonic, and even affectionately calls him "Uncle Eggy." This clearly isn't a Snively who hates and fears the Robotnik he works for, as his counterparts in SatAM and Archie's original universe did, but a Snively who sees Ivo as family. This short-lived universe was the one time in all of Sonic media where Robotnik and Snively had a somewhat healthy family dynamic. For such a small and lightly touched-upon detail in the grand scheme of the 4-parter, I just find this idea of Eggman as an actual good uncle and mentor (well, "good" relative to Julian openly abusing Snively, anyway) really intriguing. I understand why we didn't spend more time in this universe, but I still kinda wish we had.
  22. SPP kind of makes the plot of Sonic Colors hilarious, considering that Eggman already had the capacity for much more effective and long-lasting mind control before harnessing the Wisps.
  23. Like many of you, I got totally blindsided by Eggman throwing Amy under the bus after she saved him. Eggman's this unpredictable character who sometimes acts like an affable, gentlemanly scientist with a code of honor (leaping to save Tails in Lost World, rescuing Sonic from certain death in Sonic 2 8-bit, etc.) and sometimes he's just a total self-centered bastard, and somehow neither feels contradictory or out of character. Because you can never really tell what he'll do, I always root for him to do the right thing and feel disappointed and even kinda mad at him when he doesn't. That's not a bad point to the writing at all, mind you! The fact that Ian's able to make Eggman likable enough that acts like this still feel shocking instead of totally expected is actually something I like.
  24. No more original Goombers and Koopers. :(

     

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