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Dr. Mechano

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Posts posted by Dr. Mechano

  1. 1 minute ago, Sega DogTagz said:

    I'd be all for that. Lah would be a perfect mid level antagonist. I could easily see her antics tangling up Sonic and slowing him down. Her short sighted goals of latching onto him keeping him from moving onto things he needs to be doing. Not every villain needs to be life threatening. She'd fit that bill nicely.

    Plus she seems to have some extra powers on hand, like shapeshifting and she is a ghost, so there is a lot to play with there.

    Yeah, Lah strikes me as really versatile. I could see her being a good-natured antagonist or an ally depending on the situation.

  2. So let's talk about some of the more antagonistic female Sonic characters:

    Witchcart: The Sonic game series' first female villain, a kooky old lady who - according to the manual - claims she can turn all who oppose her into crystal. Hilariously, she never actually does this in-game, and a part of me wonders if she's actually a witch at all or just a totally normal old woman who rides around in a mine cart. She got adapted into the Archie character Wendy Naugus, and was pretty funny there too. 

    Lah the Ghost: Definitely wouldn't call her a villain, but still kind of a troublemaker, as she sends her henchmen to chase after Sonic and capture him - on film, that is. Similar to Amy, she seems to have a bit of an infatuation, but it's less committed and less serious, since she's satisfied with just a photo. I really like Lah, honestly; For such a minor character, she provides a really fun, lighthearted sort of low-stakes obstacle for Sonic that we normally don't usually get to see. Would love to see her again.

    Heavy Magician and Heavy Rider: I love all the Hard-Boiled Heavies, so of course these two get a mention - especially Heavy Magician, since she's my favorite of the lot. Anyway, I like that Magician and Rider are just kinda incidentally female. Unlike, say, Zeena, they aren't treated differently and not much of a big deal is made of them being girls. 

  3. 4 minutes ago, Tara said:

    Like I mean what?  Did you expect her to say "Actually, Sonic, I only like you for shallow, superficial qualities that I vaguely admire but will quickly discard as my interests develop with age?"

    I think the point might be that the sentiment she claimed she never got across in Lost World could be seen as having been expressed in Unleashed.

  4. 7 hours ago, Tara said:

    And while I agree the continuity of the games has never been fantastic or even remotely serviceable for that matter, I can kind of shrug off the inconsistency between Black Knight and Lost World as products of two different teams with two different creative goals.  They're both canon in the same sense that cheesy golden age comics are still considered canon to the modern, edgier counterparts, but it's obvious they weren't developing any game from Colors onward with the previous games as more than a cliffnote in the game's world.

    Sure, but forget comparing Lost World to Black Knight. Compare Lost World to all of the past games where Amy had dialogue - or even some games where she didn't, like Sonic CD.

    She's super blatant about how she feels about Sonic. She's publicly in love with him, straight-up tells him she wants to marry him multiple times, and makes absolutely no effort to hide how she feels. "I never got the chance to say..." is a weird way of saying "Sonic, I literally say this all the time."

  5. 44 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

    One of the things I've pondered about as of late is revisiting the Industrialization vs Nature aspect of the franchise and visiting it more so from a wider spectrum than the industrialization bad, nature good.

    Sonic CD is a great example, actually.

    All the Good Futures are still more technologically advanced than the present; but use clean technology that exists in harmony with nature, rather than at its expense as in the Bad Futures.

    CD really was a great example of positive industrialization, and fairly early in the franchise's history to boot. 

  6. Sonic having a proper rogues gallery of recurring villains - of whom Eggman would be one of many - could address some of these concerns.

    As it stands, any time a new villain does come along, they almost always get killed/sealed/redeemed/otherwise neutralized and never come back as a villain ever again.

    They could always dig up some of the classic non-Eggman villains like Witchcart, Great Battle Kukku, or Fang. Or the next time they introduce a new one, have them actually get away so they can come back for future schemes.

    One-and-done villains don't really have time to grow or develop an identity within the greater series. 

  7. To be fair, I thought he was plenty intense in Mania.

    He even got betrayed by one of his minions but didn't get sidelined as the true final boss - instead turning the big ultimate final fight into a three-way tussle between Sonic, Eggman, and Heavy King. That's an interesting way to do a new antagonist on equal footing with Eggman without having to go totally knock him aside.

  8. 2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

    But as you said, him and Sonic never fight directly and Eggman only has one stage in the second half of the game after Prison Island to Shadow's two.

    He still has more stages than Shadow, total, though. It's just that most of his are earlier on.

    Either way, he is still given a lot lot of focus in the story and I maintain that t's one of his best appearances to this day, despite - and maybe partially because of - him not having the coveted final boss position.

  9. 2 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

    I'm guessing since the 3D games are more story focused, they don't want Eggman's appearances to play themselves out. The flipside is that you see comparatively less of him

    SA2 managed to balance this, interestingly. He appeared pretty sparsely in the Hero story, taking a backseat to GUN's forces and even Shadow himself as Sonic's direct major obstacles - but can arguably be considered the main character and driving force of the dark story, being fully playable himself and actively directing the other two playable characters in a number of stages.

  10. 37 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

    He faces you twice...at most.

    In each 3D game besides Heroes.

    Let's see, actually... Will bold all games that have more than two, just for funsies!

    Sonic Adventure: 3 (Egg Hornet, Egg Walker, Egg Viper)
    Sonic Adventure 2: 2 (Both Tails character battles)
    Sonic Heroes: 0 (That was Metal Sonic, not Eggman.)
    Shadow the Hedgehog: Only 2 unique boss mechs (Egg Breaker and Egg Dealer), but is fought 6 times
    Sonic 06: 1. Eggman only fights you directly in the Egg Wyvern. Cerberus and Genesis are autonomous robots he sends after you.
    Sonic Unleashed: 6 (Egg Beetle, Egg Devil Ray, Egg Lancer, Egg Dragoon, and two separate battles against the Egg Cauldron)
    Sonic Colors: 1 (Egg Nega Wisp)
    Sonic Generations: 3 (Death Egg Robot, Egg Dragoon, Time Eater)
    Sonic Lost World: 1 (Final Boss)
    Sonic Forces: 2 (Eggmobile/Egg Dragoon, ultimate Death Egg Robot)

    So yeah, you're right. With very few exceptions, the 3D games limit Eggman to two battles or less, which pales in comparison to the wonderful variety of boss mechs he usually breaks out in the 2D titles.

  11. 2 minutes ago, Badnik Zero said:

    The closest we have had to this concept might be Shadow, which is bizzare.

    He was still stringing Eggman along in SA2 so he could destroy the world though.

    We did see a genuine mutually-respectful partnership between them in Sonic Rivals 2, although both of them were acting in a heroic role in that game. Like I said, despite it being Shadow's and Metal Sonic's episode, Eggman was really more of a character in that story and it felt more like a partnership between Shadow and Eggman with Metal Sonic acting as Eggman's proxy. The cutscenes were mostly Shadow and Eggman talking with each other and working together, etc.

  12. How about a monster that actually likes Eggman? Monster doesn't betray Eggman, Eggman doesn't betray the monster.

    They just genuinely form a villainous friendship and actually hit it off well with each other. It could be some good character development for Eggman while also bringing in a fresh new villainous face.

    Infinite doesn't really fit this, since Eggman does the whole "You have failed me" thing to him in the end. 

  13. I'm actually totally fine with Eggman not being the villain...

    ...if he's a fully playable character actively fighting against the new villain and gets to shine as a badass villainous anti-hero, a la Bowser in some of the Mario RPGs.

    It could totally work in a way that doesn't depart too much from standard Sonic gameplay too; Look at the way Ray and Mighty got all new movesets in Mania that still stuck true to the base Sonic formula. Just give ol' Ivo a suit of power armor rather than a big bulky mech, throw in a unique move or two, and bam! He's ready for some speedy 2D and/or 3D platforming action that still feels like standard Sonic gameplay.

    My problem with Eggman in Heroes/Shadow/2K6/etc. wasn't that he wasn't the main villain; It's that he was sidelined almost entirely and barely got to do anything cool. Games like Sonic Adventure 2 or Advance 3 had him sidelined as the main antagonist, but also made him playable to varying degrees, and I l liked those scenarios a lot more. Rivals 2 gets an honorable mention of sorts; While Metal Sonic is playable rather than Eggman himself, pretty much all of Metal's cutscene dialogue is Eggman speaking through him, and it's more his story as he works with Shadow to stop Eggman Nega through Metal Sonic, which makes the game kind of a "half playable appearance" in a sense.

    Either way, more stuff like that. Less stuff like locking him in a room where he does nothing for the entire game.

  14. 1 hour ago, batson said:

    I should say though that I am in the same boat as you, since I also used to have rather strong opinions on the franchise that I've lately loosened up on. I guess once you reach the age of 30, somehow a fictional universe and the fictional people in it doesn't seem quite as "serious" a thing as it did back when you were a young lad with a head full of imagination. :P

    There are works of fiction that I do still think are well-written and fleshed out, and am still able to get really invested in. Sonic just isn't one of them.

  15. 7 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

    Focusing on the core gameplay to the exclusion of spinoffs doesn't mean much of anything as it is given just how badly mismanaged the franchise is. They could literally do nothing but focus on the main game only and it still wouldn't fix their lack of ability to actually create a core gameplay worth a damn.

    I agree with this too.

    Granted, me saying that Sonic Team doesn't know how to make video games anymore isn't exactly a surprising opinion.

  16. "Sonic needs to fix its core gameplay before worrying about spinoffs" whenever the topic of games starring other characters comes up.

    I disagree with this because Sonic Team doesn't have to divert resources to spinoff games at all. A game starring one of the other characters (like, oh just spitballing here, Eggman) could easily be outsourced to some other team (as they did with Traveler's Tales, Dimps, and others for certain games) while Sonic Team continues to focus all their resources on the next big main-series title.

    I think, in light of that, talking about and/or wanting to see weird experimental spinoff games in the series is a valid pursuit. They wouldn't have to cut into the main series' focus or resources at all.

  17. What I find hilarious is that SonAmy just kinda happened without much fanfare back around 2009.

    Sonic and the Black Knight outright says that Sonic and Amy had a date planned. They're just dating in that game, and the series never really showed their relationship transition from "one-sided crush" to "officially dating." We're left to assume it just kinda happened off-screen.

    ...And then a few years later in Lost World, Amy implies that she's never even told Sonic how she feels about him at all ("I never got the chance to say..."), so a big shrug for the franchise's continuity I guess.

  18. There are people who still play Sonic games sometimes - and then there are active fans who enjoy spending time discussing the intricate minutiae of the series, making fan-content, speculating about the franchise's future, etc. I feel like that latter category just isn't as active or as optimistic as it used to be.

    Even some of us that are still hanging around the fandom just seem less invested or hopeful for the series at large than we were a decade ago. Just speaking for myself here, I've gone from someone who really cared about the characters and world of the series to someone who'll occasionally play the games if they're exceptionally good (like Mania) and skip most of the rest.

    But I think shifting from a hardcore fan to more of a casual appreciator has actually been good for me. I no longer get mad at this series when it does things I don't like. I no longer invest time and emotional energy into something I know I'll get diminishing returns on. If a Sonic game is bad, or if my favorite character is portrayed poorly, I can just go "Oh Sonic Team, you're so silly" and move on without being too bothered. It's certainly a healthier outlook than I had back in the day when I'd rage about how much I hated Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06, but continue to buy games that inevitably made me mad anyway. 

    I stick around because there are things about Sonic I still like. I like most of the classic games and Mania. I like the Adventure games. I like the Advance and Rush games. I like a lot of the multiplayer spinoff titles. Obviously, I like Eggman as a character and still find him entertaining - even if I don't think he ever had nearly as much depth or complexity as I used to always go on about. So even if pretty much every mainline 3D title since Heroes failed to win me over, there are still things I enjoy about the series and the fanbase, and because of that I'll never fully leave.

  19. 2 minutes ago, Plasme said:

    I know people here seem to hate sensible hearing about corporate decisions, but no, no you can't just put Eggman from the game and into the film. Look at virtually all adaptions of comics, cartoons, anime et cetera that have actually worked (mostly in the superhero category). If you put Wolverine in his comic appearance it would just look cringey to the vast majority of people, because only the absolute hardcore lunatics would push for such a sylised design to be used in a product which resembles real life.

    It's the same here. Eggman was designed to be in a cartoon environment, it's why he looks godawful in games like 06 which tried to make him look more realistic. If you adapted him in the most literal way imaginable then it would be a disaster. And it's not simply the case of 'the general public would hate it' (but they would), but a lot of fans like myself would be utterly turned off too.

    Think of making a cartoon or game into a film as a form of translation. It's hard to translate languages literally and some combinations really don't work. In some instances, you need adaption and localisation. Well, if you are going to make Sonic a live action movie (admittedly very dumb decision), you have to adapt him because otherwise it just doesn't translate literally.

    Sure, but couldn't they at least have made him bald?

    I think at the very least, getting the basic fundamentals of "Robotnik is bald, has a mustache, wears glasses, outfit is mostly red" would have ticked off enough of the right boxes to look close enough.

    Honestly, I don't even mind the Carrey design, but the hair (sans 'stache, obviously) throws off the whole thing for me.

  20. 9 hours ago, PeterPancake said:

    Always preferred the roboticization angle from the comics and cartoons because of the darker implications and the moral questions it raises

    In some ways, the animals in Badniks raise other questions.

    Are the Badniks separate sentient consciousness of their own? Are they affected by the animal powering them, and if so, how much? (i.e., even if the animal influences the robot's personality, do they have some will independent of their power source?)

    I feel like it was at least implied that Gamma was being affected by the Flicky powering him, but to what end? Was Gamma just the bird's residual memories, or was Gamma a separate consciousness that was affected by the bird?

    ...Is Omega - a member of the same E-series - also powered by an animal?

  21. 11 minutes ago, UpCDownCLeftCRightC said:

    Wow. There are still people who think Sonic adventure 2 was an example of a dark story done right. I thought for sure by now we'd all grown up and realized how stupid and poorly written that was. Even when I was 13 I thought that. And it's not even as low as this series has gone in that department.

    Forces wasn't written much worse than SA2, really. To distinguish the two I'd say SA2 was stupid but at least memorable in some of those parts, and Forces was stupid and almost completely forgettable.

    But the writing standards for this series in general aren't high. At best, they're generally okay. 

    Well, I don't consider SA2 a dark story.

    I consider it a story with dark elements. And it's not a particularly great story, but it's also not offensively bad - which is more than I can say for Shadow, 2K6, or Forces.

    SA2 is, for the most part, still just a game about stopping Eggman from taking over the world. It's full of colorful robots, goofy-faced ghosts, a pyramid base full of Eggman's mug slapped onto ancient Egyptian artwork, and fairly lighthearted character interactions throughout. (Oh yeah, and rap songs about Emeralds. Can't forget those.)

    Really, only the finale (and a couple of flashback scenes with Shadow) offer these "dark" elements. The game doesn't wallow in them and get up in the player's face about how sad and serious it's trying to be, and on that front, I think SA2 did a much better job than later games in the series that aimed for a similar tone.

  22. 7 hours ago, Tarnish said:

    Let's not kid ourselves: even if they attempted to do all that, the game would be crap if Sonic Team worked on it. Sonic Forces showed their interpretation and vision for a "mature/dark" story is Sonic not taking anything siriously and still cracking jokes, other characters not contributing anything worthwhile to the story even tho their lifes are also on the line and are simply shoehorned in there in an attempt to please fans. Their idea for different gameplay styles is "Sonic + Sonic + anybody else but not the characters people have been begging for". Even Crush 40 has lost it's touch if you ask me, their last few songs were just meh IMO.

    I don't have anything against "mature/dark" elements. I think, done right, they can add tension or drama to a story and help build investment in the characters.

    Mario's done it well (Thousand Year Door and Super Paper Mario), Mega Man's done it well (The X/Legends series and even certain installments of the classic series), and even Sonic's done it well on occasion (Sonic Adventure 2). Indie hits like Undertale have done this very well.

    But in all of these examples, the entire game wasn't one long drawn-out humdrum edge-fest without any levity. These games knew how to mix in lighthearted elements, and at times outright comedy, to prevent the mood from getting too dour. The light silly fun stuff helps us to get attached to the world and its characters, so that when we do get slammed with the darkness and sad themes later on, we're more invested and more likely to care about what's happening.

    The problem is, Sonic Team just can't find that happy medium. It's either constant (and usually bad) jokes, or it's constant (and usually unintentionally funny) drama. This series is really bad at finding a nice balance between the two extremes, which is what I think they need if they expect people to take their "serious" stories, well... seriously. 

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