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MidoChaosHedgehog

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  1. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to StaticMania in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    It's not weird to assume that it's just a similar adaptational liberty based on how the Giant Rings work.
  2. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Sonic Fan J in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    This is actually more of a reference to the Archie Comics than any game. Sonic in the games collects rings as health first and foremost, as a key to accessing bonus stages and powering his super forms second, as a currency in a lot of other games, and as a speed and acceleration boost in racing games. The Rings being used as portals and teleportation from place to place is more akin to the Warp Rings primarily used by the Echidnas in in the Archie Comics, and most notably Finitevus; a well known villain amongst Archie Sonic fans. That's a pretty deep cut for a main franchise element that is always front and center for the most part and goes well outside of it's most iconic use. While it's probably important for the story of the movie as they are telling it (really I'd argue for collecting enough rings to create a ring portal to jump worlds would be more game accurate and not make rings more over powered than they are), it probably would have worked better to just use them like in SatAM and Sonic X where they are just a temporary powerup as those shows are still freshly talked about even to this day. Finitevus and warp rings are a little too deep for most people and hence the confusion and lack of knowledge on the part of many.
    I get that you are trying to be positive for the movie, and I think you should be if you are truly happy with what you have seen, but I'm curious what are you trying to accomplish by convincing other people to do that same. If you're just looking for a place to share your enthusiasm this tumblr https://sonicpositive.tumblr.com/post/185644409409/i-remember-the-first-time-i-ever-saw-a-sonic-game is a great place to go and to my knowledge they know a few other places as well. And no, I'm not trying to chase you off either, I'm just offering a suggestion based on a possible reason for your insistence that everyone be as positive about this movie as you, even those who don't like. That's kind of a tall order and seems really unfair to the opinions of others.
    As for me, I've given this movie so many chances now it's ridiculous. Even after a producer was quoted off record as saying the movie is about "a small town coming together to help the sheriff save Sonic from the government" I was willing to give it a chance. Even after all of the leaks I was willing to give it a chance. Even after how appalled I was with the motion poster I was willing to give it a chance. Even after reading the Tim miller interview where he defended ignoring the IP holder for "his" vision of what the character needs to be, an unproven vision that had no concept of why the character was popular and has such wide visual appeal, I still gave this movie a chance. Then the trailer came and watching Sonic's glutes move under his fur and skin while he was stretching was one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen. And that was followed by more wrong, after wrong, including the unnecessary use of the "gotta go fast" line (there's an actual easter egg) that is used to make fun of the franchise in the first place, and of course Sonic, having electricity powers that exist absolutely nowhere in the franchise beyond a shield from Sonic 3&K that let's you jump twice that he can use to emp the entire Pacific Northwest. That is not the SOnic I grew up with and see Sega put out year after year after year.. But it doesn't end there. Did you notice not a single character in the entire trailer is ever named? Not even Sonic himself. Why didn't that trailer at any point at least have Sonic's iconic finger wag, or his James Bond riffing introduction line of "I'm Sonic, Sonic the Hedgehog"?
    I get being positive for something you like, but I'm also of the understanding that you are harshest on the things you love, and nearly 450 pages of talk about this movie should tell you how much we love Sonic here. And before you ask me the rather condescending question of if I would like this movie more if it was animated (cg, hand drawn, etc.) let me tell you plain and simple, no. This movie has shown me no wonder, no sense of adventure and discovery, no ancients artifacts and the conflicts that ensue between Sonic and Eggman over them, no fantastical locations that could only exist in fiction (no a heap of giant lifeless brown mushrooms is not fantastical too me). The presentation of this movie, the advertising, the words of the producers and studio, the words of the early script writers, none of it has convinced me that this is Sonic the Hedgehog and no amount of being told to be positive or respect the creator's vision (funny how the movie team isn't doing that either) will change that, nor will just fixing Sonic's model or going fully animated regardless of the problem behind the concept of making an impossible cartoon character real world believable. Cause believe it or not, but I absolutely hate that mentality that something can only be believable if it has realistic visuals. That is a load of garbage that completely ignores the importance of acting, writing, and directing to weave together a story that you can effected by. Sure if you show a person get hit by a truck and show every last detail of the effect it has you will react because you understand the connotations of being hit by a truck and it's awful. But what about having somebody being bitten by a corpse turning into a walking corpse themselves. It's not particularly believable without good writing, acting, and directing to sell you that it is happening to the characters that your watching or reading about, and that is regardless of being live action or otherwise. Just jumping to the conclusion that visually realistic makes everything more believable is utter hogwash and disrespects the entire art of storytelling.
    So now you probably want to ask what I would do if I was tasked with making a live action Sonic movie (or maybe any Sonic movie of any kind). Well, believe it or not but I've played on that a number of times already in this thread. But before I repeat myself again, first allow me to explain to you how unnecessary I find the entire setting of this movie to a Sonic story.
    Tom is a small town cop who is married and believes he can make it as a big town cop. That is Tom's story arc and he will never experience it being with Sonic in any form because under no circumstances does Sonic's adventures allow Tom to see that he can make as a big town cop. Sonic's very existence by nature has to put Tom on a different character arc, and his desire to prove he can be a big town cop is never addressed. that is bad storytelling made possible by not paying attention to the reality that Sonic's introduction to Tom's life brings. In other words, Sonic actually ruins Tom's character arc and ability to accurately pursue his desires. But you know what, Tom doesn't have a bad story or set up. With a little change here or there you can tell a cool family story about friendship, the importance of family, and get Tom to see he has what it takes.
    Just to give you an example to how I would tell a story for Tom, give him and his wife a kid who's a runner in school (nickname Sonic if you want to pinpoint how fast he is) and have them travelling to San Francisco for a national track meet. Now along the way, even starting in their small town, they get involved with a drug deal gone totally sideways and Tom has to balance family matters (his kid getting to and competing in the track meet) while having the opportunity to prove he can handle big town cop work. Along the way gets involved with a PI also investigating this crime ring who he bonds with throughout the movie and the two of them have each others back even as the FBI eventually gets involved because it turns out it was that big of a mess. Naturally his family gets involved but somehow or anther they manage to wrap things up in a happy ending and Tom now knows he can be small town cop, a big town cop, and even keep pace with the FBI. he knows his skills as a cop are good enough, and he also bonded deeper with his family and made a life long friend over the course of this movie who helped him see how much he has. And there you have the basis for a great story about Tom the small town cop who believes he can do more as a cop. You follow his character arc with his motivation and desire as a core component and at no point does that require alien transdimensional hedgehog pull off, nor does it benefit Sonic in anyway.
    So now, that get's us to Sonic and what type of movie I would tell with him.
    To begin, let's consider that this movie is supposed to be both an origin for Sonic himself as he is primarily known (the game version) and that it is also supposed to introduce new fans to the IP as it currently exists. You then also should find that Sonic's bizarre world is kind of hard to swallow so you are probably going to need an audience surrogate who is human, this is something I don't actually disagree with as I understand the need for it. However you have to make your audience surrogate relatable.
    So, let's start putting together a story now. I like using Indiana Jones as my foundation because I find there are plenty of parallels to Sonic (adventuring hero faces off against mad scientist who wants ancient artifact to rule the world, sounds familiar huh). First off we'll need to establish Sonic even before we worry about the believability of the world as he is the main character and the story is about him. To that we should take what we know about him from the games where according to the Japanese manuals he is already the most famous hedgehog in the world when we start and that him and Eggman also have been going at it since long before Sonic went to South Island to answer the inhabitants plea for help. From Sonic 2 we also know that Sonic is a pilot and has his own plane, the Tornado, and is a staunch adventurer with knowledge about ancient legends and civilizations. He is also a bit of a daredevil who has a strong sense of justice and prefers living life by his own rules. That's an awful lot to cover, but you also have to address that he is open to letting other follow him if thy can which is how Tails is able to establish his friendship with Sonic (this again justifies the need for a secondary protagonist for Sonic to interact with).
    Knowing where we have to get to with Sonic let's use an easter egg to get things started, but also lets go for a cohabitation world between anthros and humans so Sonic is not completely unprecedented in the world and our audience surrogate can interact with him as an actual person instead of an alien lifeform to help make him more believable (notice we're not going with like a real world creature for believable as a description but being someone you can actually talk to because it should be normal in the story so the audience believes that it is normal making believable without gimmicks). Now back to that easter egg, and Indiana Jones as our base inspiration (a successful Hollywood film by the way that is action, adventure, and comedy just like Sonic), we'll start the movie with an elderly gent who runs the ancient peoples and anthropology department of some famous university set in post space age tech era inspired from the real world time period between WWI and WWII (or the biplane era as I like to call it as I think about movies like The Mummy and Porco Rosso) who is going through the library and notices that dust has been kicked up all over the place and complains about that blasted hedgehog messing with his stuff again before deciding cucumber sandwich will calm his nerves. From here cut to a private hanger and airstrip where a private pilot finds Sonic sitting in the cockpit of one of his biplanes flicking through the books he's "borrowed" and have them call out Sonic for his love of adventure and exploring ancient overgrown and forgotten civilizations. Now you can have Sonic talk about what he loves about it such as the juxtaposition of manmade works being taken over by nature which he stoutly supports, testing his speed against the traps and dangers of the old ruins, and so on while superimposing this dialog over scenes of Sonic doing those very things. Now the pilot can comment on Sonic likely needing a plane and deciding that he'll just give Sonic the one he trained him to fly on just so he doesn't have to fly him anymore but warning him that he'll have to find his own mechanic (a hint of meeting Tails later on in the games). Sonic is grateful and soon has the plane painted red with his name on the sides and heads off for his next adventure.
    At this point we have a movie beginning and characters interacting with Sonic and also showing that he is part of the world at large as a natural element that just is (yeah we didn't touch on his speed but Sonic get's his name from his speed and it isn't a necessary element to break down to me), but the audience isn't feeling pulled in yet because Sonic is pretty aloof and despite being accepted in story we have a human bias that makes it difficult for most people to relate to a meter tall anthropomorphic blue hedgehog who flies planes and runs at the speed of sound. That means it's time to bring in our audience surrogate and expand the world a little. But what makes for a good audience surrogate. Obviously being human is a good first step to deal with that human bias problem from above, but there are so many people who are so different that you can't just slap any old human in. You have to consider your audience (young boys for Sonic plus a thirty year established audience) and also how they fit into the world to tie everything together. Well, lets go with those themes of friendship and family and take a character who has to learn them while also showing the good and bad of Sonic's love of freedom. For this, lets take an 18 year old loner who's been having family issues at home, finds out their friends aren't really their friends, and has made a mess with an intimate relationship because of all of their problems. Instead of trying to make things right, they are under a lot if emotional duress they decide to just get away from it all and join the military. But they want more freedom than a regular military allows for and joins the paramilitary peacekeeping corps. the Guardian Unit of Nations (G.U.N). There desire to get away and experience a sense of freedom ends up with them joining an artifact seek and collection team whose sole purpose is to find and collect artifacts that could endanger the world. They naturally have trust issues with their squad at first and that is their status quo going forward as we use a contrivance for the sake of the plot and send them on their first major mission to where Sonic just so happens to went to explore.
    Now that we have our audience surrogate who is young enough to be in over their head while also being relatable to a younger audience, and in a position that many adults can also understand, we need to bring in the Eggman. With Eggman I'm kind of partial to his Japanese name being both the name he is known as but also an alias to his western name of Robotnik. I also am a fan of Eggman having a disdain for G.U.N for the death of his grandfather and pretty much crippling the world's technological progress. That setup results in me having him starting the movie as a G.U.N scientist who specializes in the artifact division and after years of work proving the worth of his robots and ability to descipher the powers and abilities of ancient artifacts he has been allowed to take a team and go pursue one particularly dangerous one. Contrivances again, but this is a story so we need a few of them, puts him in charge of the audience surrogate's squad for going to the same place as Sonic.
    Moving the plot along and wrapping up this long meandering tirade, at the home of these ruins we join Sonic having a blast exploring the ruins that house the plot McGuffin and eventually finding said artifact. Sonic has no use for it and thinks it's cool just to have found but otherwise leaves it alone to go find other traps to test his speed against. meanwhile, as Eggman and the audience surrogate get to the ruins and discovers that the traps have already been tripped and are harmless Eggman betrays G.U.N revealing his plan for revenge against G.U.N by way of world conquest using the artifact for what they did to his grandfather and the world and sets his robots on the audience surrogate's team. They end up driven into the jungle where the audience surrogate's own attitude problems results in him being abandoned by his team. They figure they're doomed until they encounters Sonic. Pleading with Sonic to save him or at least deal with Eggman they end up just annoying Sonic who doesn't take what they are saying seriously and figures that the ruin's traps will defend the artifact and that the audience surrogate's team won't truly abandon them. Sonic decides to help out though when his own sense of justice gets set off by Eggman razing the forest and destroying the ruin to make sure that the G.U.N soldiers are properly dealt with. Sonic challenges Eggman alone at first, but knowing nothing about him the element of surprise does him only so much good before he gets bested by Eggman's robots. Believing Sonic bested, Eggman leaves on his own personal aircraft and Sonic is rescued by the audience surrogate who still needs help getting out of eth burning jungle and back to safety. Sonic figures that he will need help at least learning about Eggman so he can do better in his next encounter and pay the doc back for what he did to the jungle. The audience surrogate figures their squad would know more than them and they and Sonic track down and rescue the squad before departing the jungle to face down Eggman in the movie's climax. You could then wrap things up from by showing the audience surrogate going home and resolving things with their family and friends due to what they learnt from their encounter with Sonic while also cherishing their G.U.N family. Sonic meanwhile has saved eth world from Eggman and is enjoying the fame and recognition before heading off in search off his next adventure hoping it will be as exciting and great a learning experience as this one was. Lastly, Eggman having ousted his own identity and been thwarted plans revenge against Sonic as part of his world conquest schemes and vows to return again. Finally the credits roll and you can use them to show highlights of possible future encounters ending with a post credit scene of Sonic finding out about the troubles on South Island with a message inviting you to track down the original game.
    Anyway, that was a really long wall of text that was probably fairly superfluous for the most part, but I hope at the very least it helps you see that at least some of us have really, really, thought about why this doesn't work and what could work for us without disregarding what works for Hollywood. Indiana Jones has far more parallels to what Sonic is for a Hollywood movie and should have been the blueprint if veering away from the games rather than a buddy cop road trip where Sonic's presence actually hinders development through the characters' own desires and pursuing them.
     
  3. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    It feels like we're back in 2013 and are learning that the writers know next to nothing of the franchise beyond what you can skim on a Wiki. "He's blue, he's a hedgehog who runs fast and wears red shoes, he's a video game, he started on the..."
    I'm not handing out brownie points for the bare minimum. Easter Eggs don't make up for the bad writing.
  4. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Splash the Otter in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    I can't help but feel like you're reaching with some of those easter eggs, especially the references to SatAM and Sonic X. And we don't want the stuff we like about Sonic reduced to easter eggs, we want it front and center!
  5. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Kills me inside that I hate it, but that's just life, I suppose. Not all dreams are meant to be.
  6. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Lord-Dreamerz in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Umm even in a realistic setting Sonic is not suppose to look flatly like a actual hedgehog, he was never meant to be simply a blue colored animal. Sonic is a anthropomorphic AKA half human & half animal combo type in nature. What you made in my opinion is a even worse take on the character then what the Sonic movie was originally trying to do, and it would never be accepted by the bulk of the fanbase nor even most people who barely know Sonic.
  7. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Diogenes in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Kinda sucks to have to dump on something I should've been excited to see, but it is what it is.
  8. Chuckle
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to BaronGrackle in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    I mean, let's not get carried away here.
    https://www.gamecrate.com/sonic-hedgehog-movie-all-clues-and-easter-eggs-you-might-have-missed-trailer/22907
    Quills! That's an easter egg, because reasons.
    Ring portals! Easter egg.
    Sonic may be an alien! So... easter egg?
    Brown giant desert mushrooms! That's definitely an easter egg for Brown Mushroom Desert Zone.
    Robotnik looks accurate in one scene! That's totally easter egg.
     
    It's all totally overwhelming fanservice, right? And oh! I didn't even mention that Sonic's a blue talking hedgehog. That's gotta be worth, like, eight more easter eggs or something.
  9. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    We've discussed for over 400 pages why the movie looks like shit. If all you took away from it was "it doesn't fit our vision" and "we don't like the design", then that's your problem.
    And yeah, even with the re-design, the movie will probably still suck. Sonic looking like a nightmare demon was only the most obvious problem, there's still the lackluster writing, the annoying and dumb human characters that will inevitably take up most of the plot and screen time, eye-rollingly terrible jokes (that are again the focus of the movie), and the list goes on. Fixing Sonic's design at this point is the equivalent to slapping a band-aid on a broken arm.
  10. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Tarnish in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    You're saying that like a scenario where the designs they chose really are ugly beyond words and expectations is not possible. Sometimes reality is just cruel and shit really does happen.

    And I would say this movie is a case of that.
  11. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Tarnish in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Well, what kind of evidence would you expect? It's either actual letters or emails sent to SEGA, both case it's in SEGA's posession, or it was on a website forum or something..which good luck finding 15 years later.
  12. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Dr. Detective Mike in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    That doesn't seem to be the logic that was exposited there at all. There being some kids sending in letters asking for Sonic to use a gun doesn't mean that the majority of all children out there wanted that to be the case, for one. It was certainly something I had never heard of when I was a kid. If the reaction they had to it was to include stuff like Gamma and the SA2 levels for Tails and Eggman than that also means its likely the requests were spread out over the years, which means it's possible they were relatively infrequent and just simply added up over time. 
    It's usually up to the company to decide what makes sense to act upon and what to ignore. It's never really a good idea to immediately acquiesce to the requests some people have without taking into account whether or not it's something truly beneficial.  
    There's a balance between creative integrity and fan input that needs to be respected here and this movie far and away has done nothing to achieve that from what I can tell. It doesn't even seem like this movie has either of those things to begin with. 
  13. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Tarnish in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    I beg to differ. Even if the game was totally bug free, the story would still have more holes than a giant block of swiss cheese, the aesthetic of the whole game would still be very bland, Sonic characters next to realistic humans would still be weird, I'd still find the whole "Shadow using armed vehicles" idea stupid.

    The concept itself was kinda flawed to begin with.
  14. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Well, Dio just pointed out how that's the exact lesson that we learned from Shadow's game, which, if you remember, wasn't a very good one.
  15. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to StaticMania in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    What an example, dude.
    What kids want isn't the stopping point of what they'll actually settle for, so giving them what they "want" will never be the right thing to do.
  16. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Diogenes in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Yes that is literally the lesson we learned from Shadow's game.
  17. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    This plot probably would suck in any situation, but yeah, a fully animated movie where Sonic actually looks like Sonic would definitely be less repulsive to look at.
    While I don't necessarily want a straight adaptation of something like Sonic Adventure, Sonic  has a ton of world, characters, and lore to draw from. It's not impossible to come up with something that's at least interesting, as opposed to just "Sonic X, but live action, and worse".
    What you also failed to mention is that they failed to market the movie, like, at all, so that definitely didn't help. You can't just drop a movie into theaters and expect it to get amazing returns, that's not how it works.
    For one, the majority of people didn't want Sonic or anyone to use guns. Kids sent in letters to Sega asking for that, sure, but there's a reason they created Gamma specifically for that, because it doesn't fit Sonic as a character. And for two, just because people want something doesn't mean they should accept it if the execution is bad. A lot of people wanted another game like Sonic Adventure, and they got Sonic 2006. That game was terrible, but they asked for more Sonic Adventure, so does that mean you think they should accept it?
  18. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Definitely not this movie.
    Sonic is only recognizable if you boil it down to the most broad of details, "They're both blue! They both wear red shoes!" Okay, but that doesn't make for a good adaptation because for one, completely changing the look of the character to the point where it just barely resembles the character it's supposed to represent, is not good.
    As for what I personally would want, other people, including myself have stated countless times that a fully animated movie would've been much better. Hell, Sega even owns a damn animation studio (and it's not like they're unproven talent, either).
    If you truly didn't get that, you just weren't paying attention. Despite us going over this countless times over the course of this thread.
  19. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    No we don't. Even just beyond this nearly 443 page threat, fans, non-fans, casual onlookers, the creators of Sonic, several people who work at or have worked at Sega, have stated loud and clear that it doesn't work and have given an extensive list of reasons why.
    We don't owe them a chance. They're a company that's making a product that they have to convince us is worth our money, and they're failing to do so.
  20. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Indigo Rush in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    I want to attack this argument at it's root.
    You do not have to like or defend everything with Sonic it.
    I say this because I've been through that exact same mindset back in my teenage years. I was defending Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 2006 for corn's sake, and it had nothing to do with a genuine appreciation for the product itself, and had everything to do with an implied mandatory solidarity with Sonic in general. I've taken notice that the vast majority of people who defend Sonic's more ridiculous material are either children and teenagers who don't know any better, or adults who happened to get into the franchise at a time when similar ridiculous material was the way it was presented. 
    This trend of blaming the community at large for Sonic's generally negative reputation as a game series is either a disingenuous or a naive perspective, and it wrongly invalidates the years of constructive criticism against Sonic's failings as a whole. Defenders are quick to attack IGN, for instance, (despite the site's founder having worked for them in a managerial position) for being biased against Sonic, not because they take issue with what was said, but because they put a number lower than 7 next to a picture of some box art with Sonic on it. It's a reactionary trend that does more to paint Sonic fans in general as overly sensitive and unreasonable children who don't care about the quality of a product, so long as their favorite character is represented in some shape or form.
    Enter the Sonic movie, where this horridly disfigured abomination of a furry's wet dream shows up, complete with uncanny human proportions and the soul of a corporate shill's merchandising factory, is being defended, not by studied film critics or seasoned and veteran fans of the series, but by kids and teens who take one look at the trailer, see a blue hedgehog running fast and rolling into a ball. They see Sonic in this twisted depiction of Hollywood's absolute worst pedigree, and feel the need to defend it. Because it's Sonic.
    Listen, if y'all really, truly cared about Sonic, you would ask for better than this; and seeing as not just Sonic fans, but the general public decried the film's main character for looking nothing like the character it's supposed to be representing it, I'm wondering how much thought you've actually put into this. If I can show a picture of Furry Movie Sonic to my older co-worker and they have to scrunch their brow and squint their eyes for a few seconds before saying "...is that Sonic?" then you done dog gone plum done screwed up, ya idiots. 
    Demand better. If a bunch of rando's on the Internet had enough sense to ask for it, then why aren't you on the frontlines? 
  21. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Splash the Otter in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Gee, it's almost like we aren't a hive mind! What a concept!
     
  22. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Diogenes in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Tone policing doesn't make your argument any better, and trying to pull this "just be polite and respectful like me! uwu" attitude while deliberately misrepresenting the criticism against the movie as nothing but shrieking anger is transparently dishonest. There's plenty of reasoned, detailed criticism of Sonic's design and the movie in general, whether or not you've bothered to look for it and whether or not it's phrased as politely as you insist it be.
  23. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Tarnish in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    If we used the "HEY, someone put some work into that!" argument as a reason to avoid criticism, you couldn't criticise a damn thing.
  24. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to Blacklightning in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    Okay, first of all: your argument definitely wasn't "the designs aren't bad because they're different" before. In fact, based on what you were originally responding to, what you suggested was something a lot closer to "they still draw from the same aesthetic". You don't get to back out of that and move the goalposts just because the most basic premise behind that argument is completely laughable. And just to give you an idea of just how laughable that is, that does apply to most of the examples you just gave. Nobody gives a shit what colour Sonic's eyes are nowadays (and even back then it never really kicked up a fuss until Richard Kuta basically made a meme out of it, and by that point I'm pretty sure we were already past 06 if not close to it) because modern and classic Sonic nonetheless shared every other defining visual trait, the same general aesthetic style and many of the same characteristics besides being a little taller and slimmer.
    I don't think I can break it down any simpler than this: Sonic is a cartoon character. In the move, Sonic is not a cartoon character. The very core of your argument is factually - not just objectively, factually - wrong, and simply giving your argument more words doesn't really address that in any way, shape or form.
    And while we're on that subject, I'm even going to humour this obvious strawman attempt anyway - yes, movie Sonic is ugly. It doesn't matter a single bit what completely arbitary nitpick makes "sense" in the constraints of the film universe or the self-imposed restrictions the directors designed the film around, because it is in essense a thermian argument - they are in control of all those factors and weren't under any obligation to follow them. Because they did, Sonic's look suffered for it. It's not designed for a live action space, and they butchered his look in order to achieve parity with it. This backlash isn't because of whiny, entitled fans like you seem to be implying - the reveal trailer was actually #1 on trending Youtube for a time, and you're gonna have a pretty hard time convincing anyone the fandom alone has those kinds of numbers or that the video was up that high for any good reason.
    Thirdly, I can't believe this even needs to be said: fanart isn't official representation of a multi million dollar licensed product. These aren't people competing to be the next big thing in a medium not yet explored by the franchise - this is just a bunch of fans with spare time and a generally niche audience without an intended endgoal. I guarantee you if the same stuff had to be pitched on a AAA level, the response would be much different.
    It is nonetheless a representative of the games, though, and has no good reason to diverge from them this far. I don't quite know how aware of this you are, but the Sonic movie is an outlier in this regard, not the norm - most decent adaptations at least make an attempt to resemble the thing they're based on, and we have examples as recent as Castlevania and Ratchet and Clank to speak for this.
    That being said, you're absolutely right about one thing - 06 Sonic did look weird alongside normal-looking people. That has nothing to do with why his design didn't work though - rather it was because of the concious and intentional decision to place him in an environment he obviously contrasted with badly when they were in no way obligated to do so, and doing the movie in live action is something people have consistently advised against for this exact same reason. This isn't a recent complaint either - literally on day one, the moment we heard it was a live action hybrid, most people already knew it was going to weigh down heavily on the movie, even if the extent to which would be up to debate for quite some time.
    It's honestly fucking ridiculous that you're fishing this hard for ways to pin this on the fans, as if it's somehow our fault Sega can't parse good feedback from the bad. In fact I'd be genuinely surprised if you didn't know full well Dio wasn't suggesting anything this extreme, so I'm going to act on an official capacity for this one - don't do that. If you can't make an argument in good faith without intentionally misrepresenting what other people are saying, how about just don't post at all.
  25. Thumbs Up
    MidoChaosHedgehog reacted to DreamSaturn in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Gangsters Paradise is on Page 380)   
    I'm going to continue bashing it because it's a bad design that should've never been greenlit.
    And I don't care if work went into it, that's a given. You can put all the work in the world into a school project and still have it be terrible and get a well deserved F.
    Effort =/= Quality
    Just because it's new doesn't mean it's worthwhile. In fact, most "new" things Sonic has tried have been complete flops. If fans can tell from a few seconds that Sonic 4 plays nothing like the Classics, then I don't see how it's unreasonable for fans to deduce that something sucks based on a trailer that makes it look terrible, a plot synopsis, casting, leaked merch, and quite a lot more to work off of than what fans had for Sonic 4.
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