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The KKM

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The KKM last won the day on March 18

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About The KKM

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    冯茂儒
  • Birthday 01/07/1992

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    Torres Vedras

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  1. They do. Pretty sure Ian's outright said they use rings, too. Just in the games, Sega specifically asks for that to not be shown, presumably out of a feeling that it'd complicate things.
  2. He never said it's just geopolitical. Fans assumed that was it, in an attempt to maintain the one world setting. Pardon the meme, it was coping. It absolutely is and always was intended, for however long it's existed, to be two separate planets, that the characters travel between through portals, a setup the Sonic movie actually ended up using too. Much as some people would want it, this isn't the scenario described by Phil Collins going "Two Worlds, One Family". It's not figurative worlds, it's literal ones.
  3. Not to be arguing back, but two of those are instantly irrelevant- Chronicles isn't by Sonic Team and got more leeway story-wise than usual, and Witchcart is from a game by Aspect (or is it Ancient, I always mix the two) so same thing (not to mention, is a quickly-made reskin of Mizrabel). The rest are actual arguments here since they relate to Sonic Team games, those two aren't. (the rest could be argued around and explained etc, but is more difficult and convoluted to and comes down to whether you believe Ian, Sonic Team, etc. I do think they had a vague intention of separate worlds since at least 2003 and possibly earlier judging how the OVA's setting involved two separate realms, but I don't know for certain much like how no one else knows for certain. We just got that the concept first was clear in 2003, was made clearer in 2010, and was told to us by a decent source that he himself was told it was intended from at least 1998. Yes, they didn't make it obvious and clear if so- but what do they ever do? They have an entire set of lore references explaining stuff like this or how Blaze's world works in terms of civilisation etc, and just never explain it to the public, out of a feeling that it's unneeded material. It's absolutely believable to me that this has been a thing as far back as 1991, and they just never felt the need to explain it further because they felt it'd bog the games down in lore and minutia) EDIT: and if anyone's wondering why I instantly discount Witchcart etc- if you actually try to count the non-Sonic Team classic games as canon, you're left with a huge mess where there's 7 Emeralds, or just 6, or 8, and they spread around the world, or all just remain on South Island, which was just an island Sonic and Eggman visited, or is where Sonic lives, together with friends like Tails, who had a massive adventure before meeting Sonic but was also afraid and meek and bullied before meeting Sonic, and Knuckles, who got on Sonic's side but then instantly mistrusted him again and sided with Eggman and Fang, etc etc. It's much clearer that each developer just refererred to their own games- Sonic Team to their own, Ancient to their own while taking characters from the main games, etc. EDIT EDIT: Just to clarify again, just... not saying you have to like two world or to believe that it was intended since Adventure instead of just with Colours- just that those two specific arguments against that possibility (Chronicles and Skypatrol) are useless because they're games that Sonic Team would've ignored anyway
  4. They introduced it decades before Forces. Even if you somehow don't want to believe Ian when he says he was told it's been a thing since before Adventure, we've been told about it since Colours. It's got nothing to do with Forces, Forces is just the first game to make it more glaring because it helps explain why no GUN in such a scenario.
  5. Her character before Adventure was "fangirl of Sonic with hammer who chases him around and is the cute girl of the group". Her character after is the same. There's different nuances, mostly due to Classic not having much way to show nuance to begin with, but it's overall the same thing and nowhere near "Is Charmy a 6 year old hyper kid living with two detectives or an edgy teenager running around the world". This is if anything the one time it's not a marketing ploy. Tons of Sonic is marketing. The choice to not use these characters is clearly personal to Sonic Team instead. Compare to Miyamoto not using Wario since he didn't create Wario. It legit just boils to "we don't want to use the stuff we didn't make".
  6. No, AAUK said the same of Big the Cat a few years ago. Different from Iizuka saying it. At this point you're basically arguing "there was never a division because Sonic got to exist". Yes, the flickies made it through, Mecha Sonic (not Silver Sonic, forget Archie, forget old localisation, Silver Sonic was never a thing) made it through, Amy made it through. Obviously it's not hermetical that "nothing whatsoever from classic games can make it to modern" or there wouldn't be a modern at all, the franchise would've ended at Sonic 3d Blast Saturn. Luckily, that's not what we're having to repeatedly explain over and over. What we keep saying is, any classic game material not by Sonic Team or people who by the Dreamcast had become Sonic Team is useable by them but willingly chosen not to. Sonic, Tails, Eggman, Amy, Charmy, Espio, Vector, Knuckles, Death Egg Robos, Death Egg, all that was created by Sonic Team (and again, by Sonic Team here we understand people who would become Sonic Team, so yes, STI counts here since we mean "people at STI who later joined Sonic Team", so Sonic 2-3-K count here), all that made it through. Fang was created by Aspect, an external company- goes unused. Mighty was created internally at Sega but by someone who ended up not joining Sonic Team- goes unused. Bean was created by Sega AM2- goes unused. And these characters have been unused for decades now, and they've been considered forgotten characters, and classic-specific logos and art styles are forbidden from being mixed with modern, and this has been the status quo for longer than some people participating in this discussion have existed. And no, they don't care about continuity, because continuity is secondary and if you want to bring continuity over then that's even more reason to not use those characters- Sonic the Fighters has 8 emeralds, 8-bit games have 6 and are always set in South Island, etc. If anything, the characters now being able to be used in Classic-specific products is in spite of continuity. Your mind is stuck in the notion of "stuck in a separate universe", not wanting to understand that their status quo before was "stuck in nonexistence". tldr- again, forget Archie. Archie got its own standard and rules through contractual shenanigans over decades. It's gone. Those aren't happening again. Everything else in the franchise has worked under this logic. Classic things can be brought back, but are intentionally chosen not to. Now that there's a revived Classic-specific brand, all those things that would've been banned otherwise, get to live there instead. The Chaotix weren't just redesigned, they were outright recreated. Amy in Classic or Modern is the same character, same with Sonic, Tails, or Knuckles. Classic Vector is a religious man looking for an island after a vision from god, Classic Charmy is a brooding teenager who runs fast and runs the world for flowers to smell, Classic Espio has nothing to do with ninjas and is a hardboiled detective. They're irreconcilable with the Modern versions. Now, could they just choose to ignore the classic personalities? Sure, same way how they could choose to ignore all this. But they clearly don't, and there's a clear logic to it. The characters of the Chaotix, the detective agency, their relation to each other, their personalities, are fully modern characters. Yes, they're based on existing Classic characters, but their situation would be more comparable to making a Classic Shadow. I'm not saying you can't complain about these rules, I've even agreed myself that I'd enjoy seeing Classic characters in Modern. But acting like they're new, or inconsistent, is just plain wrong- there's a clear thoroughline to it that becomes clear when you accept 1- Sonic Team didn't create or oversee all of Classic Sonic and thus they don't see a lot of it as their own, and 2- Archie is an outlier that should not be used as the example of how anything works
  7. The Chaotix were the last old characters to be brought in, and are all related directly to Sonic Team in some way except Espio, who we can only speculate is (Vector and Charmy were designed by Sega, Espio has been speculated to have been designed by Ohshima). Even then they got so drastically reworked (as opposed to every other character) that they actively retcon the existing Chaotix into non-existence. Since then, no other character returned. THAT's the "rule". They don't want to use any of those old characters they had no hand in. That's how things've been since 2003.
  8. The point is, this discussion isn't new. Search back, you'll find threads about "why is Bean not in new games" for decades. Understanding that helps understand that it's not some bizarre new rule, it's just "the new comic has to actually play by the existing rules". What you're asking for isn't actually "why does this divise exist", since it has since 2003. You're asking "why doesn't the IDW Comic specifically get to have its own standard like Archie had", just worded differently. At which point, well, the answer's the same as always.
  9. Ok, if it helps you wrap your head around it, think of it like this then- Archie had to deal with Sega of America, IDW has direct feedback from Sonic Team. Archie got to sort of hide under half-forgotten holes of corporate power where no one really cared much to deal with this comic thing in the US (hence things getting to the point of the infamous crying cover, and even afterwards things like SatAM material remaining up until the end). IDW gets direct feedback from Sonic Team on how the setting exists. For Sonic Team, these characters have never really existed in Sonic. Not in a literal continuity "Mighty does not exist" sense, just "we don't want to use the characters from these games". So now that IDW, much like any other licensee nowadays, works from them directly, IDW goes with those rules. Compare to how Miyamoto Mario games rarely refer to Wario and never really use him- because Wario is the creation of another team, and so Miyamoto just doesn't want to use him. Same with Daisy, or Waluigi. Different teams working in the same franchise, main team getting a say on what it wants to use, choosing to ignore what the other teams did. That's been Sonic ever since 2003 to the point fan sites used to list those characters as "forgotten characters". Only in Archie was the situation ever different, and like I keep saying, Archie is very much the exception that shouldn't be used as an example for much of anything because of its own specific circumstances as a legacy product from the 90s from SoA in specific etc etc. EDIT: And if it's not clear enough, I'm saying Archie clearly still got a preferencial "well, licensors shouldn't, but we'll let you do this" treatment even after reboot, which the use of the SatAM/AoSTH stuff shows; It's just the use of the classic characters was ALSO part of that treatment. A new comic, without all that baggage grandfathered in, with a new contract done under current rules that match the view of the franchise that's overall existed for 20 years? Doesn't get to do that, gets to do other stuff instead that Ian's also gone "huh, they approved it" at. EDIT EDIT: To be more relevant to the thread though. The corporate decision's annoyed me at times. For years I wished the modern games could introduce back old non-Sonic Team content from the 90s. As it is right now, well they are, even if in an awkward way; and the division in licensed material forces the use of some underappreciated stuff in the Modern era and makes it more manageable (if classic were available, would we have much of G-Merl or Tangle or anything in the comic? Would we have Egg Vipers in the latest arc instead of just Death Egg Robos? etc). So yeah sure carry on. Still wouldn't say no to having modern versions of these concepts appear in the future. Not in the comics, in games.
  10. I'm going to straight up ignore all you say about Archie because again, my point re: Archie is it had a special set of circumstances. It got to keep using SatAM until 2017 or so, after all. We know the circumstances of its licensing were straight up just not normal, as made clear by how different stuff has been in IDW, which hasn't been entirely just because "changed on a dime". Ignoring Archie, from Adventure onwards, when did the characters from classic games not made or co-made by Sonic Team ever get used? Some got considered for Heroes, then forgotten. Some got in a couple cameos in Generations where the entire point of the cameo was exactly the fact that they'd never gotten used since. It's exactly the fact that Sonic Team doesn't want to use those characters that makes the joke way they're used in that game in the first place. Mania? Mania's already "new classic Sonic brand". Mania's already made under the provision of "we were going to keep the revival of the old art style to Generations, but people responded well, so now it's a new sub-brand. We might as well bless the use of all that 90s content we normally don't use because we don't care for it, since this is a separate thing anyways". Sonic X didn't get Mighty. Sonic 06 didn't have a playable Bean. Fang would've made sense to bring back ever since SA2, and never was. These characters were separated into "irrelevant and nonexistence" from the moment Heroes reinvented the Chaotix and closed the doors on returning characters. Nowadays, those characters actually get to be used in new games, merchandise, etc. That's the only difference that's happened.
  11. Your post already half understood the situation. People are focusing heavily on Archie, and on new comics not getting to do this, forgetting Archie got to do a LOT it wasn't supposed to. Then Forces using the vague "separate world" wording got people to overfocus on this specific term and not the general circumstances of the franchise. The Classic-Modern distinction isn't new. It's always existed. It's just before, the classic-exclusive characters were outright banned. Remember Mighty appearing in a poster in Generations being a massive deal, exactly because he was gone for ages? The current situation is if anything an improvement- now those characters are allowed to be used since there's a new branch that gets to just kind of have the scraps of what's unused in the main branch. Before, those scraps were nonexistent entirely. tldr- classic-modern division always existed. Forget Archie, it was always an exception that broke many rules and got away with stuff no other licensed material would, and ended up in court for it. EDIT: since people'll focus on that and ignore the rest of the post- no, Archie didn't get sued for using classic characters. Point is instead "Archie did a lot of things outside what'd be normal for a licensed product because it had very unique circumstances that aren't reproducible, and which ended up leading it to court". The classic thing is just a symptom of that, same as using SatAM and AoSTH material
  12. There is no reason the tone and format that was such a success here can't be transposed to the mainline book, yes. Not overwrite it entirely, for all the grumping about zombot arc there's people who like it and arcs as that; but to give it some variety. Evan's already trying to put a step towards that with the shorter character-driven arcs, but hopefully more'll be done.
  13. If you think that's oddly specific, you haven't noticed half of the other ones in that story yet Very happy to see people get them though
  14. It really doesn't, come on, think a bit man. IDW MLP is being closed because it's associated with a brand of the franchise that's now over- it's more comparable to Archie's Sonic X being replaced with Universe. Sonic the Comic got cut early because of really bad editorial decisions leading to bad sales (I promise you even the best selling DC comic around out there wouldn't be able to sustain itself with three years of reprints and no new content), same way how Archie Sonic ended because of editorial bad decisions.
  15. By this point near half the issue's out already in previews which I imagine doesn't help anything.
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