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Blue Blood

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Blue Blood last won the day on May 11

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About Blue Blood

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    The happiest Sonic fan in the world.

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  1. The thread about the Colours Ultimate in Retro is enlightening. So many different opinions about the game, from hate to love, but most people fall somewhere in the middle. It's the amount of discussion surrounding the 2D/3D nature of the game though that's really interesting to read (provided you can get through some off the really petty and nonsensical arguments). The jury is still out on whether it's mostly 2D or 3D and that in itself is really telling, don't you think? The fact that it's even a point of discussion?

    Whether it's mostly 2D or 3D isn't the main issue, as far as I'm concerned at least. The problem lies in the fact that the 3D gameplay is shallow and passive. The 3D areas are usually (not always) empty corridors or quick step areas. The active gameplay, including almost all of the platforming, is 2D.

    Colours isn't a bad game at all. It's pretty good. But it's just not a 3D platformer. 

    1. Sega DogTagz

      Sega DogTagz

      I'm honestly not sure how anyone could look at that game and label it 3D. Its so heavily slanted toward 2D in both creative design and actual game time that it shouldn't even be a conversation.

    2. Waveshocker Sigma

      Waveshocker Sigma

      I don't think it's bad, but I definitely don't think it's good. It's just technically better than some things before and after it despite being honestly kind of boring.

    3. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      @Sega DogTagz3D games with 2D sections are a really normal thing, especially when you're talking about platformers. But you almost never come across something that's the other way around. You get 2D games with 3D bonus stages, just look at the Classic Sonic games, and you almost never see 2D games where the action shifts to 3D for anything other a few set pieces. SEGA themselves peg Colours as 3D and the game has enough 3D that it's easy to think of it as such. But it's... Not.

    4. Sonikko

      Sonikko

      Colours discourse is so centered about the "Is it a 2D game" dilemma, when that is not really the point imo, people who dislike Colours probably still like Rush, I know I do to an extent.

      The issue isn't really that it's 2D or that there isn't enough 3D, the problem with it and the reason people dislike modern 2D gameplay usually is that it's very blocky and doesn't really feel like Sonic most of the time.

      And I said modern 2D gameplay because that's just how it is in every modern game, maybe except Unleashed, which is why nobody really complains about the 2D sections in that game, while when talking about Generations that same point is brought up quite often.

       

    5. Jango

      Jango

      The beginning of Planet Wisp act 1 is enough to make me want this remake ASAP. I consider Sonic Colors a game of pure appreciation, as I always only found the gameplay to be "functional" at best. There's so much stuff that plays itself that I'm inclined to believe that Sonic Team thought that too. Even with the dozen wisps, the gameplay is just there because this IS a videogame after all.

       

      It's the presentation, art and music that sold it to me. Game's fucking beautiful, man. The colors DO feel so right. They fucking do.

    6. Jack-al

      Jack-al

      I consider it a 3D game because it has 3D models and stuff, but honestly it's actually mostly 2D when you look at it, and 2D sections are quite blocky platforming. I like the game but it has various issues, it's very simplistic in level design and gameplay, not to the Forces level but it was the fundation of that... sigh, Kishimoto.

    7. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      @Jack-al A game made of 3D models and played on a 2D plane is typically called a 2.5D game. This would apply to Classic Sonic in Generations/Forces, all the "2D"sections games like Unleashed/Lost World/Colours/Forces, the Rivals series etc... It means a game rendered in 3D where you the player only control movement across two axes instead of 3. Games like Sonic Rush or New Super Mario Bros might also be called 2.5D because they mix 3D models (the characters) with 2D sprites (the levels themselves).

      So when people say that Colours has too much 2D or is a 2D game, technically they're saying it has too much 2.5D or is a 2.5D game.

    8. A_W

      A_W

      @Blue Blood I've been thinking about the Rivals games a lot since the discussion about 2D and 3D started in that thread. I don't know if it's rose-tinted glasses or what, but I feel like despite being entirely '2.5D' in gameplay, they actually made a lot better use of 3D space than any of the boost games' 2D sections ever did, with paths that regularly twist and turn and cross over themselves along with more dynamic camera angles.

      The mystic art of 『spline-based 2.5D』was first mastered in the late 90s with Klonoa: Door to Phantomile in 1997 and Kirby 64 in 2000. I think I'd be a lot more tolerant of 2D sections in mainline Sonic games if they did things remotely like those games or Rivals 1 and 2, instead of always being so... flat. I do remember there being a few instances of '3D' turns in '2D' sections in Unleashed and Colours, but as I remember it, the vast majority is just straight, boring '2D'. I probably ought to replay those games to make sure I'm not talking out of my ass, though.

    9. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      Forces uses splines extensively in 3D so that you don't have to turn... I mean, the other games so it too. Even the Adventures do  it to some extent and I'm not just talking about loops. Forces goes the extra mile in making the game play itself though.

      In a change from Generations and Unleashed, none of Forces' 2.5D gameplay takes place entirely on the X and Y axes, ignoring the Z axis. It was never as intricate as something like the Rivals games or Klonoa, but there was some use of it.

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