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Kuzu the Boloedge

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Kuzu the Boloedge last won the day on February 7

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About Kuzu the Boloedge

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    It doesn't matter who I am, I'm me.
  • Birthday 05/09/1993

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    Vadeo games, Animu, The piano, Biking, tvtropes(fuck that site).
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    United States
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    Za Warudo

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  1. We didn't deserve a game like Unleashed, and now we'll never get it again...

    1. Show previous comments  13 more
    2. Diogenes


      @Kuzu the Boloedge i'm just not that impressed with a bunch of fluff that doesn't end up amounting to much. there's a lot of stuff and it's mostly decently made looking at it isolation...but it's ultimately mostly filler and hurts the game's pacing and has a bunch of awkward decisions so that it just doesn't work on the whole. it's like a whole lot of "hey look at what we can do!" and not enough considering if it's actually serving the experience.

    3. Thigolf


      "Would it kill you to appreciate the presentation of Unleashed"

      I'm pretty sure a lot of people do, the problem is that there is a game underneath 

    4. Wraith


      I wouldn't write the problems with the werehog combat down to "get good" because the shit is not actually hard. Most people beat the game soundly or at least got close so it can't be that. It falls into the first big pitfall a combat system can fall into by not properly encouraging the player to experiment. Most of the Werehog's combos are locked and you have to pour your EXP into one stat in a spread of 5 honestly redundant ones to get the moves that make it more enjoyable. Even then there's a good chance anyone who's played with a combat system worth their salt at all will bounce off of it anyway because it's shallow compared to even the middle grade stuff the genre has to offer. 

      This is basic shit as far as combat systems go and even as a werehog fan who thinks the "put knuckles in" idea is dumb I think the game deserves to be picked on for this. It's fun enough if you know how to wring the most out of it and don't mind how shallow it is, but that's about it. My favorite parts of these levels were the few platforming sections and even those are put in jeporady by the drop shadow issue(another basic game design rule that this game just fucking thought it was too good for I guess?)

      Sonic Unleashed doesn't want me to love it. I do anyway. 

    5. Balding Spider

      Balding Spider

      @Strickerx5 Oh I fully agree with you that it didn't deserve to be lower than 06, or RoL. That's just wrong.

    6. Waveshocker Sigma

      Waveshocker Sigma

      @Wraith I really don't see it as that big of an issue and have more than enough fun messing around with all of the different combos once I get them just because I can. It doesn't matter to me if it's necessary. If I have the option to do it, I'll just do it to have fun with the game and mess around. Not to mention that canceling with the shield, dodges and jump made it fun enough for me. It's no Kingdom Hearts or DMC, for sure, but it's still a fun time since I'm focused more on what I can do versus whether or not I have to do it.

      And as for the "picking on" thing...Eh, I disagree and find that thinking incredibly silly, but that's because I honestly just can't be bothered to whine and complain about all of these things nowadays if I find I'm able to improve at it and have a good time. Too much wasted energy. If I improve and find I'm still not enjoying it, that's a different story. (06 and Lost World) Even then, though, rather than sit and nitpick, whine and "pick on" the game for it...I'll just turn it off, get rid of it and play another game alongside not buying the next one if I'm suspicious of it. That's just way more productive than getting mad and picking apart absolutely every little thing wrong with it and making it more of a problem and "disaster" than it actually is, when in truth, it's actually just mildly annoying.

      Unleashed has it's flaws, but they're ultimately a bunch of minor flaws that can be easily overlooked and swept aside in favor of the fun and thrilling experience in my eyes. But, agree to disagree, cause I'm sure that's where this is likely headed. lol

    7. dbzfan7


      But Sonic Colors broke new ground n stuff.... *Adds in every reviewers Sonic has had his ups and down spiel*

    8. Maxtiis


      I remember it was around the time Unleashed came out that I pretty much stopped bringing up Sonic games around my friends at school. That was around the time where it became mainstream to despise Sonic and label any of his fans as being blind nostalgia-whores I believe, so I just kept it to myself. Tbh, I still do this in public today just out of fear of ridicule.

      But despite that, Unleashed was what brought me back into enjoying Sonic after that 3 year period between Shadow and Unleashed that really marked the "Dark Age of Sonic" if that's what we'll refer to it as. I just had a great time with it, and even if I had my obvious gripes with the Werehog, I did enjoy just how good the platforming could be at times. Of course regular Sonic was an absolute thrill, and given that was around the time my family got our first hd tv, a pleasure on the eyes as well.

      I still hold very fond memories of Unleashed. Sure you could write it off as nostalgia, but there is genuine quality to be found there. It just got buried under all the negative press that surrounded Sonic after '06 ruined his reputation.

    9. Patticus


      The Werehog was the most ill-conceived, badly put together shit. The was the opposite of fun and should've been totally rethought.

      The fast levels were all about route memorization, and that sucked a fat one too.

    10. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      @Diogenes I'm currently replaying the game and while I do agree, I don't feel like those things drag the game down all that much. 

      Rest assured, I am noticing NUMEROUS things that I am remembering; the Werehog kills the pacing of the game after daytime stages, it overstays it's welcome, and is just overall repetitive and a blatant case of padding

      Daytime stages have really bad controls at slower speeds, which make the precise platforming sections a pain in the ass.And the general 3D Sonic game issues are still present like Cameras and whatnot.

      I only replayed the first two levels and I noticed that immediately. 


      All of that said, I feel like there is still a good game underneath if you can get past that. Not perfect by any means and we can certainly do better, but for what it was, it is definitely one of the better entries in terms of 3D Sonic, especially in light of what came later on in the series` cycle. 

    11. Sega DogTagz

      Sega DogTagz

      The problem with the werehog was that you didn't need any of his extra moves. There were plenty of them to unlock, and those that went the extra mile to learn the combos were rewarded with a werehog that could quite literally cartwheel around the stage bringing destruction and carnage in his wake... but you didn't need any of that.

      Button mashing the basic combo with well timed dodges is all it really took. Furthermore as soon as you unlocked the charge punch or the dash attack, nothing really posed much of a threat anymore. Despite having options the game should have forced you to experiment a bit to see what he had to offer.

    12. Dejimon11


      In terms of what? It's presentation or the whole package?

    13. Maxtiis


      @Patticus You could say the same about all Metroidvanias too.

    14. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      @Sega DogTagz Is that really a problem though? 

      If you don't want to put in the work, you can just button mash and accomplish the same goal.

      But people who worked for the extra combos are rewarded for it.

      There's nothing inherently lost on the player here.

    15. Patticus


      @Maxtiis You're going to need to explain that thought, because I'm not seeing the parallels at all.


    16. Maxtiis


      Metroidvania's are pretty much route memorization the game, despite most people believing they're about entirely open ended exploration. I was mostly just responding from you flatly stating that the day levels sucked with the only mention beforehand of anything regarding them being route memorization, though I'm sure you have way more to say on that subject if you wanted to.

    17. Sega DogTagz

      Sega DogTagz

      @Kuzu the Boloedge

      It basically lets players casually breeze by without experiencing what the game actually has to offer. Other action games that do the job better actually force you to at least learn a small handful of the most useful combos which in turn encourages the player to put in that time and investment and reap a better experience. Unleashed provides very little incentive to do anything than mindlessly mash the attack button, which is why the combat system is labeled shallow despite having a gluttony of offensive tactics to choose from.

    18. Patticus


      @Maxtiis They were just too fast, honestly, resulting in an incredible amount of frustration building quickly as I time and again missed all kinds of side paths on repeat plays. So, not only did you need to remember exact routes, you needed to have ridiculous reaction speeds to hit them, and the controls felt a bit sloppy too which didn't help. The end result was my enthusiasm for that half of the game, which looked so good to begin with, dwindling rapidly. I think I gave up on the ice level. Just terrible.

      I'll agree that Metroidvanias are all about exploration and sometimes a good bit of route or location memorization, but their problem is sort of the opposite to Unleashed in that you're more likely to get bored or frustrated by puzzles or goodies hidden too well than pissed off at speed-related flaws and whatnot.

    19. Maxtiis


      @Patticus I can agree with that; I remember that Mazuri stage where you had to drift around what was essentially a Mobius loop was a pain to get an S-rank on because it required you completing it within a minute I believe, and it was the fact that you had to go fast that often lead to you boosting right off the edge. But I actually think that's a positive quality unique to Unleashed, that it actually punishes you for just mindlessly boosting, making the skill ceiling a bit higher than Colors and Generations.

      The largest flaw I have with that game is the medal requirements to access levels, but that's a bit separate from the core game mechanics.

    20. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      @Sega DogTagz Yes, but the burden is on the player. Not the game. Had the Werehog forced those additional combat options on the player, I guarantee you it would have gotten a way worse rep. Keep in mind, most of the people likely to play Unleashed would have been Sonic fans, who likely never touched an action game in their life. To force them to learn these complicated actions would have just soured the experience, especially if you are a person who just wanted to get to the Day stages. 

      If you're the type of person who likes Action games, then you can just invest time into maxing out the Werehog and learning some of his more complicated actions. Its not shallow at all if you yourself said the Werehog has tons of options to choose from.

    21. Wraith


      There's a whole lot of wiggle room between forcing additional combat options and encouraging them  

    22. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      True, but...its not like you can't just open the menu and look at your combo lists.

    23. Patticus


      The Darksiders and God of War series' have also suffered from this problem - a plethora of combos, but little incentive to use them, when your stock attacks and button mashing very often will do the job just fine.

      The issue, I think, is that being presented with an expanding list of combos is at once daunting and uninteresting for many players. I personally don't want to open a menu and look at all that, spending time memorizing it; I just want to get into playing the meat of the game and have a good time.

      Combos as a concept are great, and are fine for me if I happen to accidentally perform one (I usually end up learning a couple of useful ones as I play), but the implementation (unlock combo, scour menu to find it, attempt to master during play, hope you don't forget it) requires a rethink.

    24. Waveshocker Sigma

      Waveshocker Sigma

      Okay, I see this complaint from folks all of the time and it confuses the hell out of me cause they always flip flop back and forth on their complaints for what they want out of an action game or why X game does it better than Y, yet they still don't wanna play X. I don't get it.

      I've also played fighting games all of my life alongside the platformers, actions games and everything else and like when elements of them are mixed into those, so that's an absolute non-issue for me. The kind of talk I always hear about these kind of games always seems to come from people who try to button mash or auto-combo against the CPU  and think it's fine cause it gets them through the easy and normal difficulties of fighting and action but then get mad when doing that against the hardest difficulty or real people doesn't work while also not wanting to take the time to just learn the game. I have zero sympathy for those kind of complaints.

      Worse than that, I don't understand the logic behind complaining that you don't want to use the other combos and that you just wanna mash and breeze through it, but then also complaining that you don't HAVE to and that it should be more engaging when that would mean making the game punish you FOR mashing and not comboing, which would likely have you just complain about being forced to learn combos and other strategies to progress through the game even though that's what you said you wanted. People do this all of the time and it's ass backwards as fuck. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Either you have to learn the combos and it's a challenge or you don't and it's no big deal. You can't have it both ways unless you're saying you want there to be no combos outside of the basic 3-hit one at all and for the game to still be hard and engaging action experience, which...really doesn't work in most cases.

      I'm really not understanding, what is it that these people actually want? Do they want easy and engaging gameplay but also less options to choose from? Do they want to be immersed while not having to think?

      How does THAT work?

    25. Thigolf


      What people actually want is getting as quickly and painlessly as possible through the part of the game that plays nothing like Sonic so they can play the part that actually plays like Sonic without wasting any thought and effort on something that doesn't resemble the gameplay of the series at all and probably shouldn't have been there in the first place.

      Sticking a slow ass beat 'em up into a game series about fast paced platforming automatically creates a disconnect you can't really fix. People don't want to bother to learn about some gameplay that is ridiculously far removed from the gameplay they actually want to play, but are still being forced to go through said far removed gameplay, so they desperately crave for something engaging to break their apathy and boredom.

      If some people buy a fighting game, but don't want to put up with fighting game mechanics, that's totally on them. But not wanting to put up with Beat em Ups in a Sonic game? I totally understand. And there's nothing that can fix that except removing the whole thing or at least not making the vast majority of the game about the freaking Werehog. 

    26. Maxtiis


      There's actually more day levels in Unleashed HD than night contrary to popular belief. There usually 3 acts for a day level in one area compared to 1 night level and maybe a few side missions sprinkled in the hub worlds. And unless you're just dicking around in one area between fights too long, the night levels usually average out around 15 minutes, with each day level taking between 3-5.

      Point is, the ratio of day to night is way more evenly split in the HD version.

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