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Kuzu

TSS Member
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Status Updates posted by Kuzu

  1. Ahh, nice to Shadow does in fact murder people.

     

    1. Harkofthewaa

      Harkofthewaa

      Nah, he just hacked into his account and posted Eggman's nudes to get him banned.

    2. Polkadi~☆

      Polkadi~☆

      He shouldn't have done it. Eggman's dick looks like all Tetris pieces at once.

  2. Every day I'm reminded that the Sonic fanbase is one of the most unfun places to be. 

    1. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      I'm grateful for having the privlage of being in a Sonic fansite yet not in the fanbase at the same time

    2. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      Real talk here, instead a sarcastic remark like I would usually make.

      Big, online communities tend to be pretty unfun to engage with after a while. When you're just on the peripheries or only dip your toes in every now and then they're alright, but the impersonal nature of everything online and all the different voices you're hearing make for an uncomfortable time. And you don't always realise it; you're so enthusiastic about/interested in the subject that you aren't consciously aware of all the noise that's constantly going on in the background.

      It happens with EVERY fandom. It's almost inarguably worse with Sonic because there are so many divided opinions and very few fans feel consistently satisfied with the series. And even those who do feel satisfied have to contend with the negative emotions that other people are experiencing. Two of the best times to be a Sonic were the announcements of Generations and later Mania; two games that sent almost the entire fandom into a frenzy of unmitigated excitement. But generally, yes, there's a strong undercurrent of dissatisfaction that makes the large community difficult to be a part of.

      I cope with it by being unrelentingly cynical and pessimistic. I find that to be quite cathartic, but the irony of fact that I'm spreading the very negativity I'm lamenting isn't lost of me either. The other way that I cope, and this took me years to learn, is just to distance myself from the stuff I'm not interested in our that I've exhausted. Most new Sonic-related threads on here I don't even read these days. I'm too jaded for it all. I've seen these discussions before, and I've learned to just not care.

      Of course the very best thing you can do is talk Sonic with a smaller group. Like, just a couple of people for your regular Sonic talks. Don't bother with Discord groups or whatever. Smaller groups are so much more digestible. Just my two cents 

       

      sonic sux

    3. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Its definitely annoying yea. I don't wanna be a cynical sad sac of shit, so I don't opt for that.

       

      I've just learned to not....talk to people. Distancing yourself really the only way to protect your mental state, because jeeeesus.

      I don't think people really understand how much being surrounded by so much at once is just mentally exhausting after a while, but people continue to engage.

    4. Rabbitearsblog

      Rabbitearsblog

      It can be difficult to talk about your favorite characters in a fanbase, especially when you are dealing with very rude people.  There are times where I get a bit frustrated with the Sonic fanbase, especially when they start talking about what they want to see in the next movie or the next game and then they start complaining when the things they want to see don't appear.  Now, don't get me wrong.  I'm all for people expressing their own opinions on a franchise. But for me personally, if the game or the movie is good, regardless of what content is in it, then that's good enough for me.  Like for example with the movie, I never expected them to go with the usual "road trip" movie route.  But at the end of the day, the movie was still pretty good for me.

  3. So I found out that @azoo doesn't care for Shiro Maekawa. So I say, BOO THIS MAN. BOOOOOO.

     

     

    (I don't actually think this at all)

    1. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      I mean... In terms of his storyline work, his only game plot that I really love is Zero Gravity. SA2 I like too, but I also think that SA2 hits far too many of the wrong beats as well. And his other storyline and scripts vary from average and flawed, like Heroes and Black Knight, to '06... I don't want to over-praise his work just because of nostalgia and how much I dislike the stories and scripts of Sonic games from Colours-onwards.

    2. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      I can understand not wanting to over-praise him, but at the same time his writing IS what established a lot of the popular staples for the series. Shadow probably wouldn't be as remembered as well as he is if it not for SA2, and that's likely because his story wasn't afraid of exploring things the series never touched upon before. 

      I get why it turns people off, but I really can't see what it did as wrong given the results. It's still considered one of the most definitive Sonic games almost twenty years after the fact. 

    3. Tracker_TD

      Tracker_TD

      azoo is correct though

      maekawa is largely ass

    4. Zaysho

      Zaysho

      He writes good characters but his plots suck so lol

    5. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      Sure. But it was pretty much all down hill after SA2. And we're talking about the passage of time here. SA2 brought Sonic to a whole new audience. Yes it defined Sonic for a new generation, but it also drew an awful lot of ire from the existing audience. Give it ten more years, and we'll be looking at Colours and Lost World being looked on with nostalgia and people clamouring for Kishimoto to direct Sonic games again.

    6. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      He’s good at having the sOnic cast act like actually characters and I appreciate him for taking the series in a more shonen direction. But I think we can get better writers. 

    7. azoo

      azoo

      maekawa sucks man. guy didn't like classic sonic's personality and replaced it with fuckin nothingburger sonic. 

      SA2's plot is his one good storyline but i'm willing to bet its on total accident, considering A ) its his first story, B ) the better aspects of its character interactions seem to be remnants of before he started fully commandeering how everyone was written from their previous outing(s). and C ) sa2 seemed to go through some wild ass revisions before landing on what it got.

      seriously that guy can go away forever. he wrote the silver / blaze nonsense and tries to imply shadow and maria's relationship is romantic. even 06's other writer (kiyoko yoshimura) immediately flourished the moment he was out of the picture with Unleashed. guy's a bag of stale chips

    8. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      He’s good at having the sOnic cast act like actually characters and I appreciate him for taking the series in a more shonen direction. But I think we can get better writers. 

    9. azoo

      azoo

      "actual characters" is a preeeeeeetty low bar considering you can write a cast like that and they still be, like. awful lol

    10. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Maekawa has largely defined these characters for a lot of its audience, and even Ian Flynn's writing is heavily based on his interpretations of the characters. 

      Unless you just never cared for the direction the series went in after Sonic Adventure 2, can't really think of why anyone would really have an issue with him.

      Nobody said he was perfect, but he's a significant reason why characters like Shadow are so fondly remembered, and you can't really take t hat away from him.

       

       

      Yes, the paradigm shift with SA2 drew ire from existing fans, but in itself is inevitable whenever a series decides undergo a retool. Changes like that are always going to be controversial. 

    11. azoo

      azoo

      i don't like him because out of all the games he's credited for:

      - SA2
      - Heroes
      - 06
      - Zero Gravity
      - Black Knight

      SA2 is like the only good one. It's that simple. The "shonen" angle isn't something I disagree with for Sonic, but most of the aspects of the characters I cherish the most come from the two Adventure games; the first which he didn't write, and the second being his first game he had influence on. The rest is like either a mess at best (ZG, BK), nothing at all (Heroes) or just.. awful (06).

      We can do so, so much better than this guy. For real. Lets raise our standards a bit lmao

    12. Zaysho

      Zaysho

      I didn't even know he wrote Black Knight because I thought Sonic was more like he was in SA1 so I assumed it was SA1's writer.

      I wouldn't deny what he brought to the table, since there are things he did do that I liked, but writing in Sonic games can be better than that now on all fronts and not just when he manages to give the characters something cool to do.

    13. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      The only people you can really compare him to are the other writers who have been credited; Ian Flynn, who as I said, bases his interpretations of the characters on Maekawa's, Evan Stanley, Ken Pontac and Warren Graff. 

      So while I do agree that Maekawa's writing isn't exactly perfect, he's batting a much higher average than the others at the moment. 

      By all means, its perfectly acceptable and good that we have higher standards for our writing, but uh...the alternative options haven't exactly been better. 

    14. azoo

      azoo

      you're missing Akinori Nishiyama, who wrote SA1 and Sonic Rush, Iizuka who wrote Shadow (lol), and Kiyoko Yoshimura who worked under Maekawa for 06 and was the writer for Unleashed.

      I consider SA1, Unleashed and Rush to be games with atmospheres and general direction much more suited towards what I like about Sonic than anything written under Maekawa's wings, bar SA2. 

      Ian Flynn is the best we've ever had, sure, and he does follow what was established by Sonic Team themselves, but it's worth remembering that Maekawa was not responsible for every 3D Sonic game, especially not every one of them with a good story.

    15. Wraith

      Wraith

      I think he's  solid with some pretty glaring issues when it comes down to plotting. There's probably a lot of people out there that could do a better job but none of them have worked on a Sonic game yet so

      EMNGs0TU4AAYTMN.jpg

       

    16. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      @azoo what is about Maekawa's writing that turns you off so much, and what do you think other writers have over him?

       

      I've never really gotten the impression that his writing was all that different from the other games you mentioned, but that might be my bias talking. 

    17. Wraith

      Wraith

      To illustrate how much the storytelling improved in his absence, I'll say I thought he wrote Unleashed until now

       

    18. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Are you saying the writing improved when he wasn't working on the series or....?

    19. azoo

      azoo

      Unleashed is a much more light hearted story that takes time to breathe as much as it does to move forward. The character writing isn’t a huge step up but it’s definitely nice to feel a tone throughout it less attuned to drama and more to humor. Not to say it’s lacking in dramatic moments, because it’s not (and a good story needs drama, mind), but it’s definitely different from the directions immediately preceding it. There's also a lot of neat little stories going on with the NPCs, which is a league beyond most of the happenings with them in 06 (bar like.. Sonic Man and Hatsun. I'll give Maekawa those.. if he wrote those that is, considering Yoshimura was on that game too).

      SA1, like Unleashed, has a grand adventure vibe and more often than not is playing other character interactions to humorous effect. It’s kinda hard to feel it as much when you’ve absorbed it over and over for 20 years, but Sonics impatience with Tails’ naïveté and Eggmans shenanigans, him and Knuckles popping off at each other, Bigs interactions with everyone, Eggman exploding and growling about in dialogue, etc. It also takes more time to be introspective with most of the cast besides Sonic, Eggman and Big, but not in a way that detracts from the main plot (this is particularly strong in Gamma's story, of course). Not perfect, still, but what it offers is material that I think doesn’t get shed a light on as much in Maekawa’s plots, which much moreso barrel forward and either do the bare minimum of establishing characters and stakes (Heroes) or add too much in the way of plot and cast (06). Also, again, SA1 has really fun little stories to follow with the NPCs, that really adds a flavor text to the game that lightens it up even more. It's just pleasant.

      And Rush is just fun character dynamics with a simple plot in a funky presentation. That’s kinda just what I like Sonic to be. Rush Adventure takes it further in a direction I like (the action-adventurous lighthearted journey angle I mentioned before), but unfortunately I don’t know who wrote that one. Could've been Nishiyama? He isn't credited on the Sonic wikia for writing the story to Rush OR SRA (no one is), but there was an interview near Rush 1's release where he said he did, and he was still overseer on SRA even if he didn't direct it.

  4. >how to get Sonic fans into Vtubers.

    Have Korone play Sonic games. 

    1. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      I watched a minute or two of the video in Dreadknux' article on the main site and... Yeah, no. 

    2. Zaysho

      Zaysho

      I just started with the girl who raps and I never looked back.

  5. I'm starting to think people only like Sonic voices when they talk less.

     

    1. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      I like him when he has a good voice director. 

    2. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      Well when you look at the scripts of the current games (and on several occasions in the earlier games) and how those poor actors are expected to read them out, on top of voice direction mandates, can you really blame them? A lesser game with Sonic, like a having cameo appearance, I suspect gives Roger and co more freedom in how they can approach a line since they're mostly relatively basic, not to mention not sounding like a 9 year old fan fic nor 3 year old kids show. 

      Maybe it ain't just fans hating on a VA for what they (are forced to) sound like, rather it's also hating them for what lines come out of their mouths.

    3. The Tenth Doctor

      The Tenth Doctor

      I just never liked Roger's Sonic really. He always sounded like someone's Dad trying to be young and cool. I can get some people like him but he just never sat well with me.

    4. dbzfan7

      dbzfan7

      Roger is a great actor and I really like him in other stuff, but not really his Sonic voice. Jun'ichi is still great though.

    5. Tarnish

      Tarnish

      What @The Tenth Doctor said. His Sonic is like the ultimate 'How do you do, fellow kids?' voice.

    6. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      I feel like this "he sounds like a tryhard" complaint is so played out considering I've heard the same exact thing for all of Sonic's voices at some point.

      But whatever, preferences exist. Can't do anything about that. The complaint just holds no merit for me though.

  6. Unlike Sonic leaks, Pokemon leaks are actually legit more often than not.

     

    1. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Half of me is psyched, and the other half is terrified after Sword and Shield.

      I want to return to Sinnoh again... please don't be a monkey's paw situation.

    2. Spin Attaxx

      Spin Attaxx

      You're going to get a low-budget upscaled 3DS game with less than half the content of Platinum, and you're going to fuckin' like it.

    3. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      I already know that the game isn't going to be anywhere near as good as the version of it I have in my head. Let me enjoy my thoughts before Game Freak inevitably ruin them and I have to deal with months of the fanbase complaining again. 

    4. NegaMetallix

      NegaMetallix

      giphy.gif

      This has me so conflicted. On the one hand, Pokémon Pearl was my first ever game in the series, so of course a part of me would love to return to the Sinnoh region in HD.

      On the other hand... well, modern Pokémon games kinda suck. And after playing through Sword not too long ago, I really, REALLY don't want to see Sinnoh get botched by Game Freak/TPC.

    5. Ellipsis-Ultima

      Ellipsis-Ultima

      So who's ready to get destroyed by Cynthia and her Mega Garchomp this time

  7. Question; is the reputation of Sonic's 3D games justified and have popular internet figures played a role in their negative reputation? There seems to be a back and forth on how valid some of the takes about 3D Sonic have been lately and if it was worth the exodus that occurred with Sonic 06 and onwards.

    1. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      1: mostly, 2: somewhat but not as much as some people think

    2. Piko

      Piko

      I don’t think most of the hate towards the early 3D games (pre-06) is justified. They say that the people who like them are blinded by nostalgia yet most of them got rave reviews when they released.

      Have the early 3D games aged well? No, not at all. But they’re still enjoyable and that’s what matters.

    3. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Honestly depends on the title. Though, overall, I'd say the current reputation is pretty justified all in all. None of these games are perfect (same could honestly be said for any Sonic game but hey0 and I think modern reviews reflect that without needlessly harping on certain issues (which is often a problem when some of these games first get released) or ignoring their flaws. You, of course, still have the small amount of extremes of both sides but, overall, you'll rarely see anyone go out there and make a video or something on why Unleashed is a 3/10 game or something. Shit is a lot more balanced now.

      I think this question hinges on the notion that the general consensus is still 3D Sonic = bad. Which, at least in the circles I'm in, is more of a tired joke nowadays than anything that's actually taken seriously.

      As for the exodus, well, I'm not really sure what you mean there. Do you mean the general fall the series took in the public eye or the content that was cut out moving forward?

    4. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      @Strickerx5 I meant more was Sega's response to the rampant criticism they got before by exercising the elements that were being criticized post 06 starting with Unleashed that led to the limpdick games we have right now 

    5. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Oh, then no. Nothing was worth that kneejerk reaction. Was the equivalent of throwing out an entire car because you had a flat tire.

    6. Wraith

      Wraith

      Yes and yes. There's an unfortunate lack of nuance in the discussion but that comes with discussing any game on the internet.

  8. Ugh, can't believe Mario has become some edgy Anime shlock. He was so much better when he just saved princess and jumped on goombas. And what's with the stupid buttrock music, so cringe. 1-1 is so much better. 

    Nintendo really needs to start bringing Mario back to his roots.

     

     

    1. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      is it bad that this has me hyped af

    2. Misty Milo

      Misty Milo

      @Strickerx5 No and anyone who says otherwise is a clown

      /half-joking ofc

    3. BadBehavior

      BadBehavior

      It's hilarious that Sonic spent the whole decade sanding off his rough edges to appeal to Mario players and yet not only did Mario Odyssey have honest to god rolling physics, but heres Mario and Bowser recreating the ending to Sonic Adventure 2.

      Iizuka must be kicking himself in the balls right now.

  9. Why are some Sonic fans like this...

     

    1. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Are you sure that's a Sonic fan. Just seems like an annoying person in general.

    2. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Sonic fans hate Sonic as much as non-fans do, so its hard to tell at times. 

    3. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Sigh. Alas, the line has been awfully blurred these days hasn't it?

    4. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      I hate it here. 

       

      Why is it so difficult to just enjoy things...

    5. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      You can blame people who get pleasure out of belittling optimism in anything Sonic here for starters.

    6. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      Are the countless Mario parody characters a joke to him

      MAD2011GreysNAnime.png

      Chowder_and_Mr_Fugu.png

      Luigi gura.jpg

      Sonic the Comic on Twitter: "Its the Marxio brothers, and they are about to  give you an offer you can't refuse!… "

    7. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      Berry what does any of that have to do with anything?

    8. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      I'm saying you don't see people complain about how anytime a show has a parody or reference to Mario, it's "borderline plagiarizing", do you? Like, there were many times where a guy would be at the top of a building throwing barrels while another would be bumping floating blocks in a pixelated art style and no one would bat an eye. What makes it more significant when somebody else strikes an iconic pose, running over loops and make figure eights while their running?

       

       

      ᵃⁿᵈ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ⁱ ᵍᵒ ᵃᵍᵃⁱⁿ, ᵇᵘᵗᵗⁱⁿᵍ ⁱⁿ ᵒⁿ ᵃ ᶜᵒⁿᵛᵉʳˢᵃᵗⁱᵒⁿ ʷʰᵉⁿ ⁱ ʰᵃᵛᵉⁿ'ᵗ ᵉᵛᵉⁿ ʷᵃᵗᶜʰᵉᵈ ᵗʰᵉ ˢʰᵒʷ

    9. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Uh....Berry. I hate to say it, but that's not really helping.

  10. So I completely forgot about Balan Wonderworld...has there been any info about that game at all since...the Switch trailer? 

    1. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Eh, not really.

      Like I said, looks like it COULD be interesting,  but it's definitely not the NiGHTS replacement that a lot of people were touting it to be.

    2. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      Were people ever touting it to be a NiGHTS though? They did the character design was similar, but the gameplay never looked to be.

    3. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Looks more like a Billy Hatcher successor if anything

    4. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      @Blue Blood Oh trust me, they were. I remember all the annoying holler of "ZOMG so much better than *insert X company".

  11. I've been getting a lot of amusement at Sonictubers going at each other on social media lately over their preferences for Sonic. It's entertaining. 

  12. Moving on from today's stupidity, Sonic Adventure is trending on Twitter because of....

    Its happenin.

    1. Zaysho

      Zaysho

      I hadn't noticed they even used the logo font from Sonic Adventure. That's really cool.

    2. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      You know, it actually is sad that we've gotten to the point where everyone else shows more respect for Sonic than Sega does.

  13. You know what, I don't think I have any right to talk given I was part of an RP group at some point on this site...18 year old Kuzu made some dumb mistakes. 

    1. Ryannumber1gamer

      Ryannumber1gamer

      Being apart of an RP group is hardly the same as making multiple accounts and orchestrating this elaborate fake wedding scenario for the sake of like gathering, and providing backup to yourself in topics.

    2. Wittymations

      Wittymations

      One man RP.

    3. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      The two acts really aren't comparable.

    4. PaddyFancy

      PaddyFancy

      The only RPing that I remember here as being pretty cringe was some Frozen RP. Boy that was a thing. Everyone was asking for it to be stopped.

    5. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      That's a good point actually @PaddyFancy

       

  14. This site attracts the weirdest people...

    1. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      All sites do at some point.

  15. It would appear that I was rused. THIS SHALL NOT STAND.

  16. As a black man in America, I'm neither shocked or mad about these turns of events. This country has been founded on hypocrisy and lies, they just can't hide that fact behind smokescreens anymore.

    So anyone feeling anxiety or overwhelmed, please get off of social media and meditate and focus your attention elsewhere. Destroying your mental health isn't gonna solve anything.

    1. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Over the last decade we've seen the results of fans sharing the same social platforms as official talent.

      Some of it is bad, and some of it is this lol.

    2. Zaysho

      Zaysho

      Over the last year I've learned it's rarely a dull moment with Fadel.

  17. So got a new idea for a topic, but I need to ask first: Between 2D Platformers and 3D platformers, which do y'all prefer and why?

    1. Winston

      Winston

      I probably prefer 3D platformers. I also do love me some 2D ones, especially things like DKC, but I have a lot more fun with games like Crash Bandicoot, Mario Odyssey, and the first Sonic Adventure. I think the reason is because of the movement options and being able to pull off cool moves you wouldn’t be able to in a 2D game. I guess Crash isn’t that different from a 2D game, but Twinsanity is my favorite and more in the vein of a 3D Mario.

    2. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      i think in theory i could like 3d platformers more, but in practice there are way more good 2d platformers. a third dimension adds a lot of options, but it also adds a lot of complexity, and for several reasons hasn't been explored as thoroughly as 2d. 2d's had a huge head start and there's been plenty of study and iteration to work out the kinks, plus the restrictions of 2d have their advantages.

    3. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      3D and it really isn't even close for me. Of course there are a bunch of minor things that 3D platformers usually do for me over 2D ones that pile up. Though, I'd be lying if there also probably wasn't an added bias of me having grown up in the 3D era too.

      But honestly, I think what mainly causes me to gravitate more towards them is the simple fact that you can always see ahead of you and know where you're going. It's a fundamental bonus compared to the 2D plane where things are, arguably, more trial and error than anything due to you not knowing what's coming next in a new level.

    4. Tracker_TD

      Tracker_TD

      2D games definitely take up more of my top 5 games ever list (Sonic Mania, Mario World, Super Metroid...), but then there's something like Ape Escape 3, and holy shit that is a game.

      So really to me it's less about the number of dimensions and just how well it's executed. 

    5. Wraith

      Wraith

      2D platformers are basically a solved genre at this point and thus there are a lot of really amazing games you can play. 3D platformers are cool but they have a lot of problems they never really took the time to figure out. I've always liked them less. 

    6. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      The best 3D platformers are better than the best 2D ones buuut as a whole there are more quality 2D games than 3D.

    7. JezMM

      JezMM

      Considering Sonic Unleashed manages to be one of my favourite Sonic games in spite of it's flaws, I think a game world feeling like a tangible place is of great appeal to me... and it's probably the advantage 3D has over 2D as far as my personal taste goes for that reason.

       

      I definitely agree with the over-arching theme of the comments here that 2D games are, overall, better in terms of objective quality due to their relative simplicity and prolific nature.

    8. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      The takeaway I get from is that 2D games are more focused and consistent, and have a higher bar of quality as a result. While 3D games offer more variety in terms of everything, but tend to be more a mixed bag as result

  18. Super Mario Sunshine was generally considered the black sheep of 3D Mario games...but you sure as hell wouldn't know that looking at reviews for the game. 

    I honestly get the feeling Mario games get so highly reviewed for brand recognition about as much as the quality of the games themselves. 

    1. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      even a "bad" mario game is usually still better than a lot of other games. if you just play sunshine casually it's a solid enough game, its real problems only become obvious when you dive deeper, either going for 100% or when you start thinking about the structure/progression compared to sm64.

    2. Wraith

      Wraith

      no they're just better than most games, even the lower end ones

    3. Tornado

      Tornado

      When Sunshine came out it was one of the first truly "Next gen" platformers (ignoring the Adventure games), as opposed to the PS2 continuations of things like Spyro and Crash which looked (and played) like PSX titles running at higher resolution. The only legitimate competition by the time Sunshine came out was Jak and Daxter; and on the surface SMS is perfectly fine as it is in addition to being a dramatically astoundingly better looking game than the first Jak game was.

       

       

       

       

      The heavy hitters that dominated that console generation all came out after Sunshine did.

    4. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      The first Ratchet and Clank was out by the time sunshine was too. 

    5. Tornado

      Tornado

      No it wasn't, and the first Ratchet and Clank isn't as good as Sunshine anyway. It was a heavy hitter, but it came out months after Sunshine did (so how are Sunshine's reviews supposed to reflect competition that didn't exist yet?) and even if it had existed beforehand wouldn't have made Sunshine come off as better or worse when the first Ratchet had it's own problems that stuck out more the further you dug into the game.

       

       

       

       

      Sunshine doesn't hold up very well against Going Commando or Jak II, but those came out at the end of 2003 instead of the summer of 2002.

    6. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      Paper Mario Sticker Star is the only one outlier 

    7. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      I feel the concept of Sunshine and the GameCube in general being a black sheep was never really a thing until around the time the DS released, and then during the Wii's heyday was when people began considering it all a cult classic. I guess 64 DS and NSMB felt more of a return to form for the IP to many, and brought forth more vocal people who thought strapping Mario to a water gun was a horrible idea, along with another Mario game where you can't jump (Luigi's Mansion). The GCN sold approx. eleven million consoles less than the N64, yet so many people look down on it more than the later.

       

      But those last points are likely just this video talking, which is totally not biased about anything, really

      Spoiler
      Quote

      GameCube and all it's game were terrible

       

       

    8. Tornado

      Tornado

      Quote

      I feel the concept of Sunshine and the GameCube in general being a black sheep was never really a thing until around the time the DS released

      There was no conceptual disconnect required to label the GameCube as a black sheep, because it's sales after the first 6 months or so were horrendous. By the time the DS released the Gamecube was already dead on the market and had been for nearly 2 years. Once Sony and Microsoft got in a price war with each other in 2002 the Gamecube sold so badly that Nintendo stopped making them for 9 months and then had to slash the price down to $99 (sometimes with a pack-in game or GB player) to get sales in a place where they could restart production. 3rd parties had already begun abandoning after it was on sale for only a year (which is the context for why the Capcom 5 announcement was such a big deal in the first place); and by 2003 some stores didn't bother even stocking it. 

       

      Quote

      The GCN sold approx. eleven million consoles less than the N64, yet so many people look down on it more than the later.

      The N64 only sold 11 million consoles more, but that number is still 50% more N64s than Gamecubes; despite that system having barely any games at all and a far more expensive entry price compared to its competition. The N64's stupid design decisions doomed it to an also-ran before it even came out, but it was never irrelevant on the market like the Gamecube was.

  19. So what is everyone stance on fan products versus official products? Preference for one over the other?

    1. Teoskaven

      Teoskaven

      Really depends on the context. Fan content is a good chance to expand on the source material and express the fans' creativity, but i've seen way too many times good intentions spiraling out of control.
      There's no real solution to that though, sadly, i'd rather have cancer than stuff like Nintendo shutting down stuff left and right.

    2. Tracker_TD

      Tracker_TD

      It's very, very rare that I've seen fan projects come close to the quality I'd expect from a SEGA project, even with how bad official games can be. And often the fan undertakings that impress me most are the ones built off an official product, such as Sonic 3 AIR, or all the SA1 Restoration mods. 

      Sonic Galactic impressed the hell out of me but I'm working on that now so it doesn't count . Even something widely hailed like Sonic GT really misses that mark for me; it's certainly ambitious but I genuinely cannot believe anyone on that game's dev team thought unskippable cutscenes with that writing was a good idea. 

    3. Thigolf

      Thigolf

      You can almost always make out the pretty amateur nature of a fangame when playing it, because, well, they are amateurs or just young people starting out most of the time, which is why I prefer official products most of the time. That said, a lot of games by fans just make it up with the charme and love you feel oozing out of it. It makes it easy to forgive some shortcomings because you notice every second of playing how much love and care they put into making this, despite how misguided it sometimes is. I appreciate fangames a ton because of it, even if I prefer playing official, more often than not more than professional and polished games.

      But when a passionate, loving team that also consists out of seasoned, well versed devs comes together to create something? That's sheer beauty. It's probably why I love indies so much: It's the perfect combination of people getting to do what they actually want to do but coming from a place where they have the technical know-how to deliver it in an excellent way. It's absolutely magical.

    4. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      its something that can only be judged on a case by case basis. official works have the benefit of an actual budget, professional talent, and deadlines that ensure a game will actually come out in some kind of "complete" form, but you're only really going to see one team's vision and output. fan works allow for anyone who wants to take a shot at it to put their stuff out there so a series can be explored in hundreds of different ways, but it's hard to sift through the output of hundreds of self-taught hobbyists to find things that are actually good, and even rarer to find one that actually gets completed rather than being abandoned after a promising one-level demo.

    5. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      In the case of Sonic, even if most fangames don't match the quality of offical games at their best, it is those who stand out that make me more confident in them than what Sonic has going for hin as of currently. It also helps that SEGA themselves have somewhat given them their approval, even asides from letting fanmakers in on a real game.

      Versus Nintendo, who's paranoia is their vulnerability. There's absolutely nothing written that every Nintendo fangame is personally out to get them just because it merely exists. To take action; hook, line and stinker, is to dignify them, setting the streisand effect in motion making more people likely to know about them than had their not intervined. Their additonal stance on emulation and uploading any of their content on the net forgoes the terms of fair use, and their lack of providing suitable alternatives is their undoing, but I digress. 

      In terms of fangames and freeware in general, it's clear that as more people start claim that "I get more enjoment out of this game that's free over several bigger games I wasted money on", it's best they get told why that is. With the whole lack of budget, deadlines, enforcment from executives and other practices from major businesses, ametuer developers could feel more in their confort zone even if they won't get anything back. 

    6. Wraith

      Wraith

      Even the not so great official games tend to be better than the high end fan ones. I'd expect that given the price of entry and the circumstances of their creation, but I kinda wish "They're doing it better than Sonic Team" would stop being a thing. 

    7. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      I think Thigolf pointed it out well enough; even if most fan games are nowhere near the quality of official games, you can generally feel the love and passion put into those games, and that's generally something fans appreciate, an earnest effort. That and being fan games, people will generally hold them to a lower standard.

      Official products are generally the result of corporate shenanigans and usually don't have the core fanbase in mind, often aiming for some type of focus group.  The games may be "better" but they often lack traits that fans would actually "want". And because they're meant to be professional products, their flaws tend to stick out more. 

       

      It's the "Soul vs. Soulless" meme basically, and fans will almost always gravitate to "soul" 

    8. Dejimon11

      Dejimon11

      I feel like most fan games aren’t really that good compared to the official products. I do appreciate the work that they put out to show their love for a series that inspired them but the praise they get compared to official products feel like disgruntled fans who are just mad at the parent company for the mis management of an IP. 
       

       

  20. Why do people want Hyper Sonic back again?

    1. Adamabba

      Adamabba

      pretty colors

    2. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      because they don't have it now

    3. Polkadi~☆

      Polkadi~☆

      because dragonball

    4. Rabid-Coot

      Rabid-Coot

      The screen clearing double jump is a nice bonus.

    5. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      He's fun to play as, and is a neat reward for going above and beyond just getting the Chaos Emeralds.

      That's the only reason you really need.

    6. Ryannumber1gamer
    7. Cuz

      Cuz

      🎵🎵

      Everybody was super form fighting! Those cats were fast as lightning! In fact It was a little bit frightening. But they fought with expert timing~

      It's an ancient anime art and everybody knew their part~~ 🎵

    8. Sega DogTagz

      Sega DogTagz

      SSGSS Sonic plz.

    9. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      From an narrative perspective at least, it could be pretty neat.

      Sonic is backed into a wall. Not even Super Sonic is enough to break past the odds. Somehow the Hyper form comes into play and an amazing boss battle ensues.

      The series could really stand to dive more into its DBZ influences imo.

    10. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      People spent mad time hating on Sonic for being "bad Anime" yet people want old concepts back that are basically just that.

      This fanbase continues to annoy and confuse me :V

    11. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      It's just a gameplay powerup.

      It's not too different from Mario fans wanting - I dunno - the cape feather to come back instead of getting the raccoon leaf again. A slightly better version of an existing powerup that's remembered fondly.

    12. Zaysho

      Zaysho

      I don't think it's necessary since it was really just a reward to make up for the split nature of Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, and Super functions fine as the reward when all is said and done both in narrative and gameplay. But I also think the implication that the Master Emerald could bring out the Chaos Emeralds' real power and further power up Sonic is pretty cool.

      I used to be more against it but the older I get the less I care and stuff like Game Apologist's videos give me fun stuff to think about because Sega does fuck all with anything. I just want this series to do something fun and genuinely exciting again lol

    13. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      @Dr. Mechano Well functionally speaking, its really no different from Super Sonic. 

      But NARRATIVELY speaking, it's basically Sonic's Super Saiyan 2.  So I can see the appeal of it in that sense. 

       

      That said, because its already so damn similar to the base Super form, I don't really know what benefits it offers that Super Sonic can't. So bringing it back as just a better Super form would effectively render Super Sonic meaningless. Think that's the main reason why don't bring it back.

       

    14. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      @KuzuI've always been a fan of the anime tropes the series use to deploy but yeah, there are a lot of people who don't feel the same way, like with everything in this series and life. And, ya know, weather they were listening or not Sega went and removed a lot of it from the past few titles.

      So, now that we've tried an entire decade without the anime tropes... ya know, gotta say I still fucking want them in.

      Put some beam blast up in this shit lol

    15. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      If there's one thing I've come to accept about Sonic, it's certainly an acquired taste and everyone likes the series for different reasons. 

      THAT SAID....yea, I want more Shonen shit in my Sonic...I don't really care if Boomers don't like it or Zoomers can't understand it. 

    16. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      In a world where anyone other than male hedgehogs are allowed to turn Super, letting Sonic have a bigger form than Super would still allow him to be a stand out from the side characters. Make him fly around more like he could in Egg Reverie or like Flying Mario from Galaxy, and act as a Speed-Flight-Power player all in one. Put in some unnessary but flashy new moves just to give more flavor than just Sonic but faster and invincible.

       As an almost 100% completion bonus, Hyper Sonic should tell players "You have mastered the whole game, now we'll give you something they'll rip it all apart. Enjoy."

    17. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      The fact they've restricted Super forms to just male hedgehogs has kind of eliminated the need for Sonic to have a better for huh

    18. TheOcelot

      TheOcelot

      Hyper was a nice reward for collecting the super emeralds in 3K but there's no need for it to return in future games. Athough would have been neat if Hyper (instead of Super) had been the reward for collecting the emeralds in Mania's Encore mode.

  21. You know, if Mania 2 doesn't happen...doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of splitting Classic and Modern up....

    1. Jack-ted

      Jack-ted

      You guys asked for no more crossovers between Classic and Modern, which means they should do a Mania 2, but if the team is not back... oh... we killed the chances of even Classic Sonic as playable?

    2. Wraith

      Wraith

      Not entirely. There can still be classic sonic projects. They probably won't be good but they can exist. 

    3. Thigolf

      Thigolf

      You can make Classic Merch and rake in ALL the cash

    4. Misty Milo

      Misty Milo

      Eh, if Sega aren’t interested to making a Mania successor, I don’t see them having any appetite for any G. Sonic projects in general. Reading the room, nothing signals an meaningful interest in having multiple diverse Sonic projects in motion.

      I’m honestly half-expecting them to return to only using G. Sonic for merchandise, as in the 2000s.

    5. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      I mean, would anyone be surprised? Sega going out of their way to say one thing but then completely abandoning it a few years later is pretty on brand for them.

      That being said, I do still think Mania 2 is a sure fired thing for sometime in the future. I just don’t think it’ll have most of the original team involved as they all seem to have moved on to other things iirc (so it probably won’t be good). As such, Classic is probably going to continue to be a standard fixture in the series so long as it continues to make bank.

    6. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      >Sonic Team attempt their own Mania 2, it sucks, and the Classic Sonic branch is all but dropped.

      Would be funny, ngl. 

  22. Oh, Anji is voiced by Knuckles now. That's...amusing. 

  23. OH SHIT, SONIC RPG CONCLUDED. ITS BEEN OVER FIFTEEN YEARS!!!!

    1. madalass

      madalass

      Oh, Sonic RPG was being continued too? I only ever really played FFSX. I might give it a look

    2. Ryannumber1gamer

      Ryannumber1gamer

      That's a name I have not heard in years

    3. Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon

      Oh my god. It's actually back.

    4. Polkadi~☆

      Polkadi~☆

      And right before Flash was gone forever.

    5. Ferno
    6. Polkadi~☆

      Polkadi~☆

      you weren't missing much

  24. Holy fucking shit, this looks baller.

     

    1. StaticMania

      StaticMania

      Now it just looks like a better Sonic Utopia...which is totally excellent.

    2. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Being a better Sonic Utopia is the best compliment ever tbh. 

    3. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      a̶r̶e̶ ̶w̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶c̶e̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶i̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶g̶a̶m̶e̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶i̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶t̶s̶t̶y̶l̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶c̶l̶a̶s̶s̶i̶c̶ ̶y̶e̶t̶

       

      Consider me enticed, I look forward to consuming this project when it debuts. It's so relieving to witness Tails and Knuckles feeling so right to play as in 3D space for once, and Sonic looks absolutely snazzy as well. That thrust Tails' been given is a particular standout, presumably a replacement for Sonic's jump dash to provide balance and uniqueness; I'm all for that. And I'm glad to see the potential of the "move around when digging" thing Knuckles had in ROL be realized.

      I just wish they won't change up the movesets too much from the original demos, since I thought most of their look great and do their job in carrying the player forward. (Except Tails' bomb, I'd understand if they've gotten rid of it) 

    4. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Stupidly clean.

      It's still odd to me that they felt the need to change so much from the initial build that was already pretty damn good though hey, to each their own...

      but ya know, im going to say it. classic sonic looks weird af wall running like that

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