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Kuzu

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Kuzu last won the day on April 15

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About Kuzu

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    Rougher than the Rest of them
  • Birthday 05/09/1993

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    Vadeo games, Animu, The piano, Biking, tvtropes(fuck that site).
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    Male
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    United States
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    Za Warudo

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    BlackYakuzu94
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  1. So what's your preferred version of modern Eggman? The lighthearted clownish-jerk with some redeeming qualities from the games or the joker-esc bastard that Ian Flynn tends to portray him as.

    1. Waveshocker Sigma

      Waveshocker Sigma

      Ian's portrayal 100%.

    2. E-122-Psi

      E-122-Psi

      Ian can do 'loveable' Eggman as well. Unless you've forgotten El Gran Gordo!

      I kinda prefer the lighthearted Eggman since not only do I think a villain called 'Eggman' elicits some amount of offsetting pity, I generally think there's more leeway for him there. Most real bastard Eggmen can not turn back from that, they can be funny but that's about it. Lighthearted Eggman may have more restraints but he can still be a threat as well. Even Boom Eggman I could argue was more manipulative and savvy in his dynamics with the heroes BECAUSE he was lighthearted.

    3. Diogenes

      Diogenes

      game eggman. sonic is all very silly and i don't need it to continually try to out-evil itself. game eggman's plenty dangerous but he's also a lot of fun in other ways.

    4. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      Boom!Eggman is more of a nuance than anything else, so I'm gonna have to disagree there.

      I guess a more lighthearted Eggman feels more "human", but it also lowers his threat level and it starts making Sonic look like a dick for picking on someone so obviously pathetic.

    5. E-122-Psi

      E-122-Psi

      I think the key there is to make Eggman sympathetic but still a threat in that case, it is possible to do both after all. That or just do what Boom did and give him and Sonic a chemistry which offsets Sonic's zeal against him.

      Just because a villain can't commit genocide in cold blood onscreen doesn't mean they can't pose a threat.

    6. Waveshocker Sigma

      Waveshocker Sigma

      For me, I don't want to sympathize with Eggman. I want to hate the bastard and love doing it while enjoying the fact that he's able to do such horrible things despite how silly and goofy he still is as heart and mind. That's part of what makes him such a good and formidable villain. not sympathy. It's the fact that from his look and his anme, anyone would underestimate him and they usually do until the sleep on him so hard that he actually pulls out something huge and devastating that takes them by surprise and horrifies them before reminding them of his true nature and why he needs to be stopped at all costs. He can still hav his funny and hilarious moments during all of that and on the side, but he's still the big bad for a reason.

      Plus, the visual and tonal dissonance of the Sonic series before the Modern mess of Colors came around was the exact reason it always appealed to me. That was the edge that made it interesting. It didn't care what kind of character deisgns it had or what people's preconceived notions about them would be. it'd still tell whatever kind of stories and have whatever kind of characters with whatever tones it wanted and rolled with it. Even if they were "darker" or not "role-model" material. That rebellious and carefree nature of the series is why I loved it in the past, why I enjoyed Archie, why I'm currently enjoying IDW and why I haven't enjoyed a main Sonic game or the characters in those games for about 10 years now. Among other reasons, of course.

      But yeah, that's my take in regards to this topic. I know plenty of people disagree, but that's my stance and I'm sticking with it.

    7. With Me

      With Me

      ian eggman is more fun to watch. game eggman is ineffectual lately

    8. Kuzu

      Kuzu

      The higher the threat, the less sympathy the audience is bound to have.

      You can only have a character do so many horrible things before your sympathy starts to lessen.

      Conversely, the more sympathetic a character is, the harder it is to justify fighting against them without making your protagonists looking more morally questionable.

    9. Jack out of the comics!

      Jack out of the comics!

      Ian Flynn's version of Eggman, ANY. He's just more effective, or at least you get to see how effective and destructive he is, besides being an ego jerk and a genius.

      Boom is also okay for what it is.

    10. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      I've always enjoyed seeing the goofy main villain become an actual threat/respectable character from their own convictions, but I dunno if Ian's Eggman actually hits those notes anymore outside of being a general goofy, evil antagonist. I'd take something like what the Sonic Mania shorts depict him as, someone so goofy and ridiculous that the cast constantly underestimates or mocks for fun, because they feel he isn't that big a threat in the first place, but when the cards are down and he finally reaches his endgame, it's taken with 100% gravity. Similarly, I don't want to see a difference between those moments with Eggman where he's "Just being goofy!!!" and "Now he's EVILLLL", he should have the same throughline for the entire story, and only have a change in threat level when the situation demands it and he's actually getting his way for once.

      So, probably not Ian and instead Mania Adventure's, just for the sake of semantics right now. That's the Eggman I want to see more of, or at least similar.

    11. E-122-Psi

      E-122-Psi

      Pretty much, in fact I find the dynamic more interesting when the villain has a more pitiable side since then there is investment when they actually prove to be a threat. Seeing Mania Adventures Eggman start off as a joke with funny back and forths with Sonic and then slowly gain the means to put up a real fight in the end was more three dimensional, like both sides have to put in some valour.

    12. Waveshocker Sigma

      Waveshocker Sigma

      But Mania Adventures Eggman never became that much more of a threat than he was from Episode 1. They still take him down pretty easily int he final episdoes both time with Knuckles literally taking him and Metal out in one hate fueled by his "M.E. PROTECC" rage.

    13. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      @Waveshocker Sigma: Well for one if you're basing threat level off of the past exploits of Eggman outside of the short, and outside of a 5 minute animation, then yeah, he's not all that terrifying or threatening. But I don't think going from this:

      To this:

      To this:

      Doesn't highlight exactly what I was referring to. The first episode has Eggman doing the exact same stuff as the last episode, in terms of behavior, motive, and followthrough, but the cast treats him completely differently depending on how competently his plans follow through. (And yes I'd consider Metal Sonic a part of his plan at the end; he does use his machines to get stronger/more competent in the first place)

      In Archie this doesn't really happen the same way. You just wait for the demented, cruel side of him to finally come out to play, and then you get to have your skin crawl and threat assessment set because of how eeeevil he is. Then he's back to being chipper and focusing around his ego as his brand of goofy whenever the plot demands it to round him out; not really the same thing.

      The problem is that the goofy side of Eggman as an eeevil villain is no fun, at least in terms of interactions with Sonic and the rest of the cast on a base level, since it always has to be conveyed through his own words/ego and not much else. The more comedic takes on him are and play up how ridiculous he is in more ways than one. Eggman needs to be the best of both worlds, both as a cartoon character and an antagonist of an action series, and this kind of dynamic would lend itself to that idea way better than the approach Ian takes imo

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