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Everything posted by Kuzu

  1. Come to think of it, Amy's classic design resembles Roll a lot doesn't it...

    1. Sean


      We talking Inferior Roll (classic), Superior Roll (EXE), or Superiorer Roll (Legends)?

    2. Kuzu


      Classic Roll is cute as fuck and I will not accept this slander of her good name.

    3. Sean



      Pictured: Kuzu's favorite Mega Man character

    4. Kuzu


      At least Roll still exists; what happened to Legends, oh that's right she's GONE!!

    5. Zaysho


      Personally I prefer Alia, myself.





      I'll see myself out.

    6. Sean


      Are we talking Alia before or after her upgrade

    7. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      Amy's not the one who sometimes have implied romantic thoughts for her own brother.


      And that her and his alter, non-"blood" related selves end up going through with it.

    8. Sean


      Powered Up was a mistake, actually

    9. Zaysho



      -has to check-

      Leaning towards after because I didn't know about that but I kinda like both lol

    10. Kuzu


      Alia post upgrade is indeed superior.


      But yea we uh....don't talk about implied incest.

  2. So a blue hero fights an evil mad scientist with a crazy mustache that creates killer robots. He is assisted by his sidekick who helps him fly to places that he normally can't reach. Initially opposed by a red adversary, but eventually becomes his ally but remains distant for personal reasons. Then is eventually opposed by a darker version of himself clad in black, who goes on to become an Anti-hero.


    Are we sure Mega Man and Sonic aren't cut from the same cloth....?



    1. Dejimon11


      Mega Man should be as popular as Sonic NGL

    2. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      Why do you think they made crossover comics with these two? You don't see people complaining about how Sonic rips off the former like how they complained about ripping off Mario in recent games.

    3. Conquering Storm’s Servant

      Conquering Storm’s Servant

      I’m pretty sure there was some intentional overlap with the two when they were conceptualizing Sonic.

    4. Polkadi~☆


      Both Capcom and SEGA also endorse fangames of those franchises.

  3. I kinda miss when the series had a bit of an ensemble cast before. It wasn't just about Sonic, everyone had some role to play. 

    I know that's not really conducive to a video game platformer having such a large cast, but it certainly helped the series stand out for better or worse.

    1. Wraith


      Sonic games being good or bad is generally unrelated to the size of the cast 

    2. Kuzu


      When I say "conducive" I meant, its not really ideal to have like six playable characters in one game like we did before. 

    3. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      The ensemble cast was one of the series greatest strengths and weaknesses. SEGA being SEGA managed to make the wrist if it a lot of the time, but I fucking love the extended cast of the series. Seeing them all get involved in the plot, doing their own thing and having plots that take different turns for different characters was truly fun. Everything that happens with the other characters in Forces happens off screen, whereas in games like SA1, SA2 or '06 you get a much better idea of the events and see all the story beats happen. Or you end up with something like Lost World or Generations where the extended cast does literally nothing.

    4. Wraith


      It's also much easier to endear an audience to new characters when you're allowed to see their perspective. Shadow and Silver will always have more fans than Zavok or Infinite because we got to play from their position, understand their perspective and connect with them as characters. 

    5. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      @WraithToo right. Team Sonic Racing has some great character moments simply because the characters are around and actually have involvement in what's going on, even if it's 99% talking about racing. You get moments like Silver's naivety and not understanding trash talk that just can't happen in the games the way that they are now 

    6. Kuzu


      Its why I still maintain Forces would have been far superior if it was three separate campaigns between Sonic, Shadow, and Infinite. Classic Sonic and the Avatar don't speak, and have little character to speak of. But if Infinite had his own campaign, it'd be a lot easier to actually give a damn about him.

      I remember a complaint was how the larger focus on the ensemble cast took the focus off Sonic and made him uninteresting, but now the flipside is that nobody but Sonic ever does anything anymore and nobody is satisfied

    7. Diogenes


      i have trouble imagining something i'd want less than a multiple hour campaign focused on mr i'm-not-weak's perspective

      being playable can certainly help players get attached to a character but if the material is bad it's not going to salvage them.

    8. Kuzu


      It's better than the alternative of them being literally nothing of a character. 

      Despite being one of the primary focal points of the game, we know shit about Infinite and that ultimately hurt him in the end as he ends up leaving the game anticlimactically to make room for ANOTHER Eggman final boss.

      If you're going to bother introducing these characters, the least you can do is make the audience give a shit about their existence.

    9. Wraith


      You didn't even have to humor Diogenes there because the material being better kind of goes without saying.

  4. I like Ben as Sonic, but I'm not sure I'd want him in the games. Mostly because a lot of the things people accuse Roger of as an actor wouldn't change with Ben.
  5. So is it better for a series to keep it's core fanbase in mind always or for it to try and appeal to as broad an audience as possible...

    1. Jack at the Cinema

      Jack at the Cinema

      Both? Trying different projects, for example use Mania for long time fans and new things to bring in new folks.

    2. Kuzu


      Mania is aimed almost entirely towards people who grew up on the Genesis games though. 

    3. Diogenes


      i don't think there's a singular right answer to that. some series thrive on niche appeal and have a small but fanatical following, others have massive widespread appeal but don't necessarily have that many diehard fans, most are probably somewhere in the middle trying to find a balance that works for them. dedicated fans can be a long-term source of sales if you keep them happy, but they may not be enough on their own, and in the long term you'll want to bring in new fans as some inevitably drop out. widening your target audience can bring more sales and potentially create more dedicated fans, but it's taking a risk both in trying to connect with a new audience and in risking pissing off existing fans.

      it's just something that's got to be judged on a case by case basis.

    4. Kuzu


      @Diogenes So what's your take on this when it comes to Sonic?

    5. Diogenes


      i'd say it's somewhere in the middle, but it's hard to be more specific than that. it's never been deep or unique enough to rely entirely on a hardcore fanbase, but platformers aren't exactly in high demand these days either. plus it's spent a lot of time alienating both hardcore and casual fans so there's a lot of repair work to be done in general. i would say it'd be better to go back and reexamine the genesis Sonics, figure out what made them work, and then build off that than to go off in some new direction, not specifically to appeal to long-time fans, but because it's already proven itself to appeal to at least some people. better to start with something than nothing, but it can't be only that going forward.

    6. Kuzu


      And what about the fans that are generally fans of the aesthetics and features from the Modern games?

    7. Miragnarok


      Maybe we need a Dreamcast-pandering game, to see how that works?

    8. Diogenes


      you can't please everyone all of the time. they could certainly pull some bits and pieces from various parts of the series but sonic's tried to be too many different things to consistently be everyone's favorite version of it. they've got to prioritize some things over others, and i've got more faith in the classic games than any other version, so that's what i'd recommend they focus on.

    9. Kuzu


      I can make a decent argument that the classics have been what they've been focusing, regardless of its actual quality. We just had Mania, literally the most critically acclaimed game in years which was all classic focused to begin with, both Generations and Forces have classic gameplay in it.

      You can't please everyone, that's true. But I feel like most Modern and Adventure fans are the ones getting the short end of the stick here since the series hasn't really referenced or tried anything from that era in over a decade. 

    10. Joy


      Classic Sonic is nice and defined. People know what sort of form that game should take. Mania knew it wanted to be that and is stronger for it.

      3D Sonic (let's ditch the Adventure and Modern subtitles) has been so many things now that I honestly think they need to figure out a nice flexible 3D formula that can last long-term and go with it. Forces is the ultimate conclusion of trying far too hard to cater to everyone. Create something fun and fresh and people will come. 

    11. Diogenes



      since the series hasn't really referenced or tried anything from that era in over a decade. 

      i mean the only way that's true is if having anything "classic" disqualifies it from being any amount of modern or adventure. generations is less than a decade old and it was 1/2 modern gameplay and 2/3 post-classic levels. forces had classic sonic and some classic stages/aesthetics return, but i'd say better than half of it was (likewise, regardless of actual quality) more in line with the adventure era.

      that's not to claim that adventure fans are getting the most focus now or anything, but just, well...someone's gotta get the short end. i'm not gonna jump in and fight for the parts of the series that i don't trust to be good for it.

    12. Kuzu


      I'm speaking in the broadest sense here, keep that in mind; most Adventure fans are mostly fans of the periphery stuff and the "3D gameplay". Things that Adventure era fans gravitate towards are things like Story, characters, music, graphics, etc etc.

      It's not that having classic elements disqualifies it, but there's been a huge disproportionate amount of focus on everything BUt Adventure stuff, and the first time they've tried to touch it in Years...it's Forces lol. You can kind of see why fans of that era feel a little short-changed and why they're so damn vocal.


      They're basically treated like the red-headed step children of this series; Classic is the golden baby boy of the great era, and the current era is what generally put the series back in the eye of the public. But the Adventure era is almost universally treated as some aberration of the series. 


      This is generally how Adventure fans are feeling lol. I'm not saying that you're wrong. Somebody is gonna get shortchanged here. I'm just kind of upset that it has to be the era of Sonic that I personally grew up with and was fond of lol. 

    13. Miragnarok


      And the one time they tried to appeal to us, it was the exception that proved the rule.

  6. I feel like the love for Unleashed mostly stems from the subsequent games dropping pretty much everything people actually liked about it but nothing to compensate that removal.

    So yea, the gameplay was certainly improved and that's a definite merit. But the later games also removed the hubworlds, definable locations on the planet, collectables, and the writing arguably got worse and less sincere.


    So yea, things got "better" but at the cost of the additional things that made Unleashed a unique game to begin with.

    1. Miragnarok


      Well, the exceptions being that Forces's writing saw an improvement, and Mania added a lot more detail similar to Unleashed.

    2. Soniman


      Not everything Unleashed did needed to be "improved" or put in every subsequent game. Sometimes a bad idea is just a bad idea or at least an unneeded idea and it's better to just cut that stuff out and make a more focused experienced. Even if it didn't really pan out like that in the end 

    3. Kuzu


      @Soniman If all you're going to do is just cut things without actually adding anything else to compensate, you're going to find yourself with a very bland and unappealing game. 

      Imagine if every game developer followed this mindset, that every idea that didn't work out should just be tossed out and never used again. Gaming would be extremely boring and unappealing.

      So yea, I don't really buy that reasoning that any bad idea should just be removed at all. 

    4. Soniman


      I also don't think every bad idea deserves to be in multiple games getting less bad until they're acceptable when you could've used that time on a good one from the start.

      Having less things isn't bad, a Sonic games should be as long as it needs to be to be a full filling experience. The problem is games like Forces are short, unpolished, unfocused and so there's no benefit to their smaller scale, but that doesn't mean I want to go back to big bloated 15hour games where the majority of things to do suck anyway :X

    5. Kuzu


      You're missing the point; being short isn't the issue, Sonic Mania is shorter than Colors, but it's still a better game. 

      Cutting content, but not adding anything else to compensate for it means you're inherently going to have less in your game. Wraith  said something to that effect earlier; if you're somebody that didn't care for Unleashed's ideas, you're not really going to care if they're cut or not to begin with. 

      But for someone who actually did like those ideas, you're basically saying "What you liked was bad, so fuck you" instead of advocating for those ideas to be improved upon. 


      If Unleashed has 5 things, and Colors cuts it down to 2; guess what, you got less of a game even if the things they cut were things you didn't care for. And not a lot of people are going to just accept paying for less when there was more before, even if it was flawed. 

    6. Soniman


      Well I was only ever speaking from my perspective obviously nor everyone is gonna see it how I do. If I'm paying for less because the things that were there before sucked, then yeah I'm not gonna raise a fuss about it. I should make it clear though I'm talking about going from games like 06/Unleashed to Colors/Gens when it was still an acceptable idea, not so much now where it's less about providing a more focused experienced and more just cutting corners and saving development time, so it's a moot point as Sonic Team's current output isn't satisfying anyone anyway 

    7. Kuzu


      People have been saying for YEARS that the series cutting content like that wasn't a good thing and would lead to problems in the future, and sure enough here we are lol. Those people were just silenced and ignored as "haters" and for liking the "bad" stuff. 

      This is why there's been this sudden upturn on the older games and resentment for games like Colors. The older games were certainly flawed and extremely rough around the edges, no doubt. But there was something there at least. Ever since Colors though, the games have just started to remove less and less, culminating in the soulless husk that is Sonic Forces. 



      So hopefully someone at Sonic Team realized that simply cutting content isn't going to suddenly make things better, but actually improving upon and making sure their ideas actually fucking work properly. 

    8. Stritix


      I disagree. UnleasHD's movement felt more like the Adventure games. Sonic felt like he had momentum. Generations removed any momentum and controlled more like a tank.

    9. Kuzu


      Woah, I heavily disagree with that lol. 

    10. Stritix


      UnleasHD's movement had problems but Generations fixes removed what made the movement special in the process.

    11. Miragnarok


      And yet Mania is somehow better than Colors, despite being shorter; because it has mini-games and hidden secret fun, along with five playable characters and Encore. Nintendo IP in general are very guilty of this too.

    12. Wraith


      Love of Unleashed stems from Unleashed's quality as a product. I dont get why it's hard to process that someone can like a 3D Sonic game genuinely for so many 

    13. Kuzu


      There was nowhere near this much praise for it in 2008; the general consensus was generally "Day good, Night bad" and when Colors dropped the night and kept the day, it was wholly accepted as a improvement by the majority. 

      It's only in recent years that people actually started to sing its praises like this. 

    14. Wraith


      A lot of people have had shifts in perspective on the game including myself but I didn't come to the conclusion that Unleashed was good because of dissatisfaction with the other games. I only realized how lacking those games are because I made the conscious choice to replay unleashed to begin with. 

    15. Kuzu


      That was pretty much the same point I was making lol. You replayed Unleashed and realized how much content it had compared to what came after, and your opinion of it improved as a result.

      I wasn't trying to imply anything otherwise when I made this, and it's why I pointed out to Soniman that if you liked Unleashed's ideas and content, seeing them removed in subsequent games without anything to compensate would be seen as a downgrade. 

    16. Soniman


      Look my bottom line is that I don't like it when people like games I don't like I honestly think that's fair!

    17. Wraith



      I also think it's funny how ideas from Unleashed  that everyone agrees  actually would have enhanced Colors like hubs and optional extra acts were removed but we're going on game 5 of the wisps. But bad ideas dont deserved to be humored amirite? Only good ones. 

      This is all giving the devs too much credit, assuming they were carefully considering what to keep and what to remove when in reality Sonic colors was slapped together in a year on a lower budget than previous games without any way to reuse anything they made from Unleashed even jf they wanted to. They probably had as much of a choice wrt what to keep and what to throw out as I do, but it's treated as deliberate, economic game design in colors's case. 

      I could make a whole topic about the reception of these two games and how frustrating it is.  


    18. Kuzu


      I feel like given how much money they poured into Unleashed and its subsequent middling reception just led to Sega thinking that they shouldn't have to put as much budget in the series. And Colors and Generations being such critical successes only reinforced that mindset. 

      It's an extremely frustrating thing with this series; they fall apart when they get too ambitious for their own good, but the flipside is that they don't try at all and just put something out that's simply functional for release. 

    19. Soniman


      I'm very interested to see where they go from here as they effectively killed all good will this budget formula of Sonic game once had so it's harder to fall back on as a excuse 

    20. Wraith


      I feel like putting more ambitous unique content out there is better for everyone that plays video games than just going through the motions. I understand safer bets like Colors are better for sega's profit margins but I dont really care about that as a consumer. 

    21. Kuzu


      It's certainly a complicated issue to be honest; when they were putting out ambitious and unique content, they continuously got shit for it and actively alienated the longtime fans of the classic games. But subsequently gained a niche following of people who grew up on those games. 

      It's only after "cutting the fat" that the series` reputation began to improve in the public eye, but at the cost of that aforementioned niche crowd as they're the most vocal critics. Even Mania, as great as it was, it pretty much aimed squarely at classic fans with pretty much nothing a modern fan would enjoy. And the critical reception that game got only frustrates modern fans further. 



  7. Sonic's character is fine for what this movie does, but it's a decidedly different take if you're used to his game incarnation.
  8. I just want to say that generally, when Sonic's character is flat or downplayed, its usually when he's not the focus of the story and someone else takes center stage, or generally when Sonic has to share the spotlight with other main players. Since Unleashed was kind of the example we brought up; that game is more about Chip than it is about Sonic if we're being perfectly honest.
  9. They probably shouldn't be concerned with us 20 something year olds either on the flipside. That said, I vastly prefer the Shonen influence cuz that's just the weaboo in me at work. Well even Japanese material refrain from calling Sonic traditionally heroic too. He's described as someone who doesn't go around for the sake of saving people. He's primarily an adventurer who just happens to save people along the way. That's "edgy" by Eastern standards.
  10. Sonic Unleashed in 2008: An underrated gem.

    Sonic Unleashed in 2020: An overhyped product.

    1. Wraith


      The same people who hated the game in 2008 still hate it. It's just safe for them to shit on the game here now that everyone who was stomping those arguments in the ground have moved onto greener pastures than SSMB.


    2. Kuzu


      I miss Nepenthe...

    3. Wraith


      It wasn't just her. Everyone on the Unleashed side of the debate now visits irregularly at best(azoo) and doesn't touch Sonic at all now at worst. 

    4. Soniman


      Rip Verte 

    5. JosepHenry


      I still hold Unleashed dear to my heart.

      Opinions honest to god dont change much.

      I dont care whatever complaint people have with it, Unleashed is the last sonic game i truly loved. Ambition is one thing, but heart is another and i feel unleashed does have more heart than anything after until Mania and the movie came out

    6. Kuzu


      I've noticed a lot of people who loved the 2000 era of games have just up and left this site for whatever reason.

    7. Wraith


      I think that people acting like ambition isn't a legitimate reason to love a game is silly, but even ignoring that part Sonic Unleashed is just a legitimately solid time all around. I don't have a problem saying it's one of my favorite Sonic games. It scratches itches for me in terms of difficulty, level design, aesthetic and world building that no other game in the series does.

    8. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      @Kuzu And the true Sonic fans, those of us that hate everything, have stuck around. I swear if Sonic is ever good again I'll have no reason to carry on existing.

    9. Tornado


      People have come to appreciate the ambition that Unleashed had after Sonic Team has half-assed every game since more than they have stopped appreciating whether it was any good the first place. It carries the sins of its gameplay style permeating throughout the franchise since just as much as it carries the banner of the last game in the franchise that had legitimate AAA treatment.

    10. Wraith


      @KuzuIf you like Sonic Colors then there's plenty in the other Sonic Team games retained from that game even if they're worse overall for one reason or another.

      Meanwhile there's been nothing resembling Sonic Unleashed since, so if you liked that game but don't like Colors you're shit out of luck.

    11. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      I've always hated the boost formula, so I'm not fond of Unleashed.

      I want a straight 3D platformer, not this platforming/racing hybrid engine we have now.

    12. Soniman


      As a Sonic Colors fan I hate everything about Forces so I can't say I'm being catered to really 

    13. Wraith


      You were fine with Lost World though.

    14. Kuzu


      So ignoring everyone else's words; I didn't actually get to play Unleashed until six years after it came out.


      And boy, that game was a mixed bag; I certainly liked what it tries to do, and certainly periphery elements like the world building and hub worlds were fine and I wish to see them back. And the writing had way more sincerity and emotion than it does nowadays.

      But actually playing the game was very polarizing. It's very much an experimental title and I can understand the complaints about both game play styles. Longevity is fake with medal collection, and day stages are heavily trial and error. Night stages drag on too long and can get repetitive.



      It's very much a mixed bag for me overall lol. I'd say Unleashed has better secondary elements than what came later, but it's not a game I'm in a rush to play again.

    15. Soniman


      Sonic Lost World is at least nothing like Colors gameplay wise while Forces is literally just Colors with none of its issues fixed, it's existing issues made worse and new problems that weren't there 

    16. Kuzu


      Aesthetically speaking, Lost World is definitely cribbing off Colors.

    17. Wraith


      Colors and Lost World share a lot of DNA to the point where fans of the former were the ones that were most excited for the latter and the most eager to defend it when it dropped. You can see it the most in the blocky level design and reliance on 2D but a lot of things about it even aesthetically and in it's premise boil down to taking what worked from Colors and seeing if they could push the boat out a little more on those things.

    18. Soniman


      Err. For SLW'S asthetic inspirations, Colors definitely is not what most people accuse it of aping.


      Besides one pastry themed level (even then)  it really doesn't match Colors look at all 

    19. Tornado


      I never played Lost World, but I thought it was copying UR MR GAY?

    20. Kuzu


      When Sonic Colors came out, people accused it of aping off of Mario Galaxy's aesthetic and that same complaint bleed into Lost World as well.

      Gameplay wise, they are certainly different but keep in mind, they share the same director and most of the staff as well.

    21. Indigo Rush

      Indigo Rush

      ¯\_༼ ಥ ‿ ಥ ༽_/¯

    22. PC the Hedgehog

      PC the Hedgehog

      Unleashed was the only Sonic game that, I feel, did the boost formula really well. Everything beyond it just felt watered down or hampered by subpar level design.

  11. Nowadays sure, but that's because the cultural gap is smaller than in the 90's. Remember how "americanized" Anime had become when they were brought over to the US? And even then, Shonen is primarily popular among the target demographic of teenagers as they're usually the ones raving about it on social media. Series like Dragon Ball have the benefit of newer fans coming with products like Super, and the older who are still around for the sake of nostalgia. Sonic is kind of different though, as its Shonen anime elements are mainly popular among the crowd of fans who likely came in when Sonic Adventure 2 was ported to Gamecube (Like me :V) Given most people on site are pushing 30 and above, I'd imagine most people complaining about him being a "boring" Shonen hero are ones who grew up with his American personality and never cared for the Shonen influence at all. (Or more negatively, actively see it as a hinderance)
  12. Sonic, at least as far as Japan characterizes him, has always just been a laidback Adventurer. If that's "boring" to you, then fine, but that is his personality as far as the games are concerned. If you find it annoying that the series resembles common Shonen tropes, well hey guess what demographic Shonen is? Hint: Its not the age of most of the people complaining about it on this site. Sonic's always been written differently on American soil, probably because the writers knew Japanese Shonen tropes probably wouldn't be interesting to American audiences. Sonic's "edge" is an entirely Western creation, and that's mostly why they've defaulted that characterization for the games as of late. Even in this movie, Sonic resembles a typical animated character who just wants to be acknowledged and loved rather than the confident and selfassured hero he is in the games. And that's fine, I liked it even. But the fact remains, it's an entirely different take on the character from the norm.
  13. A lot of people expected worse and came out surprised at something decent. If you're coming into the movie with a negative or apathetic mindset well...what did you expect to feel lol.
  14. Because most people who are seeing this aren't jaded fans who've invested too much time into this series. Yes, people like Sonic
  15. I can't stress this enough; but kids LOVE Sonic. I legit heard a family talking about other characters and lore related things and if characters like Amy or Knuckles will show up. 

    1. Monkey Destruction Switch

      Monkey Destruction Switch

      It's always a relief to hear he's still loved by kids.

    2. CottonCandy


      No kidding, I went to see the movie today and the kids ate it up.


      They also went crazy when they saw tails. 


    3. Sean


      A lot of kids that I taught in Korea knew and liked Sonic, too.

    4. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      And therefore, this is proof that Kids are Ruining The Sonic Franchise

    5. Cayenne


      I said this before and I will say again: people really underestimate the power of the little blue ball of spikes and his gigantic fandom. Sonic isn't just a video game mascot: he is a phenomenon. A very powerful phenomenon.

  16. I'm beginning to feel like people who have been claiming that Ben would be a better voice for Sonic than Roger haven't really considered the full implications behind that. Because he would be subjected to the same direction and script readings that people claim Roger is terrible for. 

    I'm not gonna comment on the voice itself because that's subjective, but good direction plays a significant role here too.

    1. Ferno


      Schwartz was great and the closest we've ever gotten to Drummond since Drummond himself, but tbh that just makes me wish Paramount would've reached out to Drummond to begin with since they have deeper pockets than Sega. Plus Drummond under the kind of voice direction that Schwartz got to have would've been amazing.

    2. Zaysho


      I don't really like Schwartz's voice; I think it's fine for the movie version of Sonic (who is a bit different and a more childish version of Sonic from what I've seen) but I don't think it really fits the game version. I'm not really keen on the idea of the movie having any kind of influence on the games or any offshoots of that though.

    3. Kuzu


      I like Ben's voice a lot actually and feels its appropriately energetic for a character like Sonic.

      But movie Sonic is a decidedly more childish and immature take on the character that I I don't think would translate well without a better voice director.

    4. Strickerx5


      Ben had a great showing as movie Sonic; though emphasis on the "movie" there. Sonic has no chill in the movie so it's hard for me to hear him in any other version of Sonic. I'm not saying that movie Sonic is a bad take on the character, but it also really isn't like anything we've seen before. This really just makes me hesitant on hearing Ben's take outside of this. On the other hand, we've seen Roger's ability to encompass a wide a range of emotions as the character proper so, to me, it really is more of who's directing him at this point.

      Though, one thing I'm also not seeing many people bring up in this whole current VA discussion is cost. Paramount didn't just use Ben because he was a good fit for the role. He has a rather sizable name to him that carries weight on a movie poster for the causal movie going audience and not just fans (something that I sadly don't think any other Sonic VA has... well besides Jaleel). With that name also comes a sizable cost associated with getting him in the recording booth. I'm sorry, but I can't help but slightly chuckle a bit at the notion of current day Sega paying that much every single time they want to use their own mascot.

    5. dbzfan7


      I'd take Ben over Roger any day. I'm sure as an actor he can alter himself to fit an older more chill Sonic. I doubt he will move over to the games if he costs a lot but I'd be all for it.

  17. Seeing so many children enjoy the Sonic movie made it a much better experience honestly. Kids this little blue bastard.

    And now to go back to being an angry adult about this series. Fuck them kids.

  18. The main point I was getting at wasn't simply that these characters should regress, but they then have ideals and traits that set them apart from say, the likes of Tails or Amy that make for more interesting dynamics with Sonic. Not "oh man gawd, they should fight cuz its cool" but more "Hey, these are some interesting traits that are kind of unexplored"
  19. Ok, given I'm aware that you refuse to listen to anyone else's viewpoints when it comes to these subjects, I'm not going to continue with this because its tiresome for me to do so. I just want to point out that this debate started because another user was interested in Knuckles acting like a foil to Sonic, and literally none of the stuff you were talking about was relevant to that point at all.
  20. Naw, I definitely feel like you're underselling them. Regardless of your own personal feelings on the matter, people like these characters because they aren't subservient to Sonic and have traits that are directly opposed to him, which makes for an interesting character dynamic. The reason people hate Shadow's current character isn't because he fights Sonic, but because his character is just inherently less interesting than he was before regardless.
  21. Knuckles is kind of fundamentally designed to be a foil for Sonic, so I think its underselling him a bit to just say he doesn't work because Shadow exists. Even aside from color schemes and movesets; Sonic is a laidback drifter, and Knuckles is uptight and stationary. He's a different type of foil than Shadow and I don't think the latter existing makes it redundant at all. That said, I'd probably prefer to focus on Knuckles' guardian duties again to give some type of relevance.
  22. One nondescript area that can literally be any place on the planet and only affects two characters isn't quite the same as seeing different locations and various citizens being affected by their actions.
  23. I did say this after that first post, so its not like I'm lacking in self awareness of the situation.
  24. It's certainly more with my personal preference for dynamic and rounded characterization over static and flat ones for why I feel why I do about the Six. That being said, I do agree how they're used here is much more effective than in Lost World. If only because, we can actually see the damage they're doing now rather than it merely being implied. And how each of their respective actions is evocative of their characters. So I'll give Flynn points for better showing off their over the top characters better than Lost World did.
  25. Look, we can get our britches in a bunch as much as we want, but this is well within Sonic's demographic to be contemporary to whatever is cool at the time. So really, this isn't really any different from when he was 90's incarnate back in the day, so...let's just ignore it and see it for what it is.
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