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Roarey Raccoon

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Everything posted by Roarey Raccoon

  1. No, I responded to your comment that homosexuals should make an effort to change their sexuality. If you still believe it can be done and it's just a case of some mysteriously inexplicable stubbornness then you're just a lost cause. Not that I ever tried to convince you anyway, I know ignorance when I see it XP. My purpose here is to entertain myself and others, whilst being somewhat educational. I reckon I've achieved that. Also, natural rights? The fuck?
  2. Being on ones own is different to never having sex. I know people like that exist but to want sex and deny it to yourself is just self destructive XP. I've never known anyone like that XP.
  3. If you're asexual and don't want sex that's something else but celibacy is a fight against ones desires, it is a conscious choice to avoid marriage and that entails chastity. It is very difficult to live a life without sex when you want it, akin to cutting off your penis. If anyone has managed it and isn't miserable as fuck, I'd love to know.
  4. Here's another thing which I don't think has been stressed enough. The point was brought up about effort, about making an effort to change if you're gay, making an effort to never act on the feelings that you have. You want to know what takes effort? How about telling your family that you're gay, letting your parents know that they raised a gay child, who will never give them grandchildren. You think that's easy? What if they are going to hate you for it, what if mum and dad are going to forget who you are, the child they raised, and just see your sexuality. All those memories you've had with your family will be tarnished on both sides if your parents are homophobic; all those things you did together will be tainted with GAY, GAY, GAY, that's all that's ever going to matter now. Fuck who you are, what you've done, who you love, you're just a label now, not a person. You want to talk about effort? Live with that fucking shit. How about being gay in a place where they beat you for it, or kill you for it? You think people are going to go through that hell if they can actually change who they are? A friend of mine knew a muslim family that had a gay son, he knew they would destroy him if they found out so he saved them the trouble and stuck his head in an oven. You want to talk about effort, how about making an effort to understand, love and embrace people who need your fucking help, support and understanding as fellow human beings? Sons and daughters who need their families, friends and communities are being thrown to the dogs and denied their rights because certain groups of people wont make the effort to understand and accept. You make the fucking effort.
  5. That's a very backward way of looking at it. It wouldn't have been an issue at all if they were just allowed to get married like everybody else. But no, it has to be everywhere now, for gay people to be able to live like everyone else they have to fight hell and high water to get it and have been doing for decades. Yet it's their fault for making it a public issue? Being none of anyones business in that respect wasn't my point. If you want to marry someone it is nobodys business but yours and your partners, along with anyone else you want to be involved, that's what it means to have privacy. Nobody is going to try and screw up your relationships using the law as their weapon. You cannot point fingers at the minority of people who are being spat on by the majority; that, my friend, is serious cowardice.
  6. Lol, all evidence would point towards homosexuality not being a choice. Self-preservation aside, homosexual tendencies can be observed in the very young and in the animal kingdom, where choice is not an issue. Show some evidence that homosexuality is a choice and we can debate the issue from there, but don't simply assert that it is. I'm simply not attracted to women, I never have been. Guys are a different matter entirely, I like to be close to them, I like to cuddle with a guy, I like the feeling of it. All my life I've had an affinity with guys and I barely even recognized it until I became an adult. I simply assumed I was straight because I'd never thought about sex (traumatic childhood etc, my mind was on other things). Then what do you know, I fall in love, no choice or decision about it, and it happened to be a guy. My uncle is gay and he's been quite obviously gay since he was a very young child. I don't know about being born with it or conditioned, or whether it's a mixture of the two, but it is not a concious choice, it is involuntary. Not that any of this shit matters, of course; even if it was a choice, what the fuck has it got to do with anyone else? If it was harmful and a choice I could see a reason for concern but it isn't inherantly harmful to be gay, there's simply no evidence for it whatsoever. The only way in which being gay causes harm is to the people who are gay and the people who have a problem with it and use those views to make a gay person feel utterly worthless. Well that and the physical abuse, and murder. Bottom line is it's none of anyones fucking business. Oh and actually, I've not really said everything I have to say on this matter and I assume not many people will read it but fuck it, I feel like saying it anyway. Baron isn't hating anybody, he isn't committing a crime by having the views that he has, nor is anyone else who feels this way about homosexuals. It is everyones right in an environment of free speech and expression to say what they really feel, don't begrudge people for things they say, the reason why they are said is of particular importance. This issue isn't majorly one of hate, it's of a lack of education and an instilling of certain value systems from a young age; fault doesn't lie entirely with a single person when it comes to any of our views. Everyone here has their own influences, people who have inspired them over the years and reasons for their own personal beliefs. Just chewing eachother out for it will never get us anywhere as a species. I like to mouth off in these topics because I get a lot of fun out of it, I enjoy it, I'm not trying to hurt people or saying I hate them. Well that and I'm occasionally angry when I see certain kinds of arguments that I find very intellectually and ethically frustrating. People who make a big deal about sex and not having it are often lonely and very restricted people, who live lives of guilt and self-denial. Being in daily conflict with your own nature as a human being is not easy to do, it requires community support groups and close relations (which is why churches are so popular). People who subscribe to celebacy and the like don't live a happy and free life, it's almost the same as it is for homosexuals. I truly believe homosexuals and very strict religious people have a lot in common in terms of how they feel about themselves. You just can't fight a war against human behaviour without having casualties, both physical and mental. I feel sympathy for people who have closed off their world so heavily as to stick sternly to the negative and incriminating views that they possess. The world seems such a dark and wicked place when you believe in sin. What's needed here is understanding, but so few are willing to understand, whatever side they sit on. There is no good vocalised reason for banning gay marriage, but it's not about having such external reasons, since the reasons for wanting it gone are personal to the people who think like that. It's a deeply held emotional thing, it doesn't have much at all in common with making coherant, legitimate arguments. That is why all of this is so utterly unfair, you cannot just deny rights based on feelings, that should never be how the world works. It will change, as everything always does, and both sides are legitimately inflamed about the whole thing. All I can say is, pretty much in closing, is that gay people and those who believe in supporting them will never, ever give up the fight for their rights. And we will win, as we have been winning the world over.
  7. Er can people stop posting about how they think the topic is going in the wrong direction? That'd be great, thanks. There's only so much you can say about the fact that gay marriage has been blocked, of course the bleeding issue is going to move on as to why it was blocked and that just happens to be public misconceptions as to what being gay means and what consequences the allowing of gay marriage would have. It's quite irritating to always see people making these truly pointless posts about topics themselves, either contribute to it or post somewhere else. If the topic was getting out of hand then staff would have locked it, like me for instance, and I've been posting in this for ages.
  8. Great, a TV quote, I'm totally stumped. Haha. And no, because fucking is very nice.
  9. Lol, encouraging gay people to be something they're not, ie making their lives hell and trying to turn them straight, leads to misery and even sometimes suicide. Gay people are gay, end of. Very few people can really make an effort to change that, it's as hard as a straight fundie christian turning gay. If it was about choice there'd be hardly any gay people, because of the assholes who cause everyone so much trouble over it. Especially in some countries where being gay results in the death penalty. Don't be retarded.
  10. How is a minority group a "major" cause for a decline in family values? The vast majority of people on Earth are heterosexual, so homosexuality isn't a major social factor of any kind outside of the resulting arguments from religious conflict. It is being made into a big deal when it never has to be. Also, there aren't going to be "more" homosexual relationships on some mass scale because the number of homosexuals will always be a tiny minority; you're being utterly paranoid. The relationship you illustrated between family, children and the economy is also unfounded. Births aren't in a huge state of decline right now and yet we're experiencing an economic crisis. It's actually more like the opposite effect; the more people you have in an environment of decreasing numbers of jobs leads to a strain on the economy and makes things worse. It's pretty simple to see how that would work, actually. Not only this, but how would gays being married (who are together anyway regardless of whether they're married or not) change any of that shit? No evidence for it. It doesn't matter if being gay is unchangeable or not, neither does the debate about its origins make a dent in this discussion (animals in the wild have been demonstratably homosexual). Neither does it being illogical make any difference. Love is illogical period, it's not just about reproduction, there's an awful lot more to the issue than that. You're putting the argument on very wavy and unfair terms here, not to mention irrelevent ones. You talk about truth and justice; I already answered to your argument about truth, but justice? What is just about saying two people in love cannot marry, just because you don't want them to (that's all this boils down to in the end)? This isn't about justice at all. What could be lost by a minority of people who are already together being able to say that they are together and be officially recognised? Nothing. What is there to gain? Well, it would make all that fucking bullshit "freedom" rhetoric that America spews out of its shit-crusted arse all the time a little closer to being legitimate at the very least. It would also mean other rights that gay people are being denied by refusing to recognise homosexual relationships, important rights. But those things aren't important, right, they're just disgusting faggots anyway so fuck them. Even if nothing is gained, the issue is about liberty, and the denying of that liberty with no founded reasons as to why. It is unfair, ignorant and a step in the wrong direction. Look at the european countries that have legalised it, are they going down the shitter? Is Canada? No, it doesn't fuck things up for anyone, other than making a shitload of angry, judgemental people pissed off that they didn't get to throw dirt in someone elses eye.
  11. Has a lot to do with the original topic, because the entire grounds for banning gay marriage are religious ones. The claim is that homosexuality is sinful, and it isn't. It isn't sinful in the Bible, which only ever refers to acts of sexual intercourse, which are just as sinful as heterosexual sex. Nothing is mentioned of love, homosexual or otherwise, when debates on this topic arise from your end of the issue. It's all about what you're saying is sinful and should therefore be prohibited. You're supposed to make sense, you can't just be completely full of shit and then claim that somehow because you don't provide any reasoning it doesn't mean you're wrong. Is there some magical dimension in which you're never incorrect, or the worse your argument is, the closer to the truth you are? On what plane of existence will that utter crap ever make sense? If you can demonstrate something is false via human reasoning then it is false, because human reasoning is the only form of reasoning there is, we're the only creatures who can reason. That's what truth and falsehood are all about; if you want to pass something off as true then you're going to need to back it up with some good reasons, that's just the way it is. Pulling a magical "I'm Right!" card out of your deck and throwing it on the table only shows how undedicated you are to discussion. So why on earth are you still posting? As for me arguing against any of your points, the ones I saw I've torn apart, or did you not read my posts? XP EDIT: Just to clarify the implications of your statement, you're saying that just because you can't personally prove something doesn't mean that it isn't true. Now philosophically you're correct, but we're not talking about that, this is the creation of public policies, laws, that dictate how people can live their lives. So you're essentially advocating that gay marriage should be banned for....reasons that don't need to be backed up with evidence. So the equivalent of "just because". Ehhhhhhhhh no.
  12. Hey thanks, that was out of the blue =O.

  13. The truth is something that you must be able to demonstrate, something that holds up to the most intense scrutiny imaginable. If it cannot survive challenge then it is not the truth. Your information comes from an extremely faulty source, therefore you are not talking the truth, you're just talking shit. You haven't managed to argue against any point I've made, so you're not even half as dedicated to the truth as you say you are. Lying is not cool.
  14. It is against the rules to flame people, Blacklightning, there's no "apparently". I'm glad people are saying how sly they're being, I know who to keep my eye on now ;).

  15. Hey, happy birthday man, big hugs =O.

  16. For someone with the truth you're sure having a hard time making any arguments that aren't rubbish XP.
  17. Wrong man, that's not condemning homosexuality or gay marriage. It's a brief commentary on baseness, it's just as against god's law to have straight sex outside of marriage. You've proven nothing here, because that passage doesn't say gay marriage is strictly prohibited and indecency covers a wide range of behaviours as you were prepared to admit. So here is a case of society ignoring what is inconvenient to them and focusing on the blocking of minority groups. There is no argument here to back up the banning of gay marriage, only the picking and choosing of a tiny selection of verses. It's utter piddle. In the verse you quoted, Paul is referring to sexual depravity in Roman culture as a result of their worship of Roman gods. The rampant shagging in Rome had little to do with sexuality, it's a condemnation of lust, not same-sex love, so you're wrong unfortunately =).
  18. Homosexuality isn't 'banned' in the Bible, nor is it a sin. The act of same-sex intercourse is sinful in leviticus among a shitload of other things nobody obeys or cares about today. Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, the entire Bible doesn't mention it as we know of it today. All mention of homosexuality in the Bible is a few tiny verses with reference to same-sex fucking. If you want to condemn a sexual practice on Biblical authority why don't you start with heterosexuality, the rules for which are given far more attention? Twaaaaats. Read your own shitting book.
  19. I'd say heterosexuals have done an excellent job of perverting the sanctity of marriage by themselves; dogs have been married in America XP. The whole institution is practically a joke. Didn't hurt you, did it? Trouble with you is, you claim this is a moral issue, when it isn't, and that marriage has anything to do with sanctity or a sacred bond, which it really doesn't, especially today. It's pretty hard to make a decent argument if you're completely wrong about the subject XP. What get's me is, it's okay for straight people to pervert marriage and for celebrities to make a massive song and dance about it, only to get divorced shortly afterwards; when that happens, oh they're just sinners, some people must still adhere to the rules of marriage properly, right? Nobody, however, is stopping heterosexuals getting married just because they're doing it for misguided or shitty reasons. All it is is a malformed, uneducated and hysterical double-standard. It's total shit, mate.
  20. The Bible never makes a big deal out of homosexuality, people make a big deal out of it. Jesus never even mentioned homosexuality or gay sex, not once. So fuck off already =O. Even if it is sinful, so is everything else people like to do, so what difference does it make? It's just taking advantage of an opportunity to slag off a relatively small and defenseless group that you'll never be associated with yourself; it's a power trip, which is why the whole 'gays are bad' bullshit took off so well. Oh and I'm not addressing you, Indigo. All this nonsense is about as close to the truth as my ass is to the sun.
  21. America isn't democratic, it really isn't. America does its best to destroy democracies around the globe whenever it can. Democracy in poor countries is very bad for business, you can't exploit the shit out of a democratic and stable country. Who is up for election in America? The rich, and people with certain value systems, and even then once people are elected they aren't held properly accountable. Not to mention that the country is run by the people who own the resources and own the biggest businesses, not people elected into office. America is totalitarian, not democratic. This is easily deduced from the most accessible of sources, even wikipedia: You have equal access to power? Do all Americans have the same universal freedoms and liberties? One example would be homosexuals. XP
  22. Haha, well I'm not going to chew you out for asking me a question :F. It isn't really true that there's no evidence against miracles happening, because by their very nature miracles are impossible, that's why they're called miracles. So that alone is a great reason for why they never happened. Then you have to look at your source material; it's a collection of written works compiled and edited, altered and translated over thousands of years and none of the material was written by eyewitnesses. So er, let's say you read a post by someone on the internet claiming something impossible, like they turned into a crow and flew out of their kitchen window. Would you believe it or would you look at the fact that something impossible is being claimed by someone you don't know, so you're going to assume they're full of shit. It's the same with the Bible, it mentions absolutely impossible things and nobody knows precisely who wrote everything, not to mention all these supposed events took place hundreds of years before they were wrote about. So there's no evidence whatsoever in favour of these miracles occuring, and miracles are impossible by nature (god making the impossible possible), so the evidence is massively in favour of assuming they were made-up stories passed down the grapevine from generation to generation, rather than absolute factual accounts of incredible events, the like of which have never occured in recent recorded history. We know for sure there were no fire-breathing dragons because they are a fantasy creature of legend, so we also know that there was no man who could instantly heal the sick and rise from the dead. It is absolute nonsense XP. Also, Jesus was a bit loopy, and you have to be to have that kind of ego in the first place. He'd address crowds of people who didn't know him and had no reason at all to assume he was giving a credible account and he'd tell them they were all sinners and he'd lecture them until they became so pissed off they'd try to kill him. At that point he pissed off with his disciples and moved somewhere else to do the same thing again. The bit about miracles and healing the sick is obviously cack, because there are people who claim to do the same thing today and all are obviously fakes. Go back to an earlier time when knowledge and education about the world was even worse than it is now and it's pretty easy to see how you could get large numbers of people to believe something amazing had happened when the truth was actually mundane and likely a complete deception. The thing with this is, the Bible is unfairly respected, as is all religious scripture for believers. Scripture doesn't need to provide the evidence every other source has to, it's just assumed to be absolutely truthful at face value, the more rediculous it is, the more credible it becomes to the faithful. Sorry but that's just not the way things work in the real world, which is why religion should ideally be personal and more private, without trying to justify it in open debate.
  23. True XP. I like to think of Jesus as the same as modern examples of people who have the charisma to form cult followings. There are plenty of examples of a single person having a great influence over others, to the point that followers believe their messiah is capable of miracles, despite never seeing any. Jesus was just like that, he just won the popularity race. The thing with the Bible is, at least before you get to beyond the stories of Jesus in the New Testament, it's very localised. It focuses on a relatively small number of people in a very narrow part of the world, with one tribe (Jews) being the focus. Even the Jews had a hard time believing in God and Jesus according to the Biblical account XP. So, IMO, Jesus was just a very charismatic and intelligent man who won the race for popularity as a religious celebrity.
  24. Alright lets bring this shit to some resolution here, because I think what's happening is that we essentially agree with eachother but we've been making assumptions about what we mean due to our stances on the religion issue in general. When you said religion is essential I figured you meant that religion would always be necessary or societies with morals could never exist, but from this post it looks like you meant something very different. If this is what you were getting at, that we just can't rip religion out of society because, as things are now, religion is an integral part of the world, then I agree. I've never said anywhere in this topic that religion should be outright destroyed, over a short period of time. Even if it were actually possible to do that it would be devestating for a lot of people (understatement). I mentioned earlier in the topic that people have committed suicide over losing their faith, so I fully acknowledge just how important it is for people who believe. I don't want to tear down religion, I want to have arguments with people on the subject because I enjoy it, and I'm good at it :F. Religion is losing its influence in many places around the world, things are going to change one way or the other anyway, all I want to do is tell people what I've learned and if they get something good out of it then cool. The people I debate with are never convinced by anything I say, because they're already on the defensive due to my often aggressive tactics; but people have approached me many a time in private to say they read what I wrote in topics and were convinced by my arguments. So I'm not wasting my time at least =O. You really don't think there's a good replacement for religion and that's fine, I don't know if there really is or isn't, but people can get by just fine without Jesus or Allah from what I've seen. Either way it doesn't really matter if we can or can't, because what people believe is their right, their business and I'd never dream of thinking differently about it. Just leave off all the retarded predjudice shite, quit shoving it down childrens' throats before they're old enough to think critically and stop bloody doing the job of a god and judging people; I mean it'd be pretty damn nice, wouldn't it (I don't mean you here, I mean organised religion in general)? Oh and nice quote, T XP. You do know that Einstein phrase is notoriously misquoted, right? I'll take it for granted that you do and you're just taking the michael XP. Einstein didn't believe in god :F.
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