McGroose

They have a link to their patreon which is what’s funding the game.

To put it simply, they're asking for money on Pateron. And not in a kosher way, as they have things like demos and screenshots locked behind Pateron tiers. And that's no good.

The developers got in some hot water for creating a patreon and asking for donations. They were offering access to a discord that had the demo in it IE they were  technically charging for it. The larger fangame/Sonic community took this as a danger to the fangame scene as a whole as Sega might see this and lose their tolerance for such things and take down fangames.

It's been a year since then. Sega didn't even give the game a cursory glance and the developers turned the patreon into a way to donate to their original projects. I'm not exactly sure why this discussion is still going.

I was assuming that the demos were at least directly on the patreon itself, otherwise why were people even bothering?

Putting a demo on discord and getting access to a discord via patreon is way too common for this to be worth complaining about.

@Wraith so is this another Sonic smackdown situation oooooor? 

I don't remember enough about the Sonic Smackdown situation to say honestly

i don't have any hands on experience with it, but aside from the patreon thing i have seen a fair amount of criticism of the game itself. the main issues i've seen being, the homing attack seems questionably programmed, the plane level sucks, the boss fights are poorly designed, it's poorly optimized, and it does a bad job of melding/balancing adventure and boost gameplay. personally looking in from the outside i don't see much to get excited about; while there's clearly a lot of effort put into it, it seems more flash than substance. they've taken a do-it-all engine and dropped some elaborately rendered but mediocre-to-poor levels into it, alongside some questionable new moves and gimmicks, and still falling into most of the same design pitfalls as the official games.

I'd say it wasn't sudden, it did kinda get less than positive reactions on these parts from the start. It just another one of those style-over-substance flavored games that evoke the same tired song and dance from target echo chambers in the fanbase. It's graphics and full use of cutscenes is are superb, but the actual meat-and-potatoes game suffers the same pitfalls other 3d fangames do. It fancies itself a professional fangame, yet the amateur look of it doesn't seem to match up what it these developers claim to achieve. Especially for what they intend to earn money to make.

It also features the Russian Shadow from the Sonic Zombies saga except this game is not a parody. (Have not look up if the that and all the voices have improved)

@Wraith

Smackdown also gave downloaders the option to donate money to support them. Twitter canceled it to hell and back, so now that I believe is gone

I'm pretty sure the Patreon they have up doesn't even list Sonic Omens at all so I don't think Sega could do something even if they wanted to.

because it technically contains the Dreamcast which is, by far, the superior console

Though real talk, it did genuinely have a metric fuckton of hits for franchises both new (which spawned a ridiculous amount of long running series) and old. It can also be seen as the last time AAAs were really allowed to go against the grain and experiment. Just before the industry started to really dial in on straight business practices and sticking tighter to what "works". Not to mention how you can really argue that the generation never really lost steam or started slow (a problem that is present in most other generations).

... But with that being said, I still prefer the 7th generation.

I honestly never know which generation is which without reference year or platform...

4th and 6th are my favs. 4th gen was the pinnacle of 2D games before they became synonymous with handhelds and "retro" games later on, and the 6th gen was a golden age for 3D platformers. 

Saying that though, the 5th gen is my most nostalgic one since its when I first started really paying attention to games, but it was a janky growing-pains generation looking back which keeps it from taking a top spot.

I eat and breath the SNES, and thus must throw my lot in with the 4th gen. 

4th Gen just has so many of my favorite games, from my favorite genres. It's the golden age of RPGs, and the gen that houses the best of Mega Man X, and Classic Sonic. Oh and DKC. 

Hmm... It's hard for me because there are many generations up to the most recent that can be a favorite. It's one of my favorites but isn't one at the same time.

You had a lot of series that developed into successes to this day (e.g. Ratchet & Clank, God of War, Dynasty/Samurai Warriors, Halo, Forza, Lego, Yakuza) and games that became a cult hit (e.g. Jet Set Radio/Future, Earth Defense Force, Sly Cooper, Richard Burns Rally). If PC also counts due to console ports then Half Life and Max Payne as well. Sequels that are still considered one of the best in the series (e.g. Resident Evil 4, F-Zero GX, Need for Speed Most Wanted 2005, GTA San Andreas). Also what people consider the best sports games (e.g. PES 5 and NFL 2K5). Microsoft getting into the console business and had more variety in their lineup than the Xbox One/Series.

It's also the era where 3D games started to have better controls (not always) and feel more refined. The graphics had advanced from the PS1/N64/Saturn to resemble characters rather than abstract things. It was starting to move away from arcade experiences to the longer story focused games but that era offered both, the PS3 and the Wii (7th gen) were one of the last consoles that offered contemporary arcade ports. The Dreamcast was special because it was the first console where arcade perfect ports or even better than the arcade are common due to similar hardware. Sadly the console also caused a decline in terms of the arcades, after the Dreamcast the arcades never really recovered. Probably also doesn't help that OutRun 2 aka the game that kept the arcades running just a bit longer also got an arcade perfect+ port on the Xbox...

Then again some games of that era do have a pretty bad camera and controls. Also lack of subtitles in many games (something that even carried on to 360/PS3/Wii) is a downer due to sound mixing issues. Personally not into the PS2 look where a majority of games looked like they were in grey but the Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox and of course what really started the generation with those Model 3 arcade games still hold up fine. Also Europe still got screwed in terms of games.

Oof... Didn't expect to write this much...

@Blue Blood If I'm honest I'm not keen on the generation term either because it is American biased for the majority of the run and some countries got them earlier or later (e.g. Europe). Where would you put consoles that were technically better than the competition but weaker than the next lot that came out the year after (e.g. Master System, PC Engine, Dreamcast, Wii U)? Thinking more and more especially with consoles that have different technology compared to its competitors of the same era (e.g. Wii, Switch, even PS2 compared to the Gamecube and the Xbox), it falls apart.

That’s for the limited edition. The standard from what people said is around $20

BEtter than $60  for Skyward Sword 

Remember they're planning to increase the price of games to 70 dollars so finding things at a reasonable price anymore is rare.

Oh right, that is $60.

My condolences. 

It really feels like they do these ports in cycles.

We got OoT in the GCN era, then WW with the Wii U, OoT (again) and Majora's Mask on the 3DS, then Twilight Princess also on the Wii U. Its just SS' time again I guess.

About that

From the same guys who leaked 3D Allstars, Origami King and 3D World back in March 

Do what you want with those ports ⁽ᵉˣᶜᵉᵖᵗ ᵗʰᵉ ˡᶦᵐᶦᵗᵉᵈ ᵖᵃʳᵗ ᵇᵘᵗ ᵗʰᵃᵗ'ˢ ᵘⁿᵃᵛᵒᶦᵈᵃᵇˡᵉ⁾, just don't let this whole Zelda celebration take up the majority of their E3 showing. This isn't any bias towards Zelda or anything, I personally don't want all that at the expense of variety in the show just like last weeks. Especially when a portion of it will inevitably be eaten up by Smash if both of the last fighters get revealed. 

If they put all that buzz in a separate Direct like for Mario's 35th, give a big BOTW2 tease and than say "See you at E3 for first trailer", then we're clear.

Secret Rings' motion gameplay absolutely ruined the game for me. I can at least eke out an inkling of fun out of Shadow and 06 due to their more "traditional" controls.

i've never actually played '06 so i have some interest in playing through it, just one run so i can say i've done it, that kind of thing.

shth is bad but its gameplay is probably the least bad thing about it, it's mostly mediocre-bad rather than intolerable. i might burn out doing 10 more runs of westopolis and several other repeats just trying to get to the last story though.

i don't have entirely bad memories of satsr but i think it'd be the hardest one to go back to just because the controls are...that. i could probably get through the story at least.

I'm pretty sure that's not how public domain works.

The most likely argument is that Nintendo doesn't want their brand of kinda prestige brand to be tarnished by fangames that have middling to bad quality most of the time, plus remakes of games they might want to rerelease/remake themselves, cutting off potential sales. They want to protect their properties, for better or worse.

Sonic on the other hand...well, he probably needs every bit of good will he can get, and openly embracing fans will do that. If a few Nintendo fans stop buying Mario games because Nintendo took some fangames down, there'll be still millions of people putting 60 bucks on the counter day one. Sonic doesn't seem to do too hotly, so they can't risk pissing off fans. Sonic games also don't have the same prestige Mario games do, so there isn't much to protect, honestly. 

I think that's what it comes down to. Keeping up brand image vs. keeping up goodwill with the couple fans still supporting you.

I say it's more to do with maintaining their works' exclusivity over losing the rights. It's still Nintendo's charge to say whether their work is public domain or not, yeah? Why a work be forced to lose it's copyright because of too many works infringing it in the first place?

I feel the chances of a fan game getting Nintendo to react scale with how many news article it gets. "The Original Super Mario Bros. with 100 Players" in big bold letters, covered on a dozen websites is a rough synonym for "I'm an Easy Target, Shoot Me". With that said, there've been some cases where an infringing work had made a recovery after they were shot down and stopped being "relevent" to newssites, like the SM64 PC port and AM2R.

There's a whole website dedicated to Mario fangames, which AFAIK hasn't invited the wrath of Nintendo in the 15 years it's been up, versus the mass takedowns in places like Game Jolt. Even Super Mario Crossover or Mari0, PC remakes of the original SMB that had made the rounds and have their own wiki page, are still off the hook (maybe cause they're older; Nintendo would rather DMCA fan content before it reaches their level of popularity). Mario Glitchy 4 and Logan are non game examples, yet they go as far to have actual merch (although they limit Mario's presence there). So it may either be selectiveness, or it just takes a little more than you'd think to set Nintendo off.

Also, Mega Man fangames are technically in a similar spot to Sonic's.

Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

If I were to summarize, it has more to do with any profits and ownership of their works—fan fiction and games and art are perfectly fine as long as you don’t violate copyrights and try to franchise it yourself. That’s where shit hits the fan.

I think part of it is that they realize that they won't be able to profit on fangames and if there's so much out there there would be no point into playing their own games. They're a company after all.

That and Japan is pretty strict on their copyright.

@Supah Berry eh, I don't think the SuperMarioLogan stuff holds up given that he very recently received a DMCA from Nintendo.

Tails doll really did creep me out as a kid

both bow to the king: zodick the hellhog

Both are virgins as far as I can tell

thad wario apparition

Tails Doll works better due to already having an unnatural uncanny valley feeling to him. The creepypasta is terrible, but the design in of itself gives off bad vibes.

.EXE is just cartoonishly edgy and over the top.

The more simple design choices, narrative and easy to grasp but difficult to master gameplay might play a factor here. Classic Sonic's design is rooted in the more straightforward cartoon animal archetype which is timeless and tested; as for gameplay, they really set the bar high right out of the gate, and adapting the physics heavy platforming at fast speeds is sort of a nightmare to do in 3D. Modern Sonic by comparison is fairly inconsistent with it's presentation and gameplay, so that may also play a factor there. 

I think Modern Sonic ought to be the main pillar of the franchise and I believe there's potential for a definitive 3D Sonic gameplay style, but we've yet to really reach that potential, and Classic Sonic games on the whole have already been catering to that, so it's a tough act to follow.

Heroes, by like, a MILE.

Heroes. I don't hate half of it.

Heroes without any doubt. And I don't even like Heroes that much, Lost World is just uninteresting... the Parkour could have been cool on paper though.

TBH, it might just be my favorite 3D Sonic. Levels are great, music is great, art is great, story is fun, dialogue is great even with a lot of cornyness. There's some questionable padding (making you play the campaign 4 times, when the only team that offers something actually different is the Chaotix), enemies with life bars, and the Emerald hunt only on level 2 of every world. But overall, it's a great game. 

Heroes - interesting locales, story doesn’t make me despise characters, balling soundtrack.

Lost World is almost objectively a worse game and yet, much like 06, I find myself having much more fun playing it than I do playing Heroes. Heroes has a magical way of sucking basically all the joy out of me. lmao

Heroes is more of a slow painful death. 

lost world is weird and awkward but it tries interesting things and sometimes its worth it. heroes is almost as janky, but also way less interesting and tries to stretch out already-repetitive content that's hardly worth one playthrough into four.

Heroes, easily. I'd say Heroes' presentation (stage locales, music) alone levels the entirety of Lost World. But even putting that aside, Heroes' gameplay is more straightforward/consistent and has level design that's more varied (granted, not by much). Even its "bag of chips half-filled with air" story somehow just has more going on with the stuff concerning its threads with Shadow, the Chaotix's "mystery client", and Metal Sonic pulling the strings than the half-"sitcom jokes"/half-"forced drama" mixed bag that Lost World tried.

With that said, Team Chaotix's campaign of unorthodox missions stoop pretty close to Lost World's roulette structure. But that's like, one-fourth of Heroes against Lost World's entire campaign.

And that's assuming we're comparing Heroes to the Wii U version. Lost World 3DS is pure garbage as far as I'm concerned, absolutely no contest there.

I don't particularly like either game

@KuzuFinally, the correct answer 

Heroes is a cool idea that's executed pretty well accompanied by a fun/simple story with endearing character dynamics and a cool climax. Lost world's core gameplay has potential but the game is so fucking distracted with boring and weird gimmicks on top of a shit story worthy of Pontaff's Sonic legacy that I can't even make it through the first world without giving up.

Do I have to pick?

If you put a gun to my head, and I was forced to choose, I'd probably say Heroes...and only because I have some nostalgia for it, but I'd probably just rather get my brains blown out. 

They both suffer from the usual problem of 3D Sonic games of beingly needlessly padded out while having confusing gameplay mechanics, and gimmicks. 

If nothing else, I prefer Heroes` aesthetic at least, but that's about it. 

there are many things to call heroes but "executed pretty well" is maybe the last thing i would put on that list

Having only played Lost World 3DS, yeah, there's no comparing the two. Say what you will about Sonic Heroes, but at least it dosen't ask you to stand up and spin around like a jackass to get the chaos emeralds. Seriously, what was Dimps thinking? "I know! Let's make interesting special stages then tack on 360° gyro controls! On a system you take out in public!"

I will say Heroes doesn't have any half assed elements to it such as scoring, the animal capsules supposedly being a reward for exploration even though the amount earned is nothing, wisps that amount to nothing, and other gimmicks that felt useless. Everything the game had was used to the full extent and way past what was enjoyable lol, so if not "executed well", it was "executed fully" in comparison. Makes it feel like the more complete game out of the two honestly.

Lost world is jank but I get what it was going for. Sonic Heroes is conceptually a bad idea and then everything that can go wrong execution wise does.