McGroose

It really feels like they do these ports in cycles.

We got OoT in the GCN era, then WW with the Wii U, OoT (again) and Majora's Mask on the 3DS, then Twilight Princess also on the Wii U. Its just SS' time again I guess.

About that

From the same guys who leaked 3D Allstars, Origami King and 3D World back in March 

Do what you want with those ports ⁽ᵉˣᶜᵉᵖᵗ ᵗʰᵉ ˡᶦᵐᶦᵗᵉᵈ ᵖᵃʳᵗ ᵇᵘᵗ ᵗʰᵃᵗ'ˢ ᵘⁿᵃᵛᵒᶦᵈᵃᵇˡᵉ⁾, just don't let this whole Zelda celebration take up the majority of their E3 showing. This isn't any bias towards Zelda or anything, I personally don't want all that at the expense of variety in the show just like last weeks. Especially when a portion of it will inevitably be eaten up by Smash if both of the last fighters get revealed. 

If they put all that buzz in a separate Direct like for Mario's 35th, give a big BOTW2 tease and than say "See you at E3 for first trailer", then we're clear.

Secret Rings' motion gameplay absolutely ruined the game for me. I can at least eke out an inkling of fun out of Shadow and 06 due to their more "traditional" controls.

i've never actually played '06 so i have some interest in playing through it, just one run so i can say i've done it, that kind of thing.

shth is bad but its gameplay is probably the least bad thing about it, it's mostly mediocre-bad rather than intolerable. i might burn out doing 10 more runs of westopolis and several other repeats just trying to get to the last story though.

i don't have entirely bad memories of satsr but i think it'd be the hardest one to go back to just because the controls are...that. i could probably get through the story at least.

I'm pretty sure that's not how public domain works.

The most likely argument is that Nintendo doesn't want their brand of kinda prestige brand to be tarnished by fangames that have middling to bad quality most of the time, plus remakes of games they might want to rerelease/remake themselves, cutting off potential sales. They want to protect their properties, for better or worse.

Sonic on the other hand...well, he probably needs every bit of good will he can get, and openly embracing fans will do that. If a few Nintendo fans stop buying Mario games because Nintendo took some fangames down, there'll be still millions of people putting 60 bucks on the counter day one. Sonic doesn't seem to do too hotly, so they can't risk pissing off fans. Sonic games also don't have the same prestige Mario games do, so there isn't much to protect, honestly. 

I think that's what it comes down to. Keeping up brand image vs. keeping up goodwill with the couple fans still supporting you.

I say it's more to do with maintaining their works' exclusivity over losing the rights. It's still Nintendo's charge to say whether their work is public domain or not, yeah? Why a work be forced to lose it's copyright because of too many works infringing it in the first place?

I feel the chances of a fan game getting Nintendo to react scale with how many news article it gets. "The Original Super Mario Bros. with 100 Players" in big bold letters, covered on a dozen websites is a rough synonym for "I'm an Easy Target, Shoot Me". With that said, there've been some cases where an infringing work had made a recovery after they were shot down and stopped being "relevent" to newssites, like the SM64 PC port and AM2R.

There's a whole website dedicated to Mario fangames, which AFAIK hasn't invited the wrath of Nintendo in the 15 years it's been up, versus the mass takedowns in places like Game Jolt. Even Super Mario Crossover or Mari0, PC remakes of the original SMB that had made the rounds and have their own wiki page, are still off the hook (maybe cause they're older; Nintendo would rather DMCA fan content before it reaches their level of popularity). Mario Glitchy 4 and Logan are non game examples, yet they go as far to have actual merch (although they limit Mario's presence there). So it may either be selectiveness, or it just takes a little more than you'd think to set Nintendo off.

Also, Mega Man fangames are technically in a similar spot to Sonic's.

Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

If I were to summarize, it has more to do with any profits and ownership of their works—fan fiction and games and art are perfectly fine as long as you don’t violate copyrights and try to franchise it yourself. That’s where shit hits the fan.

I think part of it is that they realize that they won't be able to profit on fangames and if there's so much out there there would be no point into playing their own games. They're a company after all.

That and Japan is pretty strict on their copyright.

@Supah Berry eh, I don't think the SuperMarioLogan stuff holds up given that he very recently received a DMCA from Nintendo.

Tails doll really did creep me out as a kid

both bow to the king: zodick the hellhog

Both are virgins as far as I can tell

thad wario apparition

Tails Doll works better due to already having an unnatural uncanny valley feeling to him. The creepypasta is terrible, but the design in of itself gives off bad vibes.

.EXE is just cartoonishly edgy and over the top.

The more simple design choices, narrative and easy to grasp but difficult to master gameplay might play a factor here. Classic Sonic's design is rooted in the more straightforward cartoon animal archetype which is timeless and tested; as for gameplay, they really set the bar high right out of the gate, and adapting the physics heavy platforming at fast speeds is sort of a nightmare to do in 3D. Modern Sonic by comparison is fairly inconsistent with it's presentation and gameplay, so that may also play a factor there. 

I think Modern Sonic ought to be the main pillar of the franchise and I believe there's potential for a definitive 3D Sonic gameplay style, but we've yet to really reach that potential, and Classic Sonic games on the whole have already been catering to that, so it's a tough act to follow.

Heroes, by like, a MILE.

Heroes. I don't hate half of it.

Heroes without any doubt. And I don't even like Heroes that much, Lost World is just uninteresting... the Parkour could have been cool on paper though.

TBH, it might just be my favorite 3D Sonic. Levels are great, music is great, art is great, story is fun, dialogue is great even with a lot of cornyness. There's some questionable padding (making you play the campaign 4 times, when the only team that offers something actually different is the Chaotix), enemies with life bars, and the Emerald hunt only on level 2 of every world. But overall, it's a great game. 

Heroes - interesting locales, story doesn’t make me despise characters, balling soundtrack.

Lost World is almost objectively a worse game and yet, much like 06, I find myself having much more fun playing it than I do playing Heroes. Heroes has a magical way of sucking basically all the joy out of me. lmao

Heroes is more of a slow painful death. 

lost world is weird and awkward but it tries interesting things and sometimes its worth it. heroes is almost as janky, but also way less interesting and tries to stretch out already-repetitive content that's hardly worth one playthrough into four.

Heroes, easily. I'd say Heroes' presentation (stage locales, music) alone levels the entirety of Lost World. But even putting that aside, Heroes' gameplay is more straightforward/consistent and has level design that's more varied (granted, not by much). Even its "bag of chips half-filled with air" story somehow just has more going on with the stuff concerning its threads with Shadow, the Chaotix's "mystery client", and Metal Sonic pulling the strings than the half-"sitcom jokes"/half-"forced drama" mixed bag that Lost World tried.

With that said, Team Chaotix's campaign of unorthodox missions stoop pretty close to Lost World's roulette structure. But that's like, one-fourth of Heroes against Lost World's entire campaign.

And that's assuming we're comparing Heroes to the Wii U version. Lost World 3DS is pure garbage as far as I'm concerned, absolutely no contest there.

I don't particularly like either game

@KuzuFinally, the correct answer 

Heroes is a cool idea that's executed pretty well accompanied by a fun/simple story with endearing character dynamics and a cool climax. Lost world's core gameplay has potential but the game is so fucking distracted with boring and weird gimmicks on top of a shit story worthy of Pontaff's Sonic legacy that I can't even make it through the first world without giving up.

Do I have to pick?

If you put a gun to my head, and I was forced to choose, I'd probably say Heroes...and only because I have some nostalgia for it, but I'd probably just rather get my brains blown out. 

They both suffer from the usual problem of 3D Sonic games of beingly needlessly padded out while having confusing gameplay mechanics, and gimmicks. 

If nothing else, I prefer Heroes` aesthetic at least, but that's about it. 

there are many things to call heroes but "executed pretty well" is maybe the last thing i would put on that list

Having only played Lost World 3DS, yeah, there's no comparing the two. Say what you will about Sonic Heroes, but at least it dosen't ask you to stand up and spin around like a jackass to get the chaos emeralds. Seriously, what was Dimps thinking? "I know! Let's make interesting special stages then tack on 360° gyro controls! On a system you take out in public!"

I will say Heroes doesn't have any half assed elements to it such as scoring, the animal capsules supposedly being a reward for exploration even though the amount earned is nothing, wisps that amount to nothing, and other gimmicks that felt useless. Everything the game had was used to the full extent and way past what was enjoyable lol, so if not "executed well", it was "executed fully" in comparison. Makes it feel like the more complete game out of the two honestly.

Lost world is jank but I get what it was going for. Sonic Heroes is conceptually a bad idea and then everything that can go wrong execution wise does.

Wait what what did they do now.

You have my support! I always go back to these stuff from time to time. The Sonic community came up with some hillarious leaks over the years.

I’d be down for that.

Sure. I thought about doing that but the only leaks I could of at the time were for Sonic Unleashed and I didn't feel like doing the research...

Sounds fine to me. The mega thread ban was more for single games coming out to spread out news and hopefully make people fight less in-between.

I would love it! Remember “Sonic Dimensions”?

We actually knew most of what this beta has to show already. It terms of Sonic 1's development, it's from relatively late on (meaning that most concepts had been cemented already and the engine was close to completion).

Green Hill and Marble are mostly similar to their final versions. Spring Yard (Sparkling) act 1 is too, but the rest of the acts are WIP. There are unused level chunks in Green Hill that resemble parts of the 8bit version. The unused tiles still exist in the final game, but in this beta it's clear exactly how they were supposed to be used.

Labyrinth act 1 lines up with what we'd seen previously in beta screenshots too, but is very incomplete as it lacks any objects, water and only has a single functioning act instead of four (Scrap Brain 3 occupies the slot for Labyrinth 4 in the final game). What's really interesting here is that not only is all the water missing, but it seems that at this point they didn't even know how they were going to implement it. There are several rooms throughout the level that have a solid brick wall pattern, and many of these line up with where bubbles are found in the final game. It would appear that, early on at least, the developers planned to have air-pocket rooms throughout the zone instead of bubbles. This wasn't possible in the end due to the way that water and palettes work. It's really interesting to see how that idea developed.

Starlight recieved a slight but very significant overhaul visually. In this beta, it has much more of a construction-site appearance with iron girders and unfinished structures making up the level. The final game replaces these tiles with simpler ones. Some of the unused graphics in the final game, such as flashing lights on top of the loops, are used in the beta. What's most interesting perhaps is how much beta Starlight happens to resemble Sky Base from S1 8bit. It's possible that Sky Base and Starlight shared the same origins in concept, and was changed late on in development in one version or the other.

The game's engine is still incomplete. Sonic sticks to ceilings when jumping for example and the camera movements are very different to the final build. Compared to beta versions of S2, CD and S3, S1 here is the first time we've seen the developing a Sonic game entirely from scratch. They're figuring out how everything works without a framework to base it on. And that's so cool, don't you think? We know that Green Hill underwent countless revisions and was worked on pretty much exclusively for six months whilst they built the engine, art etc and this Green Hill in this beta closely resembles the final game. So if any earlier versions even exist anymore, they'll probably just have less content and more differences in Green Hill and the engine.

Almost everything about the beta has been documented on The Cutting Room Floor if you're interested.

The most interesting new thing learned from the beta to me are the sprites for an unused boss...

...which reminds me of the boss sprites for the unused "R2" from Sonic CD.