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CrownSlayer’s Shadow

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Posts posted by CrownSlayer’s Shadow


  1. 23 hours ago, Kuzu said:

    Let's not pretend like we haven't had a million topics about this; there are people who genuinely think it doesn't add any value to Knuckles` character. 

    Because those same people never put any effort to actually try.

    And looking back on those millions of topics, most of them at worst say it holds no value out of spite for those who actually do. It’s no different from how this fandom usually engages topics from whether Shadow as a character is needed, to the Sonic’s Shitty Friends Syndrome, up to the petty spats against the Freedom Fighters of recent—it’s the standard MO of making up excuses over why something is useless, and then ignoring any ideas that could even remotely prove otherwise.

    It’s become so obvious at this point that it’s predictable.


  2. It was never a hinderance when they were actually using it and telling stories involving it.

    I’m surprised people who think Knuckles characterization has been suffering over the years keep thinking that the object he gets his title from is holding him back by not being involved over the same period of time.

    Honestly, how do people still even make this correlation? It’s like saying Eggman using his technology is holding his potential.


  3. Goodness, it really is a different story when I look back at these Issues I used to love reading as a kid. They’re certainly different when you look at them with a quality eye when you’re older.

    Really goes to show that Sonic sells no matter what tho.

    Also makes Ian’s work stand out even more when he takes control later. A lot more—if he hadn’t spiced things up before the reboot, I can’t say I’d feel the same way about them as I would later down the line before Worlds Collide.


  4. I know I’m a bit late on the subject, but the fact that Penders even thinks this would flow well is ridiculous even for him honestly.

    He should’ve known that wouldn’t work long before IDW even got the license given that Archie was rebooted specifically to avoid this very mess of his. The Freedom Fighters need to be re-introduced as new characters to go along with what IDW is establishing, and there is no way not to avoid that—introducing them as old characters, and in the manner he wants them, which is no doubt before they were rebooted, will not work and I’m sure Penders isn’t delusional enough not to know that...he just doesn’t care, plain and simple.
     

    And even if the Freedom Fighters were to be made main characters, they wouldn’t stay main characters as they would have to rotate that to other characters for the next arc after having their moment due to IDW’s cast structure being more fluid. So they’ll be sharing the spotlight even more than they did in Archie.


  5. 3 hours ago, DabigRG said:

    He means that there are arguably, hm, three specific areas that constitute being a rounded character.

    Servant, would you please repost your list from however long before?

    I have it by memory.

    Physiology - simply put, what a character looks like and what they can physically do. Sonic’s a blue hedgehog that can run super Sonic, Tails is an orange twin tailed fox and child prodigies, Shadow is a black and red hedgehog that can warp space and time, and that’s just keeping it brief.

    A character with only just one dimension is the equivalent of all the unnamed characters you see in Forces civilians or the unnamed background characters you see in IDW. Or just Lanolin.

    Sociology - essentially how the character lives, social status, their background, origins, etc. Knuckles lives alone in Angel Island guarding a powerful massive gemstone that has been part of his ancestral past for thousands of years, Eggman often travels the world in giant flying battleships or his Egg Mobile threatening the world with world domination, Shadow is a loner who’s past involves surviving a massacre that killed his sister figure, the Rouge is a government spy and treasure hunter who seeks all of the world’s gems.

    This second dimension would essentially be most of the named case, but some are less detailed than others. Characters like Shadow and Knuckles have a fully fleshed our backstory, others are hardly more detailed than a few sentences only serving to giving them simple motives of doing something—and you can see here where characters like Knuckles and Shadow can garner such high popularity while characters like Rouge aren’t as prominent by comparison. You can also see this is the area that the Blue Blur himself is somewhat lacking.

    All of this builds into (or rather is supposed to build into) the third dimension, their Psychology, or simply put what goes on in the character’s mind and why.  Knuckles living alone and guarding that powerful gem on his island makes him naturally distrusting of those like Rouge who land on his turf, as they would seek to steal it; his lack of living with people also lead him to be guilible and easy for someone like Eggman to trick in the past since he hasn’t been socialized to many people. Shadow’s loss of things he held dear 50 years ago by the world he was so curious of, a life he can’t get back would lead him on a quest of revenge against that very world he feels responsible. 
     

    This third dimension is less well-connected in current Sonic characters than others, and where a lot of them seem to be going through motions for the sake of motions. Sure you know Rouge is a treasure hunter that collects gems, but you don’t really know what for and why beyond their beauty—does she sell them for any kind of funds or is she simply just a collector? Heck, her angle as a government spy is more fleshed out here than her treasure hunting interests, as it plays into her character being one of stealth and infiltration. This is also where characters like Shadow stand out the absolute most compared to majority of this cast, and is also the very dimension the Deadly Six lack beyond being a group of technopaths founded by Master Zik. You can also see why I’m personally so anal about Knuckles, the Master Emerald, and Angel Island, because he could shine even more exploring this area and learning more about his past up until now, like they did in SA1.

    When you look as these three dimensions then look at the Sonic cast, you really begin to see how much of a mess things are and where they’re really missing things. A well rounded character has a stable footing all three dimensions that shapes them to the audience, and is essentially how these characters can draw their audience to who they are. But when dimensions are missing and poorly developed, then that’s where we start seeing these characters as cardboard stock cliches that far mirror far too much of the generic tropes for the sake of appearances rather than being relatable. And beyond their cool powers, or lack thereof, how do you connect to characters when you don’t really grasp their actions? What really makes that character stand out from the others among them that make them who they are and what they believe in?

    And you really get into, you also see where the frustration comes when characters act outside of what they do now compared to what they’ve done before, such as Tails randomly throwing a fit at Sonic practically out of nowhere in Lost Worlds, or not even putting up a fight in Forces; or the cast being nothing more than glorified cheerleaders in Generations; or why aliens in Shadow’s background feels so patchwork and...well, alienating, among other things.

    That’s really just a summary of things, but if you want rounded multi-dimensional characters, then these are dimensions to look into, as this is what three dimensional characters are, how they become relatable, and where you give them depth. And it’s also here where you can see the difference between the praise in works like the comics and scorn for the more recent characterizations in the games.


  6. 17 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    OP did point out everyone's most basic and consistent character traits. 

    Yes, but those basic traits pointed out are just but one dimension of each character. Most people don’t understand enough to know what makes a character’s second or third dimension, which probably contributes somewhat to Sega’s intent on characterization to market them.


  7. 15 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

    If this writing issue is just forever stuck to her with even more cohesive writers and story tellers, imagine how it could end up in the games. Imagine Sally's designated hero status being translated in an even more slapdash story.

    Well, pick your poison here—which would match your standards more, her portrayal with cohesive writers or those in the hands of more slapdash ones?

    I’m as massive a fan of the comics as you are, having grown up with her since I was a kid, but I recognize there are trade-offs that will bring elements different to what I’m used to based on where and how things are adapted. So it’s a matter of which fits my preferences more.


  8. 21 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

    Well, yeah. And that's my problem. If a comic with WAY more elaborate story focus couldn't get what was needed to make her work properly, what hopes are there for the games?

    Then that’s gonna be your first mistake towards any potential of her being brought back, and you’ll forever have problems with the character going forward.

    There’s different ways of making a character work properly, and not all of them will be able to have everything you desire. We should’ve learned that the first time Archie was rebooted before being cancelled and replaced by IDW, because that was when Sally was given a fresh new take on her character, and that was by intention—she was never going to be the way she was in the past, and needed to adapt to the present. Similar to how Sonic was modified come his first actual major 3D game with SA1 and gradually changed over time while still (somewhat) keeping the bare minimum of what he’s known for as a character.


  9. 51 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

    Sooo, a common complaint with Sonic characters, even among fans, is how basic and 2 dimensional their characters are? As if there's not enough there or there's just...only enough there to actually be a character worth focus.

    First things first: do people even know what those 2 dimensions are and what makes a 3 dimensional character?

    Because far too often they throw them around like buzzwords for things they like and things they don’t like. I’m hear to tell people right now that, if they want these characters to be more than the cardboard portrayals that they see them as, then there is a definition of these dimensions to understand before that can even be achieved.

     


  10. If Sally were to be brought back, do you honestly think they’d even consider those nuances of her character?

    Because at the very least, if that were to be a thing, she’d have the bare minimum of what she’s recognized for, barring her romantic angle with Sonic. 


  11. 7 hours ago, Zulon Eredas said:

    Yes. The Nazi symbolism was really suitable for a children's comic book. 😬

    It’s not like children’s media has never explored Nazi symbolism before, dude.
     

    This stuff isn’t new—we’ve been doing it for decades ever since Nazi’s were even a thing. It’s time we stop pretending what Sonic’s doing is something shocking and inappropriate in children’s fiction, especially when this current comic just finished an arc dealing with an apocalypse from a straight up bio weapon.


  12. It’s about the only time Sonic will get married and settle down in an official work. Hurray for SonicXSally!

    But yeah, I don’t particularly need it in the games even if Sally were to become adapted into them. Though I did like the perspective of them having a relationship, one with ups and downs before becoming more healthy, as well as the perspective of “what if Eggman was defeated for good” when Ian took the reins.

    If they do decide to bring back Sally, the bare minimum of her character is still enough to flesh out in a new direction while still keeping her familiar. 


  13. Wha...what the fuck?

    I know 2020 has been weird, but this is really pushing it. This sounds too much like a conspiracy theory.

    ...then again, I said the same thing about Trump sending federal troops to antagonize cities, and even that turned out to be true.


  14. If you really want her back, your best bet would be to demand her to appear in IDW Sonic.

    And I would actually like to see what she could do in a more game focused setting along with her whole species. Not like we don’t have aliens already anyway.


  15. 8 hours ago, DabigRG said:

    It's worth noting that Bollers originally intended for that to legitimately be Antoine affected by Sonic's absence in space, but Penders pushed the assassination and wedding stuff to reveal Patch had replaced him because I guess people weren't fond of him being that way.

    Hindsight really hates Penders with a passion.

    Makes me wonder how things would be were Bollers the one in charge of things instead.

     


  16. 15 hours ago, Adamis said:

    No. Not everyone can write for an official book, that's expected to be well-written. What you're saying is disrespectful to actual writers.

    You can't take random notes, put them together in InDesign and call it a day, to release such a book.

    Plus, that same logic is why Pontac and Graff have such a poor reputation when it comes to writing for the games while Flynn is more well received by contrast due to knowing the games and characters more intimately.


  17. 41 minutes ago, peliukun said:

    You not seeing it as a plothole while others do is the very definition of a subjective opinion because this is your view verses theirs.

    Except, again, it’s not a plothole.

    Kuzu already gave the definition of what a plothole is, and a character failing to act on something and suffering consequences from that is, by definition, not a plothole. And there is nothing subjective about it regardless of anyone’s opinion on the matter—that Shadow logically could’ve saved Maria doesn’t make it a plothole anymore than the fact that he didn’t save her, because that’s literally not how that works no matter how you go about it.

    Like this isn’t rocket science. If put another way, a plothole is the mistake of the writer, not the character—and no, twisting that to mean the writer intentionally made the character make a mistake to move the story along doesn’t make it a plothole either.


  18. 1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

    The entire nature of this discussion is subjective.

    Not really. And I’d advise you to look up what the word subjective means because Shadow failing to save Maria is anything but.

    EDIT: and if you spent less time trying to be right for the sake of being right and more on actually learning these things you’d understand how to respond to this better.


  19. 14 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

    ...You... You can argue whether something qualifies as something...

    ... You know art is subjective right?

    A plothole isn’t subjective.

    Stick to the subject...

     

    Quote

    “You know these are terms and define whether it applies.

    ...Its important to me you know this. Please say yes. 
     

    These terms actually have strict definitions, and don’t mean whatever you want them to mean based on how you or I feel about them. So no.


  20. 4 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

     

    I'm done.

    You all have fun.  I have no interest in arguing the subjective nature of who finds what value in art. I don't.

     

    You’re literally arguing over what is and isn’t a plothole after it was already spelled out for you—there is nothing subjective about that.

    But you do you.

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