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Everything posted by StriCNYN3

  1. Fair enough @Sonic Fan J and the rest of yall About the Death Egg, I visualize it like a totaled car, where you still see like the husk of it but it's still considered completely destroyed unless one wants to be overly pedantic on terminology. Then it was just a matter of Eggman rebuilding it in the amount of days he had as he would have to along with the rest that he wanted to do on the island, but anyway. Yea I'll let the whole thing go since I guess at the end of the day, what I'm saying is just circumstantial. Not gonna lie tho, it's still irks me that considering this is the 3rd iteration of relatively simple, black and white children's game where out of the 4 casts members on an island with emeralds, 1 of the members being evil who has a history of wanting to steal, admitting he wants to steal again, is stated in game to take action to steal, then with his big evil plans mysteriously succeeding right when the emeralds are missing, but then his same plans starts failing on him just at the right time those emeralds can be found again later on.... I feel like we're giving too much of a blind eye on that amount of evidence, because it's not like we don't know their perspectives. It's all shared in the 3rd person with them openly admitting what their goals are in the manual and explored more in game. It just adds up to me, especially considering the counter evidence. Like how the US manual says Chaos Emeralds makes the island float like it's the only gems in the game. That's wrong going by the actual game events and already makes that source less credible. But I've already stressed this enough too many times I know you guys are already tired of that lol. I'll def leave it alone and will probably come up with a another question another time.
  2. Yo @Diogenes... All of the questions you're bringing up are easily answered if you just read the Jap manual of Sonic 3&K on Sonic Retro and play the game for yourself. I've tried telling you everything with written and visual evidence, but it's just going in circles. You're mixing up what you remember from Sonic 3 and at the same time, trying to poke holes into a manual's story that you evidently haven't even fully read or understood the context of yourself, and then mixing up the US version of the story that clearly has errors. Chaos Emeralds working the same as the Master Emerald to float the Angel Island? And that's evidence for the Death Egg? Come on now, do you seriously think that's the case for any Sonic game, let alone what the in-game cutscenes of Sonic 3&K tell you, or are you being disingenuous? I just told you how the Chaos emeralds don't keep the Islands a float like like Master Emeralds do.... but here we are.... I don't know why you took it upon yourself to try to answer me when this wasn't even in reply to you to begin with and then clearly you're not even doing your part in reading what's being brought to you, but I did not come here to argue with you about what you want to believe what the manual says and what the game does. Because that's all you're doing. Fighting the story of the manual I presented with your head canon. All of a sudden the Death Egg doesn't need thrusters to start off and fly? Says who? You? Mind you, that was an extreme close up of the Death Egg in Launch Base Zone, and you're comparing a far shot of the same Death Egg from Sky Sanctuary and Lava Reef which were already launched way up above for the thrusters to even matter... but I'll get more into that in a second... Dinky explosions of Sonic 2's Death Egg? You mean the Sega Genesis 16-bit cartridge video game of the early 90's this is all seen in? Where the Jap manual of Sonic3 deliberately says it got thoroughly destroyed which you keep ignoring? This is your argument? Don't even start with that. Also, did you just somehow not see the giant star bomb all the animals and Tails saw from ground level into freaking space? This dinky explosion?... ...The scene I told you to watch and gave you a time stamp of specifically for what I meant? This is what I'm talking about. You're just being to busy being so quick to be a contrarian with your head canon instead of looking at what I've got to say and show. The evidence is there. There's no refuting this. This is your head canon you're arguing with. But back on to the Death Egg argument.... Clearly the game showing the thrusters of the Death Egg is how it get's launched in LAUNCH BASE Zone. Never mind the fact that you're once again mixing scenarios up. By that point of Sky Sanctuary and Lava Reef Zone where you see the Death Egg alone for your argument.... That's the end of Sonic and Knuckles where Eggman had the Master Emerald, not the Chaos Emeralds. This is not Sonic 3! This is a complete false equivalence and is a completely moot argument. Again, let me be more clear. Your point about "Eggman takes the Master Emerald for the Death Egg".... Yes, after the fact he wanted and got the Chaos Emeralds, as I've already said plenty times. If you had read the manual I keep telling you about, you would know that all of this manual's story is set in the beginning of Sonic 3. Eggman does NOT take the Master Emerald until way later in the game, which is Sonic & Knuckles's end portion. You can see that by how Angel Island is not sunken described in the manual. You can see that in-game when you get to the Sonic and Knuckles portion of the game where the Master Emeralds rests in Lave Reef Zone's Altar when going to the Special Zones... but guess what you don't see with the Master Emerald when going to the Special Zones when just coming from Sonic 3? The Super Emeralds aka Angel Island Chaos Emeralds. So tell me again how the Death Egg is beginning to go up and orbit again in Sonic 3's portion in Launch Base Zone if Eggman doesn't have them yet with him saying he needs them for anything to start up again? Because the game is clearly telling you they're missing from the start and now all of a sudden the Death Egg is going into orbit again.... Again, you seem to keep ignoring every time I bring this up... The Chaos Emeralds Mysteriously Vanished from the Altar when Knuckles wakes up from being unconscious, notices they're all missing and searches for days for them (Which you keep trying to question the validity of what the manual itself says. Did you forget that Angel Island is... idk.... an island and is a very huge place at that? The Death Egg doesn't just eclipse the entire island like you're describing where it's just "noticeable everywhere". Yea The Death Egg is huge also, but you're solely reaching and purposefully ignoring what the manual says about the situation for your head canon of what you want Sonic to be to work. In Sonic & Knuckles's game intro, it's clearly seen to be only as sizable as Lava Reef Zone is (The Volcano it crash landed on) which is on one side of the Island!There're plenty more zones and areas on Angel Island that's not even shown in that screen shot because it's just. That. Big of an island!.... And that's just the surface of the island for crying out loud. Again, read the manual or you wouldn't be questioning this)... But back on the the emeralds mysteriously vanishing... what does Knuckles find instead after days of searching for the emeralds under and on top the island like said in the manual? The previously destroyed Death Egg which is now on the lake side of the Island aka Launch Base Zone, and then Eggman.... ...You can't put the two together and see that Eggman took the Chaos Emeralds there? The main evil scientific and greedy antagonists of Sonic the Hedgehog who literally says he wants those Chaos Emeralds in the beginning of Sonic 3? Does the manual literally have to hand hold the audience and say "And at that moment when the emeralds vanished, Eggman took it all for himself"? Like seriously? This is why this seems you're coming off as disingenuous or somehow actually coming across as believing the Chaos Emeralds just grew legs and left, because this should not be this hard to grasp, but let's break it down further: 1: Destroyed Death Egg of Sonic 2 Crash Lands on Angel Island's earth area and can't function. 2: Angel Island Chaos Emeralds from altar mysteriously vanish afterwards. 3: Death Egg is now in new lake area of Angel Island aka Launch Base Zone. 4: Eggman is now seen and lies about Sonic having the missing Chaos Emeralds to Knuckles. Are we clear now? At any case, I'm done, because again, I did not come here to argue about the many ways you could spin new random preconditions and rules on what the game actually deliberately tells us through manual and in game cutscenes, and I don't want to stink up this thread. You keep trying to act like this is up to my interpretation. I'm literally just reading the manual that I gave you a source of for yourself.... to which evidently you had no idea of but feel the need to keep questioning me like I wrote it. That's all. I really don't want this to escalate anymore but it's really coming across as you just ignoring what I'm pointing to you from the manual and in-game cutscenes like I'm crazy despite me constantly showing proof while you're blatantly just failing to see how your own questions of the manual can be easily answered if you re-familiarized yourself with the game, read the Jap manual and even the US manual more clearly and fully, stop using head canon to dissuade actual points and events stated and shown in the manual and game and read what people have to say instead of glimpsing over them... Because again, "dinky explosions" and "The Death Egg didn't fly the way I wanted to despite being a whole different scenario" are not arguments and are explained in game and manual what things actually are. So yea, any ill will or anything you may or may not feel, I apologize in advance and will just check out what you gotta say from afar because I got things to do now and spent waaaaay to much time on Sonic and all this right now lol. Peace out.
  3. No, that's just twisting the narrative. What the Jap manual actually says is this: Long ago, back when the island was still part of a continent. People of an exceptional civilization lived there. That civilization built a peaceful and wealthy society by the energy of certain "power stones." However at one point, when a faction of elders tried to make the energy of the "power stones" theirs, they accidentally made that energy go awry. The civilization was destroyed in an instant, and vanished from history. And after this incident... It is said that the gods that came down from the sky restored part of the civilization as an "island," and released it into the sky along with the "power stones." This is Sonic's perspective of what he recalls the legend of the Angel Island to be. This is not the game telling you this is how all the emeralds function. No, because this is what it says afterwards, starting off from where you left off: Dr. Eggman, who escaped from the fallen Death Egg, was aware that the Chaos Emeralds were on the floating island. He could catch a signal of a huge Chaos Emerald from a crack in the earth opened by the Death Egg. Using that energy, it is possible to let the Death Egg fly out into space again. Dr. Eggman started building a base on the floating island at a quick pace in order to obtain the Chaos Emeralds. They're clearly referring to Eggman getting the Chaos Emeralds and not the Mater Emerald. Not only that, the Master Emerald was clearly untouched the whole time in Sonic 3's portion, as you can see when you eventually go after the Super Emeralds, and the Master emerald is clearly shown to have different properties in game, where when that's taken away, The Island falls, but when the Super Emeralds are all there at the Altar but NOT the Master Emerald, the Island is still at the risk of falling because that's not what those emeralds' duties are. Yo, you're literally trying to tell me the Chaos Emeralds are the same as the Master Emerald? No. That's completely wrong.Look at my post above this quote and see why. ....Seriously, I mean this in the most non snarkiest way possible, but honestly... Are you even reading what I'm replying to you? First of all, what do you see here? @59:08 - 59:22 of the video Looks like The Death Egg's blowing up into smithereens, correct? Or do I need my eyes checked? Second of all, read here and tell me what this says from literally the beginning of the Japanese Manual of Sonic 3 that I already pointed out before plenty of times before and gave you a source of: After Sonic 2's Adventure... Dr. Eggman's fortress, the Death Egg, which was thoroughly destroyed by Sonic in the previous adventure, was just starting to crash towards the earth. On the Death Egg's dropping orbit, there was a single huge, floating mass of clouds closer to the ground. And there was an enormous shadow quietly hiding within those clouds... Towering mountains, spread out woods... That shadow was an island. It was a massive "floating island" that drifted through the sky. The Death Egg became a fireball and crashed hard into that "floating island." The mountains tumbled, the woods were knocked down. That tremendous impact greatly slanted the "floating island" and gradually lowered its altitude. The floating island finally collided with the sea surface. The floating island caused large waves that one could call a tsunami to surge, but did not sink to the bottom of the ocean. Bearing the Death Egg, the floating island stayed slightly above the sea as if nothing had happened. Sonic and Tails's Journey Several days later... On an island far from the place where the Death Egg and the floating island collided. Tails, a two-tailed fox, suddenly started catching a strong Chaos Emerald signal on the jewel radar he invented."It might have something to do with the giant tsunami that happened recently..." Tails pondered as he headed to the beach where Sonic was. When Knuckle regained consciousness, his body was thrown out of the altar. As he slowly rose his body and looked around the vicinity, a partially destroyed emerald altar came into Knuckle's view. Knuckle hurriedly leaped into the altar. However, the Chaos Emeralds that should have been in there had vanished, without leaving a single fragment behind. Knuckle went out of the altar dumbfounded. Then, when he turned his feeble glance into the distance... He noticed something strange appearing near the lake. When he saw that large, round object shaped like an egg, Knuckle felt a shiver along his spine. "That large egg is the legendary dragon's..." There's no mistaking that this egg must be the one that appears in the legend described in the Chaos Emerald's altar, the egg that will bring disaster to this island. Knuckle patrolled the altar of seven Chaos Emeralds that exist on the island for the following few days, but all the Chaos Emeralds have disappeared without a trace. And then, while he was examining every nook and cranny of the island, still not giving up, Knuckle encountered an unfamiliar man in the forest. it was not mere minutes that Eggman set this all up, but several days upon days that this was set up. And they clearly said the Death Egg was thoroughly destroyed... Now, whether you want to believe something else is entirely on you, but this is what the Japanese manual is saying. Evidently that's how its supposed to start out. Where are you getting that it's supposed to just fly on its own or any other way than what was shown? So... you just ignoring evidence? Well that's not my problem. I'm just stating what the manual says. All you're doing is just fighting what was written. I don't see how you don't see how 1: The Emeralds suddenly are missing when Eggman appears after just saying he wants them. 2: The dismantled and once thoroughly destroyed Death Egg stuck on the ground making a crack on the Island's earth suddenly appearing near the lake side by Knuckles's own words 3: All taking several days by a huge armada of robots, magical gem stones, and the smartest in-universe fictional scientist to get this all running Somehow doesn't tell you that Eggman has the emeralds and got his Death Egg running, especialy when it's shown that was his motive for getting the emeralds and what was shown in game... but hey I'll gladly just agree to disagree on this whole notion.
  4. Making things fly is not the only function of the Chaos Emeralds. Besides, you're mixing up the Master Emerald with the Chaos Emeralds. Eggman wanted and got the Chaos Emeralds for the Death Egg initially. Not the Master Emerald. Your angel Island analogy does not apply. And you're missing the fact that the Death Egg was destroyed and the chaos emeralds was what he needed and you see it flying later, told within the manual and seen in game. And I just stated that Sonic destroyed part of the death Egg from under when you beat the Launch Base Zone boss. You're mixing scenarios here. It was already up and running. Sonic was the one that went and destroyed the thing to begin with before re crash landing onto Angel Island. I already did prove to you @Diogenes. You're making me run in circles when I've already pointed and highlighted where it says Eggman grabbed the emeralds already. You didn't even address my comment when I said that Knuckles saw the Death Egg appearing near the lake after the Emeralds were missing. Like how could you not see right there that Eggman has them at that point? It's clearly stating he has it at that moment. It's not like the Chaos Emeralds just got up and decided to leave, and it was only mere coincidence that Eggman shows up right then and there with the Death Egg and Knuckles.
  5. I'm having trouble what we're not seeing here @Diogenes Read here what this says stated by Eggman in the Jap ver of the manual: "If their energy could be utilized", Dr. Eggman thought, "the Death Egg may be able to fly into orbit again." What else could that possibly mean? The Death Egg's main functions are by flying and going into orbit.... and clearly Eggman is gambling if this could even work, because he said it may be able to fly again... this is after the manual just telling you that the Death Egg was thoroughly destroyed. about Sonic 2's Death Egg, difference here is that there was only one set of emeralds to beat Eggman to the punch with and wasn't destroyed vs Sonic 3 where its saying there are other emeralds and that Eggman has them already and that he was working with a destroyed craft. So really, theres two possibilities. One: Sonic 2's Sonic fought Eggman on an uncompleted Death Egg base as Sonic gathered all the emeralds before him as this was Eggman's desperate last line of defense. Two: Sonic getting all the emeralds in Sonic 2 is actually non canon and Eggman actually did get the emeralds before Sonic for his Death Egg Base to be completed. (Edit: which could still mean Sonic got them all back from Eggman by the end, but I personally think that's a whole lot of reaching haha. Scenario one seems more probable) And I don't know how you could tell the state of how it launches in Sonic 3. That seems like a reach to me. All we can honestly tell from the game is that it launched, and then that Sonic destroyed part of it from under. Keep in mind, the jap manual has already told the player that Eggman has the emeralds for the Death Egg to go into orbit again. And look here and read the last paragraph under Knuckles's bio. It literally says the Death Egg lost its ability to fly after crash landing and needs the chaos emeralds for it to fly again.
  6. You're splitting hairs on the main point here though. The point is that Eggman couldn't get it to run again without the emeralds. Also, the beginning of the jap ver. literally states that the Death Egg from Sonic 2 was destroyed, debris was falling from it crashing onto earth, and that it became a fireball crashing onto Angel Island.... but that's besides the point. Also, Knuckles says he saw the Death Egg appearing near the lake. Clearly its running and not stuck and dismantled on the island. Look, just take into account what the US versions of the story says. They say Eggman didn't have the emeralds yet. Well, if that were the case, then how did he get the Death Egg fully completed and running by Launch Base Zone? He should have had the emeralds there if that were the case but the US ver says he doesn't... which is why Eggman having the emeralds in the beginning like the jap version says makes a lot more sense, because the US version literally says he needs the emeralds to make the Death Egg start up and never got them yet he has the Death Egg running in the game anyway.
  7. As I stated above in my edited comment, take note that Eggman's Death Egg was completely destroyed and he himself says he needed the Chaos Emeralds to fix it and get it back up and running again. Later on Knuckles sees the Death Egg working. Also, the point of Sonic 2 was to prevent Eggman from getting the emeralds in order for him to not complete the Death Egg. So I don't think Eggman had the whole thing down completed yet. But with all that said, you see in Sonic 3 that in Launch Base Zone, the Death Egg is flying and fully restored, so that tells you that Eggman already has the Angel Island emeralds.
  8. Yea, here's from that same source on that same page on Retro: Dr. Eggman's Conspiracy Dr. Eggman, who escaped from the fallen Death Egg, was aware that the Chaos Emeralds were on the floating island. He could catch a signal of a huge Chaos Emerald from a crack in the earth opened by the Death Egg. Using that energy, it is possible to let the Death Egg fly out into space again. Dr. Eggman started building a base on the floating island at a quick pace in order to obtain the Chaos Emeralds. Then, he remodeled the animals into robots, and changed the floating island's nature into a more severe one with an environmental change machine. "Daaaahahaha!! Sonic, you're too late to come to this island. This time, by using the Chaos Emeralds, the world will be mine!" The actors and the stage are all set. Sonic's new adventure will now begin here. You have to read the whole thing to understand the full context. Dr. Eggman's Death Egg from Sonic 2 crash landed on Angel Island. Eggman states he couldn't get it to run again after what Sonic just did to it. Then Eggman gets energy readings of the Chaos and Master emeralds after the big crack he did to the Island after crash landing his Death Egg onto it. Eggman then starts his plans to grab the emerald by making a base on top of Angel Island, which is what the Launch Base Zone is. Knuckles then notices the emeralds shake violently before a big explosion of sorts happens. At this point the emeralds are gone and Knuckles got kicked out the emerald altar and was knocked unconscious. When he wakes up, he notices an EGG in the sky, aka the Death Egg. Following that, he notices Eggman right next to him, which is when Eggman lies to him about Sonic being evil, targeting the emeralds and all that stuff. So there you go. Eggman has them because now his Death Egg is running, which he specifically said he wasn't able to without the emeralds.
  9. I was actually just about to say the key difference between the US and Jap versions. In the US ver., Eggman doesn't steal them yet. He plans on doing so, but he has to convince Knuckles that Sonic has them first. In the Jap ver., however, Eggman already has them, and still convinces Knuckles that Sonic is the one that has them. You know he has to have the Chaos Emeralds on him prior to everything starting because the in-game cutscenes shows him with his Death Egg up and running. He can't do that if he didn't have the emeralds on him because it was just destroyed from Sonic 2, and the whole point of him being on Angel Island is to grab the emeralds so he can get his Death Egg back up and running again.
  10. @PengiYea, there's more to that when you read more below. Continuing where you left off: Knuckle hurriedly leaped into the altar. However, the Chaos Emeralds that should have been in there had vanished, without leaving a single fragment behind. Knuckle went out of the altar dumbfounded. Then, when he turned his feeble glance into the distance... He noticed something strange appearing near the lake. When he saw that large, round object shaped like an egg, Knuckle felt a shiver along his spine. "That large egg is the legendary dragon's..." There's no mistaking that this egg must be the one that appears in the legend described in the Chaos Emerald's altar, the egg that will bring disaster to this island. Knuckle patrolled the altar of seven Chaos Emeralds that exist on the island for the following few days, but all the Chaos Emeralds have disappeared without a trace. And then, while he was examining every nook and cranny of the island, still not giving up, Knuckle encountered an unfamiliar man in the forest. As soon as that man, who called himself Dr. Eggman, learned that Knuckle is the Chaos Emeralds' guardian, he informed him this. "I am a scientist who came to investigate that egg. Hmmm, if you are the Chaos Emeralds' guardian then I have to tell you this. The truth is, you see, I'm followed by an evil hedgehog named Sonic who is disturbing my research, and he seems to be targeting the Chaos Emeralds on this island."
  11. I got it from Sonic Retro's coverage. The translator herself, Windii, is also very credible. But in any case, both the US and Jap versions of the manual state that Eggman steals the emeralds as he tricks Knuckles into thinking Sonic took them, which is the plot of the game, so I'm not sure where you got that from.
  12. After reading the manuals, I figured that for the Sonic 1 and 2 Chaos Emeralds jumping from hexagonal to octagonal and all sorts of gonals were generally "soft redesigns" so to speak, still intended to be the same emeralds because Sonic 2's manual is referring to Sonic 1's emeralds and how South Island wasn't the real home place for them and that there was a 7th one, vs Sonic 3&K's Angel Island's Chaos Emeralds where they're seemingly going out of their way explaining to you that they're different emeralds this time around. I consider the redesigns of the emeralds of Sonic 1/2 like Classic and Modern Sonic's aesthetics, where they're the same character but changed up a bit just because. I do agree the story is kinda funky tho haha. In Sonic 2, they make it seem like West Side Island is basically was part of Angel Island with its back story of the emeralds and the ancient legend involved, like how that place also had greedy people trying to misuse the emeralds power, but ended up having the gods lock them away somewhere. You'd think they'd be the same ones until you see Super Sonic at the beginning of Sonic 3. It's all very confusing haha. I just really wanted to see what other people thought of since I just recently started reading the Japanese Manuals of the classics.... and I'm legit surprised they kinda kept the Sonic Adventure Knuckles / Chaos Emerald esque back story since Sonic 2.
  13. I got a question about Sonic Mania / 3&K and how they went about the emeralds. TLDR: Which of the two games was right in depicting the emeralds? Did Mania go astray from what was originally intended by making two emerald types, the Chaos and Super Emeralds, into one? Did Sega screw up themselves with Sonic 2's and Sonic 3's story of the emeralds, or did everyone screw up? Long Version: So, from what I used to understand just by going off the in-game cutscenes alone in Sonic 3&K, I had thought that Sonic, just coming from Sonic 2, mind you, had all the emeralds and brought them to Angel Island, lost them due to Knuckles, then later on made those same emeralds into Super Emeralds by like super charging them on the altar or whatever. And then later on with Mania, we had that artwork of Eggman juggling the emeralds, pretty much explaining why the Chaos Emeralds looked different from Sonic 1 - recent Sonic games and the Super Emeralds"; We only saw their top view in Sonic 1 but they were always the same shape as shown in the later games. And as you can see when playing Mania, they still have the Super Emeralds intact, but grayed out (The weird thing though is that they're all already there even though it's possible the player might not have gotten all of the regular emeralds at that point of getting there, implying they're already their own type of emeralds as well despite what the Eggman artwork shown). Other than that, I thought nothing more of it. Now, from reading the Sonic 3 Japanese translated manual which is apparently the intended lore, Eggman had actually stolen Angel Island's Chaos Emeralds aka the "Super Emeralds" prior to Sonic reaching Angel Island with Super Sonic. So now I'm inclined to believe that there were actually two separate types of emeralds all together, since Sonic had to have gotten his from Sonic 2's West Side Island, aka the true home place for those emeralds, according to Sonic 2's manual and how only days went by the end of Sonic 2 leading up to Sonic 3 according to that game's manual. Plus, Angel Island already had an altar in place of where the emeralds would be near the Master Emerald, and Sonic's never been to Angel Island until that very game, so that'd make sense right there how there'd need to be two separate emerald types. It just confuses me as to why the in-game cutscenes would they have Sonic 2's emerald seemingly transform into Angel Island's if they're supposed to be different. Unless that was a limitation of the Genesis where like they couldn't show Eggman losing the Angel Island emeralds by the end of Sonic 3 before Sonic & Knuckles or something, it leaves me wondering if they forgot themselves that they wrote there was supposed to be two emerald types that they just made into one and fazed out Sonic 2's emeralds.... So which is it? Idk I'm a lil confused and doing a lil too much Sonic lore exploring at the moment haha.
  14. That infamous "Oh no" Knuckles line everyone knows in Sonic Adventure was actually dialogue pulled from the E3 demo's Knuckles's beta line, and from the same actor who went about Knuckles's voice in a different direction. So basically, what people are hearing when they slap around Knuckles in the boss fight is some random out of context line from a previous build being re purposed for that fight, which is why it sounds so strange. The original context of the line starts at 1:55 WHY they did this instead of just telling that same voice actor to just say "Oh no" or literally anything else in his finalized take of Knuckles's voice could be anyone's guess. I'd say they probably forgot until eventually realizing they had to add in some type of audio indication to help the player know you hit him, so they scrambled around and ended up with what we got today.
  15. For the classics, I like to think the reason Sonic 1 only had 6 Chaos Emeralds was simply because Eggman was a total scrub on Echidna lore at the time and didn't even know there was a 7th one for there to be a problem for Sonic. But then by Sonic 3, Eggman had shown he hit the books, got his Echidna scholars degree and found out there was actually 14 to find and even a master one at that. Speaking of Sonic 3, I like to think that Knuckles in the beginning of the game actually had the mini Master Emerald on him to stop Super Sonic, since he shows he can resize the thing to pocket size and was explained to be able to neutralize the Chaos Emeralds with the Master Emerald in the later games. Also, he knew to bring it there at that point in time since Eggman told lies about why Sonic actually had all the emeralds on him in order for Eggman to grab them for himself. For SA2, I always liked to think the Space Colony Ark was pretty much an unfinished man made project of recreating Angel Island in it's entirety, with the people on board trying to get every bit of detail down to it's atoms correct all for the sole purpose of recreating Chaos which was what the Biolizard was supposed to be the "S.H.A.D.O.W." or the follow up to, but for like evil, $$$, power and whatnot. It's also interesting that they both have peculiar parallels between the two regarding their pasts, too, in the sense that according to the history of Angel Island from Sonic 3 to Sonic Adventure, it was a mystery as to why the Echidnas all of a sudden vanished and became abandoned. Kinda like how the Space Colony Ark was. For unknown reasons at the time, the people on board mysteriously "vanished" and their history and everything about the ark was lost due to time and a cover up.
  16. Here's some quick Geets. I had actually forgot I drew this about a year ago, but the twist here is that I secretly revamped it with my coloring sensibilities of today:
  17. Coming from a person who's played and liked a lot of games in their day, when a Sonic game gets it's shit together, I don't think there's any other platformer touching it. It just has this draw in it's style that just pulls me in. It honest to god helped shaped my artistic and musical tastes growing up. That's a very powerful influence that not many other games can say it did the same for me. I also blame Sonic CD's animated intro. That one scene swept me by the foot so hard that it keeps me hoping we'll get something like that in a video game one day. I always felt like that was the blueprints to the ultimate platformer =P.
  18. Well, with this game trying to sell to the audience making it seem Eggman means big business this time in Forces, I don't think that's what they were trying to convey. It's even worse when the context explaining how Tails escaped is conveniently missing, because the scene after Sonic is down literally fades to black with text giving exposition to how the war went down afterwards, not showing us what exactly happened between Tails being confronted by Eggman and the rest for any of this to snowball in the first place. Regarding "plot reasons", say that in Sonic Forces, let's pretend that the only way for the plot to move on is for Tails to not get captured in the beginning. I feel that if Tails just simply said something along the lines in the following scene while fixing Omega "It's been far too long since I've heard a word from Sonic. He might just be.... but I can't give up!" Sonic wouldn't!" or some shit like that, then that'd alleviate so much. Even though Tails is capable of beating Chaos 0, he doesn't have to win against him or anything like that, especially since the war logically should take some toll on him if it was really going on for that long, but for him to just give up on everything without trying and for 6 months, screaming Sonic's name, especially when you realize all of this would've been fixed in a day if Tails had just used the communicator to track Eggman right when he realized Sonic was captured and he had the opportunity to escape with this information.... ugh it just doesn't sit well with me.
  19. @DabigRG Idk, I feel like since Eggman was already making this huge push for world domination like he hasn't ever done before, with his entire army beside him, that he wouldn't leave any gaps right before the war even begins... He knows what Tails is capable of and is just as much a threat as Sonic is, so why let him go, especially when you're just going to complain about concerns about letting survivors go later on? He specifically made a jail cell for everyone within the Death Egg and he's not going to start off with the two biggest threats he knows? And yea, it's a shame the rest of the gang didn't know, and that falls on Tails. If Tails would've simply told his friends he was captured, then at least one of them should've had the sense to realize he has to be still alive. I don't understand why Tails just stopped using his communicator for 6 months.
  20. True, true. Infinite does likes to play with his enemies and let them "tell the tale", but Eggman is a different story in this game. He literally yells at Infinite for letting Sonic go specifically because he didn't want any potential threats to ruin his plans. So him letting Tails go away when he was inches away from him with his whole entire army beside him is nonsense and the story shouldn't have gone the way it did in the first place. Another point I don't get is, why would Tails think Sonic is dead for any of this psychological warfare to snow baIl if Eggman captured him? There's no way Eggman would have any use for Sonic's dead body for one thing. The fact That he captured him should give reason for Tails to have on going purpose to fight on to save him, because Eggman capturing Sonic implies he's still alive. But for some reason he thinks he's immediately dead and says nothing about what happened to his friends.... That first scene just doesn't add up to me. It's either Tails should've gotten captured with Sonic and the story branches off to something else entirely, or Tails holds on to his words to "save Sonic" since there's always a possibility that he's still alive, being captured and all.
  21. I'm a little late to the party, but yea, I enjoyed and agreed with a lot of points in the video. I still feel however that even with Tails being hinted at having depression, that it completely misses the point of the character progression he was going through and doesn't justify some of his actions. The point of Tails's progression was that he should handle his own problems and be his own person. With Sonic (and not even his Sonic at that) just coming back into the picture and him zapping back into shape just gives a huge slap in the face of what he learned from following Sonic growing up and what he realized on his own. The SA2 scene with Tails reacting to Sonic's apparent death that you showed is how I feel Forces Tails should react within a world without Sonic. The point being, he should always fight on no matter what, and always fight for his friends. For him to just give up on his friends is what really sits me the wrong way. The war having an effect on him is fine, but I don't think they way it went about it fits him. Also, about the scene with Tails cowering from the robots in front of the civilians, although I do agree that it makes sense for Tails to sit back as he can't possibly stand up to all of Eggman's forces like Infinite, Metal Sonic and etc, I don't think that's the point why people really detested that scene. At least that's not my point when I first saw that scene anyway. It's the fact that Tails just can't find any solution of his own without Sonic's say is what drives me crazy. And it's worse when you realize that seems to be his whole shtick within the entire game. It's also the fact that the situation was already at it's worst with Sonic down, and realistically, Eggman should've captured Tails right then and there too, so Tails should've dropped his communicator and fought for what he could since there should've been no way to escape with everyone there literally next to him and him screaming "Sonic!", giving away his position. Eggman not even bothering to capture Tails was plot induced stupidity in of itself since he wanted and even yelled at Infinite for not capturing Sonic later on in the game when Tails was literally in his sights alone within the first scene of the game anyway... so Tails somehow running away on his own and being depressed for 6 months just for it to be turned around in 10 seconds shouldn't have been an option for the story in the first place.
  22. Yea I know you could die from the pistons, but you have to do that purposefully, which is the point. It's a testing ground like I said. In the video above, it's clearly shown in Sonic 2 that it gives you rings prior to even reaching up to the pistons at the beginning of the level. That's completely different from the trap floors in Scrap Brain. You die for even experimenting what they could lead to, and the trap floors that lead to bottomless pits are one hit kills. Pistons are not one hit kills. Pistons actually teach you to jump on them, by avoiding the steam and it being an obstacle to jump over in general, and there're rings directly on top of the pistons to show where they lead to, leading to the platform above with a ring box. That's way more careful game design that doesn't severally punish the player, but rather teaches them how things functions in their zone unlike Scrap Brain zone that just throws in new gimmicks in and you die for being curious even. I disagree on your second point. Of course there are bottomless pits in Sonic 1 prior to Scrap Brain, but how often are they in literally the start of the stage, with rings literally being on top of them to guide you? Seriously. This is the start of the zone! A new player wouldn't have know where they are in a stage. They could've thought they were at the very top and have a safety net to fall from. Hell, not to far off from those trap floors is a downward pathway where you continue one from, but there's a bottomless pit prior to that anyway.... And usually you know a bottomless pit is dangerous because a platform tends to shake and crumble into pieces to warn you you're not supposed to fall here, that's also in conjunction with the camera not panning down any further. Not Scrap brain zone though. You just die because those platforms act like its a doorway to another passage. Heck if anything, Green Hill Zone teaches you to check sketchy areas and seemingly bottomles pits at the beginning of the stage. Remember this spot in Act 2?
  23. Quick: How do you put up gifs on this site again? My bad, It's been a while for me on here :P

    1. Crow the BOOLET

      Crow the BOOLET

      Same way you'd do any image


      I just usually post the image link and let the magic happen

  24. (Edit: How do you put gifs on here? Sorry about that, it's been a while since I've thrown gifs on here) True, true. Don't get me wrong, I do agree with you with how you're supposed to experiment uncharted areas with caution first before going buck wild with Sonic's full speed. That's a rule that's not just for Sonic games, but just for gaming in general if anyone seeks self improvement (Instead of one blaming the entire game all of their mistakes unfairly because they choose not to be careful and didn't practice). I'm not one of those guys saying "Sonic must always be going fast" haha . Trust me, I'm a speed runner and dabble with the classics myself (And one of the apparent crazy ones that actually likes Labyrinth Zone). But with that said, I still don't agree with the player being expected to notice color guidelines in a game like Sonic, I think I should've worded it like this: The difference between Scrap Brain and Metropolis is that with Metropolis, while still sharing some of the unfair design philosophies like bad enemy placement and enemy choice in general, it's not nearly as bad as Scrap Brain where they literally throw everything at you at every given moment. You barely get any breathing space going in, and you can die oh so easily with one mistake a lot of the time. Let's look at the difference here: https://imgur.com/5eR82Tr With Sonic 2, you can see that within the very first instance of Act 1 Metropolis, they put you in a testing ground to experiment with the pistons. This is the devs teaching the new unsuspecting player the gimmicks for the new zone they've just reached. This is one of the last levels of the game as we all should know at this point, so that should tell anyone that it's always good to teach the player of it's new mechanics no matter what stage they're in in any game. Now lets jump into Sonic 1: https://imgur.com/q9hZfKI Look at the huge difference here. In complete contrast to Metropolis's first few seconds demonstrating a testing grounds where you can't possibly die, instantaneously does Scrap Brain throw you into the "real world". The trap floor immediately opens within 2 seconds of the stage even starting. Not only that, they place rings smack dab on top of the trap floor, rings being taught as a safety guide in prior zones, BUT!, and as we all should know, these are bottomless pits these rings are leading to! For all the new player could know, this trap floor could've been the way to go. It's literally 2 seconds in the zone with rings on top of a potential passage way and the theoretical new player knows nothing of this zone yet, so how could they possibly know it's dangerous? Even for just curiosity's sake, what if this led to a secret place like the game has shown the possibility of for the player one point or another prior to Scrap Brain like all other secret passage ways (like say kinda like the secret platform at the start of Spring Yard Zone Act 1); Nope. You just die for even being curious what it could lead to. Of course we would know it's a trap floor, and you can tell the player in the video here was seasoned enough to react to the trap floor. That's easy to say with near 30+ years of experience behind our belts since this first came out, but the point is that it still doesn't change the fact that this part of the level is jank level design at it's finest and condones trepidation because it didn't teach you anything yet get punished severally for it. We just know all of the jank that's coming our way, but just think about how that could've gone wrong for a new player. I wouldn't even blame them if they fell even with them demonstrating the skill of making it all this way, because again, they weren't taught about those trap floors in prior zones! That's also why I don't agree with "noticing the red on the trap floor" point. You're not held to look out for red colors or any color in Sonic 1 or any Sonic game for that matter. You're not taught this early on. That's not a rule in any zone prior to Scrap Brain zone, and it's not even a rule within Scrap Brain itself. Those trap floor are the only things that happen to be red in the zone (other than fire and the bomb badniks, but we use symbolism to know they're dangerous hazards, not their colors). It just so happened to be red stripped as a color choice for color theory and nothing more. It doesn't even matter if the color they chose was red or any other color anyway because the trap floors were already going off in cycles whether you get to see the color or not. Just look at the gif I showed you above of Scrap Brain. Did it matter what color you saw 2 seconds going into the stage? That trap floor was ALREADY activated for you to die to even notice what color it was before the fact. I don't want to spam up this thread though, so I'll spare with the thoughts on the whole ordeal for now, but this is pretty much why I'm curious why Sonic 1 gets a pass while Sonic 2 doesn't despite knowing about going through the levels with caution on your first run. Mind you, the trap floor example I brought up is just the first instance of Scrap Brain Zone. It get's so. much. worse than this haha. They throw you obstacle after obstacle after badnik after badnik literally right on top of each other with no rhyme or reason whatsoever. There're a lot of unnecessary waiting, whether it be for invisible platforms on bad cycles, running on reverse conveyor belts with saw blades going off in front of you, to top pathways leading straight to bottomless pits if you make one mistake and also don't land on the flipping conveyor platforms correctly, to the Labyrinth-esque zone on Act 3 that have bubble rest spots taking unusually long, with more bad enemy and object placements... but for some reason, Sonic 2 is the game where trepidation is enforced despite never getting crazy like that in any of it's levels.... That's why I'm curious.
  25. But are people typically going to have that in the back of their minds to look out for things like color coordinated signals to guide them? You're not really expected to uphold to that standard in any Sonic game, let alone the first one, especially since you're supposed to be going at a reasonably fast pace to be noticing things like that unless you were already going slow enough to be wary of those traps like that where then it wouldn't have mattered what color things were. Even then, with Scrap Brain's very first instance of its trap floors, they place rings right on top of them, as if to say it's safe to be on them when it's most certainly not the case haha.
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