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VisionaryofSUPER last won the day on June 28 2014

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About VisionaryofSUPER

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  • Birthday 08/14/1992

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    Fanfiction, philosophy, Sonic, video games, traditional art, animation.
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  1. Aside from the edits to violence, sexuality. I don't see what's so terrible about the dialogue about Sonic X's Dub. It seems largely straightforward as a script goes.

    I'd say if it wasn't for the terrible music, it'd otherwise be an ok dub.

    Edit: When I say straightforward, I mean not something like the pun-laden One Piece that bordered on absurdity in every bit of dialogue.

    1. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      There were parts where they completely changed what the characters said, like in episode 3 where Eggman attacked the cops because they wouldn't submit to his demands, but in the dub where the cops outright say "We give up" and Eggman's all "I can't stand quitters! Guess I'll teach you a lesson!"

      Like, Eggman's the type who would absolutely accept someone's unconditional surrender, so that's a weird change.

    2. VisionaryofSUPER


      So what? The results are the same. Eggman attacks them.

      It's pretty stupid yeah, but it really doesn't change engagement in the show other than laughing at the absurdity.

    3. Diogenes



      So what? The results are the same. Eggman attacks them.

      i mean if changing things to mean exactly the opposite is fine what kind of change isn't

    4. VisionaryofSUPER


      As long as it can present a straightforward narrative then yeah, it's fine. As it's own self contained property Sonic X just sort of existed on its own merits.

      4kids are pretty much the extreme when it comes to stuff like this. Though I've heard way worse from them when it came to just interfering with absolutely everything the plot had to offer.

      Give stuff like the absurd Yugi-Oh dub credit for essentially being able to carve out it's own identity through its myriad of changes and find love from the anime community in spite of being different.

    5. Sean


      It wasn't a great dub by any stretch of the imagination but it fared better than most of 4Kids' other shows around that period.

    6. altum_dolorem



      So what? The results are the same. Eggman attacks them.

      It's pretty stupid yeah, but it really doesn't change engagement in the show other than laughing at the absurdity.

      I just wanted to say that @Dr. Mechano is a big fan of Eggman and while that dialogue example didn't change engagement as you say, it does change Dr. Eggman's characterization immensely, which is important to some of us.

    7. Plumbers_Helper


      If you only watch the dub it certainly doesn't seem that bad, maybe a few noticeable edits of inappropriate content here and there and a lot of puns added, but once you start comparing it to the Japanese version it becomes clearer why fans can be harsh on it.

      4Kids frequently changed the tone, removed scenes that explained character motivations and plot details, and that's not even getting into the odd choices like removing English text from signs, leading to awkward scenes of the camera focusing on signs with nothing written on them. There were times where they managed to capture a similar feel to the original, but I feel it was usually for scenes that needed it the least.

      For example let's take Episode 68, where in the Japanese version Molly tragically dies after forming a strong relationship with Shadow, and compare it to the English version where she survives to fight another day. I feel the English version has more problems then just the music changes.

      I watched the English dub first, I like it and think it's great for kids, especially if it's their introduction to Sonic. But much like the original dubs of Dragon Ball or Sailor Moon, they worked for the intended audience at the time, but there is little reason to go back to them now that subtitled versions and more accurate dubs are available. Sonic X doesn't have a more accurate dub unfortunately, but maybe someday. It took Sailor Moon 22 years to get a more accurate dub after all.

    8. Polkadi~☆


      The context of things are changed.

      Tails's and Cosmo's relationship is recontextualised as just being friends, for instance. And there’s Mechano's mention of Eggman, which is not the only time Eggman has his lines recontextualised. They wanted to remove the implication of anything that might have been dodgy, no matter how small.

      And there were the dumb edits, including those that smudged all English (or any language) writing for, err... long story. There was one good "don't try this at home" joke that was completely removed instead of being translated into English because they erased all writing from a sign.

      Then again, 4kids weren’t a dubbing company, they were a company making shows for the TV Y-7 audience out of existing anime. Former staff have said that in retrospect of the company. Sonic X just happens to be the most faithful of the bunch aside from Pokemon, even if it’s still lacking in a lot of areas.

    9. VisionaryofSUPER


      @Plumbers_Helper I have heard that same stuff for years on end, and know all of those details. The way I see it, the death scenes are the ones brought up most, and I have no argument for those because their removal hurts the impact of the plot overall as well as getting across emotional impact that even the English dub was trying to convey. That's an outright failure there in my book. The rest can go up or down.

      Though the removal of letters was actually a TMS thing.


      @DanJ86 It does change his characterization, but at the end of the day the show finds a way to progress its plotline. It isn't accurate to the popular interpretation of the Dr. , but at the same time delivers another reason how something could have occurred. For its lack in accuracy, it can be an amusing bit of change.

      Hell, I kinda find it funny as a way to change why he opens fire.

    10. VisionaryofSUPER


      @Polkadi~☆ I'd say aside from One Piece, 4kids and their butchery of their magical girl shows was worse. Because those shows could have dialogue fighting against the very animation itself, making for just the most disgusting and disjointed experience that's just so hard to watch.

      Hell, I'd even say Yugi-Oh was worse on principal. It's just that it happens to be way more amusing than Sonic X in practice.

    11. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      I will say there are some one-liners from the dub that I don't mind, despite having an unfavorable view of it overall.

      Like, there's a part where the Metarax fire a missile at the Egg Crimson and Eggman pretends to be hit by it, when in actuality he just opens the doors of his ship to let the missile harmlessly pass through.

      His description of this in the dub? "As usual I used my brains and showed that missile the door!"

      which i mean, honestly, is peak eggman so i can't complain about it

      If the 4Kids script had mainly just added dumb puns but kept the original characterization more-or-less intact I'd be pretty cool with it.

    12. Plumbers_Helper


      @Polkadi~☆, that's not true about Tails and Cosmo. There were changes of course, but Cosmo and Tails not being in love is not one of them. Tails outright says "I love you" to Cosmo in Episode 65, the official TMS Youtube channel even has a video clip titled "Sonic saves the planet, Tails falls in love with Cosmo".

      @VisionaryofSUPER, I didn't know TMS was the one responsible for the text-less signs, I guess they intended for the English distributors to re-add them. I will add this, compared to 4Kids' other dubs, Sonic X was probably one of the better ones. It doesn't mean it was a good dub on it's own, but compared to the others from 4Kids it was fine. No major name changes or episodes airing out of order that I know of.

    13. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      @Plumbers_Helper Yeah, the only name changes were giving Eggman's anime-exclusive robots actual names instead of just "E-[Number]" like in the original, which I suppose is tolerable.

      "Missile Wrist" is a more memorable name than "E-23," and it's not like Sega themselves hadn't always renamed the Badniks in localization anyway.

      Again, despite me being charitable to these aspects of the dub, I do still think the dub as a whole is pretty bad.

    14. VisionaryofSUPER


      @Dr. Mechano To be fair, even if the characterizations were all proper, I dunno if I'd super enjoy the 4kids dub if the music was still so damn awful. It's the one thing that just sinks it all like a ship to me.

      I can live with the script, I can live with the voice acting. But they seriously needed to have better music man. Kirby, and Yugi-Oh had some pretty good tracks, but Sonic X needed way more to fix theirs.

      If they weren't going to keep the original, do a way better job with what you got I say.

    15. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Do we know why they changed it? Like, I could kind of see changing the opening to a song in English, but changing all the background music too?

      Was it licensing issues or did 4Kids just arbitrarily decide to do it themselves?

    16. VisionaryofSUPER


      @Dr. Mechano 4kids wanted to sell their dub to other countries, but they had to do some specific changes to make that go from "illegal", to "grey".

      One of the things that needed to happen was in the changing of the music, so they wouldn't have to pay for the license of the music at all when selling the dub. They already had shortened the episode by taking out multiple parts of the episode, so they could sell those masters to other dubbing companies without needing to pay Japan for them. After all, they got the rights to these masters from Japan.

    17. Sean


      Almost every English dub back then that didn't air on Toonami or wasn't DTV did this. 4Kids, Nelvana, Saban, Viz. It's due to a combination of edited video causing desyncs with the original soundtrack and creative differences in how children's television should handle audio.

    18. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Gotcha, that explains it.

      Still a shame though.

    19. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Weirdly, 4Kids kept some of Pokemon's BGM but changed others. It seemed kinda random.

      Like, their dub of the Pokemon anime still had arrangements of songs from the games like the original did, but to my understanding some of the BGM pieces were dub-originals.

    20. VisionaryofSUPER


      @Sean   4kids took it a step further with their licensing deals. And even with the descyncs, some dubs were able to retain the original music tracks, like, you would have dubs from the 60s still using the original music tracks, with all their edits and all.


    21. Sean


      4Kids weren't the only ones doing this, and aside from outliers like One Piece they weren't even usually the worst offenders. It was a common trend in the late 90s and early to mid 2000s. Nowadays it's mostly just Saban doing this with Pretty Cure for some reason.

    22. VisionaryofSUPER


      Oh yeah. I forgot they're still making new Pretty Cures at Saban.

    23. Tornado


      It helps that the original version of Sonic X is shit in its own way, unique from the 4Kids version.

    24. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano


      There were definitely aspects of it I didn't really like either.

      Chris was an awful character. And even Sonic himself seemed way too aloof and bland; He lacked that cool spark I expect of him.

      I really like how the show (and especially the comic) handled Eggman though, and consider X's portrayal one of the best versions of the character. And it was nice to get a Sonic TV series that was (relatively) game-accurate, even going so far as to loosely adapt the Adventure games and Sonic Battle.

      So it was kind of a mixed bag for me.

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