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Mad Convoy

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About Mad Convoy

  • Rank
    G.U.N. Truck
  • Birthday 02/28/1998

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  • Interests
    Sonic (duh), computer, internet, Nintendo, origami, Kirby, animals (especially dogs and cats), TV animation, Vocaloid
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    United States
  • Location
    Wherever you imagine me to be

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  1. Mad Convoy

    Why Sonic Underground Sucks (In my Opinion)

    I think Underground is one of the few things that isn't divisive about Sonic, if only because most everybody can agree that its completely awful. From the uncanny animation to the terrible music, there's something for everybody to dislike in Underground. Its not hard to tell that episodes were quite literally churned out once a week from the studio. What's sad about the whole thing is that Underground is what DiC turned a potential third season of SatAM into. No really, Ben Hurst was about as close as he'd ever get to penning SatAM season 3, and the moment he arrived some DiC employee plopped this thing down and said "You make this instead. We get more money from music royalties in this show." Heartbreak doesn't even begin to describe it, and while I can get why some people think SatAM is bad, I think its reasonable to say that a third season of SatAM would've much more worthwhile to focus on concept-wise than the first season of Underground. While Underground had some good ideas, like elaborating on Sonic's family and showing how the guy feels about not having any parental figures around, even they needed a lot of retooling to reach their full potential. This is the internet's greatest GIF and nobody is going to convince me otherwise.
  2. Goddammit weegee will you stop falling for these "free mansion" scams already you should know by now that its always evil ghosts :P 

    when has it not been evil ghosts weegee

    1. Polkadi~♪


      a free mansion is a free mansion

    2. Mad Convoy

      Mad Convoy

      unless its actually evil ghosts' free mansion

    3. Polkadi~♪


      hey man, what if someone offers YOU a free mansion

    4. Mad Convoy

      Mad Convoy

      call the FCC

  3. Been trying to do a kinda-orcestrated of remix one of my favorite retro game songs, but its so much harder than it seems. Especially since the song itself is from a pretty obscure version of Arkanoid that never saw an official soundtrack release (and with a name like "menu", likely was never intended to be released). On top of that nobody's attempted to make a midi or sheet music of it yet. (The original game had the song in .mdf format but I have no idea what that format even is)

    Best I have to work off of is an mp3 I got off of a Youtube video archiving the song I guess...

  4. Dodonpa dislikes smoke.

  5. To add onto this, even the most meticulously animated works tend to have things like walk loops and mouth flaps that are readily reusable. This is because animating mouth flaps is hard so its usually easier and less expensive to just have a generic set of mouth flaps to draw from for the purpose of copying and/or editing. Likewise, animating walking, particularly when the character is shown from a perspective that lets you see their whole body while their feet touch the ground, is also extremely difficult. Its easier to pull off in 3D, true, but even that is very error prone (look at how the characters in Rapsitte Street Kids movie walk if you want to see what happens when an animator underestimates the difficulty of animating walking believably). And there's plenty more reused animation for other mundane things that are hard to animate. So long as its subtle, its not a problem, and in fact saves time and money that lets animators portray scenes with greater detail and/or complexity. Its also nowhere near a problem in this show from what I can see, so I mean... not saying that the show isn't terrible but I do agree with you that this isn't really a major issue.
  6. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    @UpCDownCLeftCRightC (forgot to quote you, sorry) 1) That makes sense now that you've explained it better. And well, companies from the olden days tend to forget that you can't shove out a game within a year or two anyway. Not an excuse, but it can be jarring for the out of touch executive to realize that games take longer now to make, and unfortunately their subordinates don't get listened to as often as they should in regards to deadlines. (Admittedly I've only got anecdotal evidence for the part about not listening to subordinates, and I don't want to jeopardize anybody's livelihood, but its not exactly something that's hard for anonymous/private people in subordinate positions to verify what I'm saying here. The most they can say is something along the lines of "We're not gonna have this thing up to par until three months after today," but if all the executives hear is something along the lines of "I'm a slacker who loves wasting your money!", then they aren't getting that much needed three months. And well, guess who gets to be the scapegoat when the project inevitably goes wrong. Its the subordinates who saw disaster coming from a mile away but couldn't convince anybody with authority to take measures to prevent it to take their concerns seriously.) 3) Yuji had wanted to quit, if I recall correctly, because he felt like Sega didn't appreciate him enough. They wouldn't credit him with his proper name (which was actually to keep other companies from poaching him, but backfired as he saw it as disrespectful and avoiding crediting him directly) and apparently he wasn't getting paid a whole lot. If he'd gone over to Nintendo, he'd have probably realized that Nintendo was only marginally better in those regards-- people who weren't amongst its founders got credited with real names, yes, but weren't (and still aren't to a large extent) paid very well either and at times it seemed like its appreciation for its employees only lasted for a short period of time. Just look at how Gunpei Yokoi, the guy who invented the Game and Watch and the Game Boy (hence being directly responsible for the hold Nintendo maintains to this day on the handheld console market), invented the control pad, and acted as a producer for many well-liked franchises, got treated while he worked at Nintendo. Dude revolutionizes the console industry almost singlehandedly and establishes Nintendo's handheld dominance, and he's thanked by being forced to design the Virtual Boy despite several objections on his part, which were promptly ignored. Then he's shunted off to smaller projects as punishment for the Virtual Boy that he didn't even want to make and eventually quit out of frustration to go join Namco-Bandai (which was looking into making its own consoles at the time, and hey, it did treat Yokoi with a lot of respect, so Yokoi was planning to continue to provide inventions for it, but these consoles never were released outside of Japan for some reason and his life was tragically cut short by a car accident when he was only in his 50s). Because of the brashness and ego he had at the time, I don't think Yuji Naka would've tolerated any of the stuff Yokoi endured, at least not for as long as Yokoi did. Fortunately SoA stepped in and helped Naka get what he wanted (first priority being better pay) so he'd stay at Sega, but even if SoA had not done this and Naka went to find another employer out of frustration, I strongly doubt Naka would've stayed at Nintendo for long. For better or for worse, the result would probably be that his own company Prope would have gotten established in the 90s instead of in the mid-2000s. Hard to tell how many people would have joined him in leaving for the new company, but it'd probably be significant enough to have an impact on the Sonic franchise. And yeah, I do agree that Sega could be doing better. But well, if you think Nintendo couldn't let this happen... well, unfortunately that too isn't impossible. I'm actually not really a fan of Pokemon these days as I can't tell who Nintendo is attempting to please with the new titles or why certain changes were made, and even Mario has hit slumps (Galaxy 2, anybody?). For that matter, ask a Star Fox fan how the Star Fox franchise is doing right now and the answer is probably gonna be "dead." Not to say that its likely, but it is still well within the realm of possibility. (Oh, and as for my major? Biology and Bioinformatics. I'm double majoring. And you?)
  7. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    Ah, no problem. 1) This is kind of what I'm talking about regarding where people base their cynicism-- this assumption that this or that only can happen for one reason. The reality is, it doesn't have to happen only because a company assumes people will just buy a game anyway, and in fact its more likely to do with finances than anything like that. This is because, simply put, time is money. Every day spent working on a game is a day when all the relevant employees have to get paid their due and when resources that have to be paid for eventually like electricity and such get used. Sega seems to love cutting out the part where people take time that could be spent working to communicate better, and despite that the process is still very expensive anyway. And most modern day video games by major publishers are, at least initially, funded through investors. Investors as a general rule of thumb hate uncertainty. They get antsy about products that keep getting delayed, as this can be a sign that the game has hit development hell and won't be coming out anytime soon. They may or may not make stipulations before Sega can cash in their checks, and that might include signing a contract to not delay a game after a certain date. And well, its also possible for the game to be overambitious in what was initially proposed, which forces the game to be scaled back but that does not on its own negate the pre-existing deals and contracts. Games also can become such a trainwreck that there is no permanent way for anybody to make them noticeably better than they are at this stage. But the money spent on the game is very real and oftentimes larger than a more successful project would be. So are the investors who opted in under the impression that you were going to release the product you pitched to them in some form, and the people who have pre-ordered the game under the impression that it would come out on a certain day. Cancelling the trainwreck is possible but more complicated that you'd think to deal with afterwards-- you don't deliver anything at all, and people are going to want their money back in some form or another. You've got to ensure everybody who pre-ordered the game gets their money back, you have to make sure that all the stores that put money into stocking the game for the shelves get their money back too, if you had any manufacturers making the physical copies of the games at the time you also have to take all of their copies off of their hands and find some way to be rid of them as well as compensate them for their work, and sometimes investors include clauses in contracts that can mean that their checks can't get cashed if a game doesn't sell a certain way or something that otherwise yanks away their invested money should things go wrong. Because of this, although Rise of Lyric sold pathetically, it still would have been even more a financial failure had the game simply been canned since Sega would be obligated to return a lot of money while not even getting a small amount of money back. Same goes for Sonic 06, or really any other trainwreck game that ended up on shelves despite being laughably and blatantly bad. If you don't believe me when I'm using Sonic as an example, try thinking of Haze. Haze was the first IP to be made by its nobody developer, so there is no brand loyalty established ahead of time or anything like that. The developers wanted Haze to be amongst the greatest and most innovative titles of all time, and that's how it was marketed. Excitement buzzed, but it soon became apparent behind the scenes that everything the developers wanted simply wasn't feasible, but not wanting to be accused of false advertising or disappoint any fans, there was strong pressure to keep in all implemented and promised features no matter how poor of a state they were in. The game became a massive bloat on finances and resources as a result, and eventually the costs mounted up so high that the developers had no choice but to rush Haze to at least a playable state and release it. The release was disastrous, the game itself and its marketing became a punchline, and the developers were put out of business very quickly. However, despite how horrible it may seem for the game to be widespread and known for being awful and how it may be easy to assume it sealed the developers' demise, Haze needed to be released as it was, because having a small chance of surviving a massive failure really is better than having no chance at all. In short, games don't only get rushed out because its assumed people will blindly buy from a brand, and in fact that mentality isn't very common. Usually games get rushed out by developers/publishers who made unwise deals with investors, or that know they screwed up badly but need to release the game to recoup some costs if they want even a chance of survival and moving forward. 2) Yeah, I think "disappointed" would be the better way of putting it, really. 3) I agree with your overall point here, but I feel like the game trying to please everybody lets me make an educated guess of how the focus groups were handled and such (namely, in an overcompensatory manner). Obviously until we know for sure a guess is all it is. For me its like Sega and Sonic Team heard "Get more in touch with what people want!", but went about it in the wrong way entirely. As a side note, I don't think its quite fair to say that Headcannon's people aren't experienced with Sega/Sonic Team when its founders have worked with both companies to some extent on remakes and things of that nature for quite a long time before Mania, to the point of being considered regulars in terms of making Sonic games. I'm not exactly the main authority either, but anecdotally I'm not hearing enough negativity to think that the atmosphere surrounding Sonic's prospects is terrible outside of some places on the internet. Which doesn't make either of us alone or knowingly wrong. Crap, now my science major self is trying to come up with a bias-reduced, as accurate as possible poll for these kinds of things...
  8. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    1) Indeed, but that again isn't the same as saying "We didn't care!" Its more along the lines of "We made mistakes in the past, and we don't want to make them in the future." 2) Well, you sort of did in some ways. A flop basically means massive sales failure, on its own or in context, and you're bringing in stuff like non-money context which aren't really relevant to raw sales data. None of what you're saying indicates a flop-- underperformance, maybe, but not in a way where its fair to label the game an outright sales failure which is what saying a game flopped basically did. And you don't need hard numbers because its demonstrably true that even with games like Rise of Lyric that are massively embarrassing, Sammy Corp. won't lie and say that a game that did horrible/mediocre actually did reasonably well. They may come up with marketing BS as to why sales were bad, but they won't lie outright about finances relating to them. Lying about finances is an excellent way to get investors to call deals off and sue, and I don't think Sammy Corp's higher ups have any death wishes regarding the company. If they said it sold strongly, then for better or worse, it almost certainly really did sell strongly. 3) And focus grouping isn't inherently a bad thing in itself-- if anything, its often though not always a sign that the people behind it want the project to do well, since they're willing to put it through several rounds of thorough evaluation by outside people before releasing it to the public. The pitfalls of focus grouping often come when people who are not reasonably informed about how video games work or unable to articulate much valuable insight are brought on, and naturally their suggestions tend to be really, really dumb at best. This usually happens when people are chosen at random (often by a third party that arranges focus group meetings on the behalf of companies-- in theory its supposed to ensure scientific accuracy and eliminate bias, in execution its not taking into account different levels of insight that people can state clearly and its not a good idea to do 100+ trials here like a scientist would to compensate for possible errors) instead of being properly vetted for informative value. Another common pitfall is to overdo and/or overvalue focus groups. Its good to take in criticism, better to take in criticism from people who have a lot of informative value, but you will never please everybody. It isn't going to happen, and trying to placate every person with a complaint instead of looking for running themes within the recorded complaints from a small amount of focus group assessments almost always results in the finished product coming off as sterilized and/or desperate to be loved. In the case of Forces, it seems like both were factors in the game turning out the way it did. And I happen to disagree. I think there are other factors that fans often ignore-- whether it be budget, executive decision making, management, etc.. While Forces itself may not have been a victim of this specific thing, there is a strong precedent for Sega pressuring Sonic Team and other Sonic developers to rush out titles, and things like TSR and to a smaller extent Mania are not exactly helping the company's case that its completely over rushing Sonic games out. Are those bad for staff morale? Oh yes, they certainly are, but it doesn't mean that the people working there don't like what they do or are cynically basing their decisions solely on profit. I mean, I don't think this is the song and dance you think it is. Its disgraceful that morons have beaten people over the head for not being their definition of sufficiently optimistic, or defend every single bad decision without thinking, and its super unfortunate if that's painting how you view anybody trying to defend being optimistic or rebut a cynic's claims (as I do suspect). But it can get to the point where you forget that others don't necessarily perceive things the way you do, and through that become frustrated when they say things that seem to directly conflict with reality-- even though the reality is, there is no one answer that is undeniably right at this point, and really the only outright wrong ones are ones built on deliberate lies and insults instead of fact and balanced thinking. Unfortunately, I'm still not seeing this elusive "they", given that Sega is no stranger itself to downsizing, buy-outs, restructures, and large staff changes and so its possible that not everybody has actually had over 20 decades to figure it out. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist, or that a cumulative perspective of a company overall is invalid, but well, I'm going to be honest here and say that its not really helping me reach an understanding here. As a side note, I didn't expect you to know this before, but my brain kind of doesn't do "a million is a statistic." It just skips right over the part where the information is condensed to be not overwhelming, and as a result what I perceive when I see large groups isn't compressed like most others' perceptions are. Its not something I actually want to change, since I do benefit from all the avenues of empathy, insight, and prioritization it opens up for me, but I'm also not gonna deny that its a source of bias for me that ought to be kept in check too. So y'know, do criticize when stuff like that is clouding my judgement. Maybe I won't like it, but like everybody I'm always in need of it and I do respect people more when they come forward and express their problems with me honestly and to my face. Its much appreciated... well, eventually much appreciated, anyways. So thanks for the polite response and I hope to be hearing your response soon.
  9. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    Again with the insinuation that it was intentional. I was mistaken. No intentional spin, just an honest mistake that I made. And I'm sorry for it, but it was not intentional. And I get it, and the problem was never people being cynical. I'm not saying the series has been perfect either. I don't really know where they outright said that they haven't been putting their best foot forward, or how that automatically equates "doesn't actually have passion and is lazy" anyway. I'm seeing "we really should do things better for people.", yes, but not necessarily "all that stuff before was just phoned in". Well, the definition of flop as its most commonly understood in media industries is that it is a total failure in the sales department. Its not so much "sold less than Mania" and "didn't perform as well as expected but still did decently enough" that defines a flop here-- a flop would be more like "sold around what Rise of Lyric got." And it has no bearing on a game's quality or people's perceptions therein. Great games can and do flop, bad games can and do chart-smashingly incredible. There is seldom true fairness in regards to how a game performs sales-wise, no matter what you or I or even the majority of people want or think. And you have a valid argument to think that Forces was disappointing. But its not really a good thing to conflate that with a term that refers exclusively to sales data, especially when, well, you already have a good argument and obscuring it with exaggerations, intentionally or not, only makes said good stuff harder to find and/or take seriously. For future reference, I was never saying that it was unreasonable to not be optimistic. What I took umbrage with was the reasons people were citing why, which weren't lining up with actual good reasons to think so and came off as exaggerated. This made me question just how much of the cynicism was impulsive rather than well thought out, and I wanted others to think to question it too since most people don't mean to have an opinion that's more impulsive than well founded. Because if people don't recognize think about why they made the decision to exaggerate or act ridiculously to make their point, then they're likely to make the same decisions over and over again, to their own detriment emotionally and credibility-wise. And well, I find people tend to conflate mediocrity with passionlessness. It is true that well-known passion projects seldom end up in between good and bad in terms of quality, but its not impossible for a game to turn out mediocre despite passion, and its in fact very very common for some smaller project to end up being much more well known and popular than a big project. Whether you think that's the result of being out of touch or something else (IMO its usually because the big project gets overthought and focus grouped excessively while the small project never had those problems, but your interpretation may vary), it happens to the best of creators. And when fans say they think a game is passionless, usually what they mean is that its boring. Its a common conflation between care and entertainment value-- that somehow enjoyable stuff can only come from people who are passionate and deeply thinking about games-- when that isn't inherently true (indeed, a surprising amount of video game developers aren't themselves gamers. They just like what they do or at least like the paycheck possibilities that come with doing well enough to get promoted to want to keep their job). The actual meaning of the word being used is more important, of course, but the mix-ups that happen are reflective of a larger misunderstanding of the creative process, and I do think its important to at least point out when its treated as the basis of an argument. Even if its not intentional, and I don't think most of the stuff here is, its still important to correct stuff.
  10. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    "Looking for a conveniently vague rebuttal"? Woah, that's very presumptuous. I was genuinely wrong about my information there, and I will fix my previous post accordingly. But there was no ill intent or intentional desperate reaching on my part. I was simply, well, mistaken. And it isn't even the only point I made.
  11. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    You also forgot that Sonic 4 wasn't actually intended to be a Classic Sonic game. In Japan it wasn't even called Sonic 4 or advertised as such, and the game itself is loaded with evidence to fortify what I'm saying. The rebrand was Sega's decision to make the spinoff possibly more appealing to Western players, who had been wanting a 2D game for awhile. Sonic 4 doesn't have accurate Classic physics because it was never trying to have accurate Classic physics. Forces and Generations are at least fair enough game, but Sonic Team had the rug pulled out from under it with Sonic 4. And well, we both know that there's several reasons that one product may do worse than another that has nothing to do with developer competancy or passion. Input is effort and work though, because without it there would be no output at all. You need to put something in to get something out, and for people providing insight and input to be listened to and respected, they need to be at least competent. Admittedly I don't know the specifics, but I recall there being an interview somewhere where it was mentioned that Sonic Team did a lot more work on Mania than normally gets acknowledged. Who is "they"? Sonic Forces was developed entirely by newbies. Lost World likewise was mostly newbies. Even Unleashed, Colors, and Gens. had different staff rotations working on them at various times within the three year period. What does scrapping the Sonic Team label and replacing everybody actually change, beyond appearance? Very little that wasn't already practically standard procedure already, except with even less people around with lots of experience working on Sonic. Besides maybe Iizuka and Onshima and some Sega people, nobody has had a decade to figure this out because Sonic Team seems to change staff after every game. Reminder that Sonic Team is not some amorphous mass-- its composed of people, and their amount of experience isn't postmarked by Sonic Unleashed's release but rather when they worked and when they were hired. And well, opinions. The Boost trilogy had solid physics. Forces did well on the Modern gameplay front, at least. The problems with Lost World weren't related to physics. And Gens. still has several excellent examples of good level design that most people can agree on (and personally, I quite liked Colors's and Lost World's level design too, something I know I'm not alone in). I don't find it at all easy to see that they're just plain incapable of doing it, because that opinion relies on the assumption that the games are so bad at level design and physics on a regular basis that anybody and everybody could agree on that, when that is clearly not the case. If they truly cared about their own work... well, that operates under the assumption that all the issues stem from the fact that they don't, when there's no real evidence beyond mistakes that could have happened for a ton of reasons besides lack of care and effort. What if instead of Classic Sonic, Sonic Team focused on making up for all the bad Sonic Boom games by working on making a good one? Opinions aside on how good of an idea this would be, would that mean that they didn't truly care about their work after all because they strove to do better with something that, unlike Mania, wasn't even a little bit their responsibility and isn't what Sega is pushing at the moment? Again with "they". "They" can be many, many people-- Sonic Team hasn't had a consistent staff since 2011 and even that year still had a lot of staff rotations going on. "They" can change once more, and the new "they" may well be perfectly capable of understanding Classic Sonic. "Never" is saying that its impossible for that to happen, but in theory, it is completely possible. Again with the "RUINED FOREVER" sentiments fans tend to have-- Sonic Team messes up Classic Sonic a couple of times and that means that there can never be a good Classic Sonic game made by Sonic Team ever again for the rest of time? Yeah, no. This is ridiculous. Its reasonable to not have any faith in a good change happening anytime soon, and/or to think that the right people for the job won't be on Sonic Team's crew anytime soon, but when an argument amounts to something that isn't actually all that elusive being presented as quite literally impossible, in this case people that understand Classic Sonic getting jobs at Sonic Team? Yep, fallen into an emotional thinking pitfall. Don't get me wrong, emotional thinking isn't actually bad, but it sure loves to exaggerate things in the worst way possible and that needs to be kept in check with logical thinking (and the opposite applies too-- logical thinking sure loves to callously disregard other people's needs and viewpoints, so it needs to be kept in check with emotional thinking).
  12. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    Just gonna leave it here that Sonic Mania was worked on by Sonic Team. Quite substantially, as matter of fact, and Sonic Team was suitably happy when Mania turned out good. Indeed, the reason it is what it is and not a remake of Sonic 1 and 2 with some extra bonus levels is actually because of Iizuka, who suggested the core concepts behind Mania and elevated the pitch to more than just a remake, coincidentally at a time when it was needed. So its a bit odd to read things like this (bolding mine)... ...when Mania is, by all accounts, as much a Sonic Team/Sega game as it is a Headcannon game. I'm not forcing anybody to be optimistic (though as a side note I do disagree very strongly with the statement that nobody can be optimistic about the future of 3D Sonic-- there are reasons, you may not agree with them and you don't have to, but they are there). But well, not gonna lie, its kind of annoying to see people put Mania on a pedestal as the antithesis to Sonic Team when it is, in part, Sonic Team's game. Sonic Team can't both be devoid of any passion and responsible for a passionfest, or both unwilling to work hard and willing to work its ass off to provide something special. And well, there's a good chance it isn't nearly that black and white anyway. I've said it once and I'll say it again-- if the only thing 3D Sonic needed was passion and knowledge, I wouldn't be able to count on one hand how many 3D fangames are actually close enough to being decent and there'd probably be a whole lot more of them in a finished state right about now, because nobody is denying the fans' passion and research. Budget, resources, management, etc. are vitally important too. And it shows, since a lot of 3D fangames have been worked on for much longer than Forces, but most fail to even get close to it in terms of quality and completeness despite that being kind of a low standard to match. And well, I could go on a long rant about how Forces doesn't actually qualify as a flop if it sold strongly, even if some people very vocally didn't like it, because a flop refers exclusively to something that has failed to sell. If you think the game is of poor or insufficient quality, fine, but don't make unsubstantiated claims to prove your point because that ultimately damages your arguments' credibility more than it helps. Especially if you don't actually need to make stuff up to prove your point. But that's kind of a tangent, so I'll stop here. I guess my overall point is-- there are no angels and there are no devils in games development, only people. Its a complicated situation and I'm certain if there were a simple and quick solution, it would have already been implemented. And well, whether its convenient or not, Sonic Mania is a recent Sonic Team game, and should be treated as such so that there aren't any people who worked on the game getting excluded from being credited for their work. If nothing else, its important to acknowledge this to avoid a "George Lucas" sort of situation-- where people put down a person for being little more than an incompetent hack, until said person leaves their work on the franchise and people kinda realize "fuck, this guy was actually valuable after all but he's not coming back because we convinced him that he's not wanted or needed." ---- As for the future of 3D Sonic and my reasons therein, I see baby steps in Forces. I like the ambition of the Avatar, the raising of stakes (which, while not required for a good story, is good to have every now and then to maintain interest), and I think the Lost World-y aspects of the game were actually handled in a way that improved on Lost World's mechanics and ideas (and not just the 3DS version either) which makes me really happy. I mean, finally, a Zavok fight that is actually well designed and good-- I never thought I needed it until Forces provided it. And well, baby steps might not be good enough for everybody, but I'm not expecting a 180 turnaround anyway. For now, from my perspective, things are vaguely oriented in the right direction and that keeps me satisfied. For now, anyway. While I can't say I know for sure what the future holds, knowing its history, I strongly doubt that this'll be an "everything is the same forever" kind of deal, and overall I think the next game at least won't be bad. There's potential to be mined from Forces; how will it be handled and what will be extracted is my big question.
  13. I still find it hilarious how, of all the things Maruku could have been mistranslated as during the localization process of Kirby Super Star, Nintendo's localizers chose Marx. Henceforth convincing several people in the anglosphere that said villain is not just a lying creepy douchebag, but also a metaphor for Communism. :P

    1. SupahBerry


      Well, the other option they had was "Mark," so...

    2. Mad Convoy

      Mad Convoy

      @SupahBerry "He's the villain you never expected but will be in your nightmares for the next week... And his name is... Mark."

      Yeah, doesn't really have a good ring to it. And "Max", which is how most of the localizers for other languages interpreted the name, isn't much better.

  14. Name an obscure Sonic game that you'd like to see remade someday.

    Sonic Shuffle for me, as I think its a very interesting take on the Mario Party formula with as much potential as it has loading screens and other annoyances.

    1. tailsBOOM!



    2. Kiah


      I was thinking Sonic Shuffle as well. I’m a sucker for party games and even amid its issues I wanted to play it yet never had the means to do so.

    3. Teoskaven


      Tails Adventure is my first thought as well. A Metroidvania using Tails' intellect to come up with new gadgets and upgrades to progress sounds way too good to not be used.

    4. The Tenth Doctor

      The Tenth Doctor

      Sonic Battle for Switch please.

    5. blueblur98


      sonic free riders

      heck, they could just rerelease it with no new graphics or content but with controller support and i'd be down

    6. Diogenes


      sonic r

      though really i'm less interested in a straight remake than a sequel

    7. Sean


      I really want to see a Genesis-style remake of Triple Trouble (with appropriate adjustments and expansions to level design) because I don't think the hardware benefits its ambitions at all.

    8. Mr Loopone

      Mr Loopone

      Sonic Triple Trouble


      In that case, err... Sonic Spinball. I know its not obscure but its really one of those games where it had the right idea but was badly executed with its dodgy framerate and inconsistent artwork. With a faster pace, better artwork and physics, it would be a joy to play. Either that or Sonic Pinball Party where that was obscure because it was on the GBA and having the entire screen available would be more fun to play. Wouldn't mind a sequel to Sonic R but less so on a remake because it was charming enough.

      Also thirding Tails Adventure.

    9. Sean


      I absolutely want a port of Sonic Pinball Party because it actually has extremely fantastic pinball physics and I poured a lot of hours into it back in the day

    10. JosepHenry


      @Sean So basically this?


      And yes, Tails Adventure. 

    11. Blue Wisps

      Blue Wisps

      Sonic and the Black Knight.

      60fps 4k and no motion controls.

    12. VEDJ-F



      You never said we had to go for likely options. 

    13. tailsBOOM!


      @Blue WispI wouldn't truly consider it obscure: It's original release was on console and it is only 9 years old...

    14. DreamSaturn


      Definitely Tails Adventure or Sonic Pocket Adventure.


    15. Wraith


      knuckles chaotix because i like the ideas and the characters and the setting and the music but i dont like playing it much

    16. Yeow


      sonic 3D: flickies island

      (also sonic r and chaotix, but those have already been covered)

    17. Adamabba


      SegaSonic the Hedgehog

    18. Bobnik


      Sonic R, but make it boost edition.

  15. Mad Convoy

    Your outlook for the 3D series

    Who can tell? I know its easy to take the negative route, but remember that Sonic Team isn't just this amorphic mass. The developers are changing constantly-- the people who made Generations aren't the same people who worked on Forces, for example-- and of course Sega's role can't be discounted as executive meddling is far more important than developer competency or whatever the buzzword of the week is in determining if a game is good or not. I mean, its easy to point fingers and hate a label, but that's (hypocritically, in some contexts) super lazy and uninformed. The branding on the employees' name tags isn't the problem-- individual people are, and well, I've gotten the impression for awhile that most of the really big problem causers have "Sega" on their name tags anyway rather than "Sonic Team". I dunno. It seems like every time something's remotely disappointing the fans cry "RUINED FOREVER!", but that disappears the moment something people like comes out and people carry on like they weren't just crying doom and gloom a few months ago. Just two years ago, people were saying that third parties have no right going anywhere near Sonic because Rise of Lyric proves only Japanese Sonic Team truly understands Sonic. Now its the opposite-- only third party developers are worthwhile because Sonic Mania proves that only they can truly understand Sonic and not Sonic Team. In other words, trying to push for developer relationships with long term implications, but only basing it on whatever's just been released without considering the history and context. Which I mean, that's the exact kind of shortsightedness that tends to bring Sega and whoever its working with down, and its more harmful than helpful to encourage this kind of attitude. A single game doesn't prove crap about what label works best for Sonic development-- its about running themes and patterns throughout the games. (And as a side note, its almost always framed as deliberate, like Sega meant for Rise of Lyric, etc. to come out the way it did, which annoys me too. And well, no, it isn't. Outside of scam companies, which Sega is not, developers don't set out to make bad games. Things happen. Unexpected hurdles appear, as many a fan trying to make a 3D Sonic game have found. Decisions that seem poor were actually the best option given the time frame and budget, another thing 3D fangame makers have found. Good or bad, a game is generally a product of hard work, if only because games development isn't easy. "Work harder" in general is a very dismissive and lazy bit of advice when it comes from somebody who doesn't have a deep insider's look-- it often ranges from being woefully uninformed about the complexities of situation at hand to outright blaming the victim when things go wrong, and is only correct by coincidence rather than by good evidence/reasoning. If the problem with 3D Sonic was truly rooted in a team that didn't care, I wouldn't be able to count on one hand how many 3D Sonic fangame are decent, let alone good, because nobody is going to dispute a fan's passion for their work without good reason.) So I guess I'll say that I don't really know beyond that I personally don't mind the direction the series is taking right now. And, well, that's okay. I'm not afraid of what I don't know, and while I would be disappointed, I can handle it if the series goes off on a direction I don't like. Its not like that isn't happening right now with Mania as I don't even like Classic Sonic games all that much, but I still got Colors and Lost World and all those other Sonic things I love so much and they aren't going away just because of Mania.

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