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Posts posted by NotHole

  1. Sales estimates to comic shops for May have been released. The numbers in brackets are copies that shipped in May so those are probably the additional printings.

    Sonic the Hedgehog
    04______1______21362 [3331]
    04______2______14684 [1804]
    04______3______13779 [1589]
    04______4______13225 [2027]

    A modest drop. Next month might be more interesting. #6 is the first month orders will have been done after those first issues came out in shops so retailers had a better idea of the demand for the book with it.

  2. 5 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

    Issue 1 has become the best-selling Sonic comic ever.

    The previous record-holder was...Sonic Boom #1. Huh.

    Best selling ever is over stating it. It's within specific parameters: The best selling post-1996 to comic shops and ignoring Sonic Worlds Battle Unite #1. IDW #1 is outsold by a typical Archie issue when you factor in the latter's newsstand sales and subs.

    Boom had a larger than usual debut because it had four variant covers. Those have always given the books a boost in comic shops.

    3 hours ago, Sega DogTagz said:

    I heard that this initial run of Sonic also topped out on IDWs catalog this month. Just out of rampant curiosity, what are the average sales of IDWs best performing series outside of Sonic? It'd be interesting to see if the Sonic series settles into an anchor spot of that this new publisher has to offer. That would probably be the single best indicator that a second spin off book could be profitable for the company.

    It did. After #4 at 13K, the next IDW books are Star Wars Adventures #9 at 12K, TMNT #81 at 11K and My Little Pony #65 at 8K and TMNT's companion series, TMNT Universe #21 at 7K.

    It's way too early to make a comparison when Sonic only has a month of sales, but some data points: Most IDW books are selling in the 4K - 7K range. Star Wars Adventures #1 and TMNT Universe #1 started at 49K and 34K respectively before falling to where they are now.

  3. 5 hours ago, SoNich said:

    Ah that explains it, thanks for the info! You're right, issue #1's tend to debut high and then trail off to an average amount. In this instance, you can essentially included #1-4 in this effect. I would suspect around 10K+ for issue #5 going and probably settle around 9-10k within a year. 

    I agree. A drop larger than 2K for #5 would be both surprising and worrying. I do think within a few months sales will land just above Archie's upper range before settling into standard attrition, though. Sonic has just always had a ceiling in the direct market. Between that, the gentle freefall the book was in during its last year at Archie and these initial sales, I'm not convinced keeping everything the same except the publisher on the cover will change much. But's that's obviously a gut feeling guess.

    1 hour ago, Nestor said:

    Do these sales numbers include online purchases?

    They're sales estimates to comic shops. So they don't actually reflect sales to print readers either, just what was shipped to shops.

  4. 14 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

    Sonic #1 - 21,362
    Sonic #2 - 14,684
    Sonic #3 - 13,779
    Sonic #4 - 13,225

    That doesn't seem too much higher than the Archie Sonic average (9 - 10k by the end) going by the figure its trending down to. 

    Edit: For comparison's sake, these are the figures for the first four issues of Sonic Boom.

    Sonic Boom #1 - 17,228

    Sonic Boom #2 - 8,216

    Sonic Boom #3 - 7,474

    Sonic Boom #4 - 6,957

    So it has started higher than that, and stabilised at a higher point. Although bear in mind it's yet to face the challenge of monthly retention. 

    These are okay. Neither bad nor great. With all the promotion they were doing, I was expecting them to be higher. 30K debut, 20K for the weekly issues, trickling down from 15K to 8K over the first year.

    The Boom comparison doesn't entirely work due to the weekly release. The drops between IDW's #2 - 4 are relatively conservative because retailers ordered them all at the same time and they were collectively treated like Boom's #2 was. There's probably going to be a more substantial drop with #5.

    13 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

    I don't think it's so much that they have smaller print runs regular (otherwise we'd hear about MLP getting second printings all the time), more that the print runs for these issues were restricted. All the numbers line up to a 10k print run for all of them (at least for direct market alone), which is way lower than you'd expect in a print run for Sonic.

    Print runs are determined from pre-orders. If #132 or whatever has pre-orders of 7500, you're going to print close to that. If #1 has pre-orders of 30500, you might go higher on the print run because you know a jumping on point like that will have re-order activity. Or you might still keep it close to the pre-order number and instead just do additional printings if the demand is there. This is why it's relatively easy to game the system and you've gotta take the whole "#X sold out!" with a grain of salt. An issue selling out could just mean "We successfully shipped every pre-order."

    These sales also don't include the additional printings. Those haven't shipped yet.

    1 hour ago, SoNich said:


    IDW Issue #1-4 blew pretty much any arc Archie ever did out of the water. They also achieved these numbers without fatiguing buyers with 4 issues in 1 month. Archie sales averaged around 6,000 copies a month with only special events or milestone issues ever reaching even close to these numbers.

    I mean, this was a highly promoted reboot and #1. The biggest special event and milestone a comic can do.

    Also Sonic Worlds Battle Unite had 43K sales because it was included in one of those Loot Crate-like things.

  5. On 7/28/2017 at 0:39 AM, VEDJ-F said:

    We don't know that. Seriously, all people based that off was the direct sales even though it was stressed multiple times that the Mega Drive arc was primarily not direct sales-related even moreso than the regular comics.

    That was never stressed by anyone because the opposite is true. Mega Drive didn't have subs or newsstand distribution and it was only sold through the direct market. plus whatever business it did through digital and the Archie shop. That's why the social media campaign for the book was centered around having fans pre-order it through their comic shop.

  6. 4 hours ago, Barry the Nomad said:

    Regardless of TMNT rights, classic Archie reprints show that IDW has a working relationship with them, so should Archie need to be involved at all there is already that professional connection.

    My point being that if another publisher picked up the license, an existing relationship with Archie would be irrelevant. There's no scenario where Archie would be involved.

  7. 34 minutes ago, Barry the Nomad said:

    IDW already publishes some TPBs for Archie (TMNT Adventures and classic Archie) so I could see them signing a deal to continue the reprints.

    Archie doesn't have any ownership of TMNT Adventures. That's done through Nickelodeon and Mirage before them. When Archie did a trade back in 2009, they had to re-license the issues from Mirage.

    The same applies to Sonic, too. The rights for trades of old issues would be picked up through Sega without any involvement with Archie and would probably be included with the license for new issues. Although digital seems to be a different deal. Through all of this, Archie's Sonic section has never left Comixology.

  8. If Archie keeps the license, a relaunch will need to happen. Not necessarily a renumbering and/or a reboot, but they can't pick up where they left off and continue like nothing happened. Direct market sales were already going down in part because of the first hiatus. They'll have been gone for nearly a year in a medium built around creating habitual buyers. A lot of people were just broken of their Sonic buying habit and they won't be picking up new readers with part four of a flashback arc. If they don't return with something they can promote as a jumping on point for new and lapsed readers, something like Genesis, the book will have come back just to get cancelled.

    If a different publisher has picked up the license, no more subs and magazine/digest reprints. The book will live or die entirely by its direct market sales for better or worse.

  9. This seems pretty straight forward. Jughead was quietly cancelled and #16 is the last issue. They don't have to mention that in solicitations. It was probably canned when there wasn't a boost from attaching Waid (and Flynn) to the book. For comparison, Ryan North's last issue sold 5864; Waid (and Flynn)'s first issue sold 5805. It looks like the same thing happened to Josie & the Pussycats which 1) wraps its current arc in August; 2) is missing from September; 3) is selling a little below Jughead.

    In the case of Betty & Veronica, #3 was Adam Hughes' last issue. That they're still offering subs could mean it's going to continue, either with #4 or a new #1, with a new creative team.

  10. On 6/16/2017 at 9:23 PM, RushFan11 said:

    I hope the comic doesn't end, it would really suck for a comic which has lasted over 20 years, nearly 300 issues in the main series and hundreds more spinoffs, and captured the imaginations of tons of readers to end with a whimper.

    Two of three books getting cut off mid-arc is more worst case scenario than I expected, but the nature of the comic meant a whimper was its inevitable ending. There was never a possibility of a planned narrative conclusion or a celebratory send-off. It was going to drop off into unprofitability and have a hastily thrown together wrap-up like Mega Man or Archie was going to lose the license and it was just going to stop.

  11. 17 hours ago, ChromeDome93 said:

    But I think it's clear by now that this was never something that Archie planned for or wanted - these were their highest selling titles and were close to anniversary issues that would have bumped up sales even higher - especially during a year with two big video game releases.

    The Sonic books were Archie's lowest selling titles following the relaunch of the Archie books.* Not by a huge margin in some cases. Jughead was typically 2K ahead of Sonic.

    *Lowest selling monthlies. The sporadically shipping and quickly cancelled Black Circle books were usually 2 or 3K below Sonic.

  12. 4 hours ago, Borvoc said:

    They eventually had to reboot the comics as TMNT Amazing Adventures, where they loosened restrictions, keeping the feel of the show but allowing it to do its own thing, which improved the book and, assumingly, increased sales. (It hasn't been rebooted again yet, though the reboot slated for the associated TV show after the current season will likely change this.)


    Amazing Adventures was cancelled last fall, likely because it had the same sales as New Animated Adventures. It was succeeded by a crossover mini between the Nick Turtles and Batman: The Animated Series and then a three issue mini called Robotanimals that starts next month.

  13. 1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

    Even if that was the case, it's not exactly showing good signs for future employers if you leak information they don't want announced or revealed. 

    Their name wasn't attached to the leak. I doubt it would matter much if it even was because no one knows or cares about this stuff outside of Sonic fandom.

  14. Tyson has said he didn't sign an NDA and that he hasn't said more about what's going on out of courtesy.

    These aren't state secrets. Ian and most of the artists likely know happened. If they had lost their main source of income for months without any explanation, there would be more anger and less obfuscation from someone in that circle.

    32 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

    Even if they weren't working on Sonic anymore, they'd almost definitely want to keep their foot in Archie's door for potential work on any of their other series, as shown with Ian starting his Jughead run, so again, I don't see why anyone would run the gambit of supposedly leaking this too soon and screwing themselves over in the long run.

    Because they didn't like working for Archie and have no interest in ever returning there.

  15. Some things to keep in mind regarding the license going to a different publisher:

    No one else has Archie's newsstand/subscription distribution (other than DC and Marvel to an extent and neither wants the license) so those sales are off the table. Meaning IDW or any interested publisher would look more closely at the direct market sales. Those haven't been great and are unlikely to justify a keep-everything-the-same attitude.

    Archie has lost the license but digital copies of the books are still available as are the majority of their trades. The biggest reason to not reboot would be to keep interest in the backcatalog, but a new publisher would only be advertising for a competitor in this case.

    16 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

    That's not to mention the contradictions in the story.

    I'm not seeing the contradictions. Fans have been in the dark for months and there has been very little backlash. Some people are still in denial that the book is even ending at Archie. If they announce tomorrow that the Sonic subs are being changed to something else that draws a definitive line in the sand. More people will notice and be angry.

    Mega Man and Boom were different circumstances. They didn't lose the license for those books without notice.

    Personally I'm expecting the fabled e-mail update to go out next week. No update will be given for the status of the Sonic books, but it will announce that the subs have been changed to Jughead because Ian's first issue on the book is released next week. If they're not interested in Jughead, they'll have the alternative of changing their sub to store credit.

  16. 58 minutes ago, Borvoc said:

    Wait. Mega Drive didn't sell significantly better than then regular ongoing Sonic boos? Where did this narrative come from, then?

    I can't speculate Archie's expectations for the book because none of us can know those, but every publisher understandably wants to present the narrative that their book is a huge success. That's why Sonic Boom #1's cover says "Based on the hit new video game" despite...you know.

    I would guess a little of it was wish-fulfillment on fans part and a lot of it was undue weight given to the second printing. Another often repeated mistake is that Mega Drive was the first Sonic comic with an additional printing. A lot of the early specials and minis had multiple printings because Archie kept them in print for years. Comic shops were ordering copies of Sonic in Your Face as late as 2005.

    58 minutes ago, Borvoc said:

    Meh. If you ask me, the Sonic comic (and probably the Mega Man book as well) really are/were some of the best stuff in the industry recently. I know my opinion doesn't match up with popular opinion, but to me they beat out what Marvel and DC have been up to.

    My intent wasn't to disparage the quality of the Sonic/Mega Man books. But I do think a preaching to choir thing happens with them. Sonic/Mega Man fans on Sonic/Mega Man messageboards/social media spaces telling other Sonic/Mega Man fans that the books are the best comics being published.

  17. Okay a few things being said here need to be debunked.

    1: The Red/Dark Circle characters are Archie. They don't have to pay a license to publish them, unlike Sonic. Most importantly if they're made into a TV show/movie, Archie is a part of that, unlike Sonic. There's nothing inconsistent about saying Sonic is not Archie and continuing to publish those characters. Similarly expanding their business doesn't mean making more licensed books if they've determined their business is selling comics/TV shows/movies based on Archie characters.

    2: Sonic's direct market sales had been trending downward for the last couple years, and Ian did not say sales were going swimmingly. He said they weren't in danger of cancellation and subs had been going up. Without wider context that doesn't say much. Were subs going up after staying the same for years? After dropping sharply off?

    3: This is a bit of a tangent, but I see the opposite repeated frequently with nothing backing it up so: Mega Drive was not a huge seller. It primarily did its sales through the direct market, hence the push Ian and the gang made through social media to get fans into shops to buy it. We have estimates of those numbers. The first issue shipped almost 6.8K. For perspective, #282 from a couple months earlier also sold 6.8K. The second issue shipped 5K. The Universe issue released in that same month, #92, also sold 5K. Mega Drive sold within the range of what would be expected for a Sonic comic.

    "But it got a second printing." This is useless metric when print runs are determined through final orders. One comic can sell 80K and not get a second printing. Another comic can sell 5K and get a second printing of 1K.

    4: Mega Man had lousy sales and was hardly regarded as one of the best comics on the market. Outside of Sonic comic and Mega Man fans, it was ignored, just like the Sonic comics. These are niche books.

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