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UpCDownCLeftCRightC

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  1. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Does Sonic Forces have you awaiting the next 3D game announcement?

    I agree. The problem is more Sonic Team bringing back these characters nearly every game, regardless of their relevance to the story, even as cheerleaders. Shadow, silver, and even knuckles to a large degree have had this problem, as well as some others. And this isn't really the fans fault. They only do it when they feel it the game will attract the most fans possible (which is a good goal in and of itself) but without paying attention to numerous long term consequences.
  2. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Does Sonic Forces have you awaiting the next 3D game announcement?

    That's a fair criticism. I apologize to anyone who thought I was saying that. I have several friends who love SA2 and we disagree on how good that game was constantly. I say similar things but they can easily understand I'm not insulting them. Some of my friends (some ) are actually brilliant people. I just happen to think the writing in that game was handled in a childish way. Not childish in the sense that that's who the target audience is but as in, the person writing the story wrote it with severe lack of attention to detail and consistency, which is the hallmark of an inexperienced writer. Sonic Team not improving in their writing is really a commentary on them, not on the series' need for better writing itself. The stories can definitely use better, more consistent writing and should have received it long ago but....consistent writing and world building has not been a priority for the franchise. I 100% wish it was and think it should, but it hasn't been.
  3. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Does Sonic Forces have you awaiting the next 3D game announcement?

    I won't try to convince you otherwise if you feel SA2 is the best written Sonic story ever. Obviously we have very wide disagreement on this but this thread is more of a reaction to Forces. All I'll say generally about both of your paragraphs is that I think Sonic can be handled much more skillfully in the writing department than he has been, mostly on all fronts. The standard has been quite low in my opinion and it wouldn't take a Hemingway to raise it.
  4. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Does Sonic Forces have you awaiting the next 3D game announcement?

    This is undoubtedly a large part of it. But the reason the original games in the series still maintain their strong reputation (unlike, say, the adventure games which reviewed well immediately after their release but aged very quickly and now are quite polarizing) is because they were solidly made games that people still continue to play 20 years later. I completely agree that the marketing and branding aspect will continue to be the largest part of the equation going forward but Sonic can't escape his reputation by continuing to make poor games because the series is now known primarily for continually churning out subpar games. It needs to regain that iconic status it once had in terms of gameplay. An easy way to do that is to remember what Sonic was created to do before you start building anything else on top of it. Never said I hate SA2. In fact I don't. I've said that many times on this site. I've played it and enjoyed many hours of it. My favorite 3D Sonic game? Far from it but I don't believe it to be a trainwreck like some other Sonic games obviously have been. SA2's story however, is stupid and poorly written. Again, I don't think the Sonic series has ever been particularly good in that department even at its best. It surely can be though. And Forces missed a ton of opportunities with its story. Its premise was actually a good one that hadn't been done in the series before but it wasted essentially all of the potential with common writing sins "Show, don't tell" in many instances, and was full of lines written in very poor taste. Also not the worst in the series but not a well written story. Also in general, if I or anyone comment on an aspect of a game and think its stupid, its not a personal attack. This should be easy to understand. Attacking someone personally for liking something is being a douche. Saying you don't like that game or criticizing is not a personal attack. There are many younger fans who don't care for Sonic 3 and Knuckles of Mania and talk crap about those games and I don't get my underpants in a bunch. They have their preferences and are not attacking me personally. Its okay that they don't like them even if I do. The world is completely filled with those kind of situations.
  5. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Does Sonic Forces have you awaiting the next 3D game announcement?

    Wow. There are still people who think Sonic adventure 2 was an example of a dark story done right. I thought for sure by now we'd all grown up and realized how stupid and poorly written that was. Even when I was 13 I thought that. And it's not even as low as this series has gone in that department. Forces wasn't written much worse than SA2, really. To distinguish the two I'd say SA2 was stupid but at least memorable in some of those parts, and Forces was stupid and almost completely forgettable. But the writing standards for this series in general aren't high. At best, they're generally okay.
  6. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Does Sonic Forces have you awaiting the next 3D game announcement?

    Time isnt the issue. Its vision and focus. More time (than the 4 years it took to make forces) isn't going to cure the series issues. What will fix them is for SEGA/SonicTeam to have a clear vision for what they want the brand to be. Then they need to stick to their plan and realize they cant please absolutely every sect of fans, but they can make the series popular with general audiences again by having a strong brand with a clear identity, and consistency...which is what really matters for an iconic series like sonic. When people no longer are confused about what the series is and come to expect excellent games, the series will be fully restored. But they need to pick a direction without worrying about ticking off one of their many subgroups of fans. It almost doesnt matter what direction they decide to go in (they should probably try to remember what made the series popular in the first place though) as long as they are consistently excellent about their offerings.
  7. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    HOT TAKE: Should Sonic Team stop listening to the fans?

    I agree for the most part. This is partly why I believe 3D sonic, even with its hardships, is still worth investing in. The potential of the series when done right is pretty astronomically high in my opinion. I've always believed sonic's full potential is in 3D and his games could provide the best platforming experience of a large, freedom filled adventure. And I've been a fan since the early classic days and still swear by S3K as the best in the franchise up to date. 2D sonic alone wont get sonic back to similar status we saw in the 90s. An awesome 3D game definitely can, since the hype would undoubtedly be much greater for a sonic game finally done right in 3D. But in the meantime, until we get a development team with the right ingredients to truly pull that off, I definitely believe sticking to his 2D roots could carry the series. Even in the so called modern sonic boost games, they could use a lesson or two from the mania gameplay in how to better use space for player interaction within the levels. You're going to have to be somewhat reasonable here and realize that a popular series like sonic, or mario, or pokemon....whatever the name of the series, if its selling multiple millions of copies to casuals and clearly shows general audience appeal, it should continue to do so. That what sonic was created for from the beginning anyway. To be a mass market giant to compete with mario, THE mass market giant. All this talk about niche appeal and whatever...that's the result of the sonic franchise's poor brand management. Sonic is definitely meant to be a big AAA series and appeal to the casual fan as well as us.
  8. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    HOT TAKE: Should Sonic Team stop listening to the fans?

    Yeah this is hyperbole. As some have said, using the 2D formula or generally the classic aesthetic does not mean making the same exact game every time. Also, a game being in 2 dimensions does not limit the number of opportunities for new content, in any way. In general, regardless of the number of dimensions, having a consistent identity does not mean churning out the same product every time. I've asked this before, but what convinces fans that most gamers want to play 3D games that have ideas scattered all over the place (and no quality control)? Some people are grossly unaware of the series history and how we got to where we are now, where both we the audience and SEGA have no idea where Sonic is going to go next. .
  9. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    HOT TAKE: Should Sonic Team stop listening to the fans?

    What makes the fans think they can even make a playable, fully developed 3D sonic game, much less tell sonic team how to make one? There have been basically zero legitimate fan contributions towards solving this problem (sonic utopia being the only interesting "concept" worth anything at all...evidenced by yuki naka's reaction to it) 3D sonic fans are so divided on what the game should be and often pay so little attention to game design details that propping them up as a possible game design committee is a joke in and of itself. They generally only know what THEY like specifically, and otherwise have no idea what they're talking about.... not what is feasible or how to effectively communicate these ideas into proper execution. Christian Whitehead and company are fans of the sonic series but were also legitimate game designers in their own right with proven works. So Mania was not made by a bunch of rooks spewing nonsense out of their pie holes. Green hill paradise and the likes are not sonic games, they're tech demos which anyone can do and are not impressive or interesting in solving this 3D problem. It takes a lot of effort by a large team of devs to make these games. Sonic Team could use a shot of passion(more than anything, they need a strong vision!), but the entire process needs to be handled with competency and vision if it's to be solved. Even if it isnt sonic team that picks up the mantle in the future it should still be people that have legitimate game development experience, especially with the 3D games.
  10. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    HOT TAKE: Should Sonic Team stop listening to the fans?

    This is really the central problem. They need to pick a direction based on some consistent vision that they have for the franchise, and that they themselves come up with first, not us. Kind of like the OG title sonic 1. Or to a lesser extent, sonic adventure 1 for the dreamcast. They didn't need fans to tell them how to make those games. They just did based on a vision and clear direction they had for themselves. The sequels are the time to use fan feedback to know what worked and what didnt. Right now theres no foundation for feedback, since theres no clear established vision for what sonic is or should be. Right now and for the bulk of the last 20 years, sonic has been many things to many people, with no wide agreement on any of it really. Part of having a vision comes from having passion though. Who at SEGA has real passion for sonic's future these days? This is not a criticism or insult, I'm just recognizing they've been taking punches from the media and fans for a long time now (due to their own choices, to be sure). Sonic future does look questionable, and there isn't a common, purveying sense of optimism surrounding the big titles these days. 3D Sonic most probably needs a current day Yuji Naka/Hirokazu yasuhara/Naoto oshima equivalent in its braintrust...and also for SOJ or SOA to fully commit behind his potential.
  11. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Defending The Treasure Hunting...

    True. I only made the point that I think it could exist and be executed well within that framework. How to do the collectathon thing is a different discussion. As it was in the adventure games, it was not a great concept.
  12. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    Defending The Treasure Hunting...

    A bit of irony here. While I think the treasure hunting was mediocre at best in both adventure games, worse in SA2 for sure, I actually do think they could work in a future 3D sonic title. No not an adventure title but in a open world game like a sonic utopia as the base concept. It'd be rather simple to execute it effectively within that concept. P.S. Mech shooting, no. Rest forever in peace.
  13. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    How has Sonic Forces affected your opinion of Sonic Team?

    Honestly, in spite of all my remarks about disappointment and expectations with being a long time fan and craving for sonic team to do better.....this is probably the most reasonable attitude for any fan to have.
  14. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    How has Sonic Forces affected your opinion of Sonic Team?

    Get out while you still can
  15. UpCDownCLeftCRightC

    How much of an important character would you say Amy is?

    Hmm....it seems I made a mistake. You're right that I read the thread wrong. I'm so used to talking about the games! D'oh. As for creating a fanfic, well that's a completely different. What kind of story is the OP trying to write? What are some themes and ideas that matter to you? Doesnt have to be important at all but maybe it could help in terms of picking the right characters to fit. If it's just a character driven story, then you kind of pick the characters first and fit a scenario around them. Amy has enough potential as a character to fit in any of these kinds of stories.
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