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Everything posted by UpCDownCLeftCRightC

  1. Like some have said, definitely the mid 2000s, from like 2003-2007. The downspiral and then rock bottom the series has still not recovered from 15 years later. Having witnessed the entire history of this franchise, I can say that the was by far the worst things have gotten, watching Sonic spiral down the drain like that. ....but the last 4 years have got to be among the most boring in the franchise history for me. I realize this is a weird statement with the outstanding Mania.....Part of it is because I'm an adult now but also because I have really no idea what to expect out of this series now. I know what I think makes sense and can only guess where SEGA will take sonic next but....that means little without consistency which we havent seen a lot of in this franchise in a long time. The only thing I basically expect is for games to be of middling quality, while hoping for that long awaited 3D game that finally nails the translation of Sonic's classic gameplay. So that's basically it for me. I was never really looking for a reboot of 2D sonic. 2D sonic peaked for me with S3K and I dont think it can practically be topped, it was as close to perfection as possible for the formula. I just want a 3D sonic that approaches that quality, even if it takes a few games to build towards like with sonic 1, sonic 2, sonic cd, etc. But building a good foundation is the primary thing I've wanted. With the exception of unleashed-gens we havent gotten that and definitely not as a 3D platformer which is what I've always wanted sonic to be, rather than a 2.5D hybrid (although fun in it's own right). Boring is better than 06 like disaster but as a fan.....not by much.
  2. Probably 2 or 3 copies of the genesis original. Cant remember when they disappeared. Had mega collection on gamecube but then sold that awhile back. Regret it.
  3. This is hard because I have personal favorites list and then I have my "objective" critique list. Here's the latter: Generations > Colors > SA1 > Unleashed = SA2 > Lost world = Forces > Heroes > Shadow> Secret Rings > Boom > 06 For my personal favorites (not what the thread asked) SA1 > Generations > Unleashed > SA2 > Colors > Lost World > Shadow > Heroes > Secret Rings > Forces >>>>>>> Boom > 06 Generations wins by default because it is the best designed and most consistent 3D sonic game to date. The gameplay is not perfect but it can be exhilarating and most importantly, most of the game is of the same relative quality. In fact for this reason, Generations is really the only 3D sonic game that I could recommend to a casual fan to try if they've never played a sonic game before. The other games have bits of fun throughout but have too much junk/filler gameplay that detracts from the core experience. SA1 actually has the best 3D sonic gameplay, taken alone. But only about half of the game can claim to be that and the gameplay can be quite rough to navigate at times.
  4. That's because Adventure 2's soundtrack was balls. *dodges projectiles*
  5. Me too. I suppose the time is as right as any. The previous iteration of Sonic (boost) has seen its positive momentum kind of stalled with Forces' underwhelming reception. There has been a consistent fan outcry in the fanbase for Adventure, moreso post Mania and the classic era fans seemingly finally having what they've wanted. Also in general, Sonic Adventure is recognized by many as perhaps the only serious attempt by Sonic Team at a classic in 3D formula. Coming off of Mania's success, that would seem like a logical priority to make. But as of now these are just things we hope for. I really do hope of they do anything adventure related at all, they stick to an SA1 remake. Makes much more sense than SA3 honestly, which at this point has already happened in some capacity or another and doesnt deserve a shot at the moment. SA1 if the bugs and gameplay issues are worked out could actually solve all of 3D sonic's problem properly, in one go. But once more, these are things we hope for. This reads like an awful poem.
  6. I feel you. The irony in the post though is that the modern timeline is essentially the evolution of the original timeline starting from S1. Sonic did all that stuff, somehow didn't age much, got taller, and his eyes turned green. Those details are irrelavant to the fact that all those stories happened in the modern timeline. You can consider that the Universe 1 sonic if you will. The fact that the stories aren't usually written well doesnt take away from the fact that "Modern Sonic" is the evolution of sonic on the original timeline. The "Modern Classic" sonic is Universe 2 and represents the actual split. Sonic is still pre-adventure in Mania, which follows S3K. To be honest I'm not super fond of Modern Classic, and I'm about as big a "classic era" fan as you'll find. Modern classic doesnt feel quite the same to me as the original did, at least how he was commonly portrayed in the west as well as the gameplay nuance. He feels like a reminder that SEGA remembers the surface level appeal of the character but has completely forgotten why playing the games became so addictive in the first place. I didnt care that Sonic got 'a little' taller during his jump to 3D (although Sonic 06 was fairly offensive) or that he had green eyes then. I cared about the progressive loss of the gameplay identity and to a lesser extent the tone and art direction of the series. If Modern's gameplay was still on point, most of my issues with the series would go away instantly.
  7. I think unification (with some cutting) would ultimately allow the series to become more focused and reach a higher sales potential. But unification of the brand in a way that pleases a wider general audience and increases total sales volume would also piss off many die hard fans particularly if the resulting unification does not result in stronger titles. It also could only be executed with a strong vision for what the brand should be, rather than just throwing things at the wall or just responding to surface level criticism via fan feedback. I do not know what SEGA of America's vision is for Sonic and it's hard to believe that given the state of the series that they are interested in doing anything but building momentum on the small number of successes they have had in the last 10 years. After Generations the series had some credit to build on, in that a few solid performances in a row allowed them space to think about how to make Sonic bigger and better (although that didnt happen). Right now the series doesn't have a lot, particularly since Forces underwhelmed after being the first major production in over 4 years, and coming off of a disastrous title in Boom. So where the series is now and based on what Sonic has been, the safest route is to continue the classic/modern split. This ensures a baseline of sales for the series to continue to exist for at least the short term future, and for us diehards to keep getting Sonic games.
  8. I actually think it has more to do with the increased difficulty in designing a nontrivial boss for sonic in a 3D space. It's much easier to design bosses in a 2D plane with a smaller battlefield and fixed camera view. In a sense it is easier to exploit such a set up for different iterations of a boss coming emerging from somewhere off screen to attack you in a set pattern and then dip away. 3D sonic has none of these constraints and thus you must take all of them into account while still trying to create a boss that is a markedly different experience than the last.
  9. I dont think any ships are at all necessary in this series, nor do I believe they would help in any sort of way. If they exist, cool, but sonic as a concept does not necessitate this kind of stuff whatsoever.
  10. I wouldnt mind focusing on new characters and concepts as long as the list of characters is low. Say, 3 tops. Once you start expanding your gameplay too much beyond the fundamentals you start running into development problems and not enough focus and justice is done to each minor playstyle and the overall refinement of the experience. For example, I actually didn't mind Gamma's playthrough from SA1; not the greatest stuff but it was short and simple. But that gameplay definitely could have been nixed in favor of developing Sonic's gameplay a little more, which definitely needed the extra polish. But actually I wouldnt mind new characters at all. Sonic's cast should best be used like a revolving door for situational use with a basic (but consistent) continuity and canon, and then when they are used...commit to them being relevant! That way you dont have to invent stupid reasons for characters to stick around that obviously have no good reason to every single time. Knuckles and Shadow are perfect examples of that (let it be known that knuckles has been a far greater abuser of that principle than shadow).
  11. And to add: I love sonic 3D blast. It's a memorable part of the classic era for me. The soundtrack and the general aesthetic and vibe were all pluses in my book and it was like an experiment into a very bare bones 3D classic sonic. However that game was hot trash, theres no debate about it. There was nothing broken about it, it's just that the isometric concept was not a very good one for that gameplay. You get basically none of the payoff of the momentum based gameplay in terms skill mastery, the physics are too slippery and all the spectacle is fully automated and unremarkable to look at.
  12. Trust me, I acknowledge SA1 often for being the only game to legitimately attempt it. I just think that wasnt its primary focus and it's not something I blame sonic team for. SA1 was the title that was supposed to sell the dreamcast and thus SEGA asked for it to be a lot more than just a sonic game...which was a mistake because the formula in 3D had not been established yet. Thus the game suffered in so many fundamental ways that ultimately ended up being a patchwork fix project. You can tell what it was trying to do but it did not succeed in any smooth way whatsoever. So like others have said, it kind of was and most definitely was the only one to seriously try....but it also kind of wasnt and the template was not successfully set. My point is that in my strong opinion we really really need a game that boils down the essence of what Sonic was meant to be in the looks department, the sound department, and most importantly the "feel" department in regards to the gameplay. I think re-establishing those things as well as the character himself would instantly right a lot of issues with the franchise, especially in regard to broader appeal. Hot on the heels of Mania I think it is the perfect opportunity to try something like a 3D classic sonic. And the best part about a 3D classic game is that a future sonic adventure sequel title could be built on top of the formula (although if I were to bet anything I'd guess an adventure remake will appear first). I just think it is clearly the right way to handle the current situation, the best way to set up the future.
  13. This doesn't mean much when Generations, a much better and longer game, took half the time to produce. Same with unleashed. There has been no such attempt at classic in 3D (SA1 coming the closest and even that didnt take 4 years). So theres no barometer on how long that kind of game might take. A proof of concept doesnt even exist as far as we know so it makes no sense to talk about why it wouldn't work when: 1) it hasnt really been tried and 2), the franchise 3D has still not really settled on or found an excellent 3D formula over 20 years later.
  14. It feels like there should be different categories of sonic based on how different some of the eras and many interpretations of the same character exist. But in practice this is hard to actually do in any logical way. One of the glaring inconsistencies in your OP is adventure sonic and modern sonic. You used a game like unleashed and claimed that was "adventure", when unleashed has much, much more in common with generations which is modern by your definition. And as is commonly understood, the unleashed and generations models are identical. So clearly you are wrong here. Sonic 06 Sonic is also visually different than SA1 and SA2, and those games if you take into account their dreamcast appearances can be thought of as different from each other. The heroes and shadow models are also different from 06 and SA1. This also applies to the classic era. There are quite a lot of interpretations of classic era sonic, from the American versions to the Japanese versions. There may be even more differences among them than the modern varieties. Heck even sonic 3 sonic is different than sonic 1 and sonic 2. This is ultimately why SEGA decided to just stick with classic and modern because the defintions get nonsensical when you start trying to reduce it further. I dont even like the separation of sonic really, but if we're going to do this we may as well not have any categories whatsoever. Just pick your favorite individula instance of the character and stick with that. My all time favorite is probably between sonic 3 sonic and the in game model for SA1 sonic. I like the darker blue hue as opposed to the early classic versions. I could do either brown or green eyes honestly, either way is fine. I also like the proportions of the character. Sonic got much too tall later in the series and he's supposed to be a short hedgehog that curls into a ball. I also love the sonic CD version for the expressiveness of the character. I think when many people reference that as a ideal for sonic, they are really talking about that as well as the slick animations of his acrobatics. When you watch it it just feels like Sonic boiled down to the bare bones of his essence. What he should be doing and wants to be doing. I think this same animation and expressiveness could also work with a subtly different art style as well. And for in game models I tend to lean SA1 as the best most logical proportions for the character (in 3D anyway).
  15. Well it doesn't currently seem as though sonic is just being passed off to random developers. What has essentially happened if my reading is correct, is that effective Sonic Team members ike Iizuka and others who still want to be working on Sonic games have moved to America, meaning that the games will be managed by Sega of America rather than Japan. It appears as though the responsibility for handling sonic is finally falling under the control of the west, which is where it should have been for a long time because Sonic's market has always been here. You do raise an important concern however; I don't know if his is true but Sonic Team disbanding could be an indication of Sonic in general not being the primary focus of the company going forward. Or at least SEGA is preparing for Sonic to not be the face of SEGA if he keeps releasing mediocre games that dont sell amazingly. I dont know this for a fact but this is what their moves appear to be to me. It puts pressure on those who are going to be working on him going forward because if they continue to not do well, Sonic won't have the resources he continually had in the past. That said, if there is any truth to my assessment whatsoever (and there may be none) it does allow SOA to focus more on what they think Sonic should be and do without the meddling of the company.
  16. I never suggested modern sonic should be replaced by classic for 3D. Modern sonic games could still be created even while a 3D classic sonic game existed. Modern games give you an opportunity to explore ideas outside of the typical sonic formula, as well as adding lots of new characters and stories. And it's not like classic games couldn't do that either; I'm merely just stating that I'd like for one single 3D game to channel all of that classic essence into a proper, smash hit of a 3D game. I would not limit classic sonic to 2D because even modern sonic has had 2D games. There's no reason to forbid classic to do 3D, especially if his games turn out to be better than modern's.
  17. This is such a cool design. I've seen it before but it's one I forget about often. Ugh...it makes me dream about the ONE 3D game I want that would fully embrace that design. Just once, nail sonic the way he was originally and put him in an awesome expansive 3D game that has the right feel. I swear I'd never complain about anything in this franchise again. Pinky swear.
  18. And to add on the rushing point, SEGA of Japan (executives) and Sonic Team are not the same group of people. SEGA can demand that sonic team rushes a game out to meet a deadline and Sonic Team cannot say a word about it. This has been documented to have happened continuously throughout the franchise's history, often at the expense of quality control, the most famous case being Sonic 06...but also even in the classic days. That is not Sonic Team's fault, they had no say in the matter.
  19. Anyone in his position since the mid 2000s would have done that. Sonic was constantly taking punches from the gaming press, especially in 2006, and someone needed to right the ship so he brand wasn't completely destroyed. He just like many others at the company learned a lot about what to do and what not to do and tried to build on their successes as much as possible, as well as keeping a finger on the pulse of fans.
  20. There are so, so many more common interpretations of classic sonic as a little blue hedgehog with a smirk and an attitude that I'm frankly surprised you would bother with this. This is very very obscure by comparison and was not a heavy part of marketing the character.
  21. The most annoying thing about the modern interpretation of classic sonic is this business about him being "cutesy". Sonic was just as much of a reckless, arrogant prick during the classic days and was always considered a teenager. His classic version would be the same exact age as the modern version. His entire schtick during the 90s was just a 'tude character that spawned dozens of copycats. Almost all of the media portrayals of him were as someone that was inherently cooler than Mario. The adventure redesign came at a time when sonic started to get competition from other edgy, badass looking characters, so SEGA felt like they needed to up the ante. Boy were they wrong, especially with Sonic becoming much more talkative which was one of the worst decisions they could have made, but it is understandable why they did so. I do not believe sonic should have remained a mute whatsoever, but him being action first, speak later helped him to avoid the cornyness of so many other characters that needed to sound "hip" and "act cool" to stay relevant, rather just just exuding coolness from doing inherently awesome things.
  22. Honestly Iizuka gets way too much hate. Having learned of his many contributions over the years and as an steady presence in the series, I can confidently say that without him the sonic series would have been much worse off since sonic 06. Theres no question about it. He's the sole longstanding member that has fought to keep sonic true to its roots, even though he undoubtedly has had some missteps along the way. Things have not gone great for sonic in a long time but people really have no idea that things could actually be worse. Sonic games could have permanently gone in a direction like Boom a long time ago, if not for people like Iizuka. Also adventure fans in general need to slow down and remember to honor this dude every once in a while because those games are HIS babies even more than Naka's. Especially the shadow arc from SA2 to 06, that is heavy heavy Iizuka influence. He's not going to disregard the classic era because he was a small part of it but he really made his bones with the adventure games. He was much more of a supporting staff member during the classic era, and a primary mover during the adventure era.
  23. Favorite: S3K. Best level design, best game overall. This game goes for a perfect balance of platforming, speed and exploration as many have noted. Theres so many more routes to discover and master than you might imagine on your first go round. It is meant to be replayed over and over and to discover new things every time while you improve. Also has the greatest 'feel' of a large scale adventure, taking sonic smoothly from one environment to the next. Definitely an epic for Sonic. Favorite game of all time, the closest to a 10/10 game that the series has had in its history. I hope it can be surpassed one day by a 3D sonic title, by basically "transforming" its ideas that worked well into the foundation of a new 3D concept. Sonic 1 - Not the second best Sonic game but I played this game as a preschooler and have a special sort of nostalgia for it. Though the formula was unrefined here I feel that this game did the best job of minding sonic's actual anatomy as a short hedgehog, and thought carefully about gameplay centered around rolling. By sonic adventure 2 the series direction had largely forgotten this important point and so the did the direction in terms of level design as a result, and the series has clearly been worse off for it. Sonic 2 - Either the second or third best classic sonic game in actuality. Levels were designed with speed focus in mind but enemy placement was kind of cheap in many areas. Middle section of the game relatively weak, while the first 4 levels and the last 2 are among the best in the series. Sonic Mania - Probably the third best "classic sonic" title. The wide screen format makes the levels easier to handle than the original games. The original levels are actually phenomenally designed, but some of the remixed levels I felt a bit underwhelmed with. In particular the sonic 3 levels were among the weakest in the game in terms of innovation. The replay value here is also not as strong as with sonic 3. There is little reason to actually play as anyone other than sonic because the levels are practically identical except for in a few knuckles siutations. The level transitions and story also aren't as strong. Still a 9/10 game though easily. Least Favorite: Sonic CD - the irony of this game is that its design is actually better suited to a 3D title than a 2D one. A great 3D sonic title could learn a lot of lessons about how to maximize space in an open environment created for sonic. It did not work as well for 2D because the gameplay did not flow as well with the constant backtracking and verticality....sonic 3 for comparison sake also had lots of verticality but was more focused on the goal as an "A to B" 2D platformer more linear by nature since you're focused on getting to the goal rather than level objectives. The object placement within the levels also was a bit scatterbrained at many points, definitely less focused than sonic 2 or 3. The weakest of the classics in 2D level design, although the JP soundtrack is one of the very best in the series and the art direction was quite literally brilliant, vibrating with an abstract, surreal energy and color in a uniquely sonic-y way that I wish the series would become familiar with again.
  24. Sonic Team doesnt have a habit of rushing things. SOJ had a habit of rushing Sonic Team. Key difference.
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