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does it really matter

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  1. With all due respect, I think you are entirely missing my point and your arguments are going around in circles. I am not saying that a Sonic Forces DLC is not gonna happen, just that any evidence poised at this point is not substantial at all in my opnion. Isn't Sonic Mania the first Sonic game for current gen consoles? It came before Forces and was released for Switch, Xbox One, and PS4, so I don't understand your point. Aside from that point, I don't understand how current gen hardware is any evidence. I'm not overlooking anything; I'm simply looking at aspects that could be used as concrete evidence to suggest a Sonic Forces DLC and I see none. Again, these arguments you're bringing up seem more like of an excuse than a compelling argument. Why are people saying it's been pretty much confirmed? It hasn't. They have already released quite a bit of DLC for Forces (Shadow, Super Sonic, T-Shirts) at the upfront and when it was already largely created. However, like most companies, Sega will want to follow the money and positive reception. This brings us to Sonic Mania and Plus. You keep on saying Sonic Mania Plus was revealed out of nowhere. I still don't see how this changes my previous argument. Sonic Mania is a very unique circumstance for Sega. It's the most critically reviewed Sonic game in 15 years and some called it one of the best games of 2017. A Sonic game being called a game of the year contender. That's huge and I feel that is being understated in these discussions. Sega has said over and over again Plus was made because of fan feedback and the reception of the game. It was revealed three months ago. Plenty of time to market it and now Sega has a new racing game coming out in a few months that is building upon the positive reception of the previous one and not a word on the Forces DLC. The best piece of evidence, which also started the whole discussion, is that Steam slot. Again, that is not a unique occurrence to Forces and has been listed for months, like many other games from years ago. I want to make it clear; my argument isn't that a Sonic Forces DLC is not gonna happen, and it very well could (simply because I never want to say never), my argument is that I see no substantial evidence to strongly suggest it. You can make mention of how Aaron might be lying and current gen hardware. None of it is evidence. Sonic Forces paled in comparison to Sonic Mania, as did many other titles over the last decade and longer, so yes Sonic Mania is handled in a much different light because it is critically acclaimed, the fans loved it, and wanted more and they got it.
  2. Okay, but it was not nearly as long as a timeframe. It was five months. It's going to be a year for Forces in a few months, we've heard nothing about it aside from speculation, and Sega has multiple other projects that are giving them far more positive feedback. Feedback that they have not seen in over a decade. You are free to believe that there will be DLC and perhaps there will be. I just have yet to see one piece of convincing evidence and the rest seems like coming up with any excuse to justify people saying it's "fact". That DLC slot in Steam is not unique to Forces. Many, many games on Steam have such DLC slots that were never described and nothing came of them. Oh, and all were updated the same day as Forces' and these games are even older. I described one in a previous post.
  3. Yeah, but it was the most well received Sonic game in fifteen years. Sega has said repeatedly they did Sonic Mania Plus because of the critical reception.
  4. Oh, I actually know about the entire backstory. The story itself is actually pretty decent, right down to the details on how Shadow even got his name. The problem sometimes isn't always with the story itself, as it is with the story-telling. So many details, like Maria's condition, were left out completely of the actual SA2 game and were instead put within other source material and games. Had they provided such details in the game, I feel the story would've been much better for it. Even Sonic Forces makes a bit more sense when reading the comics (which reveals how Wisps were even in the game); it's just unfortunate it takes more talented writers to fill in the gaps for players instead of the actual game writers. For me, Sonic games are about how you fill in the gaps yourself, with the help of other material and your own imagination. More well written stories do that for you, but Sonic games were never really about that, so I can't fault them too much. For instance. I was originally under the impression that the "Phantom Ruby" in Sonic Mania was not the original, but one of the many prototypes that modern Eggman created, which he then sent to Classic Sonic's dimension as a result of an experiment. I even thought it was his attempt to conquer other dimensions by indirectly aiding his counterpart. It made more sense to me seeing as Classic Sonic showed up six months after Eggman conquered the world, while the Phantom Ruby was found by Modern Eggman well before he even began his conquest. Same thing with the "Super Emeralds", I prefer to believe that they are the current Chaos Emeralds, powered by the energies of the Master Emerald after Sonic and Tails collected them in Sonic 1 and 2, instead of them just disappearing like Iizuka claims. It may not be canon, but I really couldn't care less about canon at this point. It helps me enjoy the story more because the writers do not care as much, which is a damn shame.
  5. Again, I could agree that Aaron truly doesn't know and the DLC could perhaps be true. My point is it could go either way at this point and even if there is DLC, it could be something very minor. I have a wait and see attitude. When others say "fact" or "confirmation", that's simply not true yet. I understand that this all started with "Stream DB Unknown App" on the Sonic Forces steam page, but quite a few games have that as well that never materialized, such as 2015's Grand Theft Auto V and they all updated the same day (June 20th). Here is the link: https://steamdb.info/app/271590/dlc/. There are many, many more and, again, all updated the same day. It also seems this has been up for the Sonic Forces page for quite sometime and didn't just pop up recently (only noticed), so it very well may have been such a minor update that it didn't warrant a description, as plenty of other games release such updates in the same fashion. Here's my scenario: This update has been on the Sonic Forces page for months, largely unnoticed. Someone on this forum notices and posts about it. Not long after (one day), Youtube videos start popping up and hype catches on. The Sonic Mania Plus ending leaks and suddenly people see it as a "confirmation", largely because they feel that Steam DB can't be a coincidence. I think it was a perfect storm of a non-descriptive, minor update being noticed at the same time as Sonic Mania Plus and now, we have all this news of something that very well might not happen. Again, it could happen, but I just find all the evidence is very flimsy. That's all I have to say on this topic. Let's see what happens.
  6. I'm not saying a DLC won't come out, because you never know, but I just find it unnecessary and simply do not see enough evidence beyond others hyping it up. It could go one way or another, but people are already using terms like "confirmed", which is not true at all at this point. I really hope there is no DLC, but we'll see soon one way or another.
  7. No offense, but that means nothing to me. Aaron is one of Sega's best and most essential employees, especially when spreading news and pumping the crowd up. With all the crap he has to deal with, I hope they treat him well. Cutting him out of the loop would be a truly terrible decision.....so hey perhaps it is true then. Oh, as for the concept of him lying: why bother addressing the question at all then? It's not like a live interview. On a stream, he can pick and choose the questions to answer and, to the best of my knowledge, lying is not how Aaron operates. Again, it's why people like the guy so much and why he's one of the best Sega has.
  8. Honestly, after seeing what Aaron said on the stream, that was the last nail in the coffin for me on the DLC. While Aaron said "to the best of his knowledge", he has been pretty much in the know about everything with these games recently. Eggman's ending was essentially what I view as the character's karma. It was very satisfying to see him get his just desserts in such an ironic fashion, especially after it seemed as though he was going to escape. I would hate for Forces to mess with that and remind players why it is such a disappointment, especially when compared to Sonic Mania. It makes no sense given its reception to bring the game back from the dead, especially when Aaron himself does not believe any further DLC will release. Eggman is trapped in some void, Sonic and friends are celebrating, and Forces is left as it is: an unpolished game that had heaps of potential, but was wasted on half developed ideas and resources and pales in comparison to Sonic Mania and now Sonic Mania Plus. Again, I actually enjoyed Sonic Forces, but it was a lazy and unpolished game that tried to piggyback off the success of Mania with a storyline connection.
  9. You know, I do have to agree with you there. I very much enjoyed the story of SA1. There are still plenty of areas that could be taken apart though. I just feel that Sonic stories aren't necessarily meant to be put under a microscope because I don't think it's ever meant to be taken too seriously. People will still find enjoyment in them.
  10. To be fair, I feel Sonic games will always have gapping plot-holes. SA2 was probably the worst offender in my opinion. Why is the ultimate lifeform a hedgehog? How was Gerald's execution tape made part of the Ark collision program (who put it there to begin with)? Shadow knew of a government spy known as "Rouge the Bat", but didn't believe it was her until he overheard her trying to steal the Chaos Emeralds? How did Amy get to Prison Island and obtain a keycard? Even what happened to Maria is not clear at all aside that she died. There was also a wealth of information about the game's backstory not found in the game, but in other materials, which again does not make for good story-telling. I know this isn't a thread to discuss SA2, but I am merely just using that game as an example for how most Sonic games have very poorly written stories. Does Sonic Forces have a great story? No, but what Sonic game truly has an objectively well-written story? None in my opinion. They all have gaping plot-holes when you break them down, some more than others. This is one of the many reasons why so many are drawn to the 2D games, which may be light on story, but at least have some fun animations to tell us what's going on and leave the crux of the enjoyment to the gameplay.
  11. Some fans are speculating that Eggman being sucked into the void is a tease towards a potential Sonic Forces DLC with classic Eggman as a villain. I really hope this is not the case. While I enjoyed Sonic Forces, it was a pretty unremarkable game that got extremely mixed reviews. Sega is back on an extreme high note with critical acclaim for Sonic Mania Plus and Sonic Mania Adventures. I wouldn't understand why they would risk further negative reception for a game that should really be left alone at this point. The problem is Sega makes very odd and bad decisions over and over again. So, them returning to Sonic Forces to remind players how mediocre or just plain bad the game was just when the reception for the Sonic Series is back in great shape is unfortunately very plausible. I also feel that the good ending is actually pretty conclusive. When I saw the good ending, my impression was the Phantom Ruby became extremely unstable because of Eggman's overuse of it and went haywire as a result. Eggman and his entire fortress are absorbed and trapped in some nameless void (until he finds a way to escape for the next classic game) and this is most likely what happened to modern Eggman as well, since the final battle took place in a void-like area. Sonic and his friends go to celebrate, while the Hard Boil Heavies are no longer evil without the Phantom Ruby's influence, though they still have a bit of personality. I find it a very fitting ending: Eggman gets trapped by the very power he was abusing throughout the games and Sonic and friends finally get some time to relax.
  12. I like both endings in that stream, though it's obvious that the first was meant to entice players to collect all the emeralds again. It raises a lot of questions, but honestly, the fact that we have a 2D Sonic game that does that is very good in my opinion. It's a story that I care enough about to want to know more. I feel that there are multiple directions they can take with this series now. That ending with Eggman almost escaping was very satisfying for me, as well. They were like "Nope, not this time lol" and I liked that we received a better visual of Eggman getting his just desserts instead of the typical explosion and flying offscreen. Either the developers were just indulging in the mindless fun of Encore mode or they are trying to hint at what's to come for this series. As much as many fans hate the fact that Mania might be contained within its own dimension, I think this provides Whitehead with the perfect excuse to go as crazy as he wants without Sega and diehard fans breathing down his neck about the modern Sonic "canon", which is already all over the place. Who knows, maby we can have some games made by Christian that feature Chaos, Shadow, or better yet, some new crazier enemy. The Hard-Boiled Heavies are already a welcome edition to Sonic's gallery of villains and I would love to see more simple 2D villains that still have a lot of personality conveyed through simple animation and boss battles. Whatever the case, I'm very satisfied that it was not a carbon copy of the original ending and even provided some incentive to think of what might be next. Sega has made some very bad decisions in the past (that's an extreme understatement), but I don't think they can possibly even consider the possibility that they are done with Christian Whitehead and his team. They may have just saved this franchise in the past year alone.
  13. Sonic loves to run, never stay in one place for too long, and see new sights and meet new people with his friends. Being confined to a cell, unable to run, cut off from his friends, only surrounded by enemies, and forced to watch Eggman destroy the world he spent most of his life defending is very much torture. So I think that line fits without being what people automatically imagine. There is absolutely no indication of any type of physical torture being done to Sonic in the game.
  14. He has some lines I believe on the world map. It also sounds like a big chunk of the backstory, including Infinite's true origins, are tied to his DLC, so I guess most of his lines and actions were reserved for the DLC.
  15. I think the description in the Shadow DLC says the origins of Infinite will be revealed in that DLC. If that happens to be true, it's still weird none of it was revealed in the main story.
  16. I'm really loving Eggman's portrayal. Reminds me of Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.
  17. One level depicts classic Sonic going through the city as Eggman's forces continue their attacks after modern Sonic is captured. A black screen says 'A couple of months ago in the city' and depicts Infinite wiping out the remaining survivors.
  18. It looks like the story is being told from multiple points of view from different periods of time, like in Sonic Adventure. So while there is a lame black screen that mentions taking over the world, playing as classic Sonic while modern Sonic was imprisoned shows more of the world being destroyed and conquered by Infinite and Eggman.
  19. True enough, but even the circumstances of this game are much more grand. Having most the villains and heroes back in one game, the main villain of the series actually succeeding (at least 99% of the way) and the grim premise, is something none of the other games did. I agree with you that something will probably happen at the end to make it 'business as usual', but I can't help but at least hope the ending will be something out of left field. Yup, I would love some form of justice for Eggman, instead of him just escaping again, even if it's only temporary. That's really what I'm contemplating. Will this game end like a typical Sonic game or, given the premise, will it have a bit more flavor to it. I think it will not do anything that would raise an eyebrow, but was curious about others' thoughts.
  20. Lol, yeah I would love the ending to really be anything goes. Eggman finally getting his just desserts, heroes dying, and the whole series being turned upside down. But for whatever reason, Sega wants to keep up with a continuity that has really overstayed its welcome. Some might say they tried with 'Sonic Boom', but it wasn't handled well in the games at all in my opinion. There's so many Sonic games at this point, I wouldn't mind this game having a true, conclusive finale. They can make as many games as they want, but they don't always have to be set in the same canon.
  21. Okay, so regardless of gameplay or how the reviews for this game will turn out, how would you like this game to end from a story perspective? Given the achievements, it's really no secret (if it was one to begin with) that the world will return to peace at the end, but how would you like the fate of characters to be handled, especially Eggman? From one side, I love that they seem to be treating him as a legitimate threat again, but on the other hand, I can't help but think they might pull off a cheap trick, like it's actually Eggman from another dimension. They might also do something like Sonic Adventure 2 where, though Eggman was a truly evil villain, he was let go because he did something at the last minute to save his own skin, which also happened to coincide with saving the world. Anyway, how do you believe certain characters will end up at the end, including the avatar, Infinite, Eggman, Shadow, ect.? Will this game actually be an ending to the series we know up till this point and then rebooted? Several people here did say this game has all the bearings of a finale, so I certainly wouldn't mind that.
  22. It seems like they really want to make this game seem bigger than it actually is. Don't get me wrong, I love Sonic and am really hoping this game is at least decent, but I feel like this game is really being blown up to being a much more massive game, while most players will probably finish it in one sitting, easily. Someone on these forums (have no clue who or what thread at this point) said that the story has all the bearings of being a grand finale. While I would love this game to actually have some form of a conclusion to one Sonic canon, with Eggman being locked up or getting some form of justice, I feel like the ending will revert to the same goofy, "Oh, I hope Eggman learned his lesson this time. Destroying entire cities and endangering an entire planet is a big no no". I really want to be proven wrong. But this type of marketing, to me, is truly indicative of how disconnected Sega is from their core audience. Just make a good game with a decent story that does justice to these characters. Don't worry so much about making cheap gimmicks to evolve the series or use this type of marketing to make it seem like a massive, triple A game when it really isn't. I want a Sonic game where I can care about the story and characters again, without it taking itself too seriously, while of course enjoying the hell out of the gameplay.
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