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About -Justin-

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    Unknown from M.E.M.E.
  • Birthday 03/09/1999

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    Sonic, Kingdom Hearts, Super Mario, Sly Cooper, and more. Memes... memes.
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    United States

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  1. I really hope we get more Sonic games with serious stories in the future. Forces really brought me back to the first time I played Sonic Adventure DX And 2: Battle.

    1. Show previous comments  20 more
    2. -Justin-


      @KHCast To me, Eggman feels like his Adventure self. And, I still don’t see how Tails is a coward tbh.

    3. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      Also does SLW just not exist anymore? Because that was serious as well. An Ernest attempt, even.


      Also, Forces doesn't come off as written by a teenager, a teen can write better than that. It's worse than that: it comes off as corporate pandering and a focus-group tested direction, first and foremost. They couldn't care less about the story.

    4. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Charming, likable bosses like the Hard-Boiled Heavies are a little above a toddler's paygrade.

      Infinite seems a bit closer to a child's idea of a good original character. Which makes sense, I guess, as the game was marketed to appeal to very young children first and foremost. At the end of the day, older fans are very much a periphery demographic, not the primary one they were aiming for.

      So I guess the joke's on me for analyzing and dissecting this story as much as I have.

    5. -Justin-


      @The Deleter I know for sure SLW exists, it’s one of my favorite Sonic games. Yeah, the story was serious, but Forces just feels better to me I guess.

    6. Dee Dude

      Dee Dude

      @KHCast I'm not belittling anyone,

      I'm aware of his criticisms, it's just the same complaints were gonna be said and I had to let him know.

    7. Rusty Spy

      Rusty Spy

      Forces is not a serious story. It is as serious in tone as Colors with how nothing that happens in the story has any impact or consequence that gives the plot any emotional weight.

      Eggman takes over the world and the only difference is that a couple buildings are on fire

      We are TOLD that Sonic had be tortured for months, but they might as well have told us he was watching Family Matters for all the difference it actually made

      Classic Sonic is shoehorned into the plot and given nothing to do, and no one bats an eye at his presence.

      Sonic and Buddy get sucked into a inescapable void, and nonchalantly walk right out faster than you can say pointless diversion.

      Literally everything about Infinites "backstory"

      It presents these important events and gives me no reason to take any of it seriously.

    8. KHCast


      Looks to me like he actual gave reasons outside "Infinite is bad" and you're "dont get him started :U" comment just made you sound overally unfair to what he had to say 

      Looks to me like he actual gave reasons outside "Infinite is bad" and you're "dont get him started :U" comment just made you sound overally unfair to what he had to say 

    9. Dee Dude

      Dee Dude

      Ok, I didn't mean to sound rude, my apologies.

      I was joking how he was gonna repeat the same thing hence the :U.

      But it was a bad joke so my bad.

    10. Wraith


      The heavies and infinite are on the same level of style over substance unless you really have a preference for one kind of style over the other.

      It's fitting because they're both made by the phantom ruby which is "we can make whatever we want happen so we can put some cool characters in"

    11. Mad Convoy

      Mad Convoy

      Honestly, I think there is merit to balance. Classic games had it-- not every level was all nice and hospitable like Green Hill Zone after all. Death Egg and Scrap Brain Zone were still a thing, and don't even get me started on some of the horror in Spinball and Sonic CD's US soundtrack (as well as what was going on with Knuckles, the first anti-villain of the series). And they had some issues too-- characters in adaptations would frequently act like roboticization is a fate worse than death, but then emerge from it like it was nothing (in the case of the Flickies/Pickies/etc. in the games) and reference it casually like a stroll in the park. The only exceptions, ironically enough given how they tend to be viewed as the weaker of the Classic era, were Sonic Underground and Sonic CD, the former because the mind control aspect of roboticization could only temporarily be suppressed (leading to intense guilt when off the mind control) and the latter because all the Badniks were plant-powered.

      And keep in mind that this is from somebody who isn't a fan of the Classics. So before you say "well it was a problem then too," let me tell you that I totally get what you're saying. But yet, people still like the narratives of the Classics, particularly Sonic 3. Classic Sonic is extremely popular, and Mania is pretty much a clone of it with much of the same principles. A balanced Sonic story/narrative is not only possible, but has happened quite a few times successfully and has been implemented games like Mania that are widely liked.

      Of course, if you'd rather have a really light or dark take on Sonic, fine. That's your viewpoint. But acting like you have to pick between the two and so does everybody else for the good of the true hedgehog way is ridiculous. And wanting bits of both isn't trying to have your cake and eat it too. No, your viewpoint on the story doesn't affect if its serious or not. I've been told by people, when pointing out that Rise of Lyric is a recent example as an example of a plot that was excessively serious to the point of being boring, that I can't call Rise of Lyric's story serious at all because it has crappy jokes about bounce pads and is Sonic Boom (I'd suspect an accidental conflation with the TV show, but these people stick to this notion long after they've been presented evidence to the contrary). Comparably, Forces was trying to be more serious than Lost World by raising the stakes (letting Eggman conquer the world for example). But its story wasn't very good. That doesn't mean that people can't point out concepts they like and wish were tried again in the future, nor does it having bad jokes somehow make it berift of any seriousness.

    12. Rusty Spy

      Rusty Spy


      Mania didn't try to pretend the Heavies were anything more than quirky bosses for Sonic to fight.

    13. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      Roboticization wasn't a thing in the games though. Eggman stuffed animals into robots to use as power sources, and all it took was a quick bop and they'd be free again.

      I mean, being captured and used as a living battery is still pretty bad, but it's not the same thing as being physically turned into a mindless drone yourself, as the cartoons and comics inaccurately portrayed it. So I don't see that as an example of "the classic era." If anything, I feel like SatAM/Archie were overly melodramatic and tonally dissonant (especially during Penders' reign of the series) compared to the games.

      (I did like Archie when Ian came onboard though.)

    14. Bobnik


      mfw I didn't actually expect a good story and just expected entertaining story after all the borefests that came after Unleashed.

      mfw it succeeded. With some disappointments, but at least I was engaged more than whatever the hell the stories were since Unleashed.

    15. Wraith


      @Rusty Spy

      That doesn't suddenly make them better characters

      They serve their purpose within the game by being better bosses, I guess.

    16. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano


      I mean. The Heavies and Infinite are both hilarious, but only the former were supposed to be.

      So in that regard, I think the Heavies did a better job of being the kind of characters they were designed to be. Infinite was marketed as the next "edgy badass cool guy" of the series, and he comes across as a whiny loser.

    17. KHCast


      I'm not exactly sure what they could have done to make them better within the limitations of the game to make them more worthwhile characters. They're just as engaging as Eggman was in the classics.

    18. DiamondX


      I don't see how the Heavies can be charming. They dont even have a personality. They are just Egg Robo recolors with weapons.

      I'd actuakly say there are robot versions of the Deadly Six.

    19. Dr. Mechano

      Dr. Mechano

      @Infinite ∞

      They're playful and theatrical.

      We see them make expressive gestures and motions in-game, and their manual profiles even talk about who they are and what they enjoy doing. Heavy Rider even named her Motobug. C'mon, that's adorable.

    20. DiamondX


      I shouldn't have to read a manual to know stuff about the characters. That should be in the game.

    21. Wraith


      That's fair enough, but I think it's weird how often people compare the two when they're the same kind of grasp at nostalgia for me. 

      I prefer the heavies, but I think I just prefer that aesthetic. I actually think Infinite's design is cool.

      They're both kind of not much beyond that, but I guess Forces promised more.

    22. Mad Convoy

      Mad Convoy

      @Super Mechanio You are right. But I think my point still stands that its a bad process to go through. If Sonic Adventure is any indication, though it might not be for Classic stuff or the less intelligent robots, any captured animals pretty much have all their memories wiped of who they were as an organic animal and assume the identity of the robot body, completely unaware of who they once were, until freed. Which is disturbing. The best outcome I can think of is that the Flickie gets knocked out for the energy extraction process, but even then it should be bewildering if you, say, were running away from some robots a second ago only to suddenly wake up (possibly in a completely different zone, the sky, a space station, or in the center of a battle) surrounded by a broken machine that you're standing in with no explanation as to what happened to you, only knowing that whatever it was, it was bad. And yet, the Flickies just happily bounce along whenever you free them, no sign of being worse for wear. Maybe I'm spoiled by Kirby games (which tend to have understandable reactions to this sort of thing, or at least a "Thanks for freeing me, I can help you now with something new!"), maybe the ambiguity allows for different interpretations, but it strikes me as pretty horrific.

      And I'm aware the cartoons and comics had different takes. But they are still a part of the Classic era of the 1990s, for better or for worse, and so I consider them Classic stuff.

    23. Dee Dude

      Dee Dude

      To be fair, the Heavies actually do show off some personality in the game, not reading the manual is kind of a poor excuse.

      While I still dig Infinite a bit, he came across as rather bland and they played his edginess straight instead of doing something interesting with it, and his movitation was badly executed.

    24. Rusty Spy

      Rusty Spy

      The point is, Infinite is written to have a some deep backstory and character that we're supposed to take seriously, and it's completely hollow.

      Infinite is supposed to have substance and it's not there. The Heavies are just there for style, and they at least succeed at having that.

    25. KHCast


      @Infinite ∞ So reading a comic to understand Infinite and "like" him better is fine, reading a manual to understand the lore for Mania and the heavies is not?

    26. DiamondX


      I never mentioned the comic being good at all.

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