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About dbzfan7

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  1. Discussing the Deadly Six on my birthday. Man I hope the latter half at least is better than talking about them haha.

  2. Look I'm just gonna agree to disagree at this point haha. The biggest pain is spending my brain power on these characters at all. I'd rather not even butt heads on them period. That was a fun talk 👍
  3. You do have to though as what I said can't work at this point as we've established what they are etc. What I put down was mere hindsight of how they should have been from the beginning. They can't become what I said because that's not what they are. That's what I'm trying to say. Their roots are garbage so building on their roots with depth won't help. For example you can say Zomom eats a bunch cause his mom doesn't love him.....it's implied in Lost World but I don't care he still acts boring and uninteresting so knowing his reason does jack shit.
  4. That's the point. I didn't change shit at the surface level but at the very least made them mildly entertaining. Even then still wouldn't even consider them good. Just at least have something. They're still shallow uninteresting characters as I wrote them, but at least there is some fun there so they don't completely charisma suck away all entertainment. I barely added to their layers but rather switched the context for their actions. I used context to make something out of them. I did nothing with their overall characters and instead reconstituted the entire dynamic. That is what would have to change bare minimum and from the arcs in IDW and Archie I've seen them in that really isn't the case with their direction. Giving a backstory or whatever on their current ways of acting and behavior is like putting a ton of Band-Aids on a leaking jug of sewage water. I can stop it from leaking but man it still tastes like shit. You're looking more at how to flesh them out as in depth characters while I'm saying it's pointless if they're not at the very least fun or quirky to make their shallowness has some value to it. Re-contextuallizing their shallowness is what I did. Just randomly throwing what I said and applying it to them wouldn't work as that's not how they are nor hint at acting. I wrote my own shallow 2D characters of what could at the very least work to not make them feel like a total waste of time. Context really is something.
  5. For surface value characters that the Deadly Six were clearly made to be, how they talk and how they act is most important. They were never created to be deep characters and that is fine. For the six I personally would have it that they suck real bad at being villains and aren't threats unless they take things very seriously. That underlying theme alone can explain away why characters with such shallow personalities. A quick glance of ideas that doesn't really make them less shallow but at least entertaining. That would also mean Eggman doesn't have to suffer fill that kind of role he at times is made to fill. Zavok should have an extremely hard time getting the six to actually focus. Only the old guy is really on the same page as him. The others just want to do whatever the hell they feel like. This is why their personalities are so wild and unfocused and shallow. As well as why they don't seem like good villains. They are all single note on the desire they care about. We get a little of this in the game with him having to "trick" Zeena but it's done in the typical way. The reason they become threats should be because Sonic unites them either through intentional or unintentional means depending on who. He either says or does something to make them want to work together to destroy him. Zazz who actually likes to fight and hurt people should be overexcited to fight Sonic just as he was in the game, but he goes over ecstatic and tries the most complex ridiculous things to pound Sonic instead of just being simple. Be a like 6 step thinker to a 2 step problem kinda guy. Have him want to beat Sonic but be focused on making it brutal and cool and in a big way. And that fault is what makes him lose because of his personality flaw. Zeena/Zomom are two that really would have 0 interest in Sonic and be against Zavok. One is the rebellious teenager girl who doesn't want to listen to some big red guy tell her what to do, and the other just wants to eat stuff and working hard just makes him hungrier which is no fun. They're harmless til we have Sonic do or say something that may piss them off. Like accidentally ruining Zomoms meal and insulting Zeena was in the game. Zomom can be the character who just wants to eat but bad luck screws him over and he ends up mad. Zeena could maybe think Sonic is cool til he says one thing he that is taken completely wrong no matter if he tries to put things delicately. Zorr just doesn't care about anything. He just wants to be left alone but Zavok forces him to be evil. He's pure emo and cares of nothing of life in the game but is utterly forced to do what he does or he won't be left alone. He'd be the sympathetic to people who just hate situations being forced on them. Not really deep but it's relatable in a sense. That's just coming up with stuff off the top of my head. Keeping things shallow and 2 dimensional but at least making things a little quirkier. Them being traditional villains was the wrong way to go about it. They should be I think a dysfunctional family that is only trouble when they actually work together, but somewhat sympathetic or humorous with all the trouble it takes just to make them become deadly. At least their one note traits can become quirky and somewhat entertaining. THEN and ONLY THEN should we consider adding depth as I said before "No amount of depth matters if a character can't do the one thing they're meant to in this media and be entertaining"
  6. No that is the reason for them being shallow, but that is not the core of the problem. Being shallow is fine, especially in a series with this demographic. The classic Sonic characters aren't exactly deep in anyway but they had something to at least make them entertaining. It's the fact they are not entertaining in the least that ruins the six. You can give them the most interesting and crazy backstory you want, you can have reasons for their personalities. But none of that matters if at the end of the day the way they present themselves is boring and uninteresting. At that point you've already lost with the characters. The surface value is the problem more than anything else. If they're not the least bit entertaining then why should anyone care about wanting to learn anything else about them? Before any of that can even happen they need to actually BE entertaining. True as I said simplistic and shallow aren't an issue if at the very bare minimum you're entertaining. A simple potato chip can still be good, while a complexly made one with several factors going into it's conception and flavouring can still be utter shit if it tastes like shit. First off make them at least fun to see on the surface level, then worry about the undertones.
  7. Anything can sound interesting and good if you remove context from it. It's a shame they made characters with that idea so poor an uninteresting. The premise is utterly destroyed by the characters it's given to. Call it whatever you want, I still stand by what I said. No you didn't you just told me what you think would work. I don't think what you said would work as at the end of the day if they can't entertain, then adding layers won't even save them. Them being shallow is only part of why they suck. That they aren't the least bit entertaining is what cripples them more than anything else. You can have a shallow entertaining character and a boring shit fully layered character.
  8. More background wouldn't really change much since how they act IS the problem more than anything else. It would be nice sure but how they act is the problem. They are boring and uninteresting. They could continue to have no background or interesting motivation and that wouldn't be the end all be all of what royally screws them over. It's how they talk and act which ruins them. They both say and do nothing interesting. That more than anything ruins them. A one note character can even be fine if they are at least entertaining. They can't even be fun as one note characters. I honestly think you've have to make them completely new to make them any good from 0 potential. But that's how I feel. I believe you'd have to tone down their one trait severely or somehow at least make that one trait either endearing or entertaining. The closest I ever gave a crap was when Zomom said "Mom was right I am a failure". Probably the one time I at least laughed but mostly cause he was a terrible character. So maybe the solution is they admit they are shit characters XP
  9. True but instead of using extra building blocks for the deadly six they just stopped at the beginning lol
  10. That's more your own opinion than anything as you changed your mind. That doesn't mean everyone changed their mind. I'm sure some people have and others like me have not. I say they have zero potential because they are based completely on character tropes rather than being actual characters. You'd have to change them into entirely different characters from what they are to be any good which is funny as then they're not really the same character. Though to be fair that's what they have been doing with the main cast for years so perhaps looking at it from that angle you are right.
  11. Just give me Starline as the villain...hell I'd take the Skunk Bros as the villains....why do we have to keep coming back to the Deadly Shits. I do not understand the fascination of using these guys so much. Mining 0 potential is still 0.
  12. Morgana and Sakurai hugged and that's how he got in the banner and Jokers Taunt. But also
  13. I mean I like Dante and Devil May Cry and would totally be hyped if he got in, but I just find it a bit hypocritical is all this sort of complaint when I feel the genuine complaint more so boils down to it not being who is wanted. Dante is primarily a sword fighter. He has other weapons but by the end of the day it's primarily sword with some gun focus. Not to mention the choices are likely between multiple styles or weapons and I think mixing between SWORDTRICKGUNROYALGUARD!!! would be the better choice.
  14. Is it tired of sword users or is it tired of it not being Dante/Sora/Lloyd/Ryu the specific sword users. I wouldn't say that's for everyone of course, but I do feel the sword complaint would drop by a lot if it's certain sword users rather than an unwanted sword user.
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