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Sonic Fan J

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Sonic Fan J last won the day on December 10

Sonic Fan J had the most liked content!

About Sonic Fan J

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    Sonic and anime. Going to attempt to get into the IDW comics.
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  1. Sonic Fan J

    What are some missed opportunities in the Sonic franchise?

    Amy's one of my favorites but considering trends with Amy that would follow it's hard to say she wouldn't of. At least with Old Man Owl he had the excuses of bad vision, senility, and being a very daft comic relief. Amy doesn't have those excuses, especially when it's implied that she pretty much has Sonic radar and her if her crush is anywhere near as obsessive as it has been made out to be under no circumstances should she ever mistake anyone for Sonic. All of that said though, your thoughts on Amy being a liaison between Sonic and more civilized places makes me think she'd make a fun telegraph messenger due to her love of adventure and meeting new people, even if it's a role considered for boys which shouldn't be a problem with an energetic tomboy like her.
  2. I've always wondered why not go with the Bill Hatcher designs since they follow the same design philosophy as Eggman. It was brought up in this thread a few pages before the poster reveal from a tweet of someone who claimed to have seen the teaser trailer screening that it was pretty much what Sonic looked like in the screening. As for it's origins the website on the picture belongs to the artist and you can find the story behind it there as well. I can't speak for anyone else, but the design is just one of many complaints I have about the movie. Nothing they've advertised or said to think about has been Sonic as I know him in any capacity and that is worrying. Then those who defend it like yourself also tell me to discard everything I know Sonic to be implying that Sonic can't sell a movie as he is. While that is probably true, it also goes to show that Paramount should have never went after the license. If Sonic can't sell a Hollywood movie then he shouldn't be put in one. That's just plain common sense. If you have to change everything, then why use Sonic in the first place? Don't tell me bran recognition because Sonic is already recognized as a joke if you aren't already a fan and the movie isn't being representative of what the franchise is by discarding everything because it doesn't work. If you want to call it Hollywood's take that's fine, but this is easily one of the loosest adaptions I've seen in a while and they have yet to sell me on it when they tell me not to think of the franchise I love and their defenders tell me it can't work. If what I love can't work and shouldn't be thought about isn't that kind of enough proof that I should be concerned about this movie? I don't like it. I can't speak for anyone but it honestly looks lifeless and uncanny to me before even getting into the head placement problem this edit creates. Okay, now with my responses out of the way I would like to ask a question about why Sonic can't have his traditional design with realistic textures and minor tweaks when Mr. Mime here seems to have no problem with it. Sure Mr. Mime is not the main character but he's still a noodle limbed character in a live action adaption that had no qualms showing him off in their debut trailer with his noodle limbs intact. In fact, there are actually a number of striking similarities between Detective Pikachu and the Sonic movie. Both are live action adaptions of videogames that have lots of designs for living things that would not work within the laws of biology as we know them. Both are buddy cop movies. Both movies are aimed at the general family audience. Both movies are relying on brand recognition to generate buzz and interest. Yet it is with the differences that my question arises. One is being truthful to the source material to the point that in the trailer you even see nods to the various tournaments while the other constantly tells you the source material as is doesn't work. One has no problem sticking as close as possible to the original designs while the other tells that the traditional designs aren't realistic and can't work in a live action movie. One came out and showed everything it is trying to be proudly while the other hid itself away in shadows or out of sight as though it were afraid of what it was. One embraced its brand and fanbase while the other seemed to shun it. It's a terrifying difference in approach to me and shows a completely different mentality and belief in the brand they are making a movie out of. That the Detective Pikachu production and marketing crews are proud enough to show off their work so clearly including a noodle limb character in in a live action movie while the Sonic movie production and marketing team seem to avoid doing so and even tell fans not to think of the franchise itself but countless other franchises just looks bad in comparison. I can't be the only one who has noticed this or find it concerning in anyway. But I don't want to be presumptuous and would like everyone to share their thoughts. And maybe, if their is anyone up to the task, would like to hear someone explain why in two very similar movies it is okay to use noodle limbs and stay as accurate to the source material as possible but is not in the other. I mean, if noodle limbs and as source material accurate as possible doesn't work in live action then I would an explanation for Mr. Mime here please.
  3. Sonic Fan J

    Team Sonic Racing - Upcoming Sonic Racing Game

    Most of those are off camera and not officially released by the distributor, SEGA. As a result they can not be considered part of the official marketing campaign and as TSR has only had CGi trailers officially SEGA has not promoted eth gameplay as much as CTR. That is where @Rowl is having his problem is because SEGA is not showing off the game and seems to be actively hiding it whereas CTR has been shown off in great detail in a single trailer. So sure, you can find lot's of footage on YouTube, but distribution of that footage is not being handled by SEGA meaning that they are still not showing off the contents of the game themselves, unlike with CTR.
  4. You're 100% right, just because it is ridiculous doesn't mean it has to be realized in a ridiculous way. That said, adapting Sonic by discarding everything about him from his design and native completely free from constraints medium is itself realizing the vision in a rather ridiculous way. A cartoon hedgehog can hold a more serious tone as proven in series with games like Adventure 2 without a need to turn him into something he is not; a real world creature. He's not designed to fit in the real world and was not created with that intention. Market research or no, changing him in such a way is pretty ridiculous. Next there going to Bugs Bunny or heck, if we want to be ridiculous let's say they'll do a Puyo Puyo live action adaption where the titular slimes are all human shaped body builders who talk like Venom. It's total ridiculousness but if it's realized in a serious manner it can surely be taken seriously. True, though his proportions and design are significantly more abstract and whimsical. The turtles and Superman especially still use human proportions so when they are adapted using human proportions no one bats an eye. Even Rocket in the MCU is adapted primarily from making an actual racoon bipedal, which doesn't take a lot of effort since racoons will stand on their hind legs and Rocket's design is still primarily based on a real racoon. Sonic on the other hand is designed without human proportions at all so when he is adapted to have human proportions it is seen as strange and unusual. Sorry if I'm coming across in a passive-aggressive fashion here, but I'm primarily trying to make it obvious to see why people don't find your example convincing by using extremes to make it easier to see. You seem to have a hard time seeing the problem when it is described with calm logic so I figured perhaps an extreme example would make it easier to see. Giving a character who does not have human anatomy human anatomy as the basis for realistic just seems like a cheap cop and undermines the point to the character's design. Though, since noodle limbs are part of Sonic's design and you say they can't work in a live action setting I actually have a question for you. If I'm not misremembering you praised the Pokémon movie for it's realistic adaptions. As those are actually source material accurate, including the noodle limbs of Mr. Mime, I'm curious about your thoughts on it. Like Sonic, Mr. Mime is a fantastical creature and has noodle limbs as part of it's design that are being used in a live action adaption so I'm sure they must bother you. If not I'd like to hear what makes Mr. Mime different from Sonic and why it's fine for him to have noodle limbs and be source material accurate in a live action movie and not Sonic.
  5. Oh no worries there I get that, but as my post was mostly in response to the necessitation of having to make stuff up to make Sonic work it was a nice example to continue showing the flaws of approaching a noodle limbed cartoon character realistic and everything that has to be consider for it which would continue to take the character further and further away from what they are. Sorry for the confusion. I agree creatively, but you forget that this movie is about making money and that is based on market research not creativity. So as incoherent as it is someone read eth data and thought there was money to made with this approach regardless on what it was they were using to that end. Money talks, not art, unless it makes money.
  6. Which is itself one of the problems. Everything about Sonic is fantastical and whimsical and even this movie design has to be to make anything in the context of the character. Trying to make something at once realistic, fantastical, whimsical, and grounded is a counterproductive. The production team gave themselves a challenge and a half and it unfortunately is not going to end pretty. Even if the movie is a commercial success it is likely the handling of Sonic's design will be a black mark on the character designer's careers even if the technical side is brilliantly executed. And why. Because the casual viewer won't care one way or the other, but the detail oriented will not stop themselves from panning what is arguable an adaption of a character in only the most superficial of details. Their work won't be appreciated by their peers or the fans beyond the most technical side of things. Actually a runner's body should be lithe, not buff. Being buff would create more mass that is less flexible to move resulting in reduced top speeds and ability to sprint for longer distances. Sonic having a big head that is bigger than his body only works in cartoons. In a realistic scenario all creatures have heads smaller than their bodies, especially bipeds as it is important for maintaining balance and protecting the brain from being an easy target.
  7. Before the talk of anatomy gets to far out of hand I would like to ask which part of this or @Tornado's above post is based in realism to begin with to use as a basis for a live action design? Much as I know most of us here don't like it, frankly on the basis of it not being one of the above examples, if the intention is to make something that would exist through natural evolution (let's not go there please as we all no nothing about Sonic is natural except in his own universe where he does not stand out) then at no point should we have expected Sonic the Hedgehog. If anything, it's a shame on us for thinking otherwise. Sonic is not real and cannot be real. It's just not possible with the laws of reality as we know and perceive them. If anything, I'd like to know how the filmmakers intend to convince anyone that this is a realistic take of the above when it itself claims to be this It just doesn't add up no matter how you try to spin it. Honestly the lightning just annoys me 'cuase it feels like an unimaginative borrowing of the Flash's look. They say they spent all of this time trying to figure out how to represent Sonic's speed and they just end up copying the flash. It's cheap as anything to me and just plain annoying. If you want to see what the speed of sound looks like here's an example No lightning, no electricity, not even the ability without a high speed camera to actually see the moving object beyond the light of the rocket exhaust. The speed of sound is astounding and the representation in the Flash and what we are being hinted at for the movie is already unrealistic. The problem with the whole idea of make something inherently so fantastical that it can't exist or even be represented in the real world as realistic is a fool's errand. That the Paramount team is giving it a shot say's they don't understand that and as a result it is no surprise that their output is still something fantastical that can't actually exist in any capacity in the real world. That they call it Sonic the Hedgehog when it is neither Sonic the Hedgehog as he is designed nor taking any cues from a real world hedgehog despite supposedly being made realistic tells a story that @PeterPancake has tried to tell us again and again. No one involved cares about anything but the cash and will bastardize everything and anything to get it. The fans and creators both be damned because market research says this will make them money and create brand awareness even if it has almost nothing in common with the brand. That's all that's wanted with this movie is money and brand awareness, and from what I can tell it will probably succeed. His cheetah post is the example of sprinting mammals developing detailed and defined musculature with the pic of an actual sprinter showing how that looks in human anatomy, which makes sense both because SOnicis a hedgehog (read animal) and the movie iteration has him built like a human.
  8. Well that's some interesting information that I hadn't known about Iizuka, thanks for sharing that. That said though, my point of reference was indeed when he received the official title after Unleashed as I said above, and looking at how you felt about Iizuka then I can think of a certain birthday cake meme that would describe it well if I'm not misunderstanding it. Still that would be rude to put a meme in your mouth and would not advance my topic any. Still though, in a way your expectations appear potentially met if only because you had no good expectations for him and it seems he proved those expectations right. It's kind of sad in a way to me as I personally can't stand being right about things not working out well. No worries, you still managed to mostly get your points across without going into a hate spiel. And if I'm reading things correctly, I'd say your expectations were that if you kept an open mind he might surprise, which he didn't. Maybe it's just part of me being a fan of creators of a work as much as I am a fan of their work that skews my perspective so, but even then, this thread was less about putting blame on anyone, and more discussing our expectations for Iizuka's appointment to Head of Sonic Team in an official capacity and whether he or not he met them or not and why. As I said in the OP my expectations were perhaps born from false pretenses to begin with. As a result my expectations were perhaps unfair, but regardless they had a reason for existing and Iizuka failed to meet them. Was that his fault? That question I can't answer because what happens in SEGA and Sonic Team for how the franchise is addressed is only perceived by us through the end product. That doesn't change us having expectations though. To an extent it's almost like the US presidency; you have an elected official who spends a ton of time creating expectations to get elected and then fails to meet them either for having simply lied, being stopped by Congress or the Supreme Court, or some mixture of the two and other factors. The fault may not lie with Iizuka, but then again he could also have met someone's expectations. Just take @Tornado in this very thread. He expected Iizuka to be a bad fit and Iizuka has met those expectations regardless of the reasoning behind them.
  9. Well if I recall correctly, he officially received the title as Head of Sonic Team after Unleashed released with Colors being the first game made with him in that position. Before that was just being the director for certain games or even the head writer. But as for the actual position of head of Sonic Team I don't remember him being assigned to that until after Unleashed. My memory could be faulty or I was just misinformed so feel free to correct me.
  10. I doubt it's true, but I like to believe that when a new thread is started that the first half dozen or so views are just mods checking in to make sure it's an appropriate thread and that they don't need to take any action.

    1. -dan-

      -dan-

      You might get members who need time to think on how to reply, too.

    2. Sonic Fan J

      Sonic Fan J

      True, and I doubt the mods are really able to be that thorough. And of course with my topics they're usually written a little on the dense side so they definitely take time to unpack.

    3. Kiah

      Kiah

      We don’t really do that with topics right off the bat. Usually a report needs to come up. If one of us catches it before that happened it’s usually because we were reading the topic out of curiosity as we are members too!

    4. Sonic Fan J

      Sonic Fan J

      @Kiah you're ruining the illusion 🤣

      But no, I already figured. I just like to have a bit of fun with how slow some threads take to get going with eth illusion that everyone is waiting for the mods to leave the thread alone before jumping in 😄

    5. Kiah

      Kiah

      I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if that was actually the case for some members. I know it gets that way when things get heated and then a swarm of us pop up in a topic. Definitely a deterrent lol. 

  11. First and foremost, I would like to state that this is not a bash Takashi Iizuka thread and anyone who aims to derail the topic to that end is undermining the point of this topic. The point of this topic is to share what your expectations were when Takashi Iizuka was put in charge of Sonic Team and whether or not he met them. I know a lot of us had different expectations and reasons for them when Iizuka was put in charge after Unleashed came out, and I am curious if he met them or not and why, not to mention how you feel about them. Now, with that out of the way, with the Sonic movie finally giving us our first take of how they envisioned Sonic and due to how different it is from anything else that is considered official in any capacity, it got me thinking about what my expectations had been for Takashi Iizuka when he was promoted to head of Sonic Team. I remember reading about it in a magazine article (shame I can't remember the magazine for the life of me and I know I don't own it) and they highlighted his history with the franchise and he wanted the next game to focus on the iconic image of Sonic running. Those were all things that excited me, but what most stood out to me at the time, especially since I was still in my very anything western made sucked mentality (aw the joy of ignorance and uncalled for bigotry) was that he was going to unify the franchise into a single coherent image. I interpreted that to mean there would no longer be a narrative and creative divide between japan, the creators of Sonic, and the rest of the world. Finally, my love of Sonic as told from a Japanese perspective would be the single vision for the franchise going forward. To me it looked like a bright future that would be full of engaging stories (engaging not good - big difference), fun character moments and interactions, more playable characters than Unleashed offered, and a grand sense of adventure that only the Japanese had ever captured in my eyes. Then reality set in. Disappointment, is really the only thing I can say about what came after Takashi Iizuka was put in charge. Sonic went from being a laid back adventurer with an attitude problem to a jerkass comedian. Other playable characters did not return (except in BOOM! but I'll get to that) and there was no sense of adventure. Suddenly the western takes, especially the comics written by Ian Flynn, were more truthful to what I loved Sonic for and in a strange way it was Ken Penders and not Takashi Iizuka who was responsible for the Archie comics becoming more like the games. This was especially troublesome going forward as Sonic in his Naoto Oshima design and his Yuji Uekawa design would eventually become separate entities, and you also got the BOOM! sub-franchise, and now the movie. Somehow, the unification to a singular image was not only a forgotten comment in some magazine article, but even the Japanese interpretation of him was being fractured. It was utter madness that was only further compounded by a lack of quality or what even seemed like common sense decisions. Sure there were a few good decisions, like making an entire game out of some bonus level ideas for a compilation that eventually even revived Mighty and Ray, but there was no adventure, no fun character moments, no engaging stories. Only multiple playable characters eventual returned, but the games they were attached to were at best disappointments. There has almost been nothing but consistent disappointment for me since Takashi Iizuka was put in charge of Sonic Team so I can confidently say that he did not meet my expectations. Was that because my expectations were skewed from the start? Maybe, but as some of them were based on Takashi Iizuka's history with the franchise and what that magazine article claimed it was probably also because of factors that I could not account for as well. But what about everyone else. What were your expectations when Takashi Iizuka was put in charge of Sonic Team and has he met them or not?
  12. Morning @Mr Loopone, hope the day has found you well.

    1. Mr Loopone

      Mr Loopone

      Morning (well afternoon) and thanks, it's been okay so far.

    2. Sonic Fan J

      Sonic Fan J

      Glad to hear. Hope it stays at least okay, or possibly even turns into a good day. Me, if I could just let go of the Sonic movie thread it'd probably be better.

  13. It's more like what @PeterPancake says; the average non fan just doesn't care about the details. As long as the most superficial elements are there that they recognize as Sonic then it is Sonic to them. Of course my personal opinion is that lack of caring about the details is part of what is severely wrong with our world on a whole but that's not an appropriate topic for these forums. As I say above in this post I pretty much agree with you about the general audience, but there is a huge difference to Sonic fans who do care about the details. Superficial similarities are not enough for them if what is changed they find offensive. As a result they question the validity of the words of those who don't care, because if superficial similarities is enough for them how can they expect an accurate comparison or representation. It's kind of like if an expert on grass was asking you to describe what species of grass you were looking at and you just told them it was green and grass so it must be grass. It's a gross misrepresentation of what is being asked for destroys trust. It's an unfortunate side effect in this case but I hope this makes it easier for you to understand where the trust problem is coming from. We may not be experts to be sure, but we are obsessive and that has to count for something in this case, good or bad.
  14. Not trying to be confrontational, heck I didn't want to post here again because I don't want to be negative and this topic makes me very negative, but if you want to see eyewitness testimony get thrown out do some research on the UFO crowd and people who have had Big Foot encounters. In those fields thousands of eyewitnesses mean nothing due to lack of tangible evidence which can be studied and analyzed. This is unfortunately a similar problem, and considering before the poster was shown we were told that supposedly someone from Brazil who saw the trailer said Sonic looked like this and the poster is obviously radically different no amount of words from people online is currently going to convince anyone. The witnesses have had wolf cried for them and now no one trusts them regardless of whether they spoke or not. At this point until Paramount shows off the final design no one is going to believe them, It's unfortunate to be sure, but this happens all the time unfortunately. My advice would be to hold off on trying to defend the witnesses until after the official design is properly revealed by Paramount as then the evidence to do so can be used and no one will be able to refute it. Until then, it comes off as if you are telling us to believe people after we felt like we were just lied to by them. It almost comes across as condescending and I doubt that's your intention. As for me, don't worry about trying to convince me one way or the other. Everything I've heard and seen tells me this isn't for me from any aspect and frankly that's fine. I'm disappointed in what I've seen but that's my feeling and I shouldn't go over board. I'll just stick to Toei Sonic as my go to Sonic and find y happiness there even if it's staying stuck in 1993, because frankly, if it makes me happy and isn't hurting anyone there isn't anything wrong with that.
  15. Did not want to say too much more about the Sonic movie, but I thought it was fairly comically that after I had just described Sonic as a fantastical woodland creature that represents the fantasy aspect of the series that Oshima described Sonic, and Mickey Mouse no less, as fairies that the audience naturally suspends their disbelief for and that are able to exist because the audience believes in them.

    ...

    Honestly though sometimes the things that I see where the way I perceive the franchise matches up with a number of things that Sonic's creators say kind of worries me with how no one else I talk to ever sees it as naturally as I do. It's such a weird feeling, especially since you would think I would feel validated in my thoughts, but honestly I don't like a need for validation so it makes having a similar thought process so unusual.

    I think I'm just rambling no though...

    1. tailsBOOM!

      tailsBOOM!

      I've alway viewed them as being in their own world/dimension, thus allowing to exist without following out natural laws and circumstances that allow us to be alive.   I guess that's sort of aligns with what you were saying.

    2. Sonic Fan J

      Sonic Fan J

      Oh no doubt. No matter how you try to rationalize it they have to exist in their own fantastical worlds, and frankly there is nothing wrong with that. I just sometimes wish that Sonic Team/SEGA would embrace their fantastical world more.

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