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  1. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Snowragnarok in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    The IDW comics are at least trying, to say the least. Mania also has only one Sonic, plus four other playable characters. They’re beginning to step away from the extremes of Colors.
  2. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior got a reaction from Snowragnarok in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    I made a joking mention on retro about a potential Forces 2 that replaced Classic Sonic with Tails...
    the "monkeys paw" being that he played like a shitty version of Yoshi's island. He already has the hover/flutter, just replace his eggs with his 06 dummy ring bombs.
    But now that  i think about it, I think it could be pretty neat if done well and not developed in the amount of time it takes for a Dualshock 4 to lose it's charge like Forces was. Give Tails more to do in 2D than just fly over everything and emphasize his kid genius aspect.
  3. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    I'd just cut the middle man out and add Tangle and Whisper. A new 2D or 3D game with Sonic/Tangle/Whisper would be great; not only do they have abilities that fit in line with Sonic, it'd be easy cross promotion with the IDW comics. 
    I Do want a Sonic & Shadow 2D game though; give the latter the slow time ability from his game to enhance his platforming, maybe that some other movement ability that I can't really think of it. You can literally make it Sonic's equivalent to Mega Man & Bass and really establish a 2D style for Shadow. 
  4. Nice Smile
    BadBehavior got a reaction from KnuxDLX in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    So... on Retro, Josh of Geek Critique had some pretty insightful things to say. The conversation involved this meme I tastefully updated:
    ,and was around the difference of mainstream opinion between 06 and Forces. Might as well just quote him.
    It made me realize that I'm finding especailly the bolded part rather difficult. Because I know what I want Sonic to be.
    I want it to be the exact opposite of Forces:
    No 2D sections infecting the stages like a pernicious cancer. But if it comes down to having 2D or never having a 3D sonic game ever again, then at the very least make them a side dish to the 3D main course; place them sparingly, don't stuff them to the gills with calories (on this case content), and don't quarter-ass the designs so hard that my 2 year old nephew could do better with Duplo blocks.
    No 3D stages that are just hallways so empty that it feel like the interns made them. In my fantasy Sonic game, the boost formula would be confined to the trash can of Sonic to gather dust along with other failed concepts like Labyrinth and Heroes, but maybe it could be used in a less prominent capacity. It could be made more seamless, like Advance 2's super speed. Maybe even make it and end-game powerup like the Crash Dash. (And don't sell it as DLC like you tried to do with Super Sonic, don't think we forgot when you tried to pull that shit) Basically, make it something I have to earn and not something where I can stub my toe on an enemy and get a full boost gauge.
    Controls that give Sonic the appropriate weight and heft and that he doesn't feel like he's got a supersized McDonalds mega meal sloshing around his stomach, propelling him in random directions when you jump
    A story that actually tells itself out in cutscenes rather than fucking timeskip text. Well animated cutscenes, not the "babies first SFM project" tier like Colours.
    Pontaff to go away to Nickelodeon or wherever so writers who know what they're doing can take the mantle (and while we're at it, actually keep an eye on them so they don't write asinine shit like "they've been torturing him for months" when that never actually happened),
    For Sega to loosen the leash on their characters so shit like "Shadow is Vegeta and he doesn't have friends" never happens again.
    Characters actually have a reason for being there that aren't just flagrantly disgusting pandering to people who aren't even going to buy the game you are inserting the pandering into,
    Music that doesn't sound like my very soul committing seppuku
    A story that isn't just people farting around doing shit no one cares about. @Kuzu said it best in the Netflix show thread:
    I could go on but I'd basically be describing a new Sonic Adventure game.
    Most of the other stuff like graphics (basically, don't look like an uprezzed Wii U game) and voice acting (Schwartz Forever) wouldn't really make the game better per se.
    To tie it into the topic of the thread, I guess the popular opinion that I share is that I want the next sonic game to basically not be anything at all like what's been released this decade.
  5. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    Generations was fine as just a nice little nod and nothing more; the second they brought it back for Forces and actually decided to make them separate dimensional counterparts is when shit became pants on stupid. Because at that point, they were blatantly just trying to pander to classic fans by bringing him back and then trying to tie the game into Mania. 
    Sega are so fucking afraid of letting these games stand on their own, they actively have to invoke Classic's image to get some type of good will in anyway. 
  6. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    Probably a Sonic equivalent to Super Mario 3D Land/World; a 3D game that plays like the 2D ones. 
    A lot of Sonic Adventure's concessions  were done as a result of Sega simply not having the technology at the time to create an actual 3D Classic game. Those concessions were somewhat accepted as a result, but then they became the central identity of the main games and idea of a 3D classic game just drifted further and further. 
    We all know what  a Classic styled game is like, the question becomes how do you implement that with actual level design. Yes, I am aware of Sonic Utopia and all other fan games, but they kind of run into the same problem most fangames do, there's no actual level design to take advantage of what they're tryin to do and often feel like tech demos. 
    For as much as people rag on Sega for not making a classic 3D game, fans aren't really any closer to getting there themselves. 
  7. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to CrownSlayer’s Shadow in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    They don’t deserve it—they sure as hell wouldn’t give you one, so why give them that benefit?
    But there is a distinction between a Classic fan and a Classic purist. It not a matter of generalizing than it is looking at the very character they’ve been displaying for years. There’s a difference in saying “I like the Classics,” “I couldn’t get into the series after Adventure,” or “the games these days don’t have that same charm as the Classics,” simply describing tastes compared to shit like “Get rid of all the characters after 1994,” “3D is the problem,” or “Sonic shouldn’t need a story or talk,” and the belittling attitude that always come after it. It’s much the same as if a Gen1 or 2 Pokémon fan (like myself) that either doesn’t fancy much of the generations after it or finds it difficult to get into but doesn’t find the need to waste energy mocking those who enjoy the later generations.
    Simply put, one’s an asshole and the other isn’t. There’s not that much thought needed to differentiate the two beyond that.
    Only problem is that the worst of them have spoiled the whole bunch and made all of them come off as the same.
  8. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Wraith in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    Over the past 10 years Classic sonic fans have gotten just about every change they wanted for the series on the aesthetics/lore side short of a full on reboot. Sonic's friends were phased out for the classic Sonic/Tails/Eggman setup. Rolling green hills took precedence in marketing material. The complexity of the storytelling was rolled back a couple of notches. Alternate characters went from a series staple to a joke of a suggestion. Amy couldn't even be playable in a spinoff like Sonic Boom without a jab being thrown her way by an official outlet. 
    It kind of forced me to realize that the Classic Sonic...setup? Really isn't all that interesting to me. Not on it's own. They're good games but that's in spite of their simplistic narratives and not because of them. Sonic is just more interesting when he has more personalities to bounce off of and the stories/lore of the series are more fun to think about when it takes more than a few cliffnotes about yet another magic island to sum it up. 
    Swathes of cities populated by humans add to the grounded texture the classic games already implied. Characters with more pathos to them like Shadow and Blaze up the stakes without betraying Sonic's own perpetually carefree outlook. More serious villains have the potential to provide an alternative to Dr Robotnik's fun but ultimately toothless antics and challenge the cast in new ways. Sonic stories were just...better in the mid 2000s. Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 are probably the best stories they've ever done period. Even games like 06 have moments I like more than anything on either of the other two decades. There's room for improvement, but the path there isn't to take complexity away. It's to add to it. 
  9. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    This is my biggest problem with the series at the moment, and I don't think Classic Sonic fans really understand the damage they're doing to the series with this mindset. I fully understand the preference for the aesthetic and gameplay, especially since its still the most successful and consistent Sonic style to date, so I get it. 
    But then I have to ask, then what? The series has spent the entire last decade exercising itself of everything critics and classic fans have criticized, and we're still no closer to this proverbial golden game that apparently would have existed if we got rid of all of that stuff. If Mania is quite honestly the pinnacle of what Sonic as a series has to offer, then that's essentially an admission that there's no need to further improve. 
    Sonic Forces is, quite honestly, the game that is the culmination of fans constantly criticizing the games and Sega's own apathy towards said criticism. It's a game that lacks any type of identity of its own, and slavishly slaps together the superficial aspects that fans have been asking for, but with no understanding of why they worked, because they've been told for years that anything they try doesn't work. 
    And with Whitehead's team forming their own studio and likely not being commissioned for a new 2D game, I honestly have to wonder what lies in the future for this series. Are we just going to keep shamelessly trying to pander to people in attempt at being inoffensive or will the series finally regain its backbone and just put its best foot forward regardless of what people think of it? 
  10. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    Well I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt; I don't wanna generalize people who honestly just prefer classic Sonic over modern Sonic versus yea, the purists that don't tolerate anything after 1998. 
  11. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to CrownSlayer’s Shadow in Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!   
    Okay, no no no no no. Let’s not play this as any kind of lack of understanding, because quite frankly they’ve been at this arguably since Heroes and know full well what it is their doing.
    The thing is that they don’t care—as long as they get exactly what they want, everything else means fuck all. And they’ll still mock and complain about anything outside of that sphere they’ve already gotten after more than a decade of demanding it.
    All the damage Classic Purists (to separate the Classic fans who actually aren’t assholes about it) their doing as far as I can tell is intentional, as long as it doesn’t affect their precious tastes they’ve now gotten. After a decade of the loudest and worst elements that have made the general group among this fandom’s most infamous, trolling those with different tastes for liking aspects of this franchise that they don’t, and praising the loss of things—from multiple characters, fleshed out storytelling and world building, all the way down to the characters simply talking  so as to make their thoughts known—that people enjoyed in spite of the haphazard and often dubious quality even when it still doesn’t affect their side of things, it’s long time to calling the intentions what they really are.
    The fact they they got what they wanted with Mania and still felt a need to troll those who wanted to enjoy Forces (quality notwithstanding), should have made this clear. And they’ll continue with this sentiment for as long as they can keep the steam rolling, which I’d say would only end when the Modern side of things gets its act together and starts making more decent works.
    And that’s not even getting into the other bad apples.
  12. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    Here's the thing though, how about instead of saying "lawl Sonic shouldn't have a plot" because complaints like that can lead to the boring and tepid shit that we got in Sonic Boom.
    Now if your preference is for Sonic to just be a simplified comedy series, fine. But you're going to need more than just comedy if you want to entice people beyond  children.
    I liked Sonic Boom for what it was, but there's literally nothing to that series other than jokes. The writers straight up admitted that they focused more on writing comedic jokes than actually developing an engaging plot. I could get as much mileage watching clips on Twitter from Sonic Boom.
    That's why I would prefer something somewhat more substantial. Instead of talking about how bad it COULD be, how about you talk about ways that it can be improved? If Sonic's attempts at being profound have failed, then what can be done to improve that? Because if all you're gonna do is just say "Don't do it because its not needed" then we're just gonna another tepid show like Sonic Boom.
    Once again, if that's your preference fine but I would prefer something anyone from any age group can be engaged. Something for both children and adults.
  13. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Natie in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    I'd honestly take a corny anime story over something drowning in irony. I used to hate 3D Sonic stories until we got an alternative that was immensely less likable and charming.
    Generally I think we all just want good writing lol.
  14. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    As for the points about the Deadly Six and Infinite. I mean, there's a reason nobody takes  them seriously, because the writing simply isn't interested in actually presenting them as legitimate threats. It's the same issue that Eggman has nowadays despite always being the final boss. 
    Sonic beats the Deadly Six in every one of their encounters, barring the first one and that was more due to Sonic's own mistakes than any actual ability on the Six's part. They drained the life out of the world, but with no sense of scale, it just feels like a minor inconvenience at best. Add to the fact that most of Sonic's jokes are at their expense, it doesn't really do much to sell that they're very "Deadly". 
    And for comparison, look at how the Comics use them. They actually go around just fucking shit up, and there's very little jokes at their expense or bouts of incompetence from them. It actually helps a lot to sell them as credible threats than what Lost World ever did, and it didn't really have to do much. 
    For Infinite; he ALMOST breaks the mold and actually does get the upperhand against Sonic, but they never really develop any kind of dynamic between the two; Sonic loses in the first cutscene, then Infinite returns and boasts how powerful he is before losing and then just retreating. 
    This isn't just me fanboying over Shadow; it's a legitimate point of contrast. But notice how Sonic NEVER gets the upperhand against him before their final fight? In the first cutscene, Shadow outmaneuvers Sonic and gets him stuck in jail. Then in their second fight, Sonic manages to hold his own but not quite get over before the fight is called off. And in their final confrontation, Sonic is finally able to beat him. It's gradual buildup to Sonic inevitably getting that W that makes it feel worth it, because you, as the player, want to see Sonic succeed. 
    They just...put way more effort into the antagonists before as opposed to nowadays, where it just feels like they're just going through the motions and not really trying to challenge Sonic in any meaningful way. Which isn't bad mind you, not every antagonist will put our hero through the hoops but when that's all we've been getting for over a decade, it can definitely start to feel draining. 
  15. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    Like I said, its less that Sonic doesn't take anything seriously; it's more how the narrative is presented. Actually, its' a pretty good point. Its not that Sonic is less serious, the stories are less serious, so it makes Sonic's attitude less special. When everything is serious, Sonic is the only one who refuses to give in and just confidently moves forward. It not only provides relief to the dire situations, it genuinely makes Sonic seem defiant when he's irreverent in the face of overwhelming odds. 
    I think the difference nowadays is that Sonic is less "defiant" and more that the situations just aren't presented as dire enough for Sonic's attitude to really shine through. So it just makes him feel annoying, because nothing he faces FEELS dangerous. 
    When Sonic is facing gods and  talking shit? that's badass. When Sonic is facing the likes of Deadly Six, who present no threat to him whatsoever, his attitude is nowhere near as charismatic. Infinite talks all of his shit, but Sonic beats him in every one of their fights. By contrast, it took Sonic three tries for him to finally beat Shadow. A Hero is only as good as the villains he faces after all. 
  16. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Roger_van_der_weide in What happened to the Spin offs?   
    Since most of the spinoff games were on handhelds, I'd say the death of handhelds caused the death of Spinoff games.

    But yeah, the quality of most of them was mediocre, unlike the quality of the main games, that's also..Mediocre. But now that Sega stopped spreading their manpower over so many games and focuses on one main game at the time, the games have become...Still mediocre. Progress!

    Well okay, that's unfair, we did get some good main games this decade. We don't need any small budget side games made by a diffrent studio when we get great games like Sonic Mania!
    ....Oh, wait.

    Sonic's reputation will be better. Sure, folk outside the Sonic fandom can already barely bother to remember Sonic Rush or Sonic CHronicles as examples of good/ bad games, but now without spinoffs, there's less games people don't remember existing. Progress!

    Spin offs didn't go away tough, they just became main game parasites. Or the other way around. Take Sonic Forces forces for example, that game was meant to be a spinoff, created to star the Avatar.
    But hey, we ain't doing spin offs anymore so now that project got sabotaged and turned into a frankenstein monster to contain the "main game" ingriedients within.
    And sure, the initial Avatar spinoff Might have been bad.
    Imagine the horror if Forces was an Avatar focused spinoff on the 3ds, while at the same time Sonic Team made a more focused main Sonic title without the war and avatar elements. 2 Focused  games with a clear concept, the horror. They could have been mildly mediocre.
    But now by forcing 2 entirely diffrent concepts together into one unfocused Frankenstein monster, the result is worse then each of the individual games could have been. Progress!

    And uhh.
    So whenever a game is dissapointing, now instead of going "eh, hopefully the next game coming out in 6 months will be better.", now we get to stew in each dissapointing game for 2 to 3 years, enhancing bitterness. Progress, progress, progress.

    I think one huge weakness of Sega and the Sonic franchise is their restlessness, constantly chasing after trends, changing direction.
    Rise of Lyric's development cycle is a wonderful example of that.
    So, best solution would be to give everyone at Sega a chill pill and just let the development team make A GAME in peace.
    So if they are SO desperate to chase after another trend or violently want to move production to a new gaming system, smart use of Spinoffs could be the way to offset the chaos.
    "But Roger" you say, "that was the situation in the 2000's and that didn't help at all!"

    Haha, yes, but...


    Yeah, so moral of the story, this franchise is doomed. I don't even know what my point is. Uh, I like Spin offs? Because if there's only a 1/10 chance a Sonic game is good, having more games at least means I don't have to wait 50 years inbetween each good Sonic game.

    "Extra lard" implies at least there's a lot of content, even if bad and shallow. I suggest "Diet toast sandwich".
  17. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Roger_van_der_weide in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    I don't think comedy in and on itself is the problem.
    Problem I have with the comedy of the past decade is that it has zero energy to it.
    Come on, Sonic's a fast hedgehog, Eggman a crazy man child with a robot army and giant ego.
    There's aeroplanes, space ships, laser canons. You'd think this leads to high energy crazy humor.

    Instead, all the comedy we get is Sonic and friends standing around like a sack of potatoes going "haha. Eggman's mustache has a funny shape. Haha, the fat guy is hungry, haha. Haha, Mc Donalds food is not very good. Haha. it's like I'm a videogame man or something. Haha".
    No energy at all.

    The Mania adventure/ Team Sonic racing shorts were a way better example on how to do comedy with Sonic.
  18. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior got a reaction from Snowragnarok in Why I hardly have faith in the Sonic franchise now   
    I dont get how people can think Forces is anything better than awful. People say it's still better than 06 but
    Has multiple gameplay styles, none of which are remotely fun A story that takes itself too seriously Has Sonic's "shitty friends" 06 has all of those things too so what's different? The fact that Forces is so boring that at least it puts you to sleep before it starts getting bad? That Forces is so short that at least it can't get any worse before it ends?
    I think the doubters might be onto something when they say that we're in a new Dark Age.
  19. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Roger_van_der_weide in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    I'm glad Sega will be more strict with them.
    Sega themselves have a great record in getting their characters right and creating good stories, like Sonic Free Riders, Forces and Lost worl... Oh.

    Remind me why Sega being hands on is a good thing again? They've been doing an abysmall job this decade. 
    I laugh everytime their interference with IDW comics is brought up as a good thing.
    Oh, Sega is assisting Ian Flynn with accuracy? That's like reading Uwe Boll is giving Steven Spielberg advice on directing.

    Unless they're bringing in the old guard like Shiro Maekawa, I rather have fresh talent take a shot at writing.
    Altough if I see Pontaff and Graff mentioned as Character supervisors in the credits, I'll screenshot it and frame it up for a painting in my house.
    That'd be glorious post modern art on par with Marcel Duchamp's "Fountain".
  20. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    You know, from what I'm gathering here, you guys just want another Sonic X lmao. 
    I'm torn to be honest; a show focused around the main continuity or even an adaptation of the IDW comics is probably the SAFEST option and I would be lying if I said that wasn't my preference.
    But at the same time, I feel like the creators would feel constrained with such a setting as we've seen Flynn having to deal with Sega's mandates on how they want the show to be written. A new continuity or one based on the movie might give them more creative freedom...but I can't say that I would be as interested if it wasn't based on the games. 
  21. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Roger_van_der_weide in Netflix Sonic Cartoon coming in 2022   
    Considering most of MANOFACTION's shows deal with a teenage boy in highschool gaining sci fi powers, think we're getting a Sonic in Highschool setting this time? It'd be the first time Sonic being a teen is actually relevant to the setting.

    "Wildbrain is a Canadian media company. They animated Mega Man Fully Charged, and are the owners of DiC Entertainment’s library. Yes, the DiC Entertainment behind SatAM, Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, and Sonic Underground. "

    Woa there Sonicstadium, sending the RALLY4SALLY attackdogs on their tail right away huh?

    What would turn me of from this show? If it's another ($*%ing 4th wall breaking meta self aware yuck fest. Got no stummich for that anymore.

    What would make me love it? Well, if it's in continuity with the games and actually filling up some holes, that'd be nice.
    But I doubt that would happen. At this point I just want Sonic in a genuine ADVENTURE with an interesting fully fletched setting.
    Been hungry for that after a decade of nothingness.
  22. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior reacted to Kuzu in Why Silver Matters and Why He Deserves More   
    This is just my personal opinion, but wouldn't Silver be better suited to having his own game so you don't have to constrain his abilities to be line with Sonic's? I don't wanna call it an issue, but these characters all have amazing abilities that don't really get any focus because they're forced to conform to the mold set by Sonic. 
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    BadBehavior reacted to Roger_van_der_weide in I have a bad feeling the 30th Anniversary 2021 game will be delayed till 2022   
    Forces was delayed a year past it's 25th anniversary deadline tough, so not sure if that's such a good example.
    If anything, it boggles the mind why the big anniversary game only had an empty engine and vague concept outlines on the big day.
    Practically every Sonic game from Fire and Ice on has been delayed. Didn't do fire and ice any favors (Altough I vastly prefer it over Shattered Crystals, but the rest of the world keeps forgetting it exists) Didn't do Forces or Team Racing any favors. It did the Sonic movie some favors tough, so there's the one big victory for Team Delay.

    That said, yeah, delaying the game until it's finished is generally a good idea, but at this point I don't really care.
    I have zero faith in Sonic Team's general direction and attitude toward the series. I don't care how well polished and perfected it is if the game at it's core was rotten to begin with.
  25. Thumbs Up
    BadBehavior got a reaction from Cornelius Fudge in I have a bad feeling the 30th Anniversary 2021 game will be delayed till 2022   
    Obligatory "Forces took 4 years to make and look how that turned out" comment.
    Just saying, all the time in the world doesn't matter if that time is being pissed down the drain like it must have been during that games development.
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