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Domino

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  1. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Typical in Realism in Sonic   
    Oh yeah, it's a real shame what happened to Espio. Take a look at his original design:
    Look how much smaller his eyes are! And those are some seriously heavy brow ridges. Not only that, but his pupils are actually circular instead of elongated ovals. I'm serious. You can see this pretty clearly in his Sonic the Fighters model:
    I don't see this mentioned a lot, but it's something that really made his design feel more distinct, not to mention more chameleon-like. Especially when lined up with the other characters.
    His Heroes redesign, though...
    Oh boy, I think this is the point where the homogenization had fully set in. His pupils are now the same oval shape as the others, his eyes are larger and more triangular like Shadow's, and his brows are now less heavy than Sonic's. He doesn't even have those black areas between his eyes anymore. I'll be honest, he kind of feels like "Shadow, but purple" now. Almost like he could be an unlockable reskin for him.
     
     
    Yeah, Mario has a thing where characters belonging to the same species tend to look like one another, but since there are so many different species, you actually end up with a lot of variety. And even then, there are many exceptions. I think the named human Mario characters avert this entirely. If you ignore superficial details like hats, overalls, and facial hair, Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi are all pretty different from one another physique-wise. The Koopalings and DK Crew also come in a decent assortment of shapes and sizes.
  2. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from batson in Realism in Sonic   
    Wait, seriously? If I had to compare Charmy's eyes to any other character's, I'd compare them to Amy's.
    ...His whole face, really.
  3. Fist Bump
    Domino reacted to Kuzu in Realism in Sonic   
    Yea, I agree that the redesigns that Heroes gave to the Chaotix really took away their unique characteristics; you can still recognize them by silhouette, but oh man does that "Shadow but purple" comment right true. 
  4. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Kuzu in Realism in Sonic   
    Oh yeah, it's a real shame what happened to Espio. Take a look at his original design:
    Look how much smaller his eyes are! And those are some seriously heavy brow ridges. Not only that, but his pupils are actually circular instead of elongated ovals. I'm serious. You can see this pretty clearly in his Sonic the Fighters model:
    I don't see this mentioned a lot, but it's something that really made his design feel more distinct, not to mention more chameleon-like. Especially when lined up with the other characters.
    His Heroes redesign, though...
    Oh boy, I think this is the point where the homogenization had fully set in. His pupils are now the same oval shape as the others, his eyes are larger and more triangular like Shadow's, and his brows are now less heavy than Sonic's. He doesn't even have those black areas between his eyes anymore. I'll be honest, he kind of feels like "Shadow, but purple" now. Almost like he could be an unlockable reskin for him.
     
     
    Yeah, Mario has a thing where characters belonging to the same species tend to look like one another, but since there are so many different species, you actually end up with a lot of variety. And even then, there are many exceptions. I think the named human Mario characters avert this entirely. If you ignore superficial details like hats, overalls, and facial hair, Mario, Luigi, Wario, and Waluigi are all pretty different from one another physique-wise. The Koopalings and DK Crew also come in a decent assortment of shapes and sizes.
  5. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Natie in Realism in Sonic   
    You know, Psi's post got me thinking.
    For all the discussion about characters looking so different that they clash with the others, I'm really surprised I don't see much talk about how homogeneous the majority the reoccurring cast is design-wise. It's really sad to me just how many Sonic characters have proportions so similar to one another that it almost feels like they were designed on tracing paper.
    There seems to be this strange, persistent idea among both fans and actual character designers of this franchise that Sonic characters have to look exactly "like that" to not clash with the others. You know what I'm talking about. How many Sonic characters have Sonic's overall body proportions? How many have his exact facial proportions? A lot. If you tried to count them all on your hands, you'd run out of fingers.
    And this is something that's so strangely specific to the Sonic series in particular. Think about the character designs in any other video game or cartoon franchise - Mario, Crash Bandicoot, you name it. Chances are, the designers made a conscious choice to make the characters visually distinct from one another while still keeping them looking stylistically cohesive. But with Sonic, if stylistic cohesion isn't disregarded entirely, it's applied to such an absurdly strong degree that the designers barely give themselves any room for variety - The kind of variety we'd take for granted in most other series.
     
    And yeah, you're spot-on about how it retroactively crept back to pre-existing designs.
    Look at Knuckles here:
    You see how long his body is compared to Sonic's? Look at that leg-to-body ratio! Well, unfortunately, his modern design's body proportions are near-identical to that of Sonic's modern design. In a way, Modern Knuckles is sort of like an inverse situation to Boom Knuckles. He got all gangly.
    At least Tails still has the whole "Shorter than Sonic with a pear-shaped body" going for him to this day.
  6. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from batson in Realism in Sonic   
    You know, Psi's post got me thinking.
    For all the discussion about characters looking so different that they clash with the others, I'm really surprised I don't see much talk about how homogeneous the majority the reoccurring cast is design-wise. It's really sad to me just how many Sonic characters have proportions so similar to one another that it almost feels like they were designed on tracing paper.
    There seems to be this strange, persistent idea among both fans and actual character designers of this franchise that Sonic characters have to look exactly "like that" to not clash with the others. You know what I'm talking about. How many Sonic characters have Sonic's overall body proportions? How many have his exact facial proportions? A lot. If you tried to count them all on your hands, you'd run out of fingers.
    And this is something that's so strangely specific to the Sonic series in particular. Think about the character designs in any other video game or cartoon franchise - Mario, Crash Bandicoot, you name it. Chances are, the designers made a conscious choice to make the characters visually distinct from one another while still keeping them looking stylistically cohesive. But with Sonic, if stylistic cohesion isn't disregarded entirely, it's applied to such an absurdly strong degree that the designers barely give themselves any room for variety - The kind of variety we'd take for granted in most other series.
     
    And yeah, you're spot-on about how it retroactively crept back to pre-existing designs.
    Look at Knuckles here:
    You see how long his body is compared to Sonic's? Look at that leg-to-body ratio! Well, unfortunately, his modern design's body proportions are near-identical to that of Sonic's modern design. In a way, Modern Knuckles is sort of like an inverse situation to Boom Knuckles. He got all gangly.
    At least Tails still has the whole "Shorter than Sonic with a pear-shaped body" going for him to this day.
  7. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from DryLagoon in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    I understand the opinion that these movie robots are visually uninteresting, and to some extent I do agree, but is nobody going to acknowledge that they kind of look like... Eggs?
     
    It wouldn't surprise me if that's how Robotnik earns his "Eggman" nickname here. He's neither round nor bald in this movie, so if his appearance isn't egg-like, then perhaps the egg theme got shunted over to his robots.
  8. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Dr Ryan in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    I understand the opinion that these movie robots are visually uninteresting, and to some extent I do agree, but is nobody going to acknowledge that they kind of look like... Eggs?
     
    It wouldn't surprise me if that's how Robotnik earns his "Eggman" nickname here. He's neither round nor bald in this movie, so if his appearance isn't egg-like, then perhaps the egg theme got shunted over to his robots.
  9. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from UltraGizmo64 in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Sorry to add fuel to the wild speculation, but we'll be reaching the movie's original planned release date of November 8th next week.
    I'm not going to be so bold as to say "oh yeah, we are totally getting a trailer then," but that date does mark roughly three months until its actual release. With the standees coming out of the woodwork, it's enough to make you wonder.
  10. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from FFWF in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    Well, given how Sonic himself and nearly the entire supporting cast are anthropomorphic animals of some kind, It'd be pretty weird to think his world didn't have a reasonable population of animal people. I'm honestly surprised it took us this long to see anthro settlements.
    On the other end of the spectrum, I've always been weirded out by people who act like the introduction of humans other than Eggman was some kind of out-of-left field lorebreaker. Not only because Eggman himself must have come from somewhere, but because the whole premise of "main cast of anthro animals in a world populated mostly by humans" is actually a really common thing. For example: Looney Tunes, Sam & Max: Freelance Police, The Muppets, Yogi Bear, Top Cat, 60s Hanna-Barbera cartoons in general, the list goes on. It's not that unusual of an idea.
  11. Fist Bump
    Domino reacted to StriCNYN3 in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    See, I never had a problem with Sonic and his animal friends coexisting with actual humans. It's when the humans get photo realistic where I have to give a hard no to. But when people become so adverse to any human being in a Sonic game no matter how they're designed because "They were never there to begin with" is when I scratch my head.
    You see, in the classics, Eggman is the one that's the crazy human villain that's going out of his way to these weird uncharted magical islands coming to mess SONIC and friends shit up. As for the rest of the humans? Well, they're clearly sane and minding their own business in their side of the world where the city takes place.
    Sonic's an animal, so of course the starting scene in the games are typically going to be set in a ever-green like environment with no humans around (They're clearly up-right standing individuals if Eggman is anything to go by, so why would they ever be seen in a place like Green Hill Zone, which takes place on a drifting island, to begin with when they can be in the city with technology?). Did that stop places like Star light Zone, Spring Yard Zone, Casino Night Zone, etc and etc from existing? No. Why? Because there's more to the world these characters are set on than just the typical animal like setting. Sonic in Sonic 1 is literally chasing down Eggman from an animal like environment to several thriving man-made environments on that same planet from beginning to end of that game. You can see it all for yourself as you're playing if you pay attention to the backgrounds..... and Eggman, being human himself and all, clearly had to come from 2 somebodies that aren't animals... But for some reason, these ideas and the story telling through game play just didn't click with some people.
    I've seen some people act like Sonic Adventure was this weird turning point dealing with that, when really, I'd say this was what the series had envisioned itself all along but finally had a gaming console with the necessary power to flesh out ideas like that. 
    You see, Sonic in Sonic Adventure, being the speedy drifter that he is, came to Eggman's / human territory aka Station Square this time around instead of the reverse where Eggman went to the magical islands for the emeralds before SA. It just so happened that Chaos did his shenanigans at the city side of the world where Sonic just so happened to be at that point in time... So yea. The humans were always there. It just wasn't necessary to show them off in the Genesis era because it just wasn't needed then from a game play standpoint, but the idea of them existing was always there. Hell, in SA, they still go out of their to show that the only type of people going to these forest-y Sonic like environments are archaeologist and adventurers. Mystic Ruins is a tourist attraction and isn't popping with human activity like Station Square is and takes a literal train ride far away from the city to get there which pretty much falls in line with the classics. Hell, Even Sonic Adventure 2 shows that Green Hill Zone still takes place on a far away drifting island with no people around.
    So I never really understood why humans getting involved is such an outlandish idea. I kinda want to say it's because those same people who grew up with the 90's tv shows where humans weren't really prevalent other than Eggman, so they stuck with that idea until they saw the Dreamcast games and up come up and just went "Uhhh... wtf is this 2 legged suit and tied individual?". But that's just my hunch tho.
  12. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Indigo Rush in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    One detail I have never seen anyone bring up is how out of all major western Sonic media from the 90s, AoStH was the one with the greatest number of human and human-looking characters.
    As far as major characters go, we have Von Schlemmer, Lucas, Lucinda, Momma Robotnik, Katella, and Doctor Quark. Digging deeper gets us Mobius' World Leaders, Miss Saccharine, Snow Height, Five of the Seven Squatty Guys, Cinderella, Fairy Godfather, the Wise Old Hermit, Blackbeard, and Robotnik's various ancestors.
     
    Sonic Christmas Blast, effectively a posthumous AoStH special, seems to have even fewer reservations about showing humans than the series proper. Santa Claus is the most obvious example, but the unnamed boy who tells Sonic about Robotnik Claus also comes to mind, given his screentime.

    The scene with Robotnik posing as a mall Santa has a crowd seemingly populated entirely by human children.


    I understand that SatAM and Archie had more elaborate worldbuilding that probably left a bigger impact on the minds of most fans, but for a fanbase that loves deep cuts as much as this one, I'm surprised AoStH's humans get ignored or downplayed whenever the topic of human Sonic characters comes up.
  13. Fist Bump
    Domino got a reaction from Myst in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    One detail I have never seen anyone bring up is how out of all major western Sonic media from the 90s, AoStH was the one with the greatest number of human and human-looking characters.
    As far as major characters go, we have Von Schlemmer, Lucas, Lucinda, Momma Robotnik, Katella, and Doctor Quark. Digging deeper gets us Mobius' World Leaders, Miss Saccharine, Snow Height, Five of the Seven Squatty Guys, Cinderella, Fairy Godfather, the Wise Old Hermit, Blackbeard, and Robotnik's various ancestors.
     
    Sonic Christmas Blast, effectively a posthumous AoStH special, seems to have even fewer reservations about showing humans than the series proper. Santa Claus is the most obvious example, but the unnamed boy who tells Sonic about Robotnik Claus also comes to mind, given his screentime.

    The scene with Robotnik posing as a mall Santa has a crowd seemingly populated entirely by human children.


    I understand that SatAM and Archie had more elaborate worldbuilding that probably left a bigger impact on the minds of most fans, but for a fanbase that loves deep cuts as much as this one, I'm surprised AoStH's humans get ignored or downplayed whenever the topic of human Sonic characters comes up.
  14. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Dr. Mechano in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    One detail I have never seen anyone bring up is how out of all major western Sonic media from the 90s, AoStH was the one with the greatest number of human and human-looking characters.
    As far as major characters go, we have Von Schlemmer, Lucas, Lucinda, Momma Robotnik, Katella, and Doctor Quark. Digging deeper gets us Mobius' World Leaders, Miss Saccharine, Snow Height, Five of the Seven Squatty Guys, Cinderella, Fairy Godfather, the Wise Old Hermit, Blackbeard, and Robotnik's various ancestors.
     
    Sonic Christmas Blast, effectively a posthumous AoStH special, seems to have even fewer reservations about showing humans than the series proper. Santa Claus is the most obvious example, but the unnamed boy who tells Sonic about Robotnik Claus also comes to mind, given his screentime.

    The scene with Robotnik posing as a mall Santa has a crowd seemingly populated entirely by human children.


    I understand that SatAM and Archie had more elaborate worldbuilding that probably left a bigger impact on the minds of most fans, but for a fanbase that loves deep cuts as much as this one, I'm surprised AoStH's humans get ignored or downplayed whenever the topic of human Sonic characters comes up.
  15. Thumbs Up
    Domino reacted to Dr. Mechano in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    But without humans, where would Eggman have come from? Guy's gotta originate from somewhere.
    Unless you meant not including any humans literally - i.e., even Eggman would be gone, which honestly sounds like it'd be one of the biggest mistakes this franchise could make (and that's saying something).
  16. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from skull902 in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    Well, given how Sonic himself and nearly the entire supporting cast are anthropomorphic animals of some kind, It'd be pretty weird to think his world didn't have a reasonable population of animal people. I'm honestly surprised it took us this long to see anthro settlements.
    On the other end of the spectrum, I've always been weirded out by people who act like the introduction of humans other than Eggman was some kind of out-of-left field lorebreaker. Not only because Eggman himself must have come from somewhere, but because the whole premise of "main cast of anthro animals in a world populated mostly by humans" is actually a really common thing. For example: Looney Tunes, Sam & Max: Freelance Police, The Muppets, Yogi Bear, Top Cat, 60s Hanna-Barbera cartoons in general, the list goes on. It's not that unusual of an idea.
  17. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Myst in What is it about Sonic that makes so many wish to disconnect him from non-Eggman humans?   
    Well, given how Sonic himself and nearly the entire supporting cast are anthropomorphic animals of some kind, It'd be pretty weird to think his world didn't have a reasonable population of animal people. I'm honestly surprised it took us this long to see anthro settlements.
    On the other end of the spectrum, I've always been weirded out by people who act like the introduction of humans other than Eggman was some kind of out-of-left field lorebreaker. Not only because Eggman himself must have come from somewhere, but because the whole premise of "main cast of anthro animals in a world populated mostly by humans" is actually a really common thing. For example: Looney Tunes, Sam & Max: Freelance Police, The Muppets, Yogi Bear, Top Cat, 60s Hanna-Barbera cartoons in general, the list goes on. It's not that unusual of an idea.
  18. Way Past Cool
    Domino got a reaction from BaronGrackle in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Indigo, as far as the eye discussion goes, you may be more on the money than you think. The whole "two eyes lodged together" thing isn't just a potential compromise, it's how Sonic's eyes are actually structured. I know that might sound weird, so let me pull some sprites from the Sonic 1 title screen.

    See how Sonic's eyelids are, despite touching each other, noticeably defined as separate objects? I know they aren't drawn like this in more recent depictions, but I think it's an important feature to note, since it shows us eye definition we usually wouldn't see.
    Now what happens when he opens them all the way?

    Okay, now there's no explicit separation between his left and right eyes as there was with his eyelids, but you can still make out the silhouette of two ovals touching each other. It's like they drew two cartoon eyes smooshed together and omitted the inner outlines. Try drawing an imaginary line between them and you'll see what I mean.
    Now let's bring his eyebrows into the picture:

    As Sonic goes from his resting face to his "attitude" face, his brows come down and break up the silhouette of his eyes as they furrow. This is the most common expression we see Sonic with, so it's how people imagine him when they think of him. Unfortunately, since his unfurrowed-brow face is seen nowhere near as often, people seem to have forgotten all the details mentioned above and instead think of Sonic's eyes as being some kind of amorphous white mass with an inexplicable cleft on top.
    Honestly, the whole idea that Sonic's eyes are somehow actually conjoined is such a weird case of fans taking a stylization feature way too literally.
     
    Anyway, I guess the real question is whether or not Sonic would look okay with his eyes touching in a live-action setting. I mean, it's a no-brainer he'd have them like that in an animated feature, but Paramount made things hard for themselves by going the live-action route. The crew's first attempt ignored this design challenge altogether by just giving him those weird quasi-human eyes, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he needs to have all forms of cartoonishness expunged from his design to look believable next to real-life humans. Another cartoon character with similarly-shaped eyes also made the questionable leap to live action a few years back. It was Woody Woodpecker, of all characters. How did he do?

    Well, cartoon Woody's eyes are basically touching each other, much like Sonic's. If you erased the line between them, you'd have pretty much the same thing.
    For his live action design, his eyes were pushed slightly farther apart, but were otherwise unchanged in size and shape, so they still feel like they belong to the same character.
    I get that using the Woody Woodpecker movie as a positive example is weird, but for all the flak that movie caught, Woody's design wasn't complained about much. When people found him unsettling, it had more to do with his psychopathic tendencies than anything visual.
    Does this mean that Sonic ought to take this approach? Well, I'm not going to say there's only one specific way to correctly adapt a cartoon character to live-action, but I think most of us would have vastly, vastly preferred a take like this to the one we got in the initial trailer.
  19. Chuckle
    Domino got a reaction from Snowragnarok in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Indigo, as far as the eye discussion goes, you may be more on the money than you think. The whole "two eyes lodged together" thing isn't just a potential compromise, it's how Sonic's eyes are actually structured. I know that might sound weird, so let me pull some sprites from the Sonic 1 title screen.

    See how Sonic's eyelids are, despite touching each other, noticeably defined as separate objects? I know they aren't drawn like this in more recent depictions, but I think it's an important feature to note, since it shows us eye definition we usually wouldn't see.
    Now what happens when he opens them all the way?

    Okay, now there's no explicit separation between his left and right eyes as there was with his eyelids, but you can still make out the silhouette of two ovals touching each other. It's like they drew two cartoon eyes smooshed together and omitted the inner outlines. Try drawing an imaginary line between them and you'll see what I mean.
    Now let's bring his eyebrows into the picture:

    As Sonic goes from his resting face to his "attitude" face, his brows come down and break up the silhouette of his eyes as they furrow. This is the most common expression we see Sonic with, so it's how people imagine him when they think of him. Unfortunately, since his unfurrowed-brow face is seen nowhere near as often, people seem to have forgotten all the details mentioned above and instead think of Sonic's eyes as being some kind of amorphous white mass with an inexplicable cleft on top.
    Honestly, the whole idea that Sonic's eyes are somehow actually conjoined is such a weird case of fans taking a stylization feature way too literally.
     
    Anyway, I guess the real question is whether or not Sonic would look okay with his eyes touching in a live-action setting. I mean, it's a no-brainer he'd have them like that in an animated feature, but Paramount made things hard for themselves by going the live-action route. The crew's first attempt ignored this design challenge altogether by just giving him those weird quasi-human eyes, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he needs to have all forms of cartoonishness expunged from his design to look believable next to real-life humans. Another cartoon character with similarly-shaped eyes also made the questionable leap to live action a few years back. It was Woody Woodpecker, of all characters. How did he do?

    Well, cartoon Woody's eyes are basically touching each other, much like Sonic's. If you erased the line between them, you'd have pretty much the same thing.
    For his live action design, his eyes were pushed slightly farther apart, but were otherwise unchanged in size and shape, so they still feel like they belong to the same character.
    I get that using the Woody Woodpecker movie as a positive example is weird, but for all the flak that movie caught, Woody's design wasn't complained about much. When people found him unsettling, it had more to do with his psychopathic tendencies than anything visual.
    Does this mean that Sonic ought to take this approach? Well, I'm not going to say there's only one specific way to correctly adapt a cartoon character to live-action, but I think most of us would have vastly, vastly preferred a take like this to the one we got in the initial trailer.
  20. Fist Bump
    Domino reacted to Dr Ryan in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Fair play man... I've been playing these games since '91... I've been an obsessed fan ever since. Sonic's probably the main thing that led me to move to Japan... but I never though about this. It has blown my mind despite hiding in plain sight this whole time haha. He DOES have two eyes!! Holy shit!! Great post!
  21. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Syntax Speedway in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Indigo, as far as the eye discussion goes, you may be more on the money than you think. The whole "two eyes lodged together" thing isn't just a potential compromise, it's how Sonic's eyes are actually structured. I know that might sound weird, so let me pull some sprites from the Sonic 1 title screen.

    See how Sonic's eyelids are, despite touching each other, noticeably defined as separate objects? I know they aren't drawn like this in more recent depictions, but I think it's an important feature to note, since it shows us eye definition we usually wouldn't see.
    Now what happens when he opens them all the way?

    Okay, now there's no explicit separation between his left and right eyes as there was with his eyelids, but you can still make out the silhouette of two ovals touching each other. It's like they drew two cartoon eyes smooshed together and omitted the inner outlines. Try drawing an imaginary line between them and you'll see what I mean.
    Now let's bring his eyebrows into the picture:

    As Sonic goes from his resting face to his "attitude" face, his brows come down and break up the silhouette of his eyes as they furrow. This is the most common expression we see Sonic with, so it's how people imagine him when they think of him. Unfortunately, since his unfurrowed-brow face is seen nowhere near as often, people seem to have forgotten all the details mentioned above and instead think of Sonic's eyes as being some kind of amorphous white mass with an inexplicable cleft on top.
    Honestly, the whole idea that Sonic's eyes are somehow actually conjoined is such a weird case of fans taking a stylization feature way too literally.
     
    Anyway, I guess the real question is whether or not Sonic would look okay with his eyes touching in a live-action setting. I mean, it's a no-brainer he'd have them like that in an animated feature, but Paramount made things hard for themselves by going the live-action route. The crew's first attempt ignored this design challenge altogether by just giving him those weird quasi-human eyes, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he needs to have all forms of cartoonishness expunged from his design to look believable next to real-life humans. Another cartoon character with similarly-shaped eyes also made the questionable leap to live action a few years back. It was Woody Woodpecker, of all characters. How did he do?

    Well, cartoon Woody's eyes are basically touching each other, much like Sonic's. If you erased the line between them, you'd have pretty much the same thing.
    For his live action design, his eyes were pushed slightly farther apart, but were otherwise unchanged in size and shape, so they still feel like they belong to the same character.
    I get that using the Woody Woodpecker movie as a positive example is weird, but for all the flak that movie caught, Woody's design wasn't complained about much. When people found him unsettling, it had more to do with his psychopathic tendencies than anything visual.
    Does this mean that Sonic ought to take this approach? Well, I'm not going to say there's only one specific way to correctly adapt a cartoon character to live-action, but I think most of us would have vastly, vastly preferred a take like this to the one we got in the initial trailer.
  22. Thumbs Up
    Domino got a reaction from Dr Ryan in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Indigo, as far as the eye discussion goes, you may be more on the money than you think. The whole "two eyes lodged together" thing isn't just a potential compromise, it's how Sonic's eyes are actually structured. I know that might sound weird, so let me pull some sprites from the Sonic 1 title screen.

    See how Sonic's eyelids are, despite touching each other, noticeably defined as separate objects? I know they aren't drawn like this in more recent depictions, but I think it's an important feature to note, since it shows us eye definition we usually wouldn't see.
    Now what happens when he opens them all the way?

    Okay, now there's no explicit separation between his left and right eyes as there was with his eyelids, but you can still make out the silhouette of two ovals touching each other. It's like they drew two cartoon eyes smooshed together and omitted the inner outlines. Try drawing an imaginary line between them and you'll see what I mean.
    Now let's bring his eyebrows into the picture:

    As Sonic goes from his resting face to his "attitude" face, his brows come down and break up the silhouette of his eyes as they furrow. This is the most common expression we see Sonic with, so it's how people imagine him when they think of him. Unfortunately, since his unfurrowed-brow face is seen nowhere near as often, people seem to have forgotten all the details mentioned above and instead think of Sonic's eyes as being some kind of amorphous white mass with an inexplicable cleft on top.
    Honestly, the whole idea that Sonic's eyes are somehow actually conjoined is such a weird case of fans taking a stylization feature way too literally.
     
    Anyway, I guess the real question is whether or not Sonic would look okay with his eyes touching in a live-action setting. I mean, it's a no-brainer he'd have them like that in an animated feature, but Paramount made things hard for themselves by going the live-action route. The crew's first attempt ignored this design challenge altogether by just giving him those weird quasi-human eyes, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he needs to have all forms of cartoonishness expunged from his design to look believable next to real-life humans. Another cartoon character with similarly-shaped eyes also made the questionable leap to live action a few years back. It was Woody Woodpecker, of all characters. How did he do?

    Well, cartoon Woody's eyes are basically touching each other, much like Sonic's. If you erased the line between them, you'd have pretty much the same thing.
    For his live action design, his eyes were pushed slightly farther apart, but were otherwise unchanged in size and shape, so they still feel like they belong to the same character.
    I get that using the Woody Woodpecker movie as a positive example is weird, but for all the flak that movie caught, Woody's design wasn't complained about much. When people found him unsettling, it had more to do with his psychopathic tendencies than anything visual.
    Does this mean that Sonic ought to take this approach? Well, I'm not going to say there's only one specific way to correctly adapt a cartoon character to live-action, but I think most of us would have vastly, vastly preferred a take like this to the one we got in the initial trailer.
  23. Fist Bump
    Domino got a reaction from Nestor in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Indigo, as far as the eye discussion goes, you may be more on the money than you think. The whole "two eyes lodged together" thing isn't just a potential compromise, it's how Sonic's eyes are actually structured. I know that might sound weird, so let me pull some sprites from the Sonic 1 title screen.

    See how Sonic's eyelids are, despite touching each other, noticeably defined as separate objects? I know they aren't drawn like this in more recent depictions, but I think it's an important feature to note, since it shows us eye definition we usually wouldn't see.
    Now what happens when he opens them all the way?

    Okay, now there's no explicit separation between his left and right eyes as there was with his eyelids, but you can still make out the silhouette of two ovals touching each other. It's like they drew two cartoon eyes smooshed together and omitted the inner outlines. Try drawing an imaginary line between them and you'll see what I mean.
    Now let's bring his eyebrows into the picture:

    As Sonic goes from his resting face to his "attitude" face, his brows come down and break up the silhouette of his eyes as they furrow. This is the most common expression we see Sonic with, so it's how people imagine him when they think of him. Unfortunately, since his unfurrowed-brow face is seen nowhere near as often, people seem to have forgotten all the details mentioned above and instead think of Sonic's eyes as being some kind of amorphous white mass with an inexplicable cleft on top.
    Honestly, the whole idea that Sonic's eyes are somehow actually conjoined is such a weird case of fans taking a stylization feature way too literally.
     
    Anyway, I guess the real question is whether or not Sonic would look okay with his eyes touching in a live-action setting. I mean, it's a no-brainer he'd have them like that in an animated feature, but Paramount made things hard for themselves by going the live-action route. The crew's first attempt ignored this design challenge altogether by just giving him those weird quasi-human eyes, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he needs to have all forms of cartoonishness expunged from his design to look believable next to real-life humans. Another cartoon character with similarly-shaped eyes also made the questionable leap to live action a few years back. It was Woody Woodpecker, of all characters. How did he do?

    Well, cartoon Woody's eyes are basically touching each other, much like Sonic's. If you erased the line between them, you'd have pretty much the same thing.
    For his live action design, his eyes were pushed slightly farther apart, but were otherwise unchanged in size and shape, so they still feel like they belong to the same character.
    I get that using the Woody Woodpecker movie as a positive example is weird, but for all the flak that movie caught, Woody's design wasn't complained about much. When people found him unsettling, it had more to do with his psychopathic tendencies than anything visual.
    Does this mean that Sonic ought to take this approach? Well, I'm not going to say there's only one specific way to correctly adapt a cartoon character to live-action, but I think most of us would have vastly, vastly preferred a take like this to the one we got in the initial trailer.
  24. Fist Bump
    Domino reacted to Indigo Rush in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    I can't believe it's been staring at us this entire time. 
    Thanks for bringing this one up! I feel a little less ridiculous now.
  25. Fist Bump
    Domino got a reaction from MainJP in Sonic Live Action Movie Thread (Read OP for topic rules) "Trailer 2 on Page 482)   
    Indigo, as far as the eye discussion goes, you may be more on the money than you think. The whole "two eyes lodged together" thing isn't just a potential compromise, it's how Sonic's eyes are actually structured. I know that might sound weird, so let me pull some sprites from the Sonic 1 title screen.

    See how Sonic's eyelids are, despite touching each other, noticeably defined as separate objects? I know they aren't drawn like this in more recent depictions, but I think it's an important feature to note, since it shows us eye definition we usually wouldn't see.
    Now what happens when he opens them all the way?

    Okay, now there's no explicit separation between his left and right eyes as there was with his eyelids, but you can still make out the silhouette of two ovals touching each other. It's like they drew two cartoon eyes smooshed together and omitted the inner outlines. Try drawing an imaginary line between them and you'll see what I mean.
    Now let's bring his eyebrows into the picture:

    As Sonic goes from his resting face to his "attitude" face, his brows come down and break up the silhouette of his eyes as they furrow. This is the most common expression we see Sonic with, so it's how people imagine him when they think of him. Unfortunately, since his unfurrowed-brow face is seen nowhere near as often, people seem to have forgotten all the details mentioned above and instead think of Sonic's eyes as being some kind of amorphous white mass with an inexplicable cleft on top.
    Honestly, the whole idea that Sonic's eyes are somehow actually conjoined is such a weird case of fans taking a stylization feature way too literally.
     
    Anyway, I guess the real question is whether or not Sonic would look okay with his eyes touching in a live-action setting. I mean, it's a no-brainer he'd have them like that in an animated feature, but Paramount made things hard for themselves by going the live-action route. The crew's first attempt ignored this design challenge altogether by just giving him those weird quasi-human eyes, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he needs to have all forms of cartoonishness expunged from his design to look believable next to real-life humans. Another cartoon character with similarly-shaped eyes also made the questionable leap to live action a few years back. It was Woody Woodpecker, of all characters. How did he do?

    Well, cartoon Woody's eyes are basically touching each other, much like Sonic's. If you erased the line between them, you'd have pretty much the same thing.
    For his live action design, his eyes were pushed slightly farther apart, but were otherwise unchanged in size and shape, so they still feel like they belong to the same character.
    I get that using the Woody Woodpecker movie as a positive example is weird, but for all the flak that movie caught, Woody's design wasn't complained about much. When people found him unsettling, it had more to do with his psychopathic tendencies than anything visual.
    Does this mean that Sonic ought to take this approach? Well, I'm not going to say there's only one specific way to correctly adapt a cartoon character to live-action, but I think most of us would have vastly, vastly preferred a take like this to the one we got in the initial trailer.
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