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About ChaddyFant9me

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  1. Nobody said it was exempt from criticism though... Those things being issues are precisely its been stated that adding in the FF is the last complication the main series needs right now. It means they’re part of the reason why many people criticize and dump on the main series, due to Sega constantly shoving those in our faces when not a lot of people asked for them (and repeat: Classic Sonic in the 3D titles after Generations.). Like SatAM, the main series is not exempt from criticism just because it’s the main series. Well if no one is telling you why, I’ll give my two cents. Whats in it for the main continuity? How about world development, especially after Sega claims there’s two separate worlds, which just seems to be used as an excuse to not use the human worlds again, where most of the lore takes place. And the echidna lore seems to not be touch upon again due to a certain former writer of the Archie Sonic series who thinks he own the monopoly of echidnas (well, technological echidnas but Sega did it first, but try telling him that.) Because of this, we’re left with one empty world many didn’t care for in Forces. What I mean by empty is that there’s no established culture other than generic animal people. Hell, Sega is too afraid to put a name in the world. They’re so afraid to establish this world or any of these characters. As an aside, i just want to thank you for at least genuinely engaging in the conversation in good faith. Its refreshing to say the least. Dont get me started with the teo worlds nonsense. Nobody eho actually cares about ththe main continuity respects it and the sooner we get SEGA to appologize for it the better... All the elements that make up the continuity of the past games supposedly exists in the series still. It isnt reboot. It isn't an empty world at all. Whether or not they could with or without Sally isnt my concern. My concern is whether that would be a good thing. They can expand the canon in pretty much whatever way they want and ill be on board with it so long as it doesnt radically contradict or undermine the roles and intent of the existing games' continuity. Up til maaaybe Unleashed, there was pretty much nothing in the series I didnt accept with open arms. Im reaaaallly not that picky. Th problem with introducing Sally and the FF isnt whether or not you could chart a map, slap the words "Acorn Kingdom" on stretch of land on it and call it a day or not. Its the actual implementation of said characters into the series and their function that concerns me. They just wouldnt serve a purpose. If the desire is just to have the games SAY they exist in the game world only to never actually do anything with them, I cant help but wonder what the practical purpose actually is? For the record, like i said b4 this isnt me talking about IDW or whatever else. Im strictly talking about the main game continuity
  2. I also think people are being too harsh on the bosses. The Sonic series have always had a problem with boss fights in general, in part due to the ring system and them being damageable at any point. Its really not east to have an engaging boss while also making it a fair challenge in these games and for what its worth, i feel Mania overall does an exellent job in that regard. Id say the thing that should be done then is allow players to play against the boss immediatly from a game over instead of having to do the zone again. That seems plenty reasonable to me. I absolutely agree with this. In general, i feel we in the Sonic fanbase are often too ignorant of how unconventional alot of the controls and mechanics to these games actually are to people outside of the bubble. Things like the physics and rolling in the Classics homing attack chain in the Adventure or level of reflexes in the Boost games are feats of uncomprehensible mastery to your average platformer fan. And this also applies with inter-crossover between the games as well. I feel too often we take these things for granted in an era where being expected to get accustomed to things is largely treated as a flaw. No disagreements there. I mean, at least for me it comes down to how manageable the jank actually is as opposed to just being less good than other parts, but i get what you mean. Isnt that kind of how incentive systems work though? Your reward for getting over a challenge is the opportunity to experience whats next. There is a level of acccomplishment there. While i am not unsympathetic to what you are saying, i feel there is a point where one must accept that videogames arent passive media and that part of the experiencing of a game is overcoming the chalenges it provides as opposed to it being a flaw of the media that the later parts werent accessible with minimal effort. Compromises can definitely be made, but i worry deeply in regards to where the line of reasoning you set up here inevitably leads. On that note, what was wrong with The EggSpider? I thought it was one of the best bosses in the game. 😕 Thats....not how that happened. Mania was going to be just 4 zones until Iizuka came in and provided them with assets to make it into a full game. Also, the insults towards the man are really uncalled for. I agree with the Press Garden Miniboss, as well as the Oil Ocean crusher miniboss. That was just bs. Mirage Saloon miniboss was also jank.
  3. Half of a conversation is the opposing point of view. You cant have a conversation about how they could be integrated while silencing people who express why it wouldnt. Especially when people ask how it would work only to be told "that isnt our jobs". You are just creating an echo chamber at that point. It absolutely is a double standard by the definition of the term, and until i see open crapping on the main continuity chastized with equal scrutiny, I will continue to address it for what it is. Not sure what your point is supposed to be. Whats in it for the main continuity? What does introducing them to games do to justify said compromises? Would those compromises even be worth it? This is the conversation i and others have been trying to have, only to be accused of being SatAM haters and being immediately accused of being a troll. The reality is, the main continuity doesnt have an obligation to placate and accomodate the SatAM one. It just doesn't. Thus it is on the advocates of the FF to sell the idea, not the other way around.
  4. Why is it that everyone in this topic is allowed to dump on the main continuity and openly declare the SatAM one superior and deserving of replacing the main one but someone expresses anything resembling a less than positive opinion of it or the idea of having it invade thr main continuity is crossing a line? Why the double standard?
  5. By asking it to effectively become SatAM, that is what is being asked on the opposing side, just into something they personally like at the expense of those actually invested in the main continuity. It isn't "pidgeon holding" to say lines have to be drawn somewhere and while bending those lines is encouraged, breaking them on a whim destroys its integrity. And it is criticized. Again, just because something happens doesnt make it good, nor justified. This is silly reasoning. A lot of games have gore and graphic violence, does that mean Sonic should have it to? Cmon now. You arent engaging with the points I brought up in good faith whatsoever if you are going to dishonestly present them as anything of the sort. Except its a compromise that doesnt need to be made nor is there any real merit to making it. Seriously. What actual benefit to the series would it actually provide? Outside of placating the subset of the fanbase that seeks it happening as some form of validation of the continuity as "legitimate"? Its not a "potential risk" its just a categorically damaging affair. I'd argue the Sonic series only ever became incomprehensible and inconsistent in very recent times, and that the claims of its longtime inconsistency largely stem from people introduced to the series via alternate continuities more than anything (*raises hand) having misplaced expectations as a result. Because really the main continuity isnt at all hard to follow from Sonic 1 to Generations. Ignoring the fact that the series has always had DBZ and StarWars parallels, why are you pretending this is about the Freedom Fighters when its been made explicitly clear that the main continuity has enough problems as is? This isn't some vendetta against SatAM. The series has already done tons of things people don't like. Their presence doesnt suddenly open the floodgates for any inane idea all of a sudden. Thats ridiculous.
  6. See, the problem with this argument is it starts to break down once you start applying it to anything else. At what point does the theoretical or psychological etfect a mechanic have begin and cease to matter? So much of the point of games in general is the feeling you get from the expreience of playing it. By the same token, why should Sonic not just be invincible instead of having the ring system? You are just gonna pick up another ring anyway, right? Its incremental dents via this line of reasoning that, to me at least has lead to the gradual dumbing down of games, if not the medium in general. Too often people are quick to justify any change that ultimately makes something significantly easier and or grinds off its edges by calling it a QoL change, to the point that , at least to me, the definition of the term has become much more wide and nebulous than it once was. But Sonic games are fundementally designed with arcade logic in mind tho.
  7. Im still waiting for you to tell me where i expressed open hatred to SatAM. Nobody thinks the main canon is BEYOND fixing if they actually care about said continuity. Your favorite toy canbget damaged but that doesnt mean you suddenly stop cating about it, nor does it justify someone coming along and throwing it in the trash to make room for theirs. Also, SatAM doesnt use a lot of the same concepts at all, and what base concepts it does you, it does so in completelt different ways and for conpletely different reasons with completely different intent. Sonic doesnt use rings from his uncle to spin. Robots arent citizens that get transformed into robots. Eggman isnt discriminatory to animal characters, nor is he truing to usurp dome throne. Sonic isnt a freedom fighter working in an organisation. By all metrics, the only thing that is compatible is that Sonic is in itm Humor me. Give a one shot of a theoretical plot that would actually justify going to different locations within the context of Sally's kingdom while also having sonic have to interact with them. I really dont it how you could. The last time we had Sonic bogged doen by having to go to some kingfom and chase after a princess, the game had to constantly leave the kingdom to have different environments, only for the story to have Sonic do nothing but go back and forth between the two doing nothing of interest as a result. And everyone hated it. And now you have to awkwardly shoehorn Sonic into his SatAM role that doesnt make sense for the character, let alone with the presence of the existing cast who already poised to back him up whetyer he wants it or not. How do you justify Sonic giving a damrn about the Freedom Fighters and actually having to work with them, let alone in absence of the existing cast? When did this become a contest of whose fave character gets to be in a game? For the record, my fave character is actually Sonic, so yes im sure he will be in the next Sonic game. Beyond tha5, my second fave character is Omega, who i quite frankly DO NOT WANT in every Sonic game. He doesnt need to be. He is much better served as a compliment to Shadow. But here's my point manifested. You arent concerned with the coherence of their presence, just whether or not they get to be in a game, the consequences be damned, and it shows how little you care about the existig continuity as opposed to the SatAm/Archie one. What does being free spirited have to do with being closeminded or not? Last I checked, Sonic's attitude was that of someone who doesnt give in or compromise if anything. Thats some very interesting selective wording there. Anyway, what you are describing is called inconsistent writing, and its viewed as a bad thing. That isnt really up for debate or personal interpretation. Soemthing happening a lot doesnt suddenly make it okay. Thats how you become complacent with subpar works and a medium loses integrity. Im not asking that the games be some iron clad air tight masterpiece of writing because quite frankly its never been. But i do not see it as reasonable for it to be completely mangled on a dime to appease a group who seeemingly do not care about the continuity in the first place, or at least not enough to respect its right to integrity, in favor if their own.
  8. Where have I expressed open resentment of SatAM? I even CALLED OUT someone for doing so, and took the time to express my symparhy towards fans of said continuity. But as you've demonstrated, the mere act of expressing dissent towards the idea of their intergration into the games is open hate apparantly. Its insufferable. Several entire Mystical Islands and an entire planet is much more ground to span over and leaves much more room to have different environments than a single kingdom. They also were Genesis games with that as a conceit for the limited story presentation. Let's not kid ourselves. It not only restricts environment, but room to tell a story beyond the scope of the FF. And I really dont care, just like I didnt care that Boom was made into its own thing. What I care about is taking things from one and using it to surplant the other, which you've openly expressed content towards doing. Its scathing.
  9. This says alot about yout aproach to this conversation... You conceptualise any misgivings or concerns about the idea as gaslighting from the jump, refusing to engage with the conversation at all. Given you've openly stated you would rather the games just become like the comics and believe they would be better off for it, this is not surprising. Thats not hooe things work. The reason that alternate dimensions work is because it alloes things to be compartmentalised and easily ignored. If the Freedom Fighters exist in the game continuity, we have to consistently wonder what they are doing if Eggman isnt onstantly attacking them, or what they are doing while Eggman is foing other things. Eggman himself has to be bent i to a pretzel to justify giving a darn about the freedom fighters, and the established cast need to be dumbed down if not outright ignored to allow the FF room to breath and matter. Whatsmore is they inhibit the ability to have interesting environemnts for levels and such as their conflict would be restricted to a small issolated area. It is disingenuous to claim they would create no complications at all, let alone less just because weve had extra dimensional affairs in the series, when the context behind each scenario is more relevant than the form it resides in. But in order for them to function they have to be given an unreasonable amount of attention. Otherwise it feels like they are simply being shoehorned in just to claim they are in the game continuity, as if that is some kind.of validation or accomplishment in of itself. The thing about characters in the main continuity is they either bring something to the table or compliment existing characters in some form. The FF dont do that. They instead suck energy and attention on to themselves and away from otger areas in order to justiy their presence.. and this is saying something given the existing cast is often already subject to either being shoehorned where they dont belong or wrongfully neglected.
  10. Putting your...hottakes on SatAM aside, its very simple. AoStH, Underground and from my understanding, Sonic the Comic were more in line structurally and/or conceptually with the games than SatAM was, which by and large is its own thing all together and and is so far removed from the games, its incompatible. This creates a problem because unlike Fleetway fans, there isnt anywhere for SatAM fans to actually go to get more of what they want, and the effective termination of them from the comics has only made it worse for these fans.
  11. How is this an argument in favor of it though? Its effectly saying "well your series is already broke so who cares if it makes you upset, at least we get what WE want". People who are invested in the games continuity regularly express desire to get it back on track and this decision is effectively telling them they are all wrong for it, and is incredibly callous as a result. I personally do not have any reservations in regards to their presence in the comics. Have at it, as far as I see it. That sounds pretty OOC for Eggman. Give him a real reason to want to invade the kingdom. Make em have a powerful relic or something that he wants to use for an evil scheme. The main game continuity, and from what I can tell, the IDW comics, dont have this weird racial divide between the Animal characters and the humans that SatAM and Archie comics had. Everyone are just people. There is no delineation. Eggman wouldnt randomly have this vendetta against a guy just because he's an animal character. Im noticing a suspicious lack of any of the actual game cast here, or any relation to the main continuity for the matter, but I digress. Given Tails is shown to be able to reverse the process the Zeti did quite easily, you'd have to establish that Bunnie likes the upgrades and decided to keep em. Also, wouldn't it make more sense for Sally to actually be wrong for once in this situation? In this type of character arc, the logical thing would be for her to become disallusioned with Sonic only to get herself in trouble when she tries to handle everything by herself so rigidly, then have Sonic come in when she gets in trouble due to her hubris. Sonic would then come and tell her they need to work together in the situation and Sally admits Sonic has a point. Sally learns that sometimes you have to go with your gut and act on how ya feels, remembering it was the thing that spurred her to take charge to begin with. They stop Egghead, you get the picture. One of the things people, especially in this topic constantly menstion is how annoying the "Sally can never be wrong" attitude in the dynamic is. Id personally like this to be a break from that if it theoretically happened at all. Allow Sally to be fallible and grow. This doesnt line up. We were told Metal Sonic was undergoeing his upgrades during forces in IDW, and that he took control immediately after the Docwhen missing and sent out search parties for him while also building up an assault fleet for Angel Island. In Virus saga, i dont think its really possible to have em participate meaningfully. They would have to very quickly and sloppily get fodderized by the zombots and effectively dusted under the rug for the arc, which..okay, If thats what you want, but i dunno if most people would. Even then, this setup leaves no room for the actual FF besides Sally to do anything, which... i dont care either way but I also think fans would be disapointed.
  12. But at that point you arent engaginng in the texture of the conversation though. If one truly believes that a given thing could and should work, then it goes without saying that they should be able to give examples of how it could be done. The assertion makes no sense otherwise and it becomes evident the claim isn't substantiated by anything. The Freedom Fighters and what makes them them is far too rigid to be implemented into the main continuity without massively derailing it and usurping the functions of characters we already have. It comes off as wanting them in for the sake of it, as if it "validates their existence more" as opposed to actually wanting them in while maintaining their integrity, or because they would actually bring something worthwhile to the main game continuity. This isnt comparable for reasons that were brought up in this topic already. The Chaotix only work because there was so little to them in the first place. So much so that until we got info about mandates and such recently, most people didnt even know Knuckles' Chaotix wasnt canon and that they were rebooted at all. All the relevant elements of the Chaotix were preserved and simply added and elaborated upon in Heroes as opposed to having to radically change them to the point they effectively become different characters with a similar character model/sprite, something I feel still wouldnt work anyway because the Freedom Fighters don't work unless their a package deal. The Chaotix also fulfilled a niche that wasnt covered in the series already, as the bumbling "3man band" akin to Team Rocket you see in a lot of anime. As for Spinball, Sonic Team didnt even make that game, and it only further exemplifies my point since all the actual game chatacters are conspicuously missing. SpinBall was very clearly made by STI without the feedback of the original devs, and is clearly based on the AoStH/SatAm continuity by extension, and one need only look at said continuity to see how it affects the presence of the games actual main cast. Thats...not how consequences work. We already know what it is. Nothing happens. You are trying to pull a "no, you" here and it isnt really working. Second, yes i very much HAVE considered it. I have over the course of a decade which is why i am confident in saying it wouldnt work. You'd have an easier time implementing Scratch & Grounder, or Sonia and Manic into the main game continuity than the FF because unlike them, The FFs entire existence is too densly informed by the context of their series, one which is designed around what is largely a context far far divorced from the main context of the games. Sally needs a group to be a leader, she needs a kingdom to be the heir to, she needs a rebelious blue hedgehog to constantly have to keep in check, and she needs an insurmountable foe to fight. The only real way ive ever thought of that you could implement them in, is via AU shenanigans to make em fish out of water. Have the story be about them being warped to the main continuity and by the end they get sent back, and focus on Sally coming to terms with the difference between her AU and the games, and have it be a point of relfection for her when she and her group get sent home. Personally, I would be good with that, but i can already hear the groans from people that hate that kind of thing. Now, Im all for being proven wrong, but that would require actually providing examples of how it could work. Thats...not how apathy works. If i didnt care, i just wouldnt have posted. This topic has already throroughly gone over why it wouldnt work though. The result has simply been FF fans calling people meanies and telling them to "stop being haters" under their breath for daring to disagree, and im.not gonna lie it was paingul to watch/read.
  13. Excuse me? Is this how people typically behave here? My god. I make a new account a like a week or 2 ago and suddenly im a troll just for being engaging in conversation? Check my post history for petes sake. This behavior all but reasserts my point. Its just a cabal shutting down all dissent, more or less bullying users that dare express concerns at the proposition in an attept at creating an echo chamber.
  14. I'm gonna be frank. I find it rather telling that the people that seem to insist the freedom fighters will work just fine seem completely uninterested in providing a means by which they can without compromising the entire structure of the series and continuity, if not being completely apathetic to said consequences all together, in a way I can't help but feel is utterly disrespectful.
  15. I'd be like saying we need to remove Silver being from the future so we can have him in every game. it makes no sense. Heck, i'd argue doing that to Knuckles is worse since so much of his character development comes from his duty as guardian.
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