RK64

Really? Huh... That makes sense. And... I read that tweet too. What the f***? You are really holding things back due to a day-one patch? People PLAYED through the entire game and I saw no issues with what I watched. Sigh.... Edit: Has to do with the story I think. The Shadow DLC might answer questions/plot holes the main-game didn't cover.

From experience, SEGA hates giving out review copies for Sonic titles. I asked for Boom: Fire and Ice when writing for 3WIREL and they never sent me a copy, despite repeatedly asking Arron and SEGA's PR people. Arron responded, later on, saying no review copies were left, but I felt annoyed regardless. So this isn't shocking. They hate giving out review copies for Sonic titles or at the very least, SEGA's PR is mainly focused on Atlus and non-Sonic Team related games.

I did mention it, as to me, it's one of the best Modern Sonic levels (referred it as 'Eggman Fortress' level). It being fully 3D and really invoking the adventure series was nice. Can't wait to play that personally :).

Six Classic Levels? Huh... Guess one got cut mid-development, considering both Modern and Avatar have seven levels. I think it's a solid amount of content personally due to the extra paths you can take in the Classic and Avatar stages, Modern's having fun speed-funning potential and the various Ex stages to unlock. Also, the Shadow DLC comes with three brand new levels + playable in ten modern levels (so that includes bosses seemingly....). Between all of that, it's actually a bit meatier then Colors. It's not bad game-length, a game almost consistently in the modern style (also, those tag-team levels are quite expansive, at least the Metropolis one is). Really, the only sticking point is that Modern Sonic is the most lacking design wise. Avatar mixes 2D and 3D well while Classic is surprisingly decent level design wise. It's Modern that's lacking the most level design wise. The only interesting Modern Levels are his Death Egg, Eggman Fortress and maybe Chemical Plant. Everything else is very linear and well, that's fine. But I wish the level design took more notes from Generations.

I've been looking all over for a stream link and couldn't find anything.... Hopefully someone is recording it and putting it on YouTube later.

Can anyone give me a link? Really wanted to see this in action. From what I hear, it sounds really promising.

Any more video footage of the live stream? Can't find it after SEGA took it down :(.

I watched this when it was released and...it looks so bland. When I think of a Casino Forest, I'm picturing trees that fling you around massive pinball tables mixed-in with nature. Loops mixing and matching natural Earth and neon colors. Pinball tables looking slightly rusty and worn down. Buildings in the background being brand new but covered with thick jungles. Heck, I could see some animals playing with leftover casino coins in the background. This is a stage concept that could be really fresh and fun! ... So why does it look so lifeless and generic? This zone (Classic's take at least) really feels as if they slapped together the one Casino stage from Lost World with that same game's 'Silent Forest Zone'. It doesn't look very original at all outside of the concept and...that sucks. Level design looks 'meh' but I'm with Roger regarding WHY Classics levels are so boring; they are purposely making them that way to make it 'easy' for casual sonic players. But um...why? If you thought Classic was unappealing for people, just let him chill in Sonic Mania and focus Forces squarely on the Modern and Avatar gameplay. Forces continue to baffle me and I'm just hoping it will be an okay game in the end. At least Modern's levels will be fun and I sorta like what I've seen from the Avatar footage.

The bolded confuses me greatly. We KNEW since day-zero Mania was at the very least, was going to be good. Taxman, Stealth and ProgodaWest games are great developers with DOCUMENTED HISTORY with 2D Sonic. From Taxman and Stealth's fan projects too ProdogdaWest having former Sonic 2 HD developers on board, experienced people WORKED with Sonic before Mania started production. It was a project made by the fans, for the fans. Sonic Team has very little trust currently. I loved Colors and Generations...but that was seven years ago. They put out Lost World which was very mixed and did NOTHING to help Rise of Lyric be a passable game (it's crap but trying to be nice here). Sonic Team has alot to prove, with Forces just not winning people over. If it was strictly Sonic and Avatar, people wouldn't be so down I think. But with Classic returning and the idea of older zones coming back...we are getting Generations 2. People don't WANT a Generations 2. They want a Modern Sonic that perfects the Boost formula and stands on it's own for once. Instead, it's yet again shackled to a 'gimmick'. The past two (Wisps for Colors and Classic for Generations) were well done, so it's not a problem. But pulling the same trick for the third time isn't going to work anymore. Forces could be and I really hope it's a fantastic game. But people aren't convened, so when people are like 'Oh, it looks bad', it's not coming from a place of malice.

Generations was released in 2011. That was, as of this post, just about six (nearly seven) years ago. Since Generations release, the only really solid/good Sonic games are the following: Sonic Racing Transformed (Spin-Off), Sonic 4 Episode II (Surrounded with the toxicity that Ep. I formed) and Boom Fire & Ice (Solid Platformer soiled by Rise of Lyric's release). Since than we had meh (Lost World) to downright awful games (Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric). Of COURSE critics are going to think 'Sonic Sucks' and the gaming community too, as SEGA horribly managed Sonic post 2012. The whole 'Sonic Sucks' message coming out was ironic, as it was spreading like wild fire during 2016, the same year Mania and Forces was officially announced. Sonic has and will always be, a poster child for being picked on and teased...but SEGA allowed this to happen. Colors and Generations ARE good to great games...but the aren't amazing. Both suffer from issues that drag them down a bit. I love Unleashed and 'personally' consider it great. But that game has many major issues holding it back (specifically the HD version). Point being, the era of 3D Sonic with the highest praise (Modern Era boost games) are just 'okay to great' from critics. Mania is on a whole other level though, with it honestly being an amazing game. While many 3D Sonic fans want that high level of critical reception too (I know I want that, as I grew up with 3D Sonic first and 2D Sonic later). But Sonic Team keeps fumbling at every turn, so it's hard to know if the next game is going to be good or not. That, in my book, is Sonic's biggest issue. The lack of consistent quality. We finally, FINALLY got that from the 2010-2012 period and I fucking loved that. Sonic was going to be respected again. People even thought Lost World was going to be better than Mario 3D World at one point! But here is the thing....Sonic Team dropped the ball and Big Red Button chucked that ball at everyone's faces with Rise of Lyric. Sonic before Mania's launch, was a joke. The series was on the verge of really DYING. Mania released and to my utter shock, everyone loves it. No, not just fans, critics, who hated Sonic for years, love it a lot too. Why? Because it's a damn great game. And the funny part? Sonic Team didn't even do that much outside of greenlight it. So the ball is now in Force's court. Will they get a slam dunk and start a string of quality that permeates across the entire series going forward? Or will they drop the ball and once more, Sonic is a joke? I sadly think the later, and that will be an issue for Sonic Team. But regarding this specific topic, people love Boost games (Colors and Generations) and really enjoyed them. But when you are fed meh and shit for a few years after that, it's hard to be super positive about Sonic.

The part of me that is hopeful for future Sonic games is screaming 'It will be a great game! Sold 80% and everything!' but the cynical part of me just sighs, expecting something just bearly passing over 65%. The game looks troubled, with a confused identity and Classic in particular looking very uninspired. The game will likely be critically panned, sparking SEGA to change internal structuring within Sonic Team to start producing 'great' 3D Sonic's. We just have to see, as we don't have enough to outright call the game shit just yet. We need to see more level footage, story cut-scenes and more hands-on previews before having a more solid answer on how good/okay/meh/etc Forces will end up being.

Remember that Studiopolis was the very first thing shown to Iszuka when the game was pitched as 'Sonic Discovery', so maybe that zone could show up in Forces. Also Press Garden has a shot, considering how Aaron commented how they spent a long time with Sonic Team discussing how the zone should look/feel.

I don't want many zones to return at all, if I'm being honest. We got that with Generations (3D) and Mania (2D). BUT, that doesn't mean I'm not open to the idea of zones returning. Here are some zone ideas (both original and remixed) I want to see. Green Hill: The Sand can be crystalized when boosting over it, so Modern's version of the Stage has Jungle Joyride elements. Classic's level (hopefully) get's re-worked to explore inside Green Hill's caves. Avatar's take on the stage is fine enough as is. Park Avenue: Stages seems fine enough for both Modern and Avatar, just didn't see Classic's take on the zone yet. Maybe tap into it's inner Crisis City Classic and have the stage feature interactive elements (the Death Egg Robots making platforms when 'punching into the screen', which Classic jumps across not unlike the Generations fight) Valley of Waves: Water zone that has Sonic and the crew exploring a nature reserve largely untouched by Eggman and Infinite. You explore underwater sections as all three characters, with Modern running around in 3D for underwater. The boost get's replaced with a special bubble shield, that get's refiled as you collect more rings, pushing you to be mindful of speed as you navigate mines and other hazards. Classic and Avatar's take mirrors something like Aquatic Ruin or Hydrocity Zone but with facing more of Eggman's forces. Maybe have Chaos call this his 'domain', with the water moving and shifting as you explore the stage. Planet Wisp: This should return or at least some form of Wisp factory. They ARE in Forces, so this could explain WHY. More metallic and a dangerous Eggman base through and full. Takes a lot from Eggmanland and Metropolis Zone in terms of structure and design for ALL characters. The hook Avatar has can be used to pull down bridges and objects (not unlike the Enerbeam) to get across tricky platforms. The elemental shields are a huge gimmick for Classic, with each one being used for something (Ex: Fire burns wooden platforms and nearby oil spills and Electric pushes you to walk upside down). Modern explores most of the forest area but ends up ending the stage with a fight with Infinite. Press Garden: Mania zone is featured in Forces, fully in 3D and the defactor 'ice' level. Sonic snowboards through a torn-up printing press, Classic deals with new gimmicks (running across flying papers) and Avatar tries to fight through waves of robots as he avoids getting frozen by ice. Music based on Act 2 of the stage but with a orchestra rock remix. I will think up of more stage ideas later :).

Sonic the Hedgehog is hands down one of the most diverse franchises in gaming's history...and that is both a good AND a bad thing. It leads to many different KINDS of games being made but it appeals to different groups. You have people that love the 2D Genesis games, love the 3D Adventure games, the 2D Rush and Advance series, The Modern Formula starting with Unleashed and even some that like the style of gameplay seen in Lost World. But when you have so many different styles for Sonic, you can't make everyone happy. Classic fans finally got their game with Mania while Modern fans are hopeful Forces doesn't suck. But Adventure fans are left cold, as the Modern formula lacks the 'feel' the Adventure games offered. If a Sonic Adventure 3 get's announced, people will be worried that the 'feel' those games offered might not return for example. The biggest issues with Sonic is that it casts a wide net and captured everyone. But not everyone wants to be in that specific net, they want their OWN net to call home. SEGA is somewhat trying this with Mania being for Classic and Forces being for Modern. The issue is been happening through for years and that is a problem. It's hard to fix something you really haven't bothered addressing for decades. Sonic is a series I personally love but I'm not shy to call out the crap when I see it. I grew up with the 3D games first and 2D games later. I enjoyed almost all of the series, having replayed every game in 2016 (mostly, couldn't play the Wii U ones due to not owning them). It just needs to be more focused and appeal to specific groups again.

Just have one solid tone with decent writing. That isn't asking for much honestly, so hopefully expecting THAT isn't to unrealistic. Sonic's story hasn't been good since Unleashed for me personally, so not holding my breath.