The Deleter

You're surprised?

That's a lot of fangames.

@Jovahexeon Megumin Academy Considering the trailer only showed off about 30, and the previous SAGEs I've seen have had more or less that same amount, yeah? This is way more than I was expecting. It's kinda insane.

No doubt we're getting an increase in the number of 2d fangames thanks to Mania's success.

fangame makers after mania came out

Me, 2 months ago: Maybe I should make a video where I play through all the SAGE games this year!

Me, now: aw hell no

They can’t really do that with consoles because then they’d fall way out of the price range their audience expects. We just gotta hope that more developers start actually utilizing PC hardware properly and stop only catering to consoles.

If you move away from homing attack chains and use wider platforms not having the stop on a dime homing attack becomes less of an issue. A "Stomp" move that cancels Sonic's momentum in the air might also come in handy here.

Issues like these though are why Sonic Team deserves a bit more credit than they get though tbh. It's clear to me with the Adventure games that they went through a lot of the struggles 3D fangames are going through now and went with solutions that made sense at the time. I feel like a lot of the fangames are headed toward a lot of the same solutions.

In a way Generations had the most elegant solution for this, in hindsight. While the average player only ever used the regular homing attack to defeat enemies, if you were to eschew the homing attack outright, you could bounce off a lot of enemies lined up specifically for that purpose, keeping most of your momentum while also getting higher air.

Yeah, most of it's 2D, so it doesn't really count that much, but there were a couple of instances in 3D like Crisis City and Sky Sanctuary where this was used as well. Overall just a really elegant solution to this sort of option, albeit limited

Edit: @Wraith yeah but wide platforms are boring :V

I wanna make tight environmental platforms and stage design more involved than just facing forwards; having both options opens up all the possibilities I want out of that, for me

Well then you'll have to concede the momentum based homing attack if you aren't willing to design levels around it imo. Whether the homing attack can be used for precision or not is a pretty important choice for Sonic's kit. 

It was always just one of those fun ideas that "sticks it" to Sonic team but doesn't have a ton of real practicality imo, so it's not necessary. 

One solution would be to have it cut some momentum so it can be used to slow down, and the reward for not using the Homing attack at all and bopping the enemies the old fashioned way is keeping ALL your momentum.

Agreed with wraith on this one, it can be frustrating to have momentum carry when the platforms are too small and unless you have some kind of safety nets for if the player misses the intended target (lower routes) it can feel a little cheap unless your given some example early on as to how it works. That said, I think wide platforms don't need to be incredibly wide when doing this, just enough room to allow for a decent margin of error on the players part so that if they are off by a bit they won't be punished for a minor slip up.

"Best case scenario is that this kind of mechanic would be a backbone for the entire game, and would be drilled into the player's head over and over again, but that just sounds like it'd feel inhibitive for a series like this tbh."

Considering how the HA is designed for players to do virtually everything in the 3D games I don't really see this as a problem. You use it to hit enemies on the ground and in the air. You use it (via air dash) to pick up speed as well as move around platforms. You use it to destroy item boxes. You use it to interact with basic Sonic game objects like springs, rails, and pulleys. Etc.

IMO the HA has already been the backbone of the 3D games as it is. Even in the Boost games where the core mechanic became the Boost, you'll be using the HA for almost any other advantage the Boost doesn't cover.

if it doesn't work in practice, it's the wrong answer, regardless of how good it might sound on paper. and while it's tempting to go for a "total control" solution, it's worth considering that gameplay is defined just as much by what you can't do as by what you can.

small platforms aren't a good fit for sonic regardless of how the homing attack works because he's a fast and relatively slippery character anyway. and considering how dull the standard homing attack chains are, i'd gladly ditch the stops-you-dead homing attack in favor of focusing on a momentum-preserving or at least forward-bouncing homing attack. like wraith said, if you feel it needs something to rein in his speed at times you could have a separate move like the stomp or a little double jump instead of overloading the homing attack.

Alright now I'm thinking about something like this: base speed has the default homing attack, and as you go up in speed, the less resistance you get, eventually reaching the same momentum based state for high speeds. It's not like the base speed Homing attack was that great anyway, since it didn't really do much else that the air dash couldn't do, the spindash is always available if people want to take enemies out with more momentum, and it practically eliminates the streamlining problem here.

I haven't tried this yet but it should be possible; just gotta code it to react dynamically to speed rather than the type of inputs that are used.

Agreed.

Prime 4 probably wasn't really properly in development when it was announced, much as Prime 3 wasn't when it was announced.

Pessimistic as it sounds I kind of expect it to be like a lot of sequels these days, an improvement on some of the things that the older games did without doing anything unique or truly groundbreaking to really making it stand out. It'll more than likely be a great game but it's not going to invoke the same feeling that people had playing those older games.

Personally speaking, I consider the Doom reboot more of what I want in a metroid prime game than the prime games themselves so the sequel has got some big shoes to fill for me.

Ideally Metroid Prime 4 would be the ultimate first person adventure because that's how I felt about the first game when I played it. The truth is a lot of games have been influenced by it in the past 10 years and Nintendo should be playing all of that stuff and doing research so they can deliver an immersive sim like nobody's ever seen. 

The reality of it though is that we're probably getting a modern take on the first game's ideas which is...good enough? It's fine. I'll take it. I'm starving here. 

it would help if we had gotten something besides a logo and the confirmation that sylux will appear

As long as you don't have a 19 frame delay.

Also, DBFZ is really fun. I'd play with you when it launches but I don't know if I'll buy it again for the Switch.

Lobby 3's full; maybe give lobby 4 a try?

Got it.

I’m waaaaaaaiting @The Deleter

Snagged a pro controller. Lessee how this goes now :V

RRRRIP ME

Alright, you’re still focusing on charging ki when I’m doing it, you shouldn’t so that. That’s your solid chance to punish me and land a combo.

Also, I’d recommend swapping out Vegeta and Trunks. Vegeta is somewhat underpowered while Trunks is incredibly combo based and more difficult to get to grips with as a beginner.

I can't, I can't reliably close the gap. The dash is barely working for me and that rush move keeps doing that slow ass float now for whatever reason :T

OHHHH 

I know what’s wrong. You might have the simple control layout on that completely fucks with inputs. 

cranky's advice :^)

You’re doing better. Also keep in mind to try mix supers into your attacks. If you tap the X button multiple times, it starts a combo that auto ends in a level one super (You saw it with my ult Gohan Super last match). Keep in mind to swap characters (hold the left shoulder buttons for whichever one you want) because you can regenerate health when they’re out of play.

I don't think I have the simple controls on. When a prompt came up I opted out of the easier control scheme for the default one, and I can't see anything in the options menu

Also this blocking stuff is throwing me for a loop because you want to move towards the player to get any hits in the first place, but that just leaves you immediately open to any combos. The training mode really doesn't make that all that clear, at least in this demo...

So far I'm just trying to get the stuff I learned to come out right, though, or remember it if I'm doing stuff wrong. Maybe I should practice a lot more than just a couple times over...

For blocking, always duck down. It won’t block everything but it’s more realible. 

At least I threw a rock at you well tho :V

@The Deleter

I do want you to keep in mind, please don’t get discouraged. I’ve been playing this game since it released on PS4, so I’m aware of the basics and controls and all that. For someone who’s just beginning the game, you’re still doing pretty good.

Anyways, this is my last.

@The Deleter 

actually scratch that, two more.

>"fighting games are DUM"

>its really just a big math equation

Just spam 236! GAAAHHH!

Alrighty, ggs 

What gets me is that every single time I think there's an opening, it's me rushing headlong into another combo, but when I try and learn and play defensively I'm left standing there like an idiot :V

Thanks for the matches, though! Definitely felt like I was getting the hang of it there.

Ryan, Deleter, are you guys up for more matches?

I can play.

@DiamondX I could play a few matches, yeah. You have the Switch beta, though? That's the only platform I have the game on at the moment

Yes, I do. I can play in a few minutes if you are up for it.

Alrighty. Which lobby/region?

You choose it. I can only play in around 10 minutes. Tell me which one and I'll come as soon as I can.

@DiamondX Alright, I'm in US east coast lobby 5. Password is 9001

I'm comming. Sorry to keep you waiting.

Expect some laggy matches though.

Ryan and I had a low connection as well dw

Nice one!

Also what the heck how do you do three ultimates in a row, wow

@DiamondX did you disconnect in the middle of that one?

Also where'd ya go lol

Nope, I had to go do something really quick and thought Black was gonna finish it.

Also, this is my last match. 

You were pretty good, but if you want some tips:

1. Don't ki charge. It's useless and it leaves you open.

2. A simple way to begin a combo is the following:

X-> Down-X -> Down-A -> Super Dash

3. Gohan's ultimate can be extended if you keep pressing the button for 2 more ki bars.

Alrighty, ggs! Those were some pretty intense matches, but I think I'm starting to hold my own now, yeah

Yeah, I've been charging the Ki to test how fast you can block out of it, but I just tested it out in the practice mode and nah, that's not a viable window to risk using. I did see the Ki rising pretty fast during our battles without using it, though; I'll have to figure out what causes that I guess

Can't test out what you mean with Gohan's ultimate,though; this practice mode is waaaay too limited for what it is tbh. I'll find out through trial and error as usual, I guess

Thanks for the tips, though!

I also feel the same for Ridley's trailer for having me hooked on him.

Yeah, beforehand K. Rool seemed more like a generic Bowser knockoff that was designated DK's archenemy, rather than him being a real foil to DK in the same way, say, Sonic and Eggman are. And I never really understood why people were so hell-bent on him being in Smash beyond "he's DK's Bowser".

His Smash trailer, especially his more animalistic nature, did more for him in my eyes than any other appearance up to this point (I mean, there was the cartoon, but almost everyone was practically a completely different character there).

I had the exact same thought. I've always liked K. Rool but he was very much a "Rare" character before. Ever since Donkey Kong Country Returns, Nintendo's been streamlining Donkey Kong's behavior and his world's tone to better match up with how they've envisioned the property. Watching K. Rool in this trailer opened my eyes as to why they've been straying away from the Kremlings and DK's extended cast - they just didn't fit the feel they've been wanting. But this is it, this K. Rool matches perfectly. He's no longer a pompous king that feels like a prototype for Gruntilda, he's a raw animal that just wants to beat the crap out of Donkey Kong because he feels like it. That's such a good fit for Donkey Kong.

Shadow the Hedgehog is the best bad game. It's full of ironic laughter and dumb shit, while I find Black Knight is full ironic frustration and regular shit. Enjoying bad games, whether you see them for what they are or because you're young and naive, can't be understated. Bad games can be utterly brilliant.

And on the subject of Black Knight itself, I really wanted to like the game. It's the kind of insane, left-field idea that really could have worked if someone knew what the heck they were doing.

from the moment i saw the cgi footage of him spinning with the sword, I had hope for that game. then the hope went away

I feel like BK would have been much better received if the controls were just buttons only. Hell, I'm convinced Sonic Team didn't even test it with motion controls, because it's pretty blatant that the whole game is just button presses with waggle poorly assigned to them, and out of the whole series it's the only entry that I can consider literally painful to play.

but what about free riders

i remember that people exhausted themselves with that game just to get that cutscene footage with the new voice actors at the time for us

...fair point, but I wasn't stupid enough to buy a Kinect to experience that for myself.

Anyone who was stupid enough to buy a Kinect to play Free Riders deserved everything they got.

Honestly didn't find Black Knight to control that badly. Had a solid time with it and still go back to it more than Secret Rings. Though, I wouldn't want another game like it, and never asked for it (or Secret Rings) to exist in the first place since despite enjoying each on varying levels, I recognize they aren't quite good games and put a bad mark on the franchise reputation for many.

I honestly never had a problem with black knights controls outside of things like the sword clashes (until I figured out I needed to stop swinging the wii-mote like a sword to get them to work), game plays fine otherwise.