The Deleter

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  1. > hears someone say "3D Sonic just doesn't work"

    But the biggest complaint about the original 2D games was that you could never see far enough ahead of yourself to react well enough at high speeds afdjaklhfmpj

    1. Josh

      Josh can make 2D sonic wide screen now when you couldn't before, the solution isn't automaticaly 3D

    2. Diogenes


      i mean I fully believe that 3d sonic can work but that's not really much of a refutation. that a 3d game would not have a certain problem that 2d games have doesn't mean that going 3d couldn't introduce whole new problems

      also thinking about it I'm not sure how much I buy into the argument that 3d can "fix" the problem of seeing things ahead of you. it can help, in some cases, but it also introduces problems with seeing around corners and hills, and smaller objects can be hard to identify from a distance.

    3. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      @Josh ur dead to me

      @Diogenes I know that, it's just the biggest limitation Sonic could ever have to his speed, not being able to see far ahead of himself, is automatically negated by simply being in a 3D space. Obviously with the boost games it's never really mattered, but in a classic-styled game, that amount of foresight would significantly change the way, and ability, players can play in the first place

      Enemies can't be simply hopped on and camera issues are a whole other can of worms to open, but the degree of advancement it gives Sonic right out of the gate, in theory... I just don't see why everyone so readily dismisses it as nothing worthwhile in the first place


    4. JezMM


      To be fair, one could argue that 2D Sonic games could eliminate that with an angled 2.5D visuals and slightly curved paths within that 3D space.  The 2.5D Sonic games have dabbled with this but never as a consistent camera angle.

    5. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      "Hey guys you know you could fix this if you just-"


      2D is all we need"


      Screw each and every one of you, I'm out >:T


      (if the camera angle reacted dynamically with the speed, I could get behind a 2.5D game, tho. Needs to be just as crazy as Unleashed/Wiileashed with its layer hopping, as well; loved that stuff)

    6. Josh


      The classic games already played with layers so that would probably still be there. It would just be even easier to define with 3D visuals. 


  2. So allegedly, scientists have extracted a new liquid with negative mass... And when you push it, it accelerates in the opposite direction. Or backwards.


  3. "Man, screw Nintendo; Metroid's dea-!"

    Nintendo: "New Prime and 2D Metroid coming your way, bby"

    "... Yeah, well, with Star Fox Zero, there's no way they're releasing another star fox any time soo-!"

    Nintendo: "Making the impossible happen just for you, honeyboo~"

    ".... Y-yeah, well, uh... Where's Mother... 3?"



    1. Forte-Metallix


      "Can we have the original formula for Paper Mario back, too?"

      Nintendo: tumblr_n6yu84pD1a1qa0n48o3_500.gif

    2. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      The complete heelturn makes that perfect

      "ey **** you, don't tell us what to do"

      This is now canon to the status

      Make it so

    3. Strickerx5


      i'd like to throw out the idea for a new kid icarus for switch if they're doing request

      or a port of uprising to the switch

      or an update to uprising to actually make the the second analog add on useful

      or just mentioning that they remember uprising...
      ...plz just something...




      buying sonic when


  4. I'm just going to think of the SNES mini as somewhat of a long term investment. Spend $80 on something I'm not fully wanting to buy altogether, (only want star fox 1, 2, and Yoshi) but then in the far future, selling it for $300 or more, as the market be :V

    You really can't go wrong with buying stuff rather than not in situations like these

  5. I almost want to bite the YouTube bullet and do a series on game design in Sonic Games, what with everyone making analysis vid's for everything else... But I also don't want to be stuck writing scripts for months, making a comprehensive timeline for it all for the sake of reference points throughout them, and making 40 min + videos for every game in the process

    That and I have absolutely zero credentials to do so, either; I'm just a guy who likes to dissect video games too much for my own good, lmao

    But that's also what all the other analysis guys say as well, so


    1. Ferno


      everyone who got somewhere with something started out as just a person who liked that thing

      you've gotta start somewhere

    2. Ratcicle King

      Ratcicle King

      It's worth a shot, you won't know the result without trying. Worst that can happen is it not being fun and you stop doing it.

    3. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      Yeah but youtube videos are also forever and I don't want to be amateurishly wrong :T

      I do reeeaaally want to try it, though

    4. Ferno


      the best part of any creative medium is that you can always come back later as your leveled-up future self and do a better job the next time. sometimes when I have an off day and make bad looking art for example, I always remind myself that I can always do better next time, and maybe even redraw the bad art later on if it's bothering me enough.

  6. > People now raving that this is what Star Fox deserves, compared to Zero

    ... They are aware that Zero is basically a revamped SF2, right??? :V

    1. Joseph Mello

      Joseph Mello

      Nah, Zero only has that chicken leg arwing from 2 and that's it.

      Zero is a Star Fox 64 2.0 3D.

    2. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      @Joseph Mello: and 3D space battles/planet dungeons

      And Fortuna

      And individual rival battles

      Along with a whoooole bunch of other stuff, but the problem is, 64 already remixed a lot of SF2 ideas, so it doesn't really appear to be a SF2 remake of that idea on the surface, rather than a 64 rehash.

      It's really a combination of them all, tbh. Even Star Fox 1 unique stuff is more prevalent in this than it was in 64.

  7. Classic Sonic is fascinating as a game design concept and a character that's a hedgehog, due to the rolling, but Modern Sonic will always be more appealing as an action hero imo, with how little he relies on rolling. I know nothing of worth has come out of it, but for the "fastest character alive" to work for his speed via rolling around with the physics, versus working for his speed by actuallypushing with his strength and speed of his legs, the latter is always going to seem more inherently "cool".

    Like Classic is the fastest character alive by sheer happenstance and using his rolling ability to his advantage, and without that move he's as slow as sin. Modern is a downright superhero with how much effort he puts into the title itself.

    Also this?



    I've always wanted a moment like this out of Modern Sonic in the official games

    Gimme that Shonen-esque limit breaking goodness pls

    1. Josh


      Classic Sonic still did this better lol 

      He's as much of an action hero as modern if not more so I never got this sentiment. 

    2. A cool hedgehog engine

      A cool hedgehog engine

      I agree with this. See status below.

    3. The Deleter

      The Deleter



      Under ideal circumstances, Modern would do the exact same. Still the first to do it actually in-game, though :Y

      I'm really talking about their status as "fastest thing alive", though, not their general athleticism. They're both good in that department imo

    4. Josh


      Tbh modern never curling up is one of the things I don't like. I think it makes more sense for him to use it to give himself a boost and using his feet when he needs to be more precise than it does literally boosting with his ki energy or whatever

    5. Strickerx5


      If I had only been playing the classic games I'd downright scoff at the idea that he's the fastest thing alive. The level design rarely ever calls for it. It's great for physics based platforming but for the whole "fastest thing alive" concept it just falls short.

      Though, then you have CD's opening cutscene where you clearly see they had that breakneck speed visualized well before the modern games so I think technical limitations had a bigger role to play than anything. I mean, replace the Genesis with a 360 or something back then and who knows what would've happened but that's a completely different topic.

    6. Josh


      Keep in mind that levels like chemical plant where Sonic moves so fast he leaves the camera behind used to blow people away back in the day. He WAS mindblowingly fast for the time period. 

    7. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      See that's partially why I think the uncurling mechanic from the two 3D fangames to be such an elegant compromise between the two, imo. When running downhill it makes more sense to curl up into a ball and let the physics do their work, (because even Sonic can't balance running downhill at his all I guess *shrugs*) but as soon as the terrain starts to flatten out, you uncurl to retain the speed you just gained, and even push yourself uphill with the momentum and your own two feet.

      It requires more effort than rolling, but at the same time since you can see in front of you in 3D, it's not an unfair task to ask of the player, either

    8. Strickerx5


      Exactly Josh, but the problem for me is those moments were very few and far between. Even in Sonic 2 which is often considered to be the most linear of the classics. It was great for when the industry began and ended with 2D platformers like Mario where that stop and go could be more pronounced but now (and even back then with that CD cutscene where we saw him moving like that) it's sort of underwhelming for me.

    9. Josh


      More than any Sonic game released after the classics feel like I'm pulling things off with my own skill so I still lean toward them.

    10. Celestia


      Yeah being able to uncurl from a roll (and that being ideal for flat planes and obviously going uphill) is how I'd handle it.

  8. Mario Odyssey will have 30-50+ moons per world, apparently:

    Makes sense, what with how many moons are collected in the demos themselves. Wonder what this means for the overall level count and moon requirement per level, then, considering the footage seemed to show really low amounts of moons required on the ship sail, from 8 to 16...

    1. JaidynReiman


      Based on the map its probably about 6 kingdoms. Unless that map was only a prototype teaser.

    2. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      There's a map already?!?

      ... 6 world's would be super disappointing if true, though. :\ 


    3. Celestia


      The courses are huge and they seem to change a decent amount as you progress, so I won't be too disappointed if there aren't a ton of kingdoms. That said, I hope there's at least one or two we haven't seen any hint of. (At the very least, there's two we've seen little of--the low poly aesthetic / food one and the one that's presumably Cappy's home kingdom--and I'm going to assume we haven't seen the final course yet.)

    4. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      I must be the only person on the planet who thinks the levels aren't that big, lmao. New Done City is basically the size of Bob om Battlefield, but maybe 2X bigger and more vertical. Everything past that is a drop-off point into the abyss.

      I mean they're big, bigger than previous Mario levels for sure, but not that big... Not big enough to justify there only being 6 world's, imo. Else this is going to be a very short game, especially with how easy it is to find these moons...

    5. Diogenes


      i think they've said there's more than just the six known kingdoms. looking at the map i can see at least two unlabeled but interesting looking places, specifically


      a mushroom shaped island near the top and a fractal (snowflake?) edged one near the middle


    6. JaidynReiman


      Yeah, in trailers we've seen 6 kingdoms. Two have barely been seen, though. Cap I think is the black and white location (it resembles Cappy) and Cascade has a location called Fossil Falls--probably where the giant T-Rex comes from.


      I do hope that Mushroom island is the Mushroom Kingdom. Heck, it'd be amazing if that's the final world of the game.

    7. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      Ah alright, from what I can tell there are at least 4 more levels guaranteed to happen, if notable landmasses are any indication. One for the unnamed ice continent in the center, one for the continent that looks to have a bottle on the side, one for the islands that appear to form a spray of water, and the unnamed mushroom island, yeah.

      So at the very least, 10 levels. That sounds better, but I still hope there's more than that, especially since the map shows one continent can have more than one level if it's big enough, and there's a bunch of nonspecific islands all around.

      14 would be really good in the end, and 16 would be absolutely perfect. But 10 is definitely an okay number as either the bare minimum or the end level count. Think I'll go on a media blackout because of that, though, tbh...

    8. JaidynReiman


      I don't think it guarantees 4 more worlds. Considering how big each one is, I think we'll have less than normal.

    9. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      Well I mean one or two of them could be just basic "map easter eggs", just making neat landmarks for the sake of making the map look "charming", but since the hat, triceratops, and mount volbono are all shaped after their main gimmicks or landmarks, I kinda find it hard to discount them when they follow the pattern like that. Every other smaller, normal island, sure, but not those islands. And those make up the four "guaranteed" continents, as a result. One is shaped like a bottle, one is shaped like a water spray, one is shaped like a mushroom, and the middle one has snowflakes surrounding it's borders.

      It's a pretty safe bet, I'd say.

      And then we have new donk, steam gardens, and the sand Kingdom all located on nonspecific continents with no shapes to their name, and sharing a continent already, meaning it isn't just the obvious silhouettes and single landmasses that can count for a level.

      Buuuut that's squarely in speculation station, so it's best just to expect the obvious 10 and roll with it, tbh.

  9. Ah alright, miscounted a prototype as one. Original Sonic 2 has 20, Taxman version has 21. In that case, CD is the longest game in its original form. In which case, yeah, it can surpass it, but only by one stage, lol. Doubt that's what made Iizuka bring it up unprovoked in the interview. It'd be really helpful if someone could get an official translation of this excerpt, though. At the moment, all we're going off of is a Google translate version.
  10. If we were to go by simply stages, Sonic 1 has 18, Sonic 2 has 22, Sonic 3 has 12, Sonic & K has 14, (both combined make 27) and Sonic CD has 21, not counting time variations. If each act in Mania has just 2 stages each, that means the minimum of 5 new, 5 old, and 1 final boss would maybe equal Sonic 2, but not surpass it. And again, that's not taking into account the 6:4 ratio still. ... Or the fact that they were basically saying they would keep most of the game a surprise at the start of the year, but now have spoiled a good 6 zones by now. >:V If it is bare minimum, I really find this bit odd, as saying you're going with a very conservative marketing strategy at one point and then basically revealing a good 2/3rds of your game, just doesn't make sense. If the game has a good deal more stages in both the retro lineup and the original stages, though, it makes a bit more sense... They've definitely revealed more than I thought they would with that attitude, though, regardless.
  11. Remember the proportion of 6:4 of Old stages vs. new that they've stated in the past, though. If we go by the absolute minimum amount of new zones (5) and promise of old zones (5) plus one on either side for the final area, that still doesn't fall in line with the 6:4 ratio that the game is supposed to have.
  12. EXjji1S.png

    Something is headed to Motobug and SSMB in 2 days! Be on the lookout for it!

    1. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      ... I posted that right when the clock hit 12...

      So technically 1 day now, but I don't have an image ready for that just yet, tbh :S

    2. PaulyBFromDa303


      I've been hearing about this 

  13. I don't care about Forces' narrative though :V That ship sailed a looooong time ago for me I care about the classic series being inhibited in whatever way if Taxman decides to continue working on them, be it through mandates, newly revamped Sonic Bibles, or otherwise. And I'm arguing for an equal output rate so that both kinds of fans get what they want. At the end of the day, I'm not the one truely arguing for consistency or nothing. I'm arguing for creative freedom for the games that they could create from here on out. Just that it also doesn't completely annihilate the canon by default, as well. There's just way too many benifits for a split timeline for me to ever really agree to be against it, tbh. I'll agree that them retconning the classic games out of existence would be the worst case scenario, though... Dunno how much worth it'd be to leave the concept of split timeliness behind or not, with how much of a lost cause the modern series is already with its handling of plot and such, though. I do think you're selling short how many problems an alternate timeline fixes for the canon, though, outside of Force's own writing flaws with the villains so far. Constantly having Classic popping in and out of the modern era without any repercussions on his timeline, not to mention endangering the games themselves to being non-canon in the process... And at the end of the day, dimension hopping >>> time travel in terms of consistant logic. Every time. Of course the obvious solution would be to stop using Classic Sonic in their modern games, but we all know that isn't exactly guaranteed to happen anytime soon :L
  14. Between the fact that they were already running into issues with Sonic 4 using the Modern design and Episode II mechanizing little planet but never getting resolved, I'd say there's a good reason to. Constantly trying to squash games inbetween one another is a recipe for things to go wrong consistantcy-wise, imo, and also really limits the risks that they could take with the series. You're basically asking any sequels to this direction to be in a time bubble with set rules, which... Isn't that appealing, gotta admit. Besides the fact that it frees up the classic series to have regular entries alongside the modern one, rather than either taking precedence and either ignoring the other in Modern's case, or potentially rebooting the series in favor of its aesthetic for Classic. Basically, the whole sub-series spiel that was talked about for Boom, except for the series everyone was actually asking for: Classic Sonic. And really, it isn't that complicated, imo. Both series have the same starting point, Generations comes and interferes with the timeline at around S3&K, and classic and modern split off into two seperate universes. It's not that hard to follow, especially compared to the alternative...
  15. A while back I thought that it might be a good idea to make classic Sonic in an alternate dimension for Mania's sake, but I never expected the idea to get so much flack, tbh... Though I was more saying "alternate dimension" as in "alternate timeline". I mean look at Rick and Morty; the entire premise is around multidimensional hopping, and yet they also visit alternate timeliness, as well. "Alternate dimension" just means a dimension either parallel or different to our own, after all, and that can apply to the infinite timeline theory, as well. That this classic Sonic is from an alternate dimension doesn't negate the fact that Classic Sonic exists, (at least unless Sega outright retconns it... :L) it means he's from an alternate dimension/timeline now. This could be the very Classic Sonic from Generations in fact, if they wanted it to be. What with Sonic and Eggman seeing the future for themselves, do you really think that time would pan out the exact same as this universe did, ala a time loop? Nah, they interfered something fierce, to the point where Eggman finds out he always loses. No way does it stay the same with them retaining their memories and all. And thus, a new timeline is born. The fact that this Sonic is from a different timeline is of no consequence unless they actually go through with saying "the first games never happened", (which would be just... Wow...) but on the side, it gives the series from Mania onwards a chance to grow into whatever may come from it. So I don't really see much of a problem with it, considering that, tbh. *shrug*