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The Deleter

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Posts posted by The Deleter


  1. I'm having trouble finding the source for several of the previously assumed development details, so I figure rather than making an entirely new topic for it, I'll just post these here for further documentation:

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    This excerpt from Iizuka is taken from the Forces OST notes, and mentions some slight details about Forces development: How the game had major changes and troubled future at certain points in the middle of development, which would seemingly back up the Sonic Wars and beta script situations, and how Iizuka relocated during the middle of development for the game back during March 2016.

    (another detail worth noting is that the overseas offices requested no vocal tracks in Sonic Generations lol)

    SonicForcesDevelopment01c-2.png

    https://tailschannel.com/sonic-the-hedgehog/studio/sonic-forces-development-details-uncovered/

    And in the translated article here, CGWorld reports on a development timeline that extends past the "one year of development" claims many cite the game's rough results on. Engine development consisted of one year of planning and research, and two years of production, while some of the main tools for the game production were developed for the explicit purpose of the simultaneous development of the game alongside it, with the article stating "Because game development was going on at the same time as engine development, it took a lot of trial and error on part of the designers to adapt to the new way of making things until the flow of production was fixed."

    Unclear which year the following sentence refers to, though.


  2. 41 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

    Might be a long stretch, but given how Sega does seem to pay attention to what the fans say to a certain degree, if you guys rage enough and tell Sega to get off the writers’ back on Shadow then they might get the message.

    Just a thought.

    Before that happens it's far more likely SEGA will lax off on the mandates themselves. They obviously brought them into play to standardize the characterizations of Shadow and whoever else across all branches of media, in a "Paper Mario can't have toads with different body designs" for the sake of series homogeny kind of way. Once they've got this, the TV show, the movies, and whatever else they have planned, they'll have accomplished what they set out to do in the first place in terms of brand consistency, and probably will back off from how strictly they demand portrayals. Look at Sonic X; they didn't have any problem with that series developing him further than what he was originally, even though he had to be exactly as he was in SA2 when he was introduced.


  3. 5 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    What kind of logic is this "It's ok to have shit writing versus boring writing", how about you work to have good writing? Or if you wanted character conflict, then maybe make it feel organic to their personalities and an actual part of the narrative. @Ryannumber1Santa already outlined how Ian was able to accomplish this  way back in Issue #6, so there's already precedent for it in this book. So no, there's literally no reason to force a conflict between characters just for the sake of having a conflict.  If you can't think of a believable reason for two characters to be opposed, then don't derail them just to do it.  That's the easiest way to devalue both characters to the audience. Derailing your characters just for the sake of the story is not how writing works. 

    There's nothing organic or interesting about how Shadow has been written; he's a jackass to people he has no particular reason to be towards, and he never learns his fucking lesson and keeps doing the same shit constantly. And no, I'm not going to accept it because you found him "boring" before, that's on you, and you don't fix that by assassinating his character. Just accept that maybe you just don't like the character for who he is and just move on. 

     

    And honestly, I'm kind of tired of this. So I'm gonna reserve judgement until the full issue is out and give Evan the benefit of the doubt. But my expectations are pretty low to be honest. 

    I disagree that it's shit writing. I disagree that it's derailing the character. And I especially disagree with it devaluing the character when it actually respects where he came from rather than the (head)canon that the fanbase has assigned his character. Not much else to say outside of that tbh.

    You don't have to accept that lmao but I certainly don't want to see the portrayal trampled for such a one-sided witch hunt that always happens in this comic/IDW Twitter.

    I did move on years after I knew the buddy buddy version of Shadow was here to stay due to fan demand. Now it's back and I'm perfectly fine with it lmao

    And yes, the full issue will have more moments that'll showcase Shadow. I doubt they'll all go over in the exact opposite manner as this line did, but it should be worth reading at least.


  4. 4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    Then what is the problem with just telling Sonic "I got this, you go handle the mansion"? Why does there need to be a conflict of any kind when there's nothing it adds to the story? Its a conflict for the sake of having a conflict, and that's not interesting in the slightest. 

    I disagree when that alternative you suggest is no different from the buddy-buddy, no problems, everyone gets along world that is modern Sonic storytelling where every character and their individual thoughts take a backseat to keeping the plot moving forwards. Forces was hella boring because all the characters were blank slates who agreed with each other on what to do. I'm not saying Shadow being brash and blunt like this is a writing masterpiece that adds a million times more intrigue to the story, but compared to just being another bit player who could be replaced with anyone else for the same effect? Sure it's more interesting lmao

    Though, again, that isn't exactly demanded of Shadow here. He could have said that and his IDW characterization would still be there to enjoy. I just, again, don't have much of a problem with it being there in the first place.


  5. 3 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    Yea, and he's willing to put his baggage aside to get things done as we literally saw in SA2. Why is it now suddenly a problem for him to cooperate when he's done so in the past?

    Because their end goals are no longer the same? They disagree on what needs to be done right then and there, and he went out of his way to say it. That's not baggage, that's a decision made off of differing perspectives and past contention in the comic.

    The decisions he makes may be inherently built off of that baggage, but that doesn't change the fact that those are still his decisions at the end of the day.


  6. Yeah I get the dislike for the moments like in the zombot arc. A lot of it can feel like it's contrived like that, and that's what you want to stray from when writing a story.

    Moments like these aren't comparable at all in my opinion, though. It's one line that has the same effect as a less prickley choice of words in synopsis, but falls on a distinct side of Shadow's portrayed disposition. Is it unlikable? Sure. Is it as offensive as the zombot example? Heeeeell no, and the fact that it's focused on, when again, we have Shadow going out of his way to catch Sonic as he's falling in the previous issue before this one, chastizing him in a less aggressive and more banter-driven manner for it. It's taking the microscope to a few select moments than the entire picture, and that's completely stupid. Why get hung up on one aspect of Shadow that's always been a part of him to the point where we unironically shout "VEGETA SHADOW" from the rooftops every time the previews drop?


  7. 16 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    Then what was the fucking point of helping Sonic save the planet if he still wasn't over his trauma. Because according to this logic, Shadow should have told Sonic "Fuck you, I got this" instead of helping him with the Final Hazard. 

    That's not my logic. And they were both planning on taking on Starline together until the distraction was used lol, not like Shadow cooperating with Sonic and his friends is unheard of in general

    His trauma is what gave him his cynical and distanced disposition (as well as his hate that fueled him yes lol) as compared to his curious/hopeful perspective before the ARK events, that's the only thing it factors into. He's always been a pretty introspective, existential guy tho lmao

    Spoiler

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    14 minutes ago, Wraith said:

     Heroes had him fight Sonic for basically no reason but I thought everyone agreed the team fights in Heroes were poorly conceived.  It's hard to nail him down in a game like Shadow but he mostly seems annoyed with Sonic's personality more than anything else. 06 and Forces would be at the tail end of his development and the outward aggression is basically gone by that point and replaced with pragmatism. I guess some people didn't like that and that's where the divide comes from? Like, they'd rather him be kind of a shit stirrer than 'boring'?

     

    Evan seems confident that she nailed it so I'll just wait and see.

    I definitely prefer him being a shit stirrer compared to being boring, yes. Or rather, I'd much rather see the character naturally progress from point A to B, where he goes from someone closed off from everyone else and trusting his own judgement, bitter attitude and all, to someone who actually learns to open up in the way he was open when he was with Maria. Everyone always leaps to the "team dark friends for life" bandwagon as their favorite version of Shadow after 06 but that never felt earned or natural, even though I wouldn't be opposed to it. Overall though I think there's far more weight behind treating him as a nuanced character who makes his own decisions for his own reasons in line with his established character rather than an ideal that people want to see, at the end of the day.


  8. 4 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    So the character who's entir

    His entire motivation in SA2 was motivated by the loss of a loved one, but you're gonna actually sit here and try and tell me that he has no capacity for empathy...

    Capacity? Him being so close and being raised alongside Maria is the entire reason he has empathy like this in the first place. If he went through the same level of trauma without a relationship like that, he'd still be an outright villain.

    Again, though, that made him jaded and bitter, and that's been his characterization since those events. You can't just wash all that away, moving on from the past or not.

    5 minutes ago, Natie said:

    yeah that's the biggest problem, he doesn't have a big enough part in these stories yet to really explore a more flawed version of the character, so it just comes off annoying.

    Basically

    I enjoy it for bringing the dynamic back into play after so many takes ignored it, but if this had been how shadow was portrayed for the last decade by everyone else, all that'd be left is the lack of accomplishment he's displaying lmao


  9. 5 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Santa said:

    I feel like now is a good time to point out that barring telling Omega to use a weapon, Rouge is still in immediate danger. Last issue established that she's still under Starline's hypnosis, even despite being able to think for herself now. When she was about to reveal Starline's identity to Tails, Starline told her not to spoil the surprise, which given Rouge's immediate silence, and her expression - was completely involuntary, and forced due to Starline's mind control.

    Wouldn't that mean taking out Starline is still the best way to save her? Especially if Sonic untied them and then Starline actually used Rouge to fight against them?

    4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

    When did Sonic and Shadow get into like this during 06 or Forces? 

    06 had the tension, but they really weren't fighting the same threat. Forces is the one without all of that. (lol @ forces' story but I'll consider it an actual case for this)

    I don't really consider it the same though being fair


  10. 16 minutes ago, Wraith said:

    Why would he push back against something as simple as "You go this way, I go that way"? Conflict without any reason or motive behind it is dumb on it's own, but it's especially dumb when we're looking at two seasoned heroes who have a history  of putting the slapfights aside when people are in danger. 
     

    They've been in a grand total of three games where they fought against the same threat and only one of them lacked Sonic vs. Shadow tension, if not actual slapfighting lmao

    7 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    I don't think its asking a lot for him to show some basic empathy towards other people; he could easily just free Tails and Rouge and then pursue Starline. 

    NotPride.png.2d96e7e8eb30c6e18b832cc9bc27335d.png

     

    Are you sure about that?

    You do understand that antiheroes are still ya know...heroes right? They actually help people, and are fundamentally good in spite of their anti traits. You kind of need heroic moments to balance that out and in case you've been reading a different book, he hasn't had many heroic moments that really stand out. 

    I want to actually like seeing on screen, if I don't like seeing him then I don't really care about "potential" development. Your good guys kind of need to have likable traits to get people to root for them, otherwise they're just assholes. 

    He could have, or Starline could have also specifically set them as a priority target to distract them from Starline himself. Shadow chose to skip and go for the head out the gate, so that's his best play at the end of the day. 

    Shadow still operates off of empathy, it's why he fights the bad guys and helps out where he does. How far he goes out of his way and his goals for that though is constantly in question though, since he values his judgement way more. And yes, that makes him an asshole at the worst of times.

    But Shadow doesn't care lmao

    Asking for empathy is the main problem I see with the fanbase and Shadow as a character, though. Everyone has 06's final result for him as ideal, and even idealizes it further than how far the game took him, (even though the game's events were erased whoops) when asking for empathy is already asking for something that Shadow wasn't willing to give in the first place. In his own games he's acknowledged the empathy he has towards people in immediate danger, like with Rouge, or at least attempting to empathize with the collective good of people in general for Maria's sake, but he's always, always emotionally distanced himself for his own goals. If Tails and Rouge were in immediate danger with no one else to save them, then his empathy for their well being would take priority over his established objective, but if not, why would he choose to slow himself down like that?

    I do get the idea that Shadow feels like he gets in the way with how little he actually accomplishes with these goals in IDW though. They've managed to bring Shadow's flaws and core back into the spotlight with IDW again, albeit indirectly when contending with mandates, but they really need to have him actually contribute to the progress of the main team if he's supposed to be someone to root for again. Without doing that, there's not a lot justifying including him in each new story if it's just retreading the same character beat over and over again. They could be giving him losses to give him more guilt or push other characters to finally snapping, but imo we reeeeeally don't need a more Punished Shadow, so... 😕


  11. 2 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

    This is an absolutely valid and sound read of Shadow's character...in theory. It makes sense when you think about it conceptually, but it falls apart the second you put it under scrutiny.

    I have no issue with Shadow being a flawed character who stumbles, that's fine.  That's good characterization. And that's exactly how he was in SA2. He's an absolute asshole in SA2, and makes it clear that his only concerns is following his plan. SA2 Shadow is focused and has purpose. 

    This is not SA2 Shadow, he is not driven by a sense of purpose, but to stroke his own ego and avenge his loss to Starline earlier in the arc. It is a gross misrepresentation of the character. At least in SA2, shadow was a villain opposing the heroes so it makes sense that he's an obstacle. But when Shadow is an active hindrance while being on the heroic side, he ceases being any kind of help and becomes a liability. And God forbid he shows some basic empathy just because his pride was hurt. It does not make him admirable or make me feel sorry for him, it makes him an insufferable asshole who I actively want the villains to beat up on. And I last time I checked, I shouldn't be feeling that way about one of the "good" guys.

    He showed more cared more about people when he was a villain, than he does right now as a "hero". That's all that needs to be said tbh.

    You're free to interpret his character however you want, but for me I'll be very glad if Starline just beats him again and he just leaves and I don't have to see him for a long time because frankly, I'm sick of seeing him. I'm sick of him not contributing anything meaningful to any story he's in, I'm sick of the characters just accepting this behavior, and I'm sick of Sega just using him as a cheap marketing gimmick to garner reactions. And its pretty significant that they've managed to turn me so hard against a character I used to think was actually pretty great to watch.

    I'm just tired of him man and I want him to go. Ill wait until the full issue is out, but I'm just over him at this point.

    Nah, I understand he's after Starline because of personal reasons as well but he's still playing out the "is it the best option or not?" scenarios in his head, as his inner dialog at the start of the arc displayed. Saying it's "just because he wants to beat Starline's ass" is a pretty surface level perspective, even if it falls in line with his current goals.

    In the arc, he's shown to be debating whether or not to help out Rouge/Cream's gang because he's already there, staying behind to ensure the abused chao were rescued, pretty clear disgust over their abuse, and the usual "I didn't do it for you" talk after rescuing Rouge and co. He's not just this mindless Vegeta clone who's wandering the countryside looking for a fight to prove himself, and anytime it devolves into that talking point it's pretty reductive tbh.

    Secondly, I can get some people's frustration over Shadow showing more negative, heel-based moves than enjoyable positive moments, but it also feels like people purposefully ignore those moments when it comes to this comic? For every "Cowards run, I fight" line, there are about five times more lines that actually lend themselves to fleshing out a very game faithful take on Shadow actually doing justice to his complexity as an antihero. Being mad about him not being a "hero" constantly is pretty misplaced, because he never aspired to be such a thing outright. Not yet, at least.

    There's potential for development and actual complexity with this Shadow, so I think it's far more valid than automatically defaulting him to the hero of the people that people seem to take from him after 06 happened. I definitely don't think that there'll be development anytime soon, considering the mandates and everything, but I respect the take far more for sticking to how Shadow should act post-SA2/Shadow than what the takes on him have been so far up to this point.

    2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

    There's no good reason for him to not make his intentions clear to Sonic, emotionally distant or not. This feels like a reach. 

    Every moment with him interacting with Sonic up until this point has been him and Sonic inherently disagreeing with what needs to be done. Why would this situation play out any differently in his head?


  12. 30 minutes ago, Wraith said:

    I'll give Evan the benefit of the doubt but Shadow not reacting at all to the avalanche feels like a severe misread of his character to me. It's fair if you want to wait for context but I don't think people are wrong to be concerned. 

    The way I see that is that Shadow still says harsh things to get people off his back for the "morally incorrect" decisions he makes. If it was Rouge saying it he might even go a step further in the bluntness/harshness just to commit to the choice he made to save the day "on his terms".

    Being more passive with a "I'll handle Starline, you save the village" vs. being harsher in the moment is the difference between a Shadow with less hangups and more trust than right now vs. someone who is still set in his own ways. He's always emotionally distanced himself from others to allow him to make the "right" choice, so I don't see this as much as a misread, moreso doubling down on an aspect of Shadow that most media chose to ignore up until this point.


  13. 25 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

    What line? The reaction would be to him just immediately ignoring a tied up Rouge and Tails...

    Well that's new but also the same thing; Shadow made his choice on what to prioritize and it wasn't the obvious choice given to him by Starline. Also the same in that he probably trusts Sonic/Rouge to take care of it without his help; he doesn't normally leave people in these situations alone, like how he stayed behind to make sure the abused chao were saved. This was his "antiheroic" decision, and it's perfectly fine for Shadow to do tbh.

    32 minutes ago, SBR2 said:

    I'm completely serious. I do not understand his appeal and never will. He's just not an interesting character to me and ok maybe self absorbed was too harsh but I really have never felt like he cares about anything but Maria. 

    It always felt more like he only protects Earth because he was told to not because he wants to or cares about the people of the planet. 

    I just honestly don't get how Shadow obtained this view of being a true caring hero who has a strong bond with Rouge and Omega.

    See the second part I get and is the reason why I'm behind this "regression" to before 06/easygoing Shadow, since it never really felt like his character naturally developed after SA2 and Shadow happened. All those emotions he was acting on were still his own, and remembering Maria's final wish, while he can act against them, doesn't outright erase them...

    The appeal of his character has always been clear as day to me, though. He's always been an angsty ball of arrogance since SA2, but underneath all of that lies his core reason for being a hero.

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    Quote

    Everything post-trauma Shadow can basically be summed up by this scene entirely. He'll laugh/scoff at someone's misfortune because of how jaded he is, But then he'll also turn around and realize that he has empathy for other people as well, due to being raised alongside Maria. Then he'll leap into action while still expressing his thoughts (Like how he thinks Rouge is a nuisance here) because he cares too much to not do anything about it.

    That's Shadow's core

    And people can't decide whether they like that or dislike that lol

    He still is self absorbed to the point where he can come off as brash or uncaring due to how jaded he is, but he's also operating based off of the feelings and empathy that growing up alongside Maria provided him. He cares about people, but rarely outright shows it. He won't go out of his way to outright help someone, but if the situation demands it, he will put them before himself and try to save/help them out.


  14. Oh we're overreacting to a good Shadow portrayal over here as well? Why am I not surprised lol

    This line is inoffensive. We know what his character is overall in the comic book and it's a very good characterization; this one line does nothing new to that and the fact that the fanbase keeps getting mad over these short lines as if they're ruining the character, is utterly ridiculous.

     

    And another thing: Shadow was never the "Hero of Humanity". Everyone just decided that was his title on a whim. "Giving the people a chance to be happy" is slightly different from that.


  15. I haven't watched the full video yet, and am kinda rough on remembering the meta of each of Platinum's games exactly right now, but ever since Transformers Devestation came out I've been saying this. The emphasis on transforming to dash, close the distance, and attack all at once sets the perfect stage for a Sonic-based enemy design, and the focus on melee attacks, the enemy's ability to ignore/parry that and throttle you if you got careless, and the close-range fisticuffing that came with it always had mad potential for a Sonic-based action game imo

    The main problem with Devastation is that the melee wasn't exactly distinct with it's moveset, and it was kind of unpolished with what staggered enemies, what they would parry against, and in general just following the basic combos all other platinum games had that came before it, when it really should have branched off to become more distinctly it's own thing. It's the metagame of the windows where the enemy is open for split seconds due to your speed and range you can cover, the attacks being suited for specific openings like frontal bodyslams, dodging into the enemy to dive underneath, body slamming from above, or just the right kinds of combos to keep the enemy off balance in their own way that made the melee have so much potential.

    For example, Blitzwing is an enemy that basically never staggers in the game, and if you're playing with the wrong character on the hardest difficulty, you're kinda screwed unless you're astronomically precise with the dodge while managing your combos and expecting his parry pushes from the timing, kinda brute forcing your way through the fight through memorization. The ranged weapons are the best bet for dealing with him quickly iirc, but if you picked a character class that was heavier than him that could actually grab and throttle him, like Grimlock, or speedier than him, like Sideswipe or Bumblebee, you could add their specific tactics to the fight to make the melee more managable and more exploitable.

    Problem is I agree that the parry move probably shouldn't activate witch time like he says, as that also made Devestation simpler than it needed to be, feeling more like a copy of Bayonetta when it could have been more it's own thing, and more intense in the process, but I dunno how to do that without being slightly unforgiving to new players. It'd be like asking them to play a decent match of a fighting game for the first time and immediately grasp how useful invincibility frames are, rather than an entire window of time where they know they can go to town. Witch time makes the system easier to understand, but it's just that: too easy after a point, and can simplify melee to "I'll just wait for witch time to activate again" as the winning strategy.


  16. 2 hours ago, JezMM said:

    It's definitely possible - to be honest, Sonic Adventure is a really good example - it isn't just "monster too powerful, Sonic squeezes a can of spinach into his mouth and now he can win", the dramatic focus instead is put on the idea that Chaos has drained the emeralds, and how positive energy and friendship can re-energise them and overcome the hatred in Chaos' heart.  As you say, there is some level of formula to it all, finales are often "all hope is lost UNLESS!!", but I will say that chaos emeralds tell us the "unless!!" in advance.  In the movie, I had no idea how Sonic was gonna come back from nearly dying until it happened.

    So yeah, chaos emeralds can definitely have their place (though the writers shouldn't be too precious about their mechanics - having to find 7 of them and turning the story into a macguffin plot can really cause tight pacing to escape from the writer's grasp as they become obligated to follow the rules - see how Scott Pilgrim did an admirable attempt but slightly clumsy job of squeezing 6 seperate antagonist plots from 6 books into a single movie).

    All I hope is that they are not the final solution to the story's climax.

    (I mean he deliberately gave chaos multiple concussions in-game but I guess if the cutscenes are anything to go by, sure :V)

    Maybe a good way to handle it would be to give the chaos emeralds a bit of a capture-the-flag quality to them - they're the key to winning the battle, and the more you have the more power you have, but the opposing team can make full use of them if they get their hands on them as well, and no one team really needs all of them to activate them/become super in the first place. Eggman often has a lot of them by the end game of most Sonic games, after all. Then the focus can be put on the tactics one party has to either retrieve all of them from the opposing team and win by sheer strength, buy enough time to pull off a contingency plan or figure a loophole out on the fly, or win via skill/a clever play in the face of rising stakes as the villains power up just by being near the emeralds/getting a hold of them all themselves.


  17. 5 hours ago, JezMM said:

    Honestly I don't really care if Super Sonic shows up in the movies or not, unless they can think of something narratively interesting to do with him.  He makes sense in the games as a reward or to provide a more "special" feeling final gameplay, but in a movie, as soon as those chaos emeralds show up, you know how the final issue is going to be solved.  Unless they plan to subvert our expectations somehow, I'd rather they not bother.  It's just kind of a cheap narrative solution that has about as much interest as kids in a playground going "I shoot you with a gun!"  "I have a gun-proof shield!"  "Aha but I have a gun-proof shield piercing gun!!"  Y'know?  Robotnik becomes too powerful for regular Sonic so... Sonic becomes a more powerful Sonic.  Yawn.

    It's actually given me an appreciation for Fleetway's odd interpretation of Super Sonic actually - it certainly made for more conflict and interest in the narrative.

    I don't know the full details but if the leaked mad-libs book was anything to go by, Sonic got his powers via an accident with the chaos emeralds somehow. If they were to go with that, what if they tied his powers, and Super Sonic, to the emerald's "turning thoughts into power/amplifying the desires of the heart/whatever" and that being how the chaos energy manifests as Sonic's source of speed, increasing with either more chaos energy or his own willpower? It doesn't do anything to make the general storybeats any better than the scenario you're describing, but it could be a piece of cool context on it's own for this universe imo.

    Though, I kind of have difficulty thinking of how any of these final battles differ from that sort of mentality in the first place. Typically a good final battle has tension of some sort, where the heroes look to have a chance, then the bad guy makes it clear that he is one step ahead of them and "they can't possibly defeat him now", to the heroes realizing they have what they needed to be stronger all along, be it emotionally, skill-based, or just random dues ex machina/power-up they discovered. Just because the chaos emeralds are built around the same structure doesn't mean they have to be boring; if other stories can take these climaxes and make them legitimately enjoyable to watch unfold, the same should be able to be achieved with the chaos emeralds as well.

     

    Edit: Oh, I also didn't mind that Super Sonic was absent from this movie specifically, but I am bummed out that the chaos emeralds didn't appear and were scrapped, as that would have really tied everything together in a way that'd set up a lot of potential for the series. Both with Sonic's powers and origin, the worldbuilding behind the emeralds, and the set up for the Echidna's hunting down Sonic because of this power, which if they played their cards right, could have lead straight into Sonic Adventure's storyline. It wouldn't have played out the exact same, since the events would have been ten years ago rather than decades in the past, so no murals of Chaos or anything like that, but something like Chaos happening in live action is exactly what I was looking for from a Sonic movie in terms of spectacle that only Hollywood could provide, so I'd be all over whatever we could get out of a different take on Adventure's finale tbh.


  18. It's technically the continuation of the kind of storytelling the classics tried to have as window dressing with their ruins/labyrinths and later hidden palace with Sonic 3, and definitely the culmination of environmental storytelling in the series. I wish that the series tried to make more use out of this style of a level, but at the same time it also takes significantly more effort to craft something that actually progresses like this than the general themes the series usually relies on. I also find as time goes on, I'm finding myself more and more appreciative of the general craziness of Sonic's world itself rather than looking for a world taken out of Metroid Prime, just for the sake of tickling my sense of adventure via grounded settings. If a game could find a good middle ground between both of these styles of levels and a sweet spot for aesthetic that's flexible enough for both, they'd strike gold tbh.

     

    I will say though, the goal of the level is kind of weak on repeat playthroughs. It's a dead-end destination based level, but at the end, all there is is a mural that either isn't that important to Sonic's story itself, or information about the story that we already know. It works in the sense of a first playthrough, but I feel like it would have been stronger if, say, it was a location Sonic had to pass through in order to chase after Eggman to his jungle base, and the mural was lined along a final shrine rather than at the end of a basement.


  19. Tbh this angle is playing it safer; it's leaning on the idea of the audience who is either familiar or unfamiliar with the character to only look down to him as a cute little mascot they've always loved to watch from the sidelines, rather than the childhood hero-angle of a strong-willed protagonist who the audience is supposed to look up to. Kids would eat the latter up for sure, but for the entire family and adult movie goers?

    Kinda similar to Classic Sonic's "identity" in a way actually. Cool doesn't or didn't exist. Only cute. Look at the cute hedgehog go! Back when Sonic games were actually bearable to acknowledge, amiright?

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