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Shaddy Zaphod

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Everything posted by Shaddy Zaphod

  1. Why does Sonic fandom still feel miserable? I honestly can't figure it out.

    1. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      It's not because of the bad games. I'm not sure it has anything to do with official content, actually. I mean, I like Homestuck and Dragon Ball, and those have been lame for at least a decade each, but there isn't that feeling of doomer energy around them.

    2. booblur98


      sonic just brings out the worst in people for some reason.

      nobody can agree on anything, and when you inevitably don't agree on something with someone, it becomes a declaration of war.

      even something thought to be general consensus like "sonic 3 is good" or something has become some kind of statement or hot take.

      there's a good reason i'm leaving the fandom in january. a very good reason.

    3. Strickerx5


      I really do think that is is the content for the most part. I think back to that late summer of 2016 right after both Forces and Mania were announced and before shit started hitting the fan with the former. People were excited and didn't really have too much of a reason to knock anything. There was just a lot of positive energy in the air. Same could be said for 2011 in the lead up to Generation.

      It's the same with any fandom. The quality of content dictates the flow of its following. There are certainly edge cases. Though, most of them still had something to be very optimistic about. Taking Dragon Ball for example, that series still had a ton of games and top notch fan content to keep it afloat in even its most quite years. Not to mention how, over the last decade, the series made a serious resurgence into pop-culture with two movies and another successful manga and anime run (no matter how one ultimately thinks of Super, a lot of people did like it).

      As for Sonic... well, the same really can't be said. While fan content is certainly plentiful and the side content like comics and the movie are successful, most are really just here for the official games. And that major part simply hasn't been there for, well, most of recent memory. I think the fanbase reflects that quite well.

      There's also the addition of the loud minority which will always cause a stir no matter what.

      That all being said though, Sonic definitely isn't the worst thing off atm. They may not be what people are here for, but at least we do get good comics and a decent movies. A lot of fanbases would kill for less lol.

    4. Shadow Chaos Control

      Shadow Chaos Control

      I don’t feel miserable as a Sonic fan, on the contrary I feel great optimism for the franchise. 

    5. I Have Berry!

      I Have Berry!

      Any fandom can feel miserable when a global pestilence gums up the works and decreases the amount of content below what they consider satisfying. The Sonic fandom in paticular hadn't gotten what been intended (yet never promised) regarding info drops every month and a big leadup to the 30th annivesary.

      So they choose to vent on the series more instead of being properly patient and finding better ways to waste their time

    6. Wraith


      It's not the content, it's the attitude Sonic fans bring to every discussion. Even if something is just fine or even good it's not enough unless it "rights" the franchise. 

    7. Shadow Chaos Control

      Shadow Chaos Control

      I agree, I thought Forces was great, but the epectations are beyond the ability to appease. I call it the nostalgia trap, people want the games to be like their golden years titles, when back then those titles were new and innovative. Fandoms need to be open to breaking from trying to rehash the past. A great example is Mario Kart Double Dash, it took risks, but Mario Kart Wi thru-Tour is the same 64 rehash with new racers and characters, MK is now the Call of Duty of Nintendo, hardly changing between installments. SEGA must avoid this, if you cannot please the fans no matter what you do, then focus on good storytelling and good gameplay. There will always be critics.  

  2. One day, some of us will be old and dementia-addled trying to talk to streamers and lets-players who never knew us

  3. Unless you're a purist, I'd argue "isn't particularly interested in trying the full experience, but they hear the main levels are fun" is all that matters if you're going for maximum enjoyment. I played the HD version the whole way through for the first time recently and was shocked at just how little the game really provided outside the day stages, with said stages themselves feeling worse than The Unleashed project anyway. All that said, if you for whatever reason have to play the original release, you should at least do it (via either emulators or console modding) with the mods to put the homing attack on the jump button, and remove the battle music from the werehog levels. The latter especially will change the night stages from "boring and also that FUCKING ANNOYING MUSIC" to just "boring".
  4. And that's Rise of Lyric finished. Hardly a classic, but there's some decent moments that shine through. Honestly, the "it would be such a better game if x thing were true" feels a lot more honest with this game than 06, given what we know about development.

    1. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Despite that, this is simply still a more playable, better-designed game than 06 in most manners anyway. With that game, the very foundation, the game being planned around a slower, more "realistic" Sonic, crippled it from the beginning and more dev time wouldn't have made it fun no matter what you did. With Rise of Lyric, besides it not being advertised as a typical Sonic experience, I feel the problem is more...well, it being an utter mess on a technical level, but besides that, it's what's missing that causes the game's biggest problems, not the core experience. The primary loop doesn't feel awful, it's just that it doesn't really mix it up, and the rest of the game is so inconsistent it's hard to expect it to get any better.

    2. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      And for the record, while the "bugs make it better" comments are certainly a take you can make for enjoying one over the other, I do not recognize them as a legitimate critique of game quality as a whole. Not that this isn't all subjective, but that's a lot more subjective than questions like "do the controls function".

      Eugh. I think I'll try to play Riders next. Never tried those games.

  5. Is there a good resource for reading the various Sonic mangas?

  6. Is it just me, or is there a lot less communication between English and Japanese Sonic fandom than other languages? Like, obviously it's a language barrier, and a bigger one than with other Latin-derived languages, but it sometimes feels like a shock to even see a JP fan, even though it happens as much (to me) as a Brazilian or Spanish one, just because I guess they either hang around English spaces less or just don't seem to have any dedicated spaces of their own. I think it's more than just the popularity difference.

    1. VisionaryofSUPER


      There's a lot about the Japanese side we really don't know about. It's taken years to even translate classic Sonic media from Japan like all the manga and such. We have little to no Japanese articles or interviews. Our contacts in Japan are absolutely slim.

  7. Replaying Rise of Lyric. I'm having so much more fun than before just because I can emulate the game at a better framerate than the Wii U.

    1. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      Both of those are incredibly low bars.

      Although I am in the camp that still feels a bit bitter about the fact that RoL turned out so bad and really wish it was a product that I could like.

    2. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Eh, the technical aspects and the knowledge of just how much was removed are really the worst things about it. Without the former, the gameplay is mostly just serviceable and bland with a couple high moments and a few low ones, and probably would benefit from enemies having like 20% less health. It feels like such an easier fix than something like 06, where even when stuff like P-06 adds actual momentum and control, the game still just feels fundamentally wrong.

  8. Anyone ever emulated RoL on Cemu? Is it more or less intensive to run than Unleashed?

    1. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      FYI, I paid for the game, I just don't have a Wii U anymore

  9. I unironically think a lot of Sonic fans have eroticized their disappointment with the series and just won't admit it

    1. Polkadi~☆


      e... eroticized...?

    2. Wraith


      Rephrase that

  10. From the same guy who brought us "climate change is a communist plot" comes "Ken Penders is committing election fraud by wanting to stop voter obstruction"

  11. People talk about Rise of Lyric similarly to 06, but the prerelease footage is not a wildly different game from the final product. I wonder if the "it would've been so good if it wasn't on the Wii U" crowd just hoped it'd be longer?

    1. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Like, there are a couple removed mechanics in the "Sonic Synergy" trailers and such, but by-and-large, most of what seems to be missing in the final game is level and story content. It's weird that 06 and RoL are the games that get compared to each other, when one is a foundationally crippled game that goes on FOREVER, and the other is a fundamentally...well serviceably generic game, where a bunch of the work done had to be stripped away.

    2. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      I think this was why back in the "Devin argues with people constantly" days I was so angered by the 06 comparisons. It's not that I think RoL is amazing or anything, just that the problems it has are really different from 06's, and the surface level "buggy and unfinished" comments were not the main problems with either of them.

    3. I Have Berry!

      I Have Berry!

      So if you had to choose, which would be the more "functional" of the two had they'd been able to reach their "full potential", would it be 06 or ROL?

    4. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Well, it's hard to say, given that we have a much clearer look at one versus the other. If 06 retained its art direction, I think it still would have stuck with levels designed for a more sluggish Sonic, even if it was a perfectly-controlling sluggish Sonic, and that's not fun no matter how much you polish it.

      With Rise of Lyric, the "full potential" would just be the game we got, but with more levels and story, and a few different puzzles and mechanics. Given that I already find that way easier to tolerate than 06, I guess I'd go with Rise of Lyric. I already thought Shattered Crystal was a more boring game anyway.

  12. The more I play of both 06 with QOL mods and P-06, the more I'm convinced that more development time would not have saved it one bit.

    1. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Like yes 06 is shitty and broken, but the levels and gameplay are seemingly designed around being shitty and broken.

      I think the art direction was in part responsible for this. Realistic Sonic = slower Sonic = levels designed for a slower Sonic. And once you have that, you can't wriggle your way out of it without literally revamping the level geometry. And the sluggish mess that is Sonic in this game is necessary, because if you go too fast, you just about overshoot everything. It's no wonder Generations ports of 06 levels want you to have the 06 physics mod, or else have reworked object layouts and additional bits of geometry such that it's missing a lot of the original design.

    2. StaticMania


      More dev time wouldn't have made the character's accel faster...

    3. Mil-O-Lantern


      Yeah, some of us have been saying this for a while now. There's more than plenty things in the game that aren't (just) items that suffered from rushed production; they're design choices that are so fundamentally flawed, no amount of turd polishing would make them good.

  13. Morning. video. morning and video. this is what we do now. this is it. this is what it is. you

  14. Finished replaying Colors, this time my first 100% run. It's still good.

    1. Kuzu


      You're not allowed to think that; the internet told me so that's why. 

  15. Extremely Fast and Incredibly Blue

  16. image.png.45bc5ada2bec68b4ef60c8f65b4fea9b.png

    1. Polkadi~☆


      just hit the reset button on america already

  17. Just finished Unleashed HD. Having finally played the whole thing, I am absolutely baffled that this was apparently the gold standard of boost game design.

    1. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Like this was the thing Forces and Colors were supposedly such "insults" to? This was a fucking chore. The werehog is boring and has no substance, but the game doesn't turn into a masterpiece if you ignore it. Sonic is so goddamn fast and slippery that the stages feel like long quick time events even without the literal QTEs in them. I regretted saying "just play the Unleashed project" before, because that was kind of conceited, but now I see that the actual game is worse in every way.

      It's not worse than the perfect 4-hit combo of badness that was Heroes->Shadow->06->Secret Rings, but with the exclusion of Lost World 3D and Shattered Crystal (maybe Black Knight too), I have not enjoyed a post-2007 Sonic game less than this. I don't remember enough of the Wii version to say if it's better or worse, but this did not leave me with a good impression, wow.

    2. KHCast


      It’s fun, and honestly as a experience a lot more ambitious and atmospheric than future games in both gameplay and story, but it certainly isn’t the standard I’d say in terms of mechanics or level design. 

    3. Tarnish


      People are probably looking at Unleashed with rose tinted glasses because it came after even worse games and it was 'something new'.

    4. KHCast


      I’ll fight anyone and say Unleashed daytime is better than Forces modern. Lol not even a contest

    5. Wraith


      I hated it when I first finished it but on subsequent playthroughs it grew on me a lot. There's not a single 3D game released after SA2 that I enjoy more. I can only really understand Generations being better but I dont agree. 

    6. The Deleter

      The Deleter

      The game as a whole, no. The level and boost gameplay design is moreso the point, especially when compared to the lower tier boost games.

      The fact that you felt so on edge is exactly why some people prefer it over Generations' gameplay as well, since it has actual challenge and demands that you actually handle Sonic at top speed rather than just be handed it in sections it can be used well in. That and the platforming actually fits the boost mechanics better than all the other games combined.

      Nice to know it has a different feel from the Unleashed Project though. I never got around to installing it but it always looked off to me, either because it was off from the original's physics or flat out slower.

    7. JezMM


      I think even hardcore fans of Unleashed like myself don't consider it the gold standard, just that it was a strong foundation of something that could be improved upon and that Generations was a good effort in that regard but was too afraid to offer many challenging level designs, and Colours and Forces didn't even try to fix the rough edges, they just sanded the entire piece of furniture into a non-offensive, featureless sphere (Forces especially).

      The Unleashed project probably does play better due to Sonic's tighter handling for platforming in Generations, but I'll always prefer the original due to Unleashed Project having to replace a few set-pieces, and how it lacks the overall experience (when I replay Unleashed, I don't 100% it or anything but I do play EVERY stage, including the extra and DLC acts).  I've played the main stages so much that they don't really challenge me any more, so I need that extra, brutal content.

      I think you'd be hard-pressed to find an Unleashed advocate that thinks the game is flawless, it's definitely a "the higher highs are worth the lower lows".

    8. Soniman


      For the record Unwiished is worse because it's 75 percent Werehog, missing levels, no hubs (though that might be a plus idk) and the Sonic levels are the most shallow banal shit ever literally nothing to those levels but spam boost (which isn't continuous for some reason) and occasionally homing attack. Bad 

    9. Strickerx5


      Unleashed's speed in the daytime stages is actually one of the main things I love about it lol. It's unapologetically fast and the real rewards come from learning the levels and mastering those controls.

      The game as whole isn't perfect (I mean I'd argue that there's only a handful of games in this series that could ever even be brought up as such). Things like the sun and moon medals and/or some of the later werehog sections are a chore, even past one's first playthrough. Though for me, honestly, the game simply has more highs than lows. The twitchy daytime stages. The sense of scale and progression. The perfect blend of lighthearted and more serious narrative elements. The world itself and the music... dear lord the music. It's a complete package that I just don't feel any other Sonic game after ever matched (in Generations case) or even comes close to (LW, RoL, Forces, ect.).

      It certainly isn't a one size fits all as I know there are things here that others will have the exact opposite reactions to. Though, I can really only speak for myself. Imo, a lot of what it does right are simply benchmarks for the current series that, nowadays, I honestly struggle to even imagine current day ST ever exceeding in many cases. Even with all the new tech and knowledge given to them through time.

    10. Diogenes


      i give unleashed some credit for understanding that going extremely fast and acting on twitch reaction or memorization is really all it's designed for, compared to later boost games trying to include more traditional platforming sections that feel out of place and underdeveloped. it doesn't mean the gameplay is good, but at least it knows what it is.

    11. Kuzu


      The game is by no means perfect, and its honestly something that can only be appreciated on subsequent playhthroughs. The game kind of demands that you master it to get the most out of it, and I fully understand why that isn't exactly appealing.

      Colors, Generations, and even Forces are just easier to sit down and play, so its understandable why they're more accessible even if they lack the depth Unleashed had. 

      Its one of those cases where this game is something only I would enjoy, but would have a hard time actually convincing someone else to pick up.

    12. Tracker_TD


      A chore is right; that game does all it can to waste your time. If it's not the bloody Medals, it's going back to Prof Pickle after every level, just so he can tell you "oh yeah you can do another level now." Imagine having to go to Tails Workshop after every level in SA1, just so Tails can say "yeah you can go to Speed Highway now I guess" 

      I can only really see it as something good if I'm just revisiting the Day levels on a completed save file, and even then I'd rather just play Unleashed Project for the tighter physics, less idiotic button mapping and actually stable framerate. I don't see the extra levels as much to write home about either, as a lot of the challenge just stems from blatant trial and error, not helped by the framerate struggles making input response feel sluggish at inopportune moments. The bosses really aren't that great either, especially when they start getting reliant on QTEs. 

      Even the much-lauded graphical prowess doesn't hold up in practice because it's so pre-occupied with stuttering. Unleashed's artstyle is lovely, and the game looks great in screenshots, but in practice it doesn't exactly hold up to me. Forces looks pretty naff, but I can at least applaud them for making sure a pretty damn consistent 60fps was a focus.  

      It had 'ambition', I suppose, but that can't take precedent over the execution to me. And that's why I hate it. I think saying I "like" Forces and Colours more is being generous, particularly to Forces - it's more that I tolerate them more because they ultimately piss me off less when I'm playing. 

    13. Wraith


      Unleashed haters: this shit is wack wtf

      Unleashed fans: We Know

    14. Nix


      Unleashed is pretty terrible yeah.

      Honestly, my favorite part about the game is when they pull the rug from underneath you and go "actually this game is a collectathon game, go find X sun/moon medals to progress". Sonic Team already stuffed 70% of this game with an uninspired beat 'em up to egregiously pad it out, and they were still like "we need more". The game is just a total slog to get through.

      The Wii version might not be winning awards for its graphics, but it's a lot more straightforward with its design and I can at least appreciate it for that.

      Also the story's really boring too, and Chip is just as unfunny as every translator joke in Colors.

    15. KHCast


      @Tracker_TD “If it's not the bloody Medals, it's going back to Prof Pickle after every level, just so he can tell you "oh yeah you can do another level now."” 


      honestly this didn’t bother me at all since I was already going to revisit these areas plenty of times to engage with the citizens and their story arcs. If there was no incentive to go to these places after the initial visit, sure you’d have a case of it being tedious, but idk it never impeded or halted the experience for me 

  18. Did anyone else just get a weird email about Sonic and transformers? Like a weird movie script or something?

  19. Why would Unleashed have as shitty a drift as it does and then have levels built around a better one


  20. Trying to fuck around with Sonic Unleashed mods, but my antivirus keeps flagging the mod loader as suspicious. Anyone know if it's legit?

  21. Holy shit, right after I finish replaying Sonic Heroes, Ross Scott makes a video about it.

    1. Sean
    2. SonicWind


      Well. Never expected these two to collide, but I love Ross's stuff and I love Sonic, so I'm here for it.

  22. Playing Forces again. What even is the difference between "secret" levels and "extra" levels

    1. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      Extra stages are unlocked with Red Rings, secret stages are unlocked by clearing all of the regular stages within a zone. Or vice versa, I dunno. Functionally they're no different. Like Reverse Block 1 is a secret stage, whereas Reverse Block 2 is an extra stage. Or again, might be the other way around.

      Different names for the same shameless padding.

  23. I know it was mostly just a meme to compare Rise of Lyric to 06 but the more of Sonic games I play from 2004-2007 the more I can't help but think they're all just bad in different ways

    1. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Getting all the emblems in heroes has been one of the most frustrating and time-consuming experiences I've had with Sonic in a long time. Earlier this year I replayed Shadow the hedgehog, and it bored me to pieces, even if it's decidedly less-jank than Heroes. A year or two ago I emulated Secret Rings and Black Knight in much the same way. The former felt more like Heroes, the latter more like Shadow. 06, at this point, is infamous for it's lack of polish and being completely unfinished, but I can at least say it has variety in a way neither of these games do. Every death being out of my hands means I never feel like it's a surprise, I guess.

      By comparison, Rise of Lyric being a slightly-messy but generally functioning game just cannot be on the same level to me. It's so god damn average I can't get upset about it. It's basically a better Heroes.

    2. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Simultaneously, I cannot fathom how people still manage to act like now is the worst time for Sonic, even without Mania.

      If I can go to games from upwards of ten years ago that I have a ton nostalgia for and come away hating them, I don't see what can make me betray the mild okayness I've gotten from every Sonic game since Unleashed (excluding Black Knight, Lost World 3DS, and probably Shattered Crystal). The games are just better.

    3. Blacklightning


      I personally think it's better to have just one shockingly awful game than over a decade of incredibly consistent mediocrity, and I don't think that should be a controversial statement to make. Maybe claiming it's the worst period of Sonic is kind of hyperbolic, but I still feel like there's something genuinely, overwhelmingly wrong that everyone involved in Sonic has been overseeing it for this long and somehow, against all odds, learnt absolutely nothing from it. Doubly so considering that Sonic is currently an outlier, and pretty much every other fork of Sega is running fine.

    4. Bobnik



      Simultaneously, I cannot fathom how people still manage to act like now is the worst time for Sonic, even without Mania.

      For me it's less "the worst time" and more of a "the most boring time" in terms of Sonic games, because since Generations everything else was, frankly, a borefest.

      Like, sure, from the pure technical standpoint the games got better and less janky (even if the last 2 mainline 3D games are still jank as hell), but everything else for me just kinda suffered. The stories were a lot more boring, the dialogue, despite being written by people who know English, could be quite cringe-inducing, the level archetypes became very same-y and outright Mario-esque (I'm tired of seeing checkered hills for a reason), even the artstyle got in the wrong direction compared to, say, Heroes and Black Knight and stuff like that. Mania was a great game, yeah, but the issues I have are pretty much the embodiment of the issues I had with the games in general since Gens.

      I do disagree that it's the worst time for Sonic in general, since we got comics that are quite decent to read through, as well as the movie that was pretty enjoyable. But in terms of games, at least for me, it just got boring. The general lack of side stuff doesn't help either, at least during 2004-2007 there were Advance games, Sonic Rush, Riders. The games after Gens we got were a bad Sonic 4, a great arcade racer, a bland arcade racer, a dead subseries and a couple of mobile games that are just Temple Run.

  24. Cream in Heroes sounds like an adult woman doing an impression of an adult man doing an impression of a child

  25. Man, I really love Nathalie Fourdraine's sense of energy and color for Sonic art.

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