Roger_van_der_weide

Alas, I think the producer of Sonic racing transformed mentioned a few times that Ristar looks bad from a behind perspective so he doesn't work in a 3d game. Unless they'll give him a weird car where he sits sideways, I don't think Ristar will make it outside of a flagman role or background cameo. As for my predictions, I think it's most likely they try to be cheap and only use character models they can recycle from previous games, so I only expect the Forces/ Lost world and maybe Generation cast to show up. Maybe Jet/ Wave/ Storm will show up if recycling their models from Free Riders works. At least it'll be nice if the Avatar shows up again, kind of a waste to invest all this time unlocking clothes and gadgets for your character, only to have him be stuck in only a handful of levels to play.

I'm fine with the memes as long as there's some straight real stuff as well. My biggest gripe a year ago is that "punch yourself in the face" humor was litteraly the only thing we got out of Sonic, whether it was the PR, Sonic Boom and the official games. There was no escape, unlike "The dark age" of Sonic that still had Sonic Heroes, Sonic Advance and Sonic X being light fare. Now Sonic Forces shows there's still room for straight Sonic, even if Forces itself kinda failed at it, I'm more at peace with the self deprication, even if I still don't really like it at all. As others said, self deprication is only good when it's part of a growing process. If you still keep failling, then it's just cheap. And the fact it's only old fare that's the target of the jokes instead of curent issues doesn't help either. I don't care that "they're aware" of how decades old games made for a diffrent system by a diffrent development team following a diffrent philosophy screwed things up, how about acknowledging the mistakes you're making NOW? Yeah yeah, fishing with Big was boring, whatever. Will we get 3d gameplay that's actually in 3d or what? Is Sonic Team aware that Mania's usage of Classic Sonic was better, and why? Will someone give Pontaff a lecure about how "Flow" works in storytelling? Make jokes or references to that, THEN I'll be more reassured and hopeful for future games. I don't care that Sonic kissed a princess a decade ago. And as for the "The PR can't help it, they're just having fun". Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there's an increasingly larger part of the fanbase getting tired of the self mutilation aproach and becomes more and more thirsty for energetic adventurous Sonic. Keep pushing one direction too far for too long and the scales will tip in the other direction. Making memes and jokes was indeed an aproach that was welcome in 2008, but the question is how long it'll be. Even for the sake of preserving the meme comedy aproach, offering a more healthy balance can prolong the current direction before people become more and more restless for a more extreme make over. The PR has to be on top of this all. Poor guys, the Sonic fanbase isn't easy to keep a hold on. But indeed, we had Forces, our "balance". But man, does that game feel like an odd duck with none of the PR promotion around it feeling approperate to that game, other then whenever they silently released video's and music. Altough to the PR's credit, that cartoon of Eggman promotiing his robotiziation machine was a million times better then anything Forces's story had to offer. Amazing what humor can do when it includes elements of danger and adventure in the punchline rather then just Sonic and Eggman being best friends doing nothing.

Would be cool if the tracks are more open and they add some sort of Crazy Taxi mode. Nintendo had Mario takes over the F-zero franchise, might as well have Sonic be the Crazy Taxi 4 we'll never get. Hey, anything for an excuse to have Eggman be driving around angry customers, fingers twitching on a launch button. Eh, probably won't happen, but I can dream.

No Saturn Sleeves? I thought this was supposed to be a Saturn style game? But, eh. Pass. Only care about new levels.

Kinda unfair you take Sonic 06 as a perfect recreation of the Adventure games only on a vague general concept "They both have hubs, they both have snowboarding, they both have story" While Sonic 4 is taken to an extreme nerdy level of comparison. It's the same game on a general vague conceptual level. 2d returns, classic style zones, focus on speedy platforming. Same general stuff. But oh, the rolling physics aren't exactly the same. Oh. Ok. Diffrent game then. But hey, Sonic 06 has story and snowboaring in it, so exact copy of Adventure. The snowboard physics of 06 are utterly diffrent from Adventure's too. But that doesn't count. Come on, Sonic 06 is just as much a distorted exagerated imitation of Adventure as Sonic 4 is for the Classics. Sonic's interactions with Elise is as much as distortion of Shadow and Maria as using Homing attacks to create rhytm instead of pinball physics is. Besides, I'm sure 80% of the people who played Classic Sonic noticed Sonic 4/ advance's physics problems. Well, before it was bludgened trough our skulls eventually. But not everyone is a hyper fan obsessing over minute details in physics. I can't be the only one who thought the Advance games were perfectly fine follow ups to the Classic games without noticing the appearently gruesome crimes against the physics. Sure, the Advance games weren't as epic as Sonic 3 and Knuckles, but otherwise did pretty mcuh what I expect from a classic game. But nah, physics are 5 pixels off, so they're monstrous distortions of the classics. I never noticed a problem with Sonic 4's physics either because I was playing it as a videogame, not a physics simulator test. I did find the game boring, but that was more because of the generic level themes and the missing sense of adventure, not because Sonic rolls diffrently. Also this "It has the same levels" logic makes no sense. "Sonic 06 has an emerald coast, an ice cap zone, etcetera". Who's saying sequels should have the exact same levels again? In fact, it's usually when you get a lazy imitation game when they literally copy the same levels. Hence why Sonic 4 still fits as a comparison with Sonic 06, also blindly recycling level themes. And surprise, Sonic adventure 2 has none of Adventure 1's level themes. Unless we're going to be pedantic with "well, there's a city in both involved".

What's the point in this discussion, with Sonic Forces and Sonic 4, it goes to show every direction Sonic Team follows can end up in horrible flames. Adventure, Boost, Classic, whatever. Problem isn't what Sonic Team does, it's that it's Sonic Team doing it. That's the frustrating part about this stupid discussion, emphasis should be on Sonic Team needing more self reflection, focus and grip on what they're doing, Whatever they're doing. Not "oh they should only be endlessly making Classic and Boost games, because if they're doing Adventure again it'll immediatly explode into a Sonic 06 disaster because only that direction can fail' as if there's a damn Voodoo curse on it or something. As for Iizuka saying he won't do another Sonic adventure because he doesn't want to de-evolve into the past but wants to continue forward (Because Forces is such a step up from Classic/ Adventure/ Unleashed's gameplay qualities), he kinda said the same about the physics in Sonic 4. http://www.sonicretro.org/2010/11/foot-in-mouth-or-tongue-in-cheek-iizuka-speaks-on-sonic-4-physics/ Calling Sonic 4 an improvement on classic Sonic's physics. So there ya go. Point being, we should stop asking Sonic Team to make a Sonic 5/ Unleashed 2/ Adventure 3, but get themselves sorted out first, Whatever they do. And as for a Sonic adventure 3, it's probably a better idea to just identity what specific things Adventure fans want returned (Friends being useful, a story that gives a damn about itself, 3d platforming that actually involves 3d and platforming) and implanting those things into whatever actual highly evolved supergame they want to make. Cherrypick the best parts of it's series of games, instead of slavishly copying it wholesale without understanding (See every incarnation of Classic Sonic this decade outside of Mania). But then of course Sonic Team will claim Sonic Forces did have Sonic's friends being useful, a good story, 3d and platforming. Hah. Bringing me once again by my central point, Sonic Team is the problem, not their direction.

Molul said Modern Sonic, not 3d Sonic. Modern Sonic is 80% 2d and 20% watch pretty things happen.

One problem with that, the last Olympic game, Rio, was finished on June 23, 2016. More then a year before Forces' launch, so that team could have been transferred back to Sonic Forces development. In fact, the Rio game being completed might have been the exact moment when full production began. And I'm not sure if they're making more Mario/Sonic games, didn't Sega/ Nintendo lose the license to make Olympic games? There sure isn't a PyeongChang game out now. Altough I still agree you're right and most of the Unleashed/ Generations team is gone. Most likely to work on Mario Kart/ Mario Odyssey, altough we can always secretly hope they're working on a brand new Proper Sonic game behind the scenes. After all, Unleashed was already in construction during Sonic 06's production.

Eh, I for one look forward to Sonic Carmageddon splat pack. Run over civilians for extra time bonus.

Mystical Ninja Goemon 2, either the Snes one Or the N64 one (These are remixes from a Pachinko machine, the originals are pretty cool too)

I hope so, racing games always have the funniest plots. There's just something about introducing life threatening danger to a game mode where everyone's politely obeying competition rules and running in circles. Problem with on-foot racing versus vehicles can be solved by just having small vehicles. Like Motorcycles. Why do they even need big bulking cars? Unless it's a full on Sega racer, in which case of course we need Hornet and Outrun cars, but if it's Sonic alone, just put the slow characters on scooters and be done with it. Dr. Eggman driving a motorcycle in Sonic Riders looked badass.

If they're interested in the Japanese market, throwing in Sakura Wars characters will double sales over there. I'm surprised they haven't so far. Of course most of us in the west will only raise a confused eyebrow. I suppose Sonic Sega all stars games never seemed to be made with Japan in mind, considering I read rumors Japanese fans had to import the first game. Still, if I was Sega, I'd definitly throw in a Persona or Yakuza character in there at least. Those finally seem to be gaining traction in the west, while still bringing in the Japanese crowd. Dunno if I really care about a Sonic only racer. Generations, Lego Dimensions and especially Forces and Mania's detached Meta aproach to just throwing in random locations and characters on a pile with little to no Story context completely cheaped the thrill of seeing Sonic's past return. I want the real characters and locations to matter, not another parade of meaningless fanservice. At least seeing old Sega characters get some time in the limelight still has a bit of a thrill. I suppose if it's a on-foot Sonic R style Racer I'll be interested in it in terms of gameplay, but if it's just a generic fanservice driven Kart racer, then eh. Just give me Sega Fanservice then.

Biggest problem with Forces was it's lack of focus. Can't be an arcade style super simplistic fast Sonic action game, then add a large cast, epic premise on top of that. The premise fits more with an slower RPG style game where events can sink in. And then Classic Sonic throws in a third even more alien direction in the mix. This really should have been 3 diffrent games, Classic Sonic and Classic nostalgia (So Sonic Mania that we already got) a fast paced arcade Modern Sonic game (So Generations 2 minus the nostalgia) So what's left is Sonic Forces actual personal essence, the OC character stuff. Really feels like the best way to use it is by making it a spinoff RPG or whatever on the 3ds or SVita. People seem to have zero tolerance for weird premises or characters and stuff in the main games, spin offs are allowed to have more freedom in tone and direction. So a Sonic Forces follow up I'd prefer is that they stick it to the side as a spin off game, just focus on the OC character/ Sonic friends as army aspect of it and make it a slower 3d platformer with RPG elements. And keep Classic Sonic/ the next main 3d Sonic game their own seperate things.

All they learned from Sonic Generations being well received is "People like Green hill zone and Classic Sonic", none of level design, focus in vision, interactive usage of setpieces etcetera etcetera. So I find it hard to care which game will win out Sega/ Sonic Team's favor in figuring out the future. Chances are they'll get an entirely diffrent conclusion out of them then we want them. This is especailly frustrating with Sonic Forces, as people who like Forces tend to Love the concepts and direction, but don't tend to like the execution. It's a complete crapshoot if Sonic Forces' (Potential) Succes will encourage them to give the concepts a second chance with a richer executed game, or if they'll consider it a victory for lazy game and story design. I suppose that's at least an advantage that Sonic Mania has, EVERY freaking Modern Sonic game has the same Meta worship of Classic Sonic imagary shoved up it's butt, so if Mania does better then the others, they'll have to look closer to the actual execution of the game. But then again, Sega come across to me as in just looking for shiny "instant succes" magic gimmicks. Just dangle Shadow the hedgehog and Green Hill Zone in people's faces, no matter how superficial and cynically they're implanted in the game. So chances are all a Sonic Mania succes will do is them just aggresively pushing for Pixel art in all future games, but not much else. But that's just me being cynical. One ray of hope I got is that Sonic Critism as become more well defined today. So at least they should be getting more specific feedback this time around. Problem with feedback from past games was that they were only relevant for that specific period in time (Yay, no more Sonic friends, yay no more Werehog, yay Classic Sonic returns after he got the shaft in Sonic 4!) but have become outdated since. Forces feedback contains a lot more general hard critism that'll stay relevant.