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About Roger_van_der_weide

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  1. Famitsu reveals Forces Development Timeline

    Even outside the "Actual development is only 1 year" true or false stuff, what I find way more interesting is that it still implies the CONCEPT of Forces has been in development for 3/4 years and even THAT feels like it's been thrown together in a day. Nothing about the "Eggman in charge" theme, Infinite's backstory, the Phantom Ruby, the Virtual reality stuff feel like they spend more then a day throwing together the most shallow and obvious things to do with them and toss em on a pile.With only the OC character being the most defined aspect of Forces. And even that's a bit dissapointing and basic, but at least feels more or less complete. That said, I still think it might be true the concept been in development for 3 years, just in an unhealthy "rope pulling contest" kind of way. Instead of taking the concept and exploring it for 3 years, it's likely have been an endless hellish back and forth of a person having an idea, everyone else shooting it down Groundhogs day of nothingness. Obsessing over minor details and failing to create an engaging bigger picture.
  2. How would you fix the story of Forces?

    I feel a story of this magnitude needs more of an RPG structure. Like you can actually walk around in towns and see the carnage and consequences and let it sink in. Rather then just hop from level to level. Take for example the fight with Zavok. Look in the background, there's other prisoners actually cheering at Sonic. We never see those prisoners in the levels or cutscenes. (Heh, hope the other reistance members bothered to rescue them before they exploded with the Death egg.) See, if we had a moment to walk around in the prison, see Zavok being a bully toward other prisoners, that would have been a satisfying pay off. Now Zavok's just randomly there, other prisoners randomly there and I don't really feel any pay off other then "oh, Sonic is back. Oh it's the guy from Lost world. Ok."
  3. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    I said that very clumsy, true, sorry. Specifically referring to when they're being more meta driven. Sonic Advance or Classic games or Rush Adventure do try. When operating on a more free flowing comedy style can get away with plotholes more easier, is what I'm saying. Said it a bit blunt, sorry.
  4. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    I suppose lighter stories are accepted more favorable since they don't try and therefore can't fail. Not to mention I get the serious impression most of us Sonic fans' worst enemy is our own brains, over thinking things and getting upset when the tiniest comment or phrase seems to unlock an enormous avalanche of thoughts. Myself included. The tiny things I've seen people get upset over... I suppose this is another reason why "comedy Sonic" is considered superior or good by a lot, it actively discourages you to think. Celebrates not giving a damn about anything. It's just writers and actors having fun and being self aware, so don't worry. Nothing means anything, it's all completely disconnected fun in a meaningless void. Member "Get a load of this"? Lol! Not to mention Modern Sonic and Boom Sonic have invited in a brand new series of Sonic fans, a more meta self aware crowd. Who want Sonic and Eggman to just be the "herpey derpey I'm videogame man. I collect things, isn't that weird? Member Sonic 06? Lol" audience surrogates. And I suppose that's one thing Sega's good at. Mostly because it's super easy and shallow. Have observations about a clever as the typical Youtube comment and you're comedy gold, if only because now it's spoken by an official Sega staffmember. That said, I do think there's an enormous desire in a more exciting Sonic game. All these larger then life songs from Sonic are super popular on the Internet, Infinite's theme, His world.. These songs promising adventure and danger beyond your wildest imagination, it speaks to people. That's a huge lure to the series, even if few if any Sonic games ever furfilled the promise these songs bring. These are not songs you love when you just want the cast to spout meaningless catchphrases. I really hate we keep dividing it between serious and comedy Sonic, those don't need to be seperate entities. In fact, characters like Eggman work the best when they have a healthy balance between threatening dangerous enemy and crazy clown. That contrast energizes the character. I look at Sonic 06 and Sonic Colors and I don't see Serious Sonic versus Comedy Sonic, I see boring Sonic versus diffrently boring Sonic. Neither has much energy. Either the characters stand around explaining boring plot elements or they're standing around going on a comedy routine about how borign having adventures is. Far as I'm concerned they both have the same problem, even if they're the opposite ends of a coin. What I think is the most important thing of all is energy. A genuine desire of the creators and writers to have fun. And not fun in a "haha, I'm self aware that Shadow is edgey" fun, but a "Let's have a crazy adventure with these incredible characters and their world" fun. Fun that celebrates, not mocks. That embraces the world, not shuns it. Sonic Forces made a step in the right direction of the cast at least TRYING to go that direction but fails spectacularly. Either because it changed direction halfway trough, because the passion and sense of fun was forced to begin with, or because they're too terrified to make any big decisions in concern the other groups of fans might protest. Or because they're incompotent. It's probably a combination of all 4. What we need is a confident new team that get's Sonic. Like Whitehead. But alas, I'm worried if Sega's looking for new Sonic team blood, we just get another Red Button. People using Sonic as a steppingstone to get a shortcut to the projects they Really want to make. At this point i'm ready to consider the Sonic Main games as non canon side games and look for the fanbase to give me my real Sonic fix, because outside of music perhaps, fans have succeeded Sonic team on every level.
  5. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    Can barely tell the diffrence between Pontaff and not Pontaff anymore. I suppose I do owe them an apology, altough I still dislike their style of dialogue. Regardless, they've proven themselves compotent with Sonic Boom Fire and Ice and this supposed "Japanese written" story of Forces showcases many if not all of the tropes I hate about Pontaff's writing, so I suppose Forces proves the problem was always more deeper then their abilities. Long story short, I don't really care anymore.
  6. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    Uh... Well, it's fascinating to say the least. Far as gameplay goes, it's not what I want, but it looks fun. Bit clumsy, but fun. The story... I'm frustrated it wastes so much potential but on the other hand, it's fascinating to try and figure out what Sonic Team is doing. It's so clumsy and awkward and weird it stops being a story and starts becoming a weird thought experiment, an exploration of an entangled mess of ideas, rushed changes, and a terrified team trying to please too many diffrent people at the same time. So uh, I am enjoying myself with this game. Not in the way it's intended probably, but it's fascinating to watch this all unfold regardless and it isn't too bad to play either, so I guess I'm happy in a weird way.
  7. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    So..So.... Rouge and Shadow infiltrate "enemy teritory", which is...The city. So the city is ruled by someone evil, even before the Eggman invasion? And it's already exploding with giant robots blowing it to pieces BEFORE the invasion starts? And...and...And in the middle of these explosions, Rouge tells Omega and Shadow to be quiet and stealth like, so they don't make a big scene...While the city is already exploding. Wait, isn't that exactly the same dialogue from the comic, that took place in the pyramid? So Sonic Team randomly swapped that for a level that makes no sense in this context? Especailly since Rouge then says the base is about to explode, which is that city... Uh.. So pretty sure the pyramid should have been the first level, not the city. I have to admit, I was impressed by the Infinite backstory cutscene. Mostly because I didn't expect anything. But got to love the game setting up this angry intense and dramatic connection between Shadow and Infinite....And after this they never interact again. It's like Sonic Lost world all over again with Eggman having this intense scene with the Zeti that never pays off. ... this.. Ah, my brain... It hurts. But with this, and Sonic Mania's random level order and most of the "tutorial "stages of Sonic Forces actually being mid- game stages...Even Shadow's DLC stage we saw was the third level.....Is Sonic Team having a fetish for randomly shuffling level orders around? And..Why? It's making the stories non sensical and it can't be for gameplay reasons either since now we got these super easy stages in the middle of the game. I don't understand what the heck's going on.
  8. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    Not directly, but it was the entire moral point of Sonic Adventure 2. Amy's entire speech toward Shadow boiled down to "Humans are kinda stupid but deep inside they're good, learn to forgive them" and that's part of Shadow's Character arc. To truly understand what Maria meant for him to be an asset to the good of the world. What and whom to fight for. Even if it's your enemies. This more or less returned in Shadow's own game when the GUN commander became the physical incarnation of this, the stupid emotion driven human making things worse until he learned from his mistakes and decided to team up with Shadow in the end. I admit Sonic team didn't do a very good job in telling this story, the wonky contuity, translation mishaps and diffrence in culture... But the puzzle pieces are there. It's a really Japanese thing probably. The whole " be a useful part of society" is very strongly ingrained in there, which is why Shadow probably works easier for them then for the more individual driven culture of the west.
  9. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    What KINDA keeps Shadow together for me in the SA2- Sonic 2006 era is that he's always first and foremost duty driven. While whom he considers being worthy to be duty toward may vary, bouncing from Gerald to Maria to Dr. Eggman to GUN to Dark Doom, he's completely submerged in his desire to be useful. With exception of Sonic Battle and the beginning of his spin off game, as a result of his identity crisis. That's how I always pictured him. But yeah, I admit the people he's dutyful toward can feel random at times, especially his relation with Dr. Eggman is strange. Wish the games went more indepth what Shadow and Eggman really thought of each other since they keep switching from enemies to friends to manipulation tools. Regardless, the scientists creating and nurturing Shadow brought him up with a strong sense of duty to be useful, hence his quest for " the truth" so he knows who is worth fighting for and who isn't. But after 06 that's thrown out of the window. Now he's just a bully picking fights with Sonic because. Granted, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Rivals loved to make the cast try to murder each other for flimsy reasons all the time too but at least there was some sort of mission going on behind the scenes. Now without even a basic mission for Shadow to go on, he's just an aggresive bully. The complete opposite of his original character. That's why I find the degration of characters like Knuckles and Shadow the most frustrating, both of them are extremely motivation and duty driven. So much that their duty almost defines who they are. That's why they're so fascinating to pitch against Sonic, who's carefree and just does whatever. Character contrast! Sonic Tails and Amy are more instinctive and emotion driven, so they're more moldable to whatever plot the writers throw at them, but Shadow and Knuckles need more structure. Take their duty away and you're left with 2 punchlines. Which is what's mostly left of them these days. At least Sonic Forces.......Tries...To do something with them again, even if it's more random and forced then ever before.
  10. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    The awkward thing with Shadow's voice by making him a selfaware edgelord, he's funnier and more enjoyable for people who hate Shadow as a character, but it irritates people who love Shadow as a character. So you're either someone that hates it that Shadow's around but can tolerate his performance Or you're someone who love Shadow being around but hate his performance. So nobody's ever really happy then, are they? This is my problem with Sega of America trying to please the people who hate the franchise or it's components. They're already angry and irritated so you can only make them less annoyed, while people who were enjoying themselves feel betrayed. We're falling between the ship and the docks, as we'd say in the Netherlands. Plus personally, I would find Shadow funnier if he WASN'T self aware of him being edgey. Playing it up as delusion or a weird form of innocence is funnier. Now it just feels like the writers and voice actors are screaming "we're aware, we're aware, we're aware!" in my face with no substance or anything of interest beneath.
  11. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    Everything about Modern Sonic's writing style feels like awkward over-compensating to me. People are annoyed Tails isn't playable? Let's make him hyper compotent and narcastic. Oh, now people dislike him? Make him useless next time. People complain Knuckles hasn't been compotent? Let's magically make him super awesome rebel leader man. Amy's annoying? Whelp, rip her entire personality out. Oh, she get's kidnapped in this game? People might be irritated. Better write her like she's Rambo to make up for it. So my guess is that the "torture" line is thrown in to over compensate for the lack of visual and emotional true stakes of the plot. Well, we got ourselves a war going on and nothing of any substance has happened and Sonic is just kinda hanging out in jail for 6 months. Eh, just throw in a line about torture to make it seem like it was eventful or something. It's so frustrating. They're technically writing things that I wanted to see changed, but they do it so blunt, with no grace, flow or thought, it feels even worse then what it was before.
  12. Not sure if people are more drawn to 2d games, generally speaking. Pretty sure the most main stream and best selling games are GTA, Fifa, Uncharted, Tombraider, Madden, Mass Effect, Assasin's creed, that sort of kidney. All 3d games, with only New Super Mario bros being a 2d succes story. 2d games are mostly delegated to Cell phone games, indy games and the odd Nintendo game. 2d games might be popular with the internet crowd super geeks, but let's face it, we're not the mega crowds that gamecompanies are aiming for. Of course making a 2d game like Mania is still a good idea. Low risk, easy profit. Worst case scenerio it still adds to a positive imago and relation to your customers. But a Sonic Mania is never going to become the earth shattering succes they're so desperatly looking for. Of course neither will 3d Sonic, with the clunky way Sonic Team is making those. But that's a diffrent story more related to their design direction then the virtue of 3d itself.
  13. Is Infinite the Anti-Tikal?

    12. Tikal became a playable character in the sequel. Infinite... But yeah, interesting thought process so far. Tough not sure where Infinite's backstory comes from. Your theories seem way too interesting to be true.
  14. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    So GUN isn't in Forces because that's that's the non-human world. Classic Sonic enters Sonic Forces' world from Mania's dimension, so that would be the second world. So Sonic Mania takes place in the human world. So GUN should show up in Sonic Mania. Ahahahaha. I can hear the screams of fan agony in the distance already. The only 2 worlds where Sonic takes place in is in Iizuka's mind and the incomprehensible mess we're stuck with in the real world. (Also, kinda funny how iizuka brought up that theory for Sonic Colors, the one game where it doesn't MATTER if it takes place in the human or anthro world since they go to space anyway) Jup, a lot of levels in Forces feel like the first level. Sonic Team just saw that Youtube video about that only the first level of any Sonic game is good, so decided to make the entire game out of first levels. See? They do listen to advice and complaints. Just in a very Sonic Team esque way.
  15. Sonic Forces SPOILER Thread

    Man what a dissapointment. A game about Dr. Eggman in charge. So do we get scared citizens worshipping Eggman statues, giant Tv screens of Eggman demanding citizens to do silly things in his honor, an even more extreme version of Mania's Robotnik Tv show? Do we get Robotnik themed circusses, opera's, themeparks? Nope, nope nope. People on this thread keep comparing it to SATAM Robotnik but even that's way overshooting it, at least SATam Robotnik sits on an epic throne, feels like the center and beating heart of a terrifying empire, sending out giant armies or robots and battleships out to destroy entire forests. What does Forces Eggman even do? Hang around with Cubot and Orbot in Green Hill zone immediatly getting his ass kicked by Classic Sonic hopping by. Great. That's the culimination of the concept of Eggman being in control of the world, him being the same dumbass he is in the light hearted filler adventures. Except here it feels horribly out of place. It's not light hearted silly Sonic, but neither is it Dark Serious Sonic. It's nothing. It's in a meaningless purgatory in the middle. Even in Sonic Colors Eggman had more of an evil presence with the Themepark anouncements. This game has the coolest premise ever, why is it so booooooooring?? I rushed off this crummy Flash movie in 5 days after I was amused with Webber's statement that Big's having vacation during the Forces events. I figured I wouldn't even touch the surface of the actual crazy things Robotnik would be doing as master of the world, but nope, even with rushing everything and having to delete half my jokes I got more out of the concept then Forces ever did. Boo. And the story keeps focusing on stupid Mc Guffin nonsense. The writers are practically patting themselves on the back how proud they are that they came up with the great plot twist of "Eggman had 2 power sources" like that's some kind of crazy twist. Yawn. Sonic Adventure Eggman had about 4 or 5 back up plans and never made a big deal about it. Even in Colors, Eggman had 6 or 7 generators, but now him having one back up is supposed to be the great twist? Buzz off. Isn't that the type of mundane stuff you should get out of the way with the in-level banter? Sure let Knuckles prattle on about back up generators and other Mc Guffin stuff during the level missions. But keep the cutscenes for cool stuff happening. Just like Sonic Lost world there's no flow in the writing. We don't get a transition between Dumb Knuckles/ Guardian Knuckles into him taking the role of Rebellion leader. He just magically is. All we get is the comic and even that one was a "Oh, I suddenly decided to become a leader of a rebellion" out of thin air. I hate complaining about this because I'm so happy Knuckles is finally useful in some way. But it's exactly this type of careless "Oh, now just assume THIS is how the characters are supposed to be" quality of wiring that creates my intense distrust and lack of respect in the writing and why the Sonic series is just a pile of brainless meta fanservice these days. We don't get to see the world being peaceful and natural before the time skip, so there's no contrast after Eggman took over. It's already broken and corrupted before Eggman's victory, with no advancements afterward. We don't see a heroic tough looking Tails suddenly realizing he's way over his head and break down, he's cowardly right from the start. Sonic isn't affected by his "torture". It's just empty meanignless dark banter just like Lost world with it's "Eggman will strangle the Zeti" stuff that never went anywhere. All this "dark dialogue" just feels like troll bait. Get sensetive Sonic fans rioting over nothing. And speaking of Zeti, now I still don't know if these guys are still alive, if Zavok has any opinion about him being cloned. And there's nothing to say about Infinite. He's just there. Half his screentime is going "Hmpf, you're not worth fighting" and the other half is him getting his ass kicked. And Iizuka's statement that he wanted people to think about "Why" Shadow was evil becomes a giant facepalm. Of course everyone's crazy theories end up being a million times better then reality, even the sarcastic and cynical ones. I assume we get to see more of Shadow's thoughts in the DLC because the only insight in Shadow's opinions on the matter we get is "Hmpfh." Even Sonic Boom Shadow is a more complex character then Forces Shadow and my mind boggles what an insane statement that is. All this talk about that 3d Sonic and Dark Serious Sonic Doesn't work will drive me nuts the coming weeks, this game is neither. It's dull. Dull Sonic doesn't work. And yeah, well duh. That said, I don't hate the game too much. It feels okay to play, like Sonic Boom Fire and Ice. Mostly harmless. Love the music. Level themes are interesting. The levels have brief moments of fun gameplay. Far as I'm concerned, it isn't a bad game. It doesn't do anything I hate. But man, the missed oppurtunities, the wasted potential. That's a giant elephant in the room suffociating this tiny little game that has no chance of even coming close to the impact it should have had. If we got this game with the story scope of Sonic Colors 2, I'd be praising this game as a fun little but unimpressive side game. But alas, it just had to take the coolest and most epic premise possible and steal that away from other more worthy games to try and pursue. And man, is it pathetic to see it try to aim for the stars when it can't even hop over a pebble. And are you kidding me that the very first Modern Sonic stage we saw of him in the city is actually from the second half of the game? A level resembling a tutorial stage? Seriously?