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Ryannumber1gamer

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About Ryannumber1gamer

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  1. I don't normally talk about this stuff, but the situation developing around TLoU2 really makes me want to say this

    I sincerely wish people would stop blaming feminists, or SJWs, or whatever for The Last of Us Part 2's story being bad from the leaks.

    The story isn't bad because Ellie is a lesbian, the story isn't bad because of a specific gender that a character is, the story is bad because the story in of itself is just literally terrible, and filled with bad elements.

    Spoiler

    It wouldn't matter if the villain was male, female, trans, straight, gay, whatever. The problem isn't their orientation, the problem is the game is forcing you to play as a character that you're meant to dislike and see as a villain up through the first half of the game, and only after you watch said character brutally murder the main character of the first game, you're then expected to play as said random villain for the remainder of the game, as you hunt down the fan-favourite of the first game.

    The number of hoops you have to jump through to even remotely care is the problem. Naughty Dog not only expects you to villaify and hate the beloved fan-favourite protags that the first game was praised for, but they expect you to feel sympathy for a random new character who brutally kills Joel, and is so insanely blood-thirsty that she spitefully says she's going to murder both Ellie's girlfriend, and her girlfriend's unborn daughter. It's subversion for the sake of subversion, and it's terrible subversion of that. There is near zero chance you're going to manage to give a shit about a villainous murderous character within half of a game, and even if you did, even more unlikely you'll like them enough to want to see her slaughter the beloved duo of the first game.

     

    1. Wraith

      Wraith

      You've hit the nail on the head on why both the leaks and the whole discussion around them have mostly been ignored by me. The legitimate problems with Naughty Dog's newer games and their production pipeline continue to be glossed over as people use their more inclusive protagonists as convenient excuses to vomit as much bigotry out as they can. Vile behavior that I can only take so much of. 

    2. The Tenth Doctor

      The Tenth Doctor

      Perfectly said, exactly my thinking. If Ellie is gay, thats ok. She's awesome. If the story is a mess, thats not ok. In trying to subvert fans, they shot themselves in the gut.

    3. Supah Berry

      Supah Berry

      We've got a whole 'nother Disney Star Wars trilogy on our hands methinks. People will be quick to fault the the forced "Woke" aspects for ruining it when it all comes down to just being a mediocrely written product altogether.

    4. Ryannumber1gamer

      Ryannumber1gamer

      What sincerely kills me about the story is

      Spoiler

      It's not exactly bad in theory. Ellie could've easily just fitted in perfectly about the supposed message of a cycle of revenge, and you would've cared far more about her because you like her as a character. This new villain isn't a bad idea in theory, if this villain was specifically kept as the villain made out of the consequences of Joel's decision in TLoU1.

      Joel killed the fireflies as revenge for their attempt to kill Ellie for a cure. This new villain appears to kill Joel for his part in the Firefly slaughter. Imagine if the first quarter, or half was trying to stay ahead of the Fireflies, only to fail. Joel is slaughtered in front of Ellie, which then sparks the second half of the game - Ellie falling into the same bloody cycle of revenge as she slaughters the fireflies in vengeance for Joel.

      But no, all of that is shot down basically for subversion's sake, and making an even worst story. 

       

    5. Wraith

      Wraith

      Spoiler

      Getting us to emphasize with Joel's killer IMO actually reinforces the themes of the series overall, I think it's a bold choice that makes sense. 

      I just don't think ND has the writing chops to pull this off. You would have to do a lot of legwork to work backwards and get people hooked on this character after they've murdered a beloved protagonist. They're putting themselves in a pretty difficult position that they could have avoided by letting us play as Abby first, possibly during or immediately after Joel slaughters the fireflies in the first game.

      I'll reserve judgement until I play the game but I don't think what I read was unsalvageable or even out of line with the first game's themes. It just seems strange, structurally, like shock value was prioritized over everything else.

       

    6. VisionaryofSUPER

      VisionaryofSUPER

      I think the problem is never the actual usage of "SJW" stuff. It's how big of a deal the marketting makes to it, that these idiots use it as a scapegoat. A game or movie can't just be poorly written to these morons. It has to be the SJWs, always the SJWs.

    7. Ryannumber1gamer

      Ryannumber1gamer

      @Wraith

      Spoiler

      I do agree that putting us in Abby's shoes first would have made it a lot better. My problem is the fact we'll be seeing her as a villain for one half of the game, the first half likely still having the strong writing of Joel/Ellie from TLoU 1. 

      I don't think the idea is bad, but the idea of giving us a villain who sounds downright insane for the first half, force us to watch a brutal murder of Joel, and then plopping us in her shoes and expecting us to immediately sympathise with her and turn against Ellie is what Naughty Dog almost definitely do not have the chops to pull off.

      Hell, even the fact that we know that during the part where we are playing as Abby, we know she intends to maliciously slaughter Ellie's girlfriend and her unborn child simply to stick the knife in a little more. By that point, she already got revenge on Joel, so it comes off as near hypocritical to me. It makes her look worse, and makes me further doubt how well they can pull such a notion off as making us care about Abby in the second half.

      Joel's fight at the end of TLoU1 wasn't a good thing either, but we are least kind of got it because the Fireflies were gonna kill Ellie for what was a 50/50 chance of even getting a cure out of her. At the very least, you had the excuse that Joel was trying to save someone he loved like a daughter. Here, Abby just wants to kill Ellie, her girlfriend, and her girlfriend's daughter, three innocents in this mess solely for the sake of "finishing the job". It's much harder to sympathise with that remotely.

       

    8. Wraith

      Wraith

      Spoiler

      I'm abstaining from giving any definitive judgement on the story. The leaks leave out a lot of information and the false information going around doesn't help. I saw all the leaks and a lot of people are hating the story based on information that isn't confirmed or outright false.

      As an example: Abby does not plan to seek out Ellie after she kills Joel. She has a different goal and is hunted by Ellie and Dinah for the murders of Joel and new character Jessie. The second confrontation between Ellie and Abby is actually instigated by Ellie. Abby doesn't know Dinah is pregnant and hesitates when she finds this out. 

       

       

    9. altum_dolorem

      altum_dolorem

      I know that feeling and once I learned about the leaks, I knew it would happen.

      It's not just one side either. You've also got people claiming the backlash is only because of hate for orientation, sexuality or whatever else while ignoring everything else. I know they will be people that think that way, but from what I've seen, the majority dislike it for the obvious reasons.

      Spoiler

      Obvious reason: Growing attached to characters that get killed off and replaced by their murderer.

       

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