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ThePrinceOfSaiyans

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Everything posted by ThePrinceOfSaiyans

  1. I'm watching SuperMega play KH3, and I find it incredibly distracting that the game rips scenes straight from the older games. It's quite the visual clash, lol.

  2. I'm just as confused coming out of this as I was going in.

     

  3. This is neat.

    Very rough, but it looks like it'd be fun to mess around with.

    1. SupahBerry

      SupahBerry

      Adventure Sonic with boosting is almost as big of a trigger as having a homing attack in Classic games.

      Good thing its not enforced like in Sonic 4.

  4. It's true, from a certain point of view.

     

  5. Having created an archive for all the information available for fusion, I think the majority of Dragon Ball's power scaling problems can be traced back to fusion. 

    1. RedFox99

      RedFox99

      I thought that was transformations' fault.

    2. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      Eh, I'd say fusion is the bigger problem. The Super Exciting Guide at least provides an established hierarchy.

      7005733bad9fdb00f2a59e3240f0f346594bb1c3

      In the wealth of information I could find on fusion, contradictions and vagueries abound. 

    3. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      The problem with power scaling traces back to power levels being an anti-narrative cop-out meant to convince viewers that every new fight is somehow better or more intense than the last and distract from the fact that they all look the same

    4. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      Well, regardless of the problems you might have with power levels being the basis for conflict resolution, internal consistency is important. 

    5. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      It actually really isn't because keeping things consistent in this case makes the entire story predictable and less interesting. It's the same reason newer Star Wars said "fuck you" to midi-chlorians and genetic force powers.

    6. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      No, it absolutely is. If you aren't going to stick to the rules of your universe, I have flat 0 reason to be invested in it. Battle Powers also don't make things predictable. The best you can do is say the strongest guy wins, but that doesn't tell you how the story is going to unfold. Dragon Ball wasn't terribly predictable when all was said and done. It was able to be internally consistent and still surprise you. The battle with Vegeta is a great example. It was full of twists yet remained internally consistent. 

      >Oh no, Vegeta is stronger than Goku's Kaio-ken? What's he gonna do?

      >Oh no, Vegeta became a giant ape, everyone is screwed!

      >Oh no, the Genki Dama didn't work!

      No, Midi-chlorians were avoided because the fans didn't like the fact they demystified the Force. No one cared that it gave Jedi "power levels". Frankly, they didn't even matter much because Jedi battles mostly came down to who could use their lightsaber the most effectively. 

    7. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Quote

      No, it absolutely is. If you aren't going to stick to the rules of your universe, I have flat 0 reason to be invested in it.

      And I already lost a lot of that investment because I knew that nobody was ever going to become strong again through anything other than plot magic. That's what power levels force you to use when every new threat needs to be stronger than the last one and not everyone gets their own fights all the time. You need to write what makes a story engaging. People complain about only Goku and Vegeta mattering, but when your system of power is so toxic that basically only Goku and Vegeta can matter, you either change your system or just let your series stagnate. I have always and will always advocate for completely overhauling the rules of a story for the sake of fixing a problem with it. This is also ignoring that Dragon Ball has always subverted expectations by setting rules for itself and then breaking them.

      Quote

      Battle Powers also don't make things predictable. The best you can do is say the strongest guy wins, but that doesn't tell you how the story is going to unfold.

      That is literally how the story always unfolds. The only twist that ever happens is that someone turns out to be holding back, or just gets stronger. That's why Freeza's second and third forms are completely boring and pointless, he tells you from the outset that he has four in total meaning the rest is just padding. And trying to calculate battle powers is literally trying to predict and analyze the outcome of fights based on perceived numeric value of feats of strength.

      Quote

       The battle with Vegeta is a great example. It was full of twists yet remained internally consistent. 

      And it was the only time that Power levels were sort of utilized effectively (still not the actual numbers because that's complete semantics), because it was about how Goku < Vegeta, but Goku + Krillin + Gohan > Vegeta. No other battle or character in the series uses this for the most part, most of them resort to either breaking the scale (something that happened in your precious untouchable Z as well, I may remind you) or just finding some way to boost the heroes up and inevitably leave everyone else further in the dust. By your logic, the recurring example of Krillin vs. Blue Goku would be completely fine if he just had some kind of magic bullshit super senzu training or whatever that got him up to that level, and if you can stomach a piece of writing that godly fucking stupid, you might as well ignore it altogether because it doesn't even mean anything at that point. Because you can't write a story about Krillin getting back on his fighting game, where Goku just goes mary-blue and beats the  shit out of him. That's a horrible fucking story.

      Quote

      No, Midi-chlorians were avoided because the fans didn't like the fact they demystified the Force. No one cared that it gave Jedi "power levels". Frankly, they didn't even matter much because Jedi battles mostly came down to who could use their lightsaber the most effectively. 

      That's not the point I was making, what Midi-chlorians did was restrict who could use the force, and that's part of the "demystification". It meant that the only people who could use the force were people who were part of a bloodline that already had it. It's why everyone was clamoring to predict that Rey was Luke's daughter, because it literally couldn't have been anyone else without saying "uh oh there was actually some other people left or whatever". It's exactly the same issue as the saiyan characters have, which is why Goten and Trunks got Super Saiyan at age 7 for no real reason, and Gohan keeps having to be magic-ed up via old men, rage boosts and zenkais despite doing so little training.

    8. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      By conceding that battle powers were used effectively in the battle with Vegeta you've conceded that battle powers don't inherently make the story predictable. Whether or not you have a particular problem with how the series has used them before or since doesn't really concern me. Furthermore a story shouldn't be either or. It needs to be engaging AND internally consistent. You can't be one or the other because a lack of one leads a break in the immersion regardless. I happen to think Dragon Ball is engaging despite the fact that battle powers run the show. You may not, but once again, I don't particularly care. 

      Frankly whether or not a story is predictable or not shouldn't matter. I'd say it was pretty obvious the Rebels were going to win by the end of the original trilogy. Is the original Star Wars trilogy now bad because the outcome was predictable? 

      "Trying to calculate battle powers is predicting the outcome of the fights."

      Er, you clearly don't understand the process. People attribute battle power post facto BECAUSE of the constant escalation. In other words the unpredictable nature of this series makes it impossible to project battle powers onto characters until all is said and done. 

      And no, it wouldn't be acceptable to give Kuririn an ass-pull power up. In case you haven't noticed, people don't respond well to incredulous power ups. The story needs to engage it's audience by providing reasons for what happens.  It's also not a horrible story when characters fall behind. Characters can still be useful in ways that don't involve power. Once again, I'll point to the battle with Vegeta, where Yajirobe, the weakest person there, was able to use surprise to cut off Vegeta's tail. There's also Dende who can heal people and restore the Dragon Balls. Blooma can create useful inventions like the Dragon Radar or the time machine. Mr. Satan can get people to contribute to the Genki Dama using his status. Hell, they don't even really need to be useful, they just need to be likable. You seem to like bringing up MHA a lot. Tell me, how often are Mineta, Invisible Girl, and Ican'tstoptwinkling useful? They're usually just there to lighten the mood with gags, no? Not every character has to contribute, they can get by on being gags or characters. Piccolo and Gohan aren't terribly useful these days, all things considered, but their relationship leads to some meaningful scenes a lot of the time because they are likable characters. Just because Goku tends to save the day like he always has doesn't mean the other characters are worthless.

      Also, what? The Force is still limited to those who are Force sensitive. That hasn't changed at all. And you are totally off base with Rey. People were attributing potential parentage to her because of how strong she was with the Force. It's not BECAUSE she had the Force. Honestly though, people were wasting their time with that one. Rey is already broken because even Space Jesus himself, Anakin, had to train to use the Force. Honestly, I wouldn't be using the modern Star Wars trilogy as a positive "retcon"... Even though Midichlorians weren't retconned, they've just been shoved under the rug so to speak. 

    9. Shaddy Zaphod

      Shaddy Zaphod

      Quote

      By conceding that battle powers were used effectively in the battle with Vegeta you've conceded that battle powers don't inherently make the story predictable.

      Uh, no? My only point is that that was the least terrible use of it, not that there weren't better options. You're not gonna pull a "haha that means I win" on me.

      Quote

      Whether or not you have a particular problem with how the series has used them before or since doesn't really concern me.

      Well that's pretty fucking petty then. They're never going to be used effectively and you're going to keep complaining about when the series breaks from them to make something actually interesting? That's kind of sickening.

      Quote

       Furthermore a story shouldn't be either or. It needs to be engaging AND internally consistent. 

      And Dragon Ball has already failed at internal consistency for so many years that it can only hope to grasp the engaging factor. 

      Quote

      Frankly whether or not a story is predictable or not shouldn't matter. I'd say it was pretty obvious the Rebels were going to win by the end of the original trilogy. Is the original Star Wars trilogy now bad because the outcome was predictable? 

      That's not the point. It's about how you get to the outcome, and Dragon Ball is always the same

      Quote

      Er, you clearly don't understand the process. People attribute battle power post facto BECAUSE of the constant escalation. In other words the unpredictable nature of this series makes it impossible to project battle powers onto characters until all is said and done. 

      Because it breaks it's own rules constantly. See where we're going here? It's always been inconsistent because it was never designed with this shit in mind. It's always made with what makes sense for the story (or is "really cool") as the first and only priority, and that includes subverting expectations by changing things up. This was Bleach's big issue, it did the same things over and over with raised numbers. That series has completely consistent scaling as far as I'm aware and it is so fucking booorinnnng.

      Quote

      And no, it wouldn't be acceptable to give Kuririn an ass-pull power up. In case you haven't noticed, people don't respond well to incredulous power ups. The story needs to engage it's audience by providing reasons for what happens.

      Yes, but because of this fetishization of the series' mistakes, there is literally no other way to keep up with Goku. That's why Trunks got rage, that's why Caulifla got SSJ2 in like ten minutes, that's why Gohan got like four ritual boosts that still didn't put him at the limit of his power.

      Quote

       It's also not a horrible story when characters fall behind. Characters can still be useful in ways that don't involve power. Once again, I'll point to the battle with Vegeta, where Yajirobe, the weakest person there, was able to use surprise to cut off Vegeta's tail.

      Yeah, and guess what? That's a break in the power scale. Even if you fudge cutting off Goku's tail with Yamcha being stronger and Goku having no control, Vegeta does have control and his ki is strong enough a sword shouldn't be able to effect him, no? If bullets and missiles can't, then neither should a sword.

      Quote

      There's also Dende who can heal people and restore the Dragon Balls. Blooma can create useful inventions like the Dragon Radar or the time machine. Mr. Satan can get people to contribute to the Genki Dama using his status. Hell, they don't even really need to be useful, they just need to be likable.

      Yeah, but none of those people were ever pushed as fighters with Ki mastery.

      Quote

      You seem to like bringing up MHA a lot. Tell me, how often are Mineta, Invisible Girl, and Ican'tstoptwinkling useful? They're usually just there to lighten the mood with gags, no? Not every character has to contribute, they can get by on being gags or characters.

      Hero Academia is much more than it's fights. It's actual writing, themes, character dynamics and worldbuilding all stand on their own. Dragon Ball's world is hollow, most of it's story was never planned out and constantly overwrites itself, and the fights are the only thing that really ties much of it together. This has been the case ever since it transitioned from being a mostly comedic series.

      Also, I don't particularly like any of those characters in MHA.

      Quote

      Piccolo and Gohan aren't terribly useful these days, all things considered, but their relationship leads to some meaningful scenes a lot of the time because they are likable characters. Just because Goku tends to save the day like he always has doesn't mean the other characters are worthless.

      Except their relationship is founded on and mostly revolves around training and strength, the same way as most things in Dragon Ball. Moreover, the series still clearly wants people to think of them as strong fighters that can hold their own. If that's the role it puts them in then they need to actually follow through with that. If the series was like One Piece, where greater threats and allies relevant to them appear and have a general level of power relative to them but then don't come with the heroes afterward you might have a point.

      Quote

      Also, what? The Force is still limited to those who are Force sensitive. That hasn't changed at all. And you are totally off base with Rey. People were attributing potential parentage to her because of how strong she was with the Force. It's not BECAUSE she had the Force. Honestly though, people were wasting their time with that one. Rey is already broken because even Space Jesus himself, Anakin, had to train to use the Force. Honestly, I wouldn't be using the modern Star Wars trilogy as a positive "retcon"... Even though Midichlorians weren't retconned, they've just been shoved under the rug so to speak. 

      My point is that just like ki, saiyan biology, etc. midichlorians were an unnecessary limitation to the potential of what should be a universe of infinite possibilities. Shrinking the setting, it's what Toriyama does all the time by saying that the first dude Goku trains with is the strongest in the world, but also there's only 27 planets with life in U7, and also Freeza is the strongest dude there, but there's only 12 universes, meaning Jiren is the strongest guy in all of them or whatever. Power levels are the embodiment of limitation forcing narrative escalation, and thus play a big part in DB's writing being kind of crappy.

      Quote

      More or less. If it isn't both internally consistent and engaging then the payoffs are not interesting or satisfying, full stop.

      Yet I gave up on it making perfect sense way earlier in the series than you did.

      Quote

      Not completely, no. You can't really expect that when Toriyama didn't have a plan. That said, I do think the parts that aren't are poorly written. The problem I have with modern Dragon Ball is that it's significantly more vague, contradictive, and incredulous. The original run of the series had problems, plenty of them when it came to anime only stuff, but Dragon Ball Super has more numerous and more significant problems.

      And I don't feel there's much of a difference. I mean, Super has a lot of more important problems in regard to character writing and general story-crafting, but breaking from the power scale is breaking from the power scale, and it's almost always been done because the power scale itself is bad. Treating one example as somehow more egregious than another when it's practically a part of the series' identity just comes off as glorifying a particular part of it for reasons other than it just being good.

    10. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      I've got better stuff to do than talk about the merits of power scaling all day, so we'll simply have to agree to disagree on most of this. I will address few points before I resign.

      "You're going to continually criticize the series for ignoring internal consistency for interesting/satisfying payoffs."

      More or less. If it isn't both internally consistent and engaging then the payoffs are not interesting or satisfying, full stop.

      "The series isn't internally consistent."

      Not completely, no. You can't really expect that when Toriyama didn't have a plan. That said, I do think the parts that aren't are poorly written. The problem I have with modern Dragon Ball is that it's significantly more vague, contradictive, and incredulous. The original run of the series had problems, plenty of them when it came to anime only stuff, but Dragon Ball Super has more numerous and more significant problems.

  6. Dragon Ball Xenoverse is the Dragon Ball equivalent of Kingdom Hearts. submit status

    1. 8ther

      8ther

      Unrelated to Xenoverse but..

      _________ is an amazing character designer, but a terrible story writer. You can fill the blank with ether Nomura or Toriyama and it'll still hold true

    2. Polkadi~☆

      Polkadi~☆

      You can put many comic book, graphic novel, webcomic and manga artists in that blank spot.

    3. The Tenth Doctor

      The Tenth Doctor

      Na, to understand Xenoverse you don't need to play games across every console. Also the plot is nowhere near as convuluted.

  7. I put together an archive of all the information I could find on the mechanics of fusion in the Dragon Ball series.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vQaRdhrdJrSeYj-srB5vxc5a2DQeYOUEd_fs1w7lRM4JYeYGidrknBnhVYKQq80W_SLKwhgX59lYCzj/pub

  8. Finished Jiren's and Videl's combo challenges.

    1. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Oh, they’re out already? Great, can finally get back into this game. That first round of DLC just took me right out.

  9. You'll find my answer in the replies, lol.

  10. Piranha Plant is amusing.

  11. Thou shalt not defile the grave of the King of Pop.

     

  12. Unpopular gaming opinions

     

  13. Dragon Ball: Project Z trailer

     

    1. Blacklightning

      Blacklightning

      Looks alright but I really wish they'd stop rehashing the entire anime's plot verbatim. It's incredibly tired and stale and it's only gotten more glaring every time they do it.

    2. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      I mean, it's been half a decade since they've retold the story, and all these "original stories" have kinda sucked anyway, so it doesn't bother me in the slightest. 

    3. Ferno

      Ferno

      The DBZ story- THIS TIME IN *insert console gen here* GRAPHICS

    4. Spin Attaxx

      Spin Attaxx

      On the one hand, it looks interesting, but on the other... yeah, it does seem to be another "Raditz to Buu, maybe some Super or GT, what the fuck is an OG Dragon Ball" game.

    5. Harkofthewaa

      Harkofthewaa

      Lookin an awful lot like Xenoverse 3 there.

    6. TCB

      TCB

      I'll be nice to have a DBZ game akin to the new one piece game far as it's own little contained plot or whatever

    7. Adamabba

      Adamabba

      Looks pretty neat so far.  Gotta see some more gameplay footage

    8. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Eh, looks pretty meh so far if I'm being honest. Outside of being glad that they're sticking to Fighterz's way of rendering out the characters, I'm still not really sold on anything else.

      Especially with this being yet another retread of Z. Look, I get it, the few original stories they have tried for these games haven't been hits (though I don't care what anyone says, I still want 21 in the new series don't@me) but this is the same way I feel about things when it comes to Sonic. They ain't going to get better if they stop trying. It has not been that long since they retold the story and there are only so many more times I can sit through the same scenes getting played out but with a new coat of paint before the impact of it all dulls out completely.

    9. Ferno

      Ferno

      i cant wait to see GOKU-*boom* for the million time

    10. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      The original video games stories won't improve. Dragon Ball Super itself is struggling to tell engaging stories. The video games don't have a chance as far as I'm concerned. 

    11. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      Dear lord, I just realized something too. This is a gd rpg... This is probably going to be substantially longer than your average game.

      You're telling me that there's going to be next to nothing new in a story for a game like this? ... yikes

      @ThePrinceOfSaiyansAgain, rather them keep trying than just fall back on the same story for the dozenth time which, in itself, wasn't perfect.

    12. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      It wasn't perfect, but it's leaps and bounds better than these attempts to shake things up. They can keep trying all they want. I don't have faith in their ability to improve, especially when games are about the game, not the story. 

    13. Strickerx5

      Strickerx5

      @ThePrinceOfSaiyansLeaving out my usual "I'd rather have the complete package rather than just one part of it in a $60 game. No matter how important that one part is" stance, this is an rpg. I'd argue that story is still... pretty vital in this case.

    14. Blacklightning

      Blacklightning

      Okay but hear me out here: DBZ is three decades old.

      People have always been engaged in Dragon Ball more for the fights and the setpiecing more than the plot itself, and I don't think there's any shame in admitting that even if it would be a welcome bonus - and that being said, we've literally seen all of this shit before. It's really hard to get invested in stuff when you already know how it ends, and moments that were once iconic in the sphere of anime have just been milked to death to the point that I think you can accurately make Green Hill parallels now.

      Ultimate Tenkaichi might have been a huge dumpster fire overall, but the way Hero Mode utilized the existing characters was a huge breath of fresh air and it's honestly a crying shame that it didn't happen in a better game. We need more of that.

    15. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      Eh, I'm gonna need to see some statistics when you start throwing around assertions like "people care more about the fighting than the story telling."

      I don't have any problems getting invested in the Star Wars original trilogy despite seeing it a hundred times. It's also been 5 years since we've experienced the original story in an era where we've experienced Super and these new game stories, so for ME this is a breath of fresh air. Years of crap and I finally get something tried and true.

    16. Blacklightning

      Blacklightning

      ...considering the Shonen archetypes that DB practically pioneered I honestly can't tell if you're being serious with this.

  14. Jiren, Videl+Saiyaman, Base DBS Broli and SSGSS Gogeta are coming to FighterZ.

     

    1. ThePrinceOfSaiyans
    2. The Tenth Doctor

      The Tenth Doctor

      Videl looks adorable XD

    3. Kuzu the Boloedge

      Kuzu the Boloedge

      I'm glad they're using Base Broly instead of his Super Saiyan form

    4. Rusty Spy

      Rusty Spy

      If Jiren doesn't get banned from tourneys for being too op I'll be disappointed

    5. ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      ThePrinceOfSaiyans

      Same. I do hope they start doing costumes though so they can recreate the SSGSS Gogeta vs Legendary Super Saiyan Broli fight. 

    6. Tornado

      Tornado

      Pre-Tron Bonne Videl

      : O

  15. Ocarina of Time's finale has yet to be topped in another Zelda game, IMO.

    1. Blue Blood

      Blue Blood

      It's a great climax. Breath of the Wild's is incredibly meh...

    2. Adamabba

      Adamabba

      I liked Wind Waker's more. Skyward Sword is second

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