ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Indigo Rush in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
The concept of Sonic is a really appealing one.
Small wise-cracking little blue pin cushion saves the world from robotic dystopia by rolling around in a ball, bopping on top of technicolor ladybugs at the speed of mach 1, also bouncing like a pinball and collects golden rings and multicolored beryl gems in surreal fantasy and sci-fi settings and occasionally stands on top of a red and white De Havilland Moth family biplane and also sometimes goes into space and turns into a golden super saiyan angel-like god of lightspeed to stop a clownish dictator that is modeled loosely after Teddy Roosevelt and a song from the Beatles and looks like an egg and names all of his deadly robots after eggs. His best friend is a yellow fox with two tails and can also fly with them, and his other friend is a red monotreme with spikes on his fists and listens to rap music.
Sounds like a good time to me.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Blue Blood in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
That picture does sorely miss the point. Frost has to maintain a level of professionalism even if he's no longer connected to SEGA and Sonic Boom. The TV show and toy line have seen moderate success as well. It's only his comments about the games that are really the cause of any controversy, and it would be foolish to expect him to come out and say "yeah those games sucked and everyone hated them and it's not my fault". Partially because of the aforementioned professionalism, partially because he worked on them for years and probably has more positive things to say. It's really in his best interest not to slag off Boom and instead highlight the positives.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Komodin in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
To be frank, all this picture does is make it difficult for me to take these "articles" seriously. Mean-spirited things like this are just really rather awful.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Lady Soniko in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
I have absolutely no faith in the franchise at all, what little I do care for I cling to for the memories they provide, I honestly think Black Knight and the Spin off racers were my last enjoyment in this franchise. Generations doesn't count since it's still a mish mash of former Sonic nostalgia, but Sonic Colours and especially SLW was the final nail in the coffin for me, I honestly am past caring and fighting for the series because to me, in it's current state and direction it seems to be going it's un-salvageable.
I await news of the big next gen game coming to see if this changes anything but within my experience? I doubt it will. My prime time was Adventure era and I've had at least some beef with every instalment in the modern series to begin with, Sonic just isn't what I remembered it being to me any more.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Gabz Girl in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
It's difficult for me to NOT be cynical about Sonic because as Sami, Verte and Kuzu mentioned already the series is just not the same anymore. This isn't the Sonic I fell in love with all those years ago but a shadow of gameplay cliches and copying off other, better platformers like Mario. The lacklustre stories, boost2win and sola Sonica started to get tiring even when Generations came out and I won't be surprised if the next game ends up much the same.
Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom were the last straw for me and I've lost almost all interest in any forthcoming Sonic games. Fuck the SEGA PR who've said for all these years "we know Sonic, we know his roots blablabla" because it's all BS!
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Vertekins in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
My sentiments are pretty much the same as Sami's.
I feel cynical about the Sonic series as it is today...specifically over the past five years... because it's lost so, so much of it's heart.
What do I mean by "heart"?
Basically what encapsulates Sonic to me as a series - An action-adventure-platformer series with awesome likeable characters who endeared themselves to me due to writing that handled them competently, contrasting gameplay styles that melded into the game design well and a world that had fantasy and realistic elements in balance.
But where has that sense of adventure and environmental scope gone? The places that gave me the impression that Sonic and his friends were part of a living world? They've all been replaced by lazy stage select screens like this;
Take a look at that act select.
Where is the sense of connection between areas of Starlight Carnival? All I see is a bunch of portals to various acts dumped into a select screen with no grace or substance to it in any real form.
Contrast to Sonic Adventure in which each act had it's own sensical entry area in it's respective adventure field and an established connection between each said adventure field i.e The train connecting Station Square with Mystic Ruin, the boat/wooden raft connecting Station Square/Mystic Ruin to the Egg Carrier. Characters had good reasons within their respective stories to enter action stages, making the stages themselves relevant.
That act select screen in Colours as well as it's various gimmicky acts between you and the generator looks completely half-assed by comparison. Even fucking Sonic 3/Sonic & Knuckles, a 21 year old game on the Mega Drive went one better than that by showing Sonic, Tails or Knuckles proceeding from one area of Angel Island to the next at the end of each act and each zone, giving off the full impression that these guys are making progress through Angel Island to get at the Death Egg and have purposeful reasons to go where they go. And it's even accomplished without speech establishing it.
Another issue is that Sonic's world as a setting has pretty much been forsaken over the past few years almost as if Sonic Team are adverse to the idea of actually making use of the environments that lended Sonic a sense of identity in favor of locations in outer space that come right the fuck outta nowhere and whatsmore have absolutely no scope or substance established about them. What is this "Lost Hex"? Why is it "lost"? Why does Tails express familiarity with it and that never get expanded upon? Why does the planet show signs of civilization and yet said civilization is never seen let alone explained? Why is it made out of hexagons and look as if much of it's "crust" is missing?
You never do find out because the narrative is more focused on irrelevant blabber, Tails acting like a whiny, self entitled brat and Sonic and the Deadly Six trash talking.
I'm not friggin' asking for elaboration of the likes seen in complex novels, all I'm asking for is basic freaking CONTEXT. Some extremely basic worldbuilding to lend the story's settings depth. You know, even the most basic of writing concepts.
Which leads me onto another subject...
The regression of the writing quality.
Now the series writing as it was pre-2010 wasn't exactly flawless by any definition but it showed big signs of improvement as time went by and it was blatantly obvious to me that by Black Knight, Sonic Team had writers who really knew how to write Sonic as a character well and who could give a genuine feel of...agency to the characters, realism, sympathy. Sonic game stories had actual themes, moralistic and symbolic. For example...
- SA had good messages of standing on your own two feet and garnering oneself self-confidence and the drive to improve oneself. It also shows the folly of greed. Knuckles' people lost practically everything because their chieftain was a warmongering douchebag who was hungry for power even though he was already at the top of the political food chain and his people were already supported well.
- SA2 despite it's dark tone (Which is overblown by it's detractors) still incorporated themes of rebellion against authority figures for the greater good i.e Sonic and co against GUN and the police, Shadow against Gerald's plan. It also had the theme regarding realizing ones true purpose and living up to it.
- Heroes exposited the value of teamwork.
- Rush got cross the idea that it's unwise to shoulder the burden of tremendous responsibility solely by yourself and to not reject help when it's offered to you.
- Battle showed how a person can be influenced positively and negatively by those around them i.e Emerl's character growth.
- '06...as terrible as it was written in general inarguably put-across the concept of loyalty to your friends and gave Silver an admittedly interesting moral dilemma - "Is killing one person to save the world really the right thing to do?"
- SatSR had themes regarding fighting fate, self-sacrifice and forgiveness
- Unleashed had a prevailing theme regarding the contrasting yet necessary concepts of light and dark, night and day, death and rebirth.
- SatBK had themes regarding to asserting ones own morality in regards to their actions and standing up for what you feel is right regardless of what other may think of you for doing so.
Have Sonic games since had stories that incorporated themes like that that enhanced the characters and story?
Colours didn't have any meaningful themes and morals and certainly nothing we hadn't already seen before. Any chance for elaborating on such things were shafted sideways by the fixation on "jokes", characters standing in one spot and prattling on about mundane or annoying things.
Generations' story is practically non-existent and the cutscenes that are there are once again dominated by prattle instead of anything even remotely interesting.
Lost World tries this whole "tragedy of impulsiveness" with Sonic and tries so very, very hard to make Tails this poor little disregarded lamb and it crashes and burns horrifically with both due to bad execution. What bothers me about Lost World's attempt at a message is that it's so contradictory - Pontac went on record to say that "One mistake doesn’t make someone an idiot. It’s how they DEAL with the mistake that makes them a hero."
Am I missing something with Sonic here then? Because I'm pretty sure that going for not only that Conch but also that trap capsule when Tails told him to lay off both of them perfectly audibly comes off as pretty idiotic to me. Not only that but we hear Sonic himself merely say that "It bites" when he asserts how he put the world in danger due to his stupidity. That doesn't come off to me as heroically dealing with your own mistake. That's just self-deprecation.
Or is it a reference to the bullshit that Sonic was in the wrong when it came to "doubting" Tails (...which he never did anyway) hence that was the "mistake" Pontac is referencing?
Or could this be in reference to Tails in that Crabmeat-Cubot cutscene in which he makes a mistake but doesn't deal with it heroically and instead just plumbs for pity?
I could write quite a few pragraphs to explain why that whole slant with Sonic and with Tails was executed in what was probably the worst possible way but I'll just state that it failed pretty much completely.
Sonic game stories today just don't have that "oomph" that previous games had in regards to their content and messages.
Sonic today is a shadow of his former self.
The guy who did things as hardcore as escaping captivity by jumping out of a helicopter thousands of feet in the sky and then making it back down to terra firma with just a part of said aircraft's wing, flashing that trademark grin as he does so with not a care in the world;
Who decimated hordes of robots onboard Eggman's mothership and tore through his fleet like a hot knife through butter;
Who stated outright that he wasn't going to stand there and tolerate Merlina's expressing of her own sorrow at the future of her world and her disregard for everyone else in her efforts to escape that one-sided sadness, who vocally and physically expressed his opposition to her intention to create hell for the Grand Kingdom's people to escape fate. Who was told it was futile to resist yet still went at it anyway;
Who plopped his blue ass down on Erazor's throne as if he owned the entire damn palace even after he was told he'd never have his wishes granted and then started bossing the dude around anyway, treating him like he was his bitch and then having the balls to condemn him for eternity to his lamp and then dispose of him for good measure;
Where the hell did that Sonic go!? A character so awesome, so impactful, so badass? Whose attitude was conveyed in such a cool and characteristic way?
Sadly, he's been replaced by some arrogant jackass jock who hardly ever shuts the fuck up about how "awesome" he is instead of, you know, actually showing it like he does in those instances above. And he fails at it, making him come off as try hard and irritating. In those above examples, did Sonic ever need to go on and on about how he's going to kick arse? About how he wasn't sure he was going to pull it off in those instances shown above even jokingly? No! Because his actions spoke enough for him! That is one of the things what gave Sonic his impact as a character - He walked the walk but talked the talk when it was necessary. He had a veritable shitload of self-confidence in what he did and pulled off what he did with deftness and style.
Pontac and Graff have practically no grasp of this. Instead, they've molded him into this obnoxious twat who's all prattle this and prattle that and as a result he hardly ever has room to branch-out with his...."deeper" traits such as his interesting outlook on heroism and morality and such. Gone is the Hedgehog's quirks and much of his likeability. Much of what endeared me to him personally has been thrown out the window in favor of a vastly inferior, vastly less interesting interpretation that simply doesn't do the character justice.
Now don't get me wrong here. I do think Sonic should be allowed to trash talk. He is a cheeky little shit at heart filled with irreverance and some level of arrogance and showboating has always been a part of Sonic's character. Problem is that nowadays it consumes him, leaves little room for other aspects of the characters personality to show themselves, traits that make Sonic so awesome to me. The traits and made me love him so much. And it's such a shame. Sonic can be so much more than what he is as of current. And he deserves better.
Solo-Sonica is holding back the series.
Yeah Sonic is cool and all. I like playing as him.
But you know what Sonic Team?
He's not the only character who exists. Believe it or not.
For the past 24 years you've created all these cool characters who have their own distinct abilities that have proven themselves to hold large amounts of potential in regards to both narrative and gameplay. Not to mention their fandoms who would probably kill to see them be relevant in a Sonic game again instead of being delegated to being a walking toolkit (Tails) or cheerleader squad (The rest)
The games could be so much more if that was capitalized-upon.
So why won't you realize this?
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Kuzu in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
I know some will call it "blind nostalgia", well no fucking shit its nostalgia. Its nostalgic because it was a point in the series where people felt it had its own identity instead of riding on the coattails of what's popular.
It feels like Sonic Team don't want to make Sonic games, they want to make games and slap Sonic's face on it and call it a Sonic game. Its not even like I feel the games are bad, they're fun and perfectly functional games and that is honestly what the series needed after putting out shovelware for years, but there is absolutely no excuse for games like Sonic Colors being considered the standard for this series in this day and age.
So now we're stuck with games that barely know what they want to be in terms of design and just feel like a haphazard compilation of generic platforming tropes that exist just because its a video game. No cohesion of narrative exists, but it sure does act like it does. Anything that made the series feel like..well, Sonic, no longer exist or have been severely downplayed.
I don't wanna come off like I'm complaining, but I'm just honestly listing my real thoughts here; there's really nothing I care about these games that don't already exist in better games( liek Mario :V) and anything unique it could have, Sonic Team just don't want to try.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Sami in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
I HOPE Y'ALL LIKE PICTURES
The Sonic I actually enjoy passionately enough to talk about excitedly has been dead for well over a decade now, so I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to feel other than cynicism. My two favorite games in the series by far are Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure - games that practically go hand in hand with each other since the latter's core design revolves almost entirely around expanding upon what gave the former its identity.
I love having memorable hub worlds that flesh out and ground the world Sonic lives in,
I love having multiple playable characters that are all treated as individuals and are all more than capable of solving their own problems by themselves,
I love having engaging stories that introduce new elements to the series lore and try their best to provide some twists and turns beyond "Sonic beats up the robots and makes fart jokes",
I love the flashy pomp vibe those games had,
I love the effort taken into looking truly visually impressive,
and so on and so on and so on.
On the flip side.
I hate world maps.
I hate weird floating obstacle courses in the sky.
I hate weird dumb gamey shit taking me out of the experience, padding the game, stopping me from going to the next real level all while shouting "BEEP BOOP YOU ARE PLAYING A VIDEO GAME PLEASE PRESS X TO SELECT MENU"
I hate weird dumb gimmicks in the core mechanics that are just... weird, and dumb.
I hate weird dumb level gimmicks that are just really weird and dumb.
I hate stories that try to make me take them seriously at the climax when they've done literally nothing to earn it and have stupid shit like
I hate when Sonic Team sabotages what could have been good games with ideas about on par with a six year old playing Mad Libs.
I can go on.
And I mean, of course I can go on. There are literally only two mainline Sonic games I actually enjoy after SA1. Hell, there are only four in total I actually enjoy after SA1. Rush (and before anyone tries to grill me on this - different expectations on handhelds), Colors, Generations, and Riders.
Like, alright. People wanna be positive. Cool. You do you. Don't tell me how to feel though. Even if I completely ignore the decade of trash we got after SA1, that leaves a handful of games that are good at best and garbage at worst.
We have no idea what direction the series is going to take next, but the only indication we really have is what the last big Sonic Team game did. Lost World. Lost World isn't a Sonic game to me. It's just not. This new direction SEGA Sonic wants to take is a poor man's Mario expy wearing Sonic cosplay. That shit isn't Sonic.
Sonic 3 and SA1 are Sonic, and the only games we've gotten since then that tried to capture that again have both fallen flat on their faces.
I'm cynical because I feel like Sonic Team doesn't even like Sonic at this point. They don't want to make Sonic games - they want to make Mario games. This current direction is turning Sonic into something he's not for me. It throws away all the conventions and identifiable traits that made me love Sonic. As someone who's really not a fan of Mario, it's aggravating beyond belief.
Make a fucking Sonic game.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to azoo in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
It's fine you don't mind it (I don't mind some of the different gameplay styles either), but I'm not gonna sugarcoat. This is not how you run a well-established game series. v:
It's one thing to bring some variety to the table. Take Mario, for example (I can hear the groans already). Mario's had games dedicated to obtaining loads of extraneous power ups, riding dinosaurs, doing missions in sandbox maps, doing that plus a water jet pack, going into space and running on abstract surfaces, and the list will continue to go on and on and expand. His games get crazy!
But even then, Mario has this.. consistency. His games are all about acrobatic jumping, playing with object physics, and stage puzzles that require taking advantage of not only his natural moveset but also the surplus amount of power ups. Every Mario game is about this, and even if the games have minor mechanical changes made to them, you could almost jump from one Mario game to the next and not tell the difference. And that's good! Because all of Mario's game design philosophies make for a brilliant series of games! There's a reason it's such a success, after all, it's not all in the nostalgia.
Now, compare this to Sonic. What kind of consistent formula does Sonic follow?
He's blue. He runs fast. Jumps and homing attacks. Collects rings. Ocassionally some other superficial bits that serve as nostalgia-pandering to cling onto.
The series has this problem where it's constantly trying to change itself in fear of stagnation, whenever that's the reason it fails so much. It's a constant reinvention that has no idea what it was to begin with, and will either take superficial elements and apply them without knowing how they worked, or making something completely new that doesn't have the same lasting factor. And even if it does have lasting factor, it doesn't matter because they'll throw it out again anyway!
The series hasn't managed to make a main game with the same ideals it had to begin with (momentum-based fluid movement, slopey level design, stages built around using your physics to your advantage) since Sonic Adventure 2, and the series hasn't managed to make alternate gameplay styles that compliment it since Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Did all passion for making something that works just blow out the window?
Why can't they go back to something like this and make their footing? It's my question above all else. Especially since it was the formula to some of their most critically acclaimed and financially successful games ever. If they can just go back to something like it (or just it would be nice) then maybe then they can worry about doing crazy things like making Sonic a werewolf, or putting him in space, or anything like that.
Sorry. This is a ramble that I've been needing to do for a while since my posts of me doing it before have been wiped.
I just don't get it. I don't understand what's so hard about them grasping Sonic's positives and doing something with it. You know what, who knows! Maybe they will get it someday. Maybe. They're very unpredictable that way.
I don't know why I keep trying to convince myself they will one of these decades, but I guess it lightens the blow a bit.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Nepenthe in Dr. Strangehog, or How I Learned to Stop Being Cynical and Just Enjoy Sonic Games (aka The Cynicism Topic)
I don't personally feel that my cynicism has transformed into anything akin to hate. To be specific, it's more of a self-preserving apathy. Why bother to get personally invested in seeing something that would be more in the vain of what I'd like, if what I like has been spit upon not only by the Sonic community but by the general public at large for around seven to eight years, if not longer? It seems foolish at that point to even bother hoping.
I don't think that Sonic will die, nor do I even think it's been close to some particularly apocalyptic scenario as much as people try to put across. And in general, I still like Sonic. I like the games I like, I like the aesthetics, I like the characters, I like some of the cartoons and Boom TV show, and I like him enough to devote enough time to arguing and creating art about him. I don't view this as being Stockholm'd; there is still genuinely a lot to like about the franchise regardless of one person's perceived quality of the current crop of games we're getting. I've just that I've had to step back from being invested in them.
In general, it's easier to crack jokes and be a grump than to deal with the fallout of excessive disappointment in a company that clearly doesn't care what you think enough to cater to you.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Sami in The "What the HECK Is A 2016 Sonic" Prophecy Thread (two topics from the pre-server wipe in one!)
I want to be a big step closer to playing the Unleashed opening. Here's hoping.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to SuperLink in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
Good points but, I'm pretty sure Sonic and SEGA's struggle to remain relevant has far more to do with consistent game quality than pushing hardware. Sonic fans remember Unleashed for its amazing visuals and subjectively ok story, but most other gamers remember it for having a Werehog and continuing the Sonic Cycle, barely even acknowledging its visuals.
If I could wish for SEGA to do one thing it would be to make a good game, each and every time, before becoming too concerned with flashy tech. I don't think it's unreasonable to want SEGA and Sonic Team to focus on that either. The visuals being good are useless if it doesn't establish Sonic as a consistently good game that is worth having faith in, and I really don't think they're going to do that??
I mean, Sonic was created in the first place to /beat/ Mario right? Not to have better graphics than him, but to beat him. Flash was only one factor in that, gameplay was probably the most important reason Sonic was ever able to "beat" Mario.
As things stand though? Nintendo spends less money and time developing better Mario games than SEGA spend to make worse Sonic games. Nintendo's Mario games make so much more money it's not even funny and because of that Mario is "beating" Sonic regardless of how pretty Sonic's game is. How can Sonic "beat" Mario and stay relevant? By being a bloody good game that people can have faith in, not with a superficial display of hardware power that'll impress people for maybe a year but not get them to stay because the game still isn't as good as Super Mario 64.
On the prior point: ironically Mario games were always much longer and bigger. Sonic games excelled on gameplay, not content or size.
On the latter: I really don't think, gameplay-wise, there's anything that the PS4 and XBO can do to make Sonic good that the Wii U/360/PS3 couldn't. Sonic and tech went hand in hand where it was necessary, but tech has been more than good enough for Sonic for a long time now, it's SEGA and Sonic Team who can't keep up, absolutely not the other way around.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Sami in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
An important point worth noting here though is that Sonic is still SEGA's flagship franchise and to this day sells in the million range fairly regularly. The low budget, critically panned, financially disappointing Sonic Lost World still managed to pull off a decent enough 710k units in the end, Generations hit over a million and a half, and even the absolutely awful Sonic Boom somehow managed 490k (one of the lowest selling games in the series).
The entertainment industry has thrived on big hits for decades now, and Sonic is one of the very few franchises left that SEGA can comfortably invest in with that in mind. With every passing game these days though, that comfort grows less and less sustainable. The launch of a new console generation always has been and always will be the absolute best time to turn heads with a franchise revitalization - SEGA knows this and has done it numerous times with Sonic (with varying success, obviously) alone in the past.
My argument does not apply to every game out there - not at all. I wouldn't even say it applies to any other SEGA franchises at this point bar maybe Aliens. But I do insist that Sonic benefits greatly from advancements in technology, much more than Mario does for instance.
Looking back on Sonic's history, the series has always thrived on pomp and flash to differentiate itself from its competitors. Both the game design and advertising reflect this - with Sonic 1 giving us the different Zones, all with completely original visuals, music, and tone, to Sonic 3 pushing the envelope for platformers in scale, storytelling, and content, all the way to Sonic Adventure with its high speed, flashy camera work, and graphically impressive setpieces.
Sonic's entire identity is founded upon a flashy, edgy persona. It's been that way from the beginning. Likewise, advancements in technology have propelled the series forward in new ways from Sonic 1 all the way down to Generations. Sonic and tech have gone hand in hand ever since Yuji Naka took advantage of the Genesis CPU to craft a physics engine that wasn't possible on the rival console.
Sonic and SEGA's biggest problem right now are fading relevancy in the industry as a whole. There's only so much that can be done on Wii U that wasn't already possible five years ago with Sonic Unleashed or Generations, but if SEGA does intend to make Sonic relevant again I think putting a gamble on another truly ambitious Unleashed-tier game would pay off massively, just as it has in the past with the Adventure series.
Of course, as has been pointed out, we don't know if that's what SEGA actually wants, nor do we know if Sonic Team is up to the task. That's a fair assessment. That said though, my personal assumption, based off of the massive multimedia push Sonic Boom got and the millions of dollars invested in it, is that SEGA still intends for Sonic to be their hit franchise, and intend to fund that with their more consistent mobiles profits.
If that is the case, I firmly believe that ditching Wii U and innovating the franchise once again with a brand new style (both from a game design and visual perspective) that truly takes advantage of modern technology will pay off for them once again - just as it did with the Adventure games, and just as it did with Unleashed. If the quality is really there, that style and technology can be utilized again and again in the future, and the franchise can hopefully continue on the trajectory it seemed to be setting itself on when Generations was awarded its favorable reception and successful sales.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Carbo in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
Saying that a Sonic game would be good enough when managed on the lower hardware we have is an expectations argument. Saying that a Sonic game would be inherently better on powerful hardware is a semantics argument.
Better hardware allows for better stuff to be done? No shit. You don't need a master's degree in order to suss that one out. Problem is you're not exactly dealing with people who are known for setting regular house calls at the federal reserve. Game development is expensive. Game development is also daunting. It took Sega over a decade to find a formula in 3D that was anywhere near as revered as the Adventure games even though logistically they had more room than ever to improve with the evolution and understanding of the hardware they had to deal with. For a while, Secret Rings was lauded as the only good Sonic game in it's last five years of existence, even though that wasn't exactly saying much and it was a game scrambled together with the adversity of more powerful hardware looming over their heads and a much more powerful (*snort*) Sonic game in development.
"Super Mario 3D World would be better on better hardware"? I mean sure, if all it means to you is an up port that accommodates for really just basic resolution (1080p is about the only improvement that game "needs") but other than that, I don't think that's the case. Claiming a game would be inherently better in any substantial way on account of better hardware ignores everything surrounding design and actual workload that is required to accommodate to that hardware, at least on a level that you can say where it's not being "held back" by older consoles. Matthewmatosis did a review of 3D World recently (a video I highly suggest people watch) where he points out that the liberties that Nintendo had to take with making the aesthetical standpoint less profound as the Galaxy games have in general given a large focus back to pure and instantly memorable level design. There was more levels the game had to offer than ever, it never really got stale and always had something new to offer, all of which was kept within the confines of it's basic game play. And even then the graphics never actually had to pay that much of a price when subtle design effects and even well thought out graphical details beyond the art style made everything pop so well, so much to the point that it even looked better than its current gen competitors in some aspects. And all of this was maintained in the most silky smooth framerate ever, even when four players were running rampant on screen (which could turn into 8 on account of double cherries).
Meanwhile, an incredible overestimation in scale and technology brought vapid experiences like Ryse and The Order 1886 to the table. Which is to say nothing of the trend of constantly remastering last generation games on new consoles, further emphasizing that the console gap this time around is much less of a big deal as almost all games right now are not doing anything that would be impossible on the last generation, other than more polished performance, and the ones that theoretically "aren't possible" like the above are ones that cripple game play for it. It's probably not fair to use examples like that when this generation is in it's relative infancy (even though chances are we're going to go back to shorter generational cycles) but I can't think of many other egregious examples this generation of games where developers heavily overestimated themselves on account of tech. But to be frank; that seemed to be a such a dime a dozen in the previous generation where more development companies went bankrupt, downsized or liquidated than any generation prior, simply on account of overestimating what they could do with their products. That was one of the most damning trends seen last generation and it's definitely not going to relent now.
There is some asterisks to be applied to the above reasonings though. For one thing, none of the above should be misconstrued to assume that we should "never switch consoles" or anything of the sort if good games can be done on lower hardware. I primarily game on PC these days where the hardware is always evolving to support better experiences (which is already miles ahead of anything PS4/XBO achieves), and developers are going to switch what games they make consoles for primarily because newer consoles is where the money is at. As for the other thing, particularly in regards to the paragraph about 3D World, that is a Nintendo game. That means that in terms of production values and budgets, they're going to be a cut above the rest, and chances are that if they had better hardware to design a killer experience around, they would. But that game would not be 3D World, and most importantly in the general analogy, Sega aren't Nintendo. Nintendo isn't an anemic company currently wallowing in their own stumps. If Sega are going to sink all of their chips into making an experience that people are expecting to not maintain any sort of restraint, that is a risky gamble. I can't really emphasize the "Game deving is hard" comment that I made earlier enough either; there are a metric ton of factors as to why that has become increasingly transparent these days with developer accounts and personal experiences. For a company like Sega, if they were to design a game that could cover all current hardware in an optimal rate, that would be their best bet, as it would be low cost and fairly encompassing. It'd at least be a much safer bet for them than designing an experience that can "only be done" on a console with the same power as a PS4 (which you guys have to realize; wouldn't mean just downgrading the game if it had a Wii U port, but also downgrading it if it had an XBO port).
But if tech talk is all that matters then it's all the more important to remember that technology isn't just there to tell you what you can do, it's there to inform you of what you can't do. This is especially true in game design and a lot of the potential "what if's" are not exactly grounded in the best frame of reference to pull from.
Solkia raises the best point in the thread probably but that's because Generations had the opportunity to have most of it's general engine done around the time Sega still had a lot of leeway with these things, and since the PC version of Generations didn't need worry too much about optimizing itself. It's still a game (and engine) that is heavily damaged by it's overestimation of itself meaning so many large levels that end up not accounting for much, and you can tell most of the development time went into the first half of the game where not a lot of assets could be reused. They scrambled the entire Sonic Team development staff for the sake of putting out a game within two years that wasn't even particularly huge, which should say something about how hard it is to develop a Sonic game, and how flawed the formula generally was to deal with. It's no wonder they decided to go for another switch really, even though Generations had the only remotely lauded formula the series has had since Genesis. It's just not a very sustainable formula, one which effectively served as a dead end.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Brad in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
Are you living on a different planet or something? There is a big power disparity. We're talking four times the RAM and superbly more powerful CPU and GPU. It literally does not matter if Sonic Team knows the Wii U hardware well enough, you cannot just port that and expect everything to be hunky dory for all.
We want a game that takes full advantage of the most powerful consoles on the market. That will not make a satisfying experience for all consoles if aimed to be the exact same game for all. There's a reason Sonic and the Secret Rings ended up being its own title.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Diamond Sonic in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
I particularly love it when Frost alludes to how the team might have overlooked the speed element in Sonic Boom. That speed wasn't high on the priority list of how to make a Sonic game. Completely hysterical.
Imagine if the new DmC team didn't think a spectacle fighter would be important for making the new DmC. Imagine if the Rayman Origins team didn't think maybe it might be worth putting platforming as the lead design choice. Hell, imagine if the new Call of Duty was designed by a team who thought fast-paced shooting wasn't important for the title.
How did SEGA think it was a good idea to give their most important, and fragile, franchise to a team who knew nothing about the core philosophy of the series.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Sami in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
I'll pass thanks
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to TimmiT in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
I've only read the article on the front page about this (personally don't like SEGANerds so not sure if I will listen to the podcast), but even with the added context it sounds like he's being dishonest. Like they barely tried to "capture speed" aside from adding bad Temple Run sections that felt like they were part of a different game. And he's talking as if they were being incredibly ambitious, while the final game wasn't much more than a buggy generic PS2 game. It could understand them being ambitious if a lot of stuff was cut (which it likely was), but Stephen specifically talks about them being ambitious with stuff that's in the final game.
Also, having to teach the teams what Sonic is about was hard to do in a short amount of time? Besides it probably being better to get people who would know how to make a Sonic game to reinvent the series, the final game feels like it was designed by people who didn't know anything about the series aside from Sonic and Tails' personalities and only halfway through development got to know that Sonic is supposed to be fast.
I feel bad for Stephen for having such a bad game on his name, and I can get it if he really thinks that the game was good. But at the same time, so much of what he says doesn't match up with what the ended up in the game that it's hard for me to believe that he was being honest here.
ThePrinceOfSaiyans reacted to Sami in Stephen Frost talks about Sonic Boom (franchise & game)
I genuinely want this and I don't care what anyone says
ThePrinceOfSaiyans got a reaction from Monkey Destruction Switch in Why does Sticks exist?
She exists because people find paranoia humorous...? I don't know. I personally think Sonic, Tails, Amy and Knuckles create a perfectly reasonable dynamic. Sticks is just sorta... there, as far as I'm concerned.