Sonikko

Which one exactly? Because they all look really bad to me.

The Zip-Lines were hardly the highlight for me in SS, what I loved was how the 3D sections could be approached with the Air Boost. It let you blast through the mandatory blocky platforming sections, and it's kinda the equivalent of what the classic games did. It's a pretty different way to achieve the same result, that's what I'd like to see out of the boost formula, if 3D physics based platforming isn't what they want to do. Seaside Hill had a good beginning section, the later half isn't that great, but I love the first 10-15 seconds.

That's because their approach is mostly 2D than 3D. Even in the 3D sections they design the game like they would design a 2D one. If they really expanded the boost formula in 3D it could be pretty good, not ideal, but pretty good. Some sections of Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill were great, I can't see why they can't have a whole game built out of that, a quality 3D product, instead of having a 2D game with a behind-the-shoulder perspective. EDIT: Proof:

Going from Adventure 1 to Adventure 2 the level design changed quite a bit in Sonic stages. You'd need Adventure 1 level design, expand on that (a LOT since the game came out 20 years ago...), fix the physics, and then you'd have a game that plays like Sonic. The point is that while that sounds like a logical conclusion to us, it probably wasn't to Sonic Team back then, so Heroes took what SA2 did and streamlined it, Shadow took what Heroes did and made it worse + labyrinths, 06 went back to Adventure 1 but heavily botched it up. Unleashed was a rewrite, but one that doesn't hold up for long since once you take out the QTEs and add a stable framerate to the mix, the player's engagement falls apart.

The issue isn't with people speaking their minds, it's with Sonic Team or who for them takes some decisions. They have no idea what to do, no clear direction, and it's totally not our fault. If they didn't have 6 different gameplay styles in the first place in Adventure, this would've never happened. They created so many different sub-franchises with Sonic that it's mind baffling. What is even "Sonic" anymore? When the Sonic games that are coming out barely play like Sonic in the first place. Again, it's not the fan's or the critics' fault. If they can't pick a direction, a good one for god's sake, and keep it, then it's on them, not us. EDIT: If people said "More Sonic Unleashed day stages" and they went with Colours that plays nothing like Unleashed it's not our fault.

3D Sonic doesn't work because the games aren't good. 3D Sonic can be awesome, and a time out won't do any good, they just need a different direction. Forces is the product of a 5 year hiatus on Sonic Team's part. Look at what that brought us.

@Chris Knopps You sure have a vivid imagination! I think some things in those games shouldn't be analyzed from a story or lore perspective, since things have to work out in gameplay first, and more often than not they don't have an explanation in the respective lores of games. Like powerups in Mario or floating rings in Sonic. Not being able to collect rings is one of those instances! It is a nice point of view though.

Leaked level list? Where?

0:33 is the worst offender, but it has pieces and bits of the old GHZ thrown around and sticked together. Thank you, I really enjoy constructive discussions too. We all have different opinions, but engaging in a discussion and keeping up the pace isn't something everyone is able to do. Just look at how many times I get called a hater on here .

Cycle accurate emulators are a great thing indeed, but for the standard user they have little use. It's great that an accurate emulator exists for the Genesis, but the Sonic trilogy doesn't need one. As long as the physics don't get bugged up like in the Retroarch cores then it's all good. I'd suggest using Kega Fusion.

Forces GHZ takes layouts from Sonic 1 GHZ too and places them out of context and without integrating them well like the original game did. Besides that Mania's Act1 are almost exact recreations, but Act 2s is where the fun is at. Well, there's no way to vote with our money on that, it's either the whole package or nothing. All we can do is be loud about it, and we are doing that. Besides that, again, Mania isn't just rehashing just aesthetics, those remixed levels are built with a solid foundation, they actually know what they're doing with the source material. It's not just the level theme being reused, the Act 2s are great.

Almost nobody considers the returning levels a positive, everyone here would've liked a Mania with all new zones. Everyone suggests a Mania 2 with all new zones, I don't see where you're coming from. All we're saying is that at least Mania is not screwing remixing the old zones up. EDIT: It's actually doing pretty well in mixing them up, the second Acts look awesome and completely new, actually. They actually bring new things, they expand on the original concepts. Forces GHZ just looks like a subpar GHZ clone just with sand on the background, it doesn't even have a function in the actual level.

If the shareholders or the higher ups want an action game in the style of God of War because they sell at the time, with Sonic's face on the box, ST has to do it.

You're completely missing the point, Mania isn't just rehashing aesthetics, Mania is taking those original ideas and expanding them perfectly. Forces is rehashing aesthetics just for nostalgia, that's the difference between the two approaches.

First of all, one game gets it right and the other doesn't. Second thing, we all moaned about the classic levels coming back once again, but at least the Mania team is doing it competently and bringing something actually new to the table, while having to work with restrictions. My point still stands, would it have been a better game? Probably yes, but it would've never been a great game, level design direction, gameplay direction, combat, and all those things are decided early on. They even patched out all the glitches from the final version, the game's still bad.