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Diogenes last won the day on May 26

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  1. Utopia's controls aren't perfect, but they're about as good as 3D Sonic controls have ever been, and combined with its mechanics it's the best example of how 3D Sonic should play thus far. Throw some more polish at it and put it in a more focused level and it'll be something genuinely great, far above what Sonic Team's managed with the series.
  2. It's not a speedrunner thing, the point is that a small wall isn't going to do much to stop players from going around or through the middle of a loop (which is safe and easy) rather than actually doing the loop. Anyway I think if you're going to give the player full control in a loop, you've got to move away from the traditional loop design. I think something more corkscrew shaped would work better; it's more of a twist than a flip, which should be easier on the camera, and it separates the beginning and the end so the player can't just jump across the middle like in the traditional loop.
  3. I think those are really two different things. Uncharted and Tomb Raider (I assume, I haven't seen much of the latter) use one main gameplay style, but it's robust enough that it can do different things. There are some areas that focus on traversal and some that focus on combat, but the mechanics aren't entirely separate, it's not like you're trading out one moveset for another. The game can put the focus on one or the other, or it can challenge you with both at once (I know for sure that a big part of Uncharted is using your traversal mechanics to get the drop on enemies), or it can quickly and seamlessly alternate between the two. Uncharted might have you climb a wall, stealth takedown a guy, swing from a grapple, and shoot another guy in mid swing, and that keeps traversal and combat linked, even if they're not used together constantly over the whole game. On the other hand with 3D Sonic games the mechanics are entirely separate. There's absolutely no interplay between, for example, the boost and the grappling hook, because the two abilities exist on entirely different characters in entirely different levels.
  4. Give Eggman a game. Something action-puzzle-platformy, where you've got various weapons/gadgets on foot, then you jump in the Eggmobile for boss fights and general destruction. Come up with some rival villain for him to fight so you can have him win while still preserving the status quo.
  5. "Functional" isn't good enough. "Functional" is absolute bare minimum, not something worth paying for, not something worth taking up 1/3 of a game. Gens Classic, and by all indications Forces Classic, isn't even a good platformer, before even considering if it's good Sonic gameplay. Without proper momentum and slope physics, what momentum he does have just makes him feel clumsy and unresponsive, and there's basically no interesting mechanics to make up for the lack of the classic mechanics. It's a game where you do really basic and boring platforming with awkward controls between getting thrown around by boost pads and springs. Yes, but why do you think that's a meaningful response to the complaint? It's story bloat, time needs to be taken to explain why these characters are now on Team Evil and what all this "alternate dimension" bullshit is about, and it's going to get less time because of the focus Classic Sonic is going to get.
  6. First off: I didn't. So any talk of "well it was fine in Generations!" doesn't have any bearing on my opinion. Second: It plays like garbage. Based on videos, based on how he played in Generations, based on how Sonic Team basically never cares about actually improving their games, I already know it's lazy, soulless, and they made basically no effort to actually make classic Sonic gameplay. And no, being 2.5D isn't an excuse; no one's asking for line-for-line identical code, we're asking for the mechanics, level design, and overall gameplay concepts that made the Genesis games so much fun to play, which are just as valid whether you're dealing with 2d sprites or 3d models. Third, it exists to exploit nostalgia and little more. As established, it plays like garbage. The only value it has is in allowing Sonic Team to say "hey look we brought back the Sonic that you like!" with minimal effort on their part. As someone who loves actual classic Sonic games, it's insulting. Fourth, it's holding back the possibility of fully 3D Sonic games. Among other reasons, of course, but that people are willing to accept this means that Sonic Team can continue using 2D gameplay as a crutch and never have to bother making a proper 3D Sonic game. Fifth, it's redundant. If people want a Classic Sonic fix, Mania is doing it infinitely better. Even if Forces started development earlier and Classic Sonic was already included before Mania came about, the end result is that we're getting a really good classic styled game, and another game that is a mess of ideas with Classic Sonic awkwardly, lazily shoved in there. Sixth, Forces is bloated. Two Sonics, your own Original the Character, six villains (some of which shouldn't even be villains), and some kind of dimensional bullshit going on...the game's juggling so many different ideas and elements and I don't trust Sonic Team at all to keep them all up in the air. So far Classic Sonic seems entirely extraneous, and not having him in the game would've allowed for more time to explore elements of the game that aren't just nostalgia pandering.
  7. Yeah they're all the same modern-Chaos-Emerald style cut, it's just that a few of them are at weird angles and with the semitransparencies and reflections it's easy to lose track of the exact shape.
  8. Yeah, I'm not surprised, it wouldn't have been worth the effort to program the mechanics, make/update the art and music for multiple time periods, possibly adjust the level design on top of that, just for one zone and for a mechanic that was never actually fun anyway. Can't say it wouldn't have been neat to see the different time periods of course, but not nearly neat enough to justify the effort.
  9. I mean, that's surely how it started, right? They're making this big huge game with a bunch of villains and they made Shadow one "just because", and then they have to come up with an explanation for it afterwards.
  10. Zavok is maybe the most boring of an already pretty shallow group of characters. He's pretty much just The Leader, a serious-minded tough guy ordering his team around. The other Zeti are hardly complex characters, but there's at least some fun to be found in Zazz's hyperactive enthusiasm, Zor's overdramatic depression and nihilism, and even Zomom's "I'm big fat and dumb!" personality. And to what extent he and the other Zeti work, I think they work better as a group than any does alone. Individually they're all pretty shallow, but together they at least make up an eclectic group of assholes that can play off each other as much as off the heroes. Plucking Zavok out of his group and sticking him in Forces feels like a bad move because it takes him out of his role as the leader of the Zeti, he doesn't have much personality to contribute to Team Evil, and he's never even interacted with anyone but Sonic, Tails, and Eggman (and depending on how the story goes he might not even have that).
  11. Why should we trust Sonic Team? What in the past 20 or so years justifies us trusting in Sonic Team's writing decisions? Like, sure, they'll almost certainly have some kind of explanation for all this shit. But it's not about having any explanation, it's about having a good explanation. And I don't see that happening, because the closest thing I can think of to a good explanation is, as you said, that these are different versions of the characters, which is still a really bad explanation.
  12. Long hair. That's probably more justification than is even necessary given that (as Jez said) it's basically a superpower, or at the very least a cartoony abstraction. It's not like there's all that much reason to how regular old hedgehog Sonic does what he does either; sure, hedgehogs can curl up, but they typically don't roll around at high speeds, smash through robots, or spin in place and then suddenly dash off. Having a human do it is only slightly more ridiculous.
  13. Well of course it's not a different genre, I'm saying it's not the same style. So if someone says Forces shows Sonic Team sticking to and iterating on one style...that's clearly not what it's doing.
  14. Considering how much the boost and the wispons define each style I can't see how they can be considered the same at all.
  15. ...by making a game with 3 gameplay styles?