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Everything posted by Diogenes

  1. Ok? I'm aware it doesn't have to be gory or entirely tasteless, I've seen the scene in question. That was never actually the point.
  2. Is it really that hard to make an educated guess as to why someone might not be terribly fond of it? Even I'm not so cynical as to think the shooting death of a child is trivial. Look, I'm not making these arguments because I'm squeamish or prudish, or that I have some absolutist moral issue with fictional children being fictionally harmed. Case in point, my favorite currently-airing anime has a 13 year old girl's face get ripped off, and I consider it rad as hell. But I think we can all agree that that wouldn't be appropriate in Sonic the Hedgehog, a series where magic rings protect the hero from any real injury and where the bad guy's lair can explode around him doing him no more damage than some cracked glasses and scuff marks. It's not a series where severe physical injuries "exist", even when characters get beaten up, even when they get killed. Likewise, different series handle deaths and killing in different ways. Sometimes it's realistic and dignified, sometimes it's a bloody slaughterfest, sometimes it's abstracted and sanitized. Sonic falls into the last category; most games don't involve any deaths (aside from robots and monsters we can easily not care about), and when there is a significant death, it's usually offscreen, always bloodless, occurs in some "unreal" manner, and is occasionally reversed by the end of the story. Sonic characters don't die realistically in the same way they don't get injured realistically. When they killed Sonic in '06, it was from a monster shooting a magic laser that basically just knocked him out for an hour before he got kissed back to life. Maria gets shot by a soldier. Yes, it's offscreen, there's no blood, and she's helping her bioengineered half-hedgehog half-alien adopted brother(?) escape a space station at the time; it's still sterilized and unreal to some extent. But it's a lot more real and a lot more grounded than any death in the series before or any death after. It sticks out from the tone and setting of the rest of the series (even as inconsistent as they've been). There's any number of stories that could be written, and any number of ways to write this kind of story, without feeling like a plot point from an entirely different series wandered in. I don't want kids getting shot by soldiers in my colorful superpowered animal action series any more than I want magic lasers that do no identifiable damage in my dark gory horror/comedy series. It's the wrong tool for the job, it pushes me out rather than drawing me in. In conclusion, watch Dorohedoro. It's sure as shit a better story than any Sonic game.
  3. Okay so is it possible, maybe, to do this without things like shooting children? Or is an action story only valid if there's a certain amount of death in it? Don't pretend like you've done it any less.
  4. Let's have Eggman shoot Tails in the face next game. It will be Very Mature, and therefore good. And it's a different kind of story, so nobody can complain.
  5. You can write meaningful stories without death at all. It doesn't have to be nothing but whimsy. And the number of deaths isn't the only factor. It is different for a bunch of faceless background characters to get killed offscreen by a monster in a far-past flashback, compared to a young girl we (somewhat) get to know and who has a strong connection to a main character being shot. It's not impossible to draw a line that includes one but not the other.
  6. That exists entirely in response to Sonic. You cannot have Metal Sonic without Sonic. Not just in the sense that the designers made him in response to Sonic, not just that Eggman created him in response to Sonic, but that his role as a character is fundamentally to be a response to Sonic. You take Sonic out of the equation and Metal ceases to be a meaningful, coherent character.
  7. Metal Sonic exists specifically in relation to Sonic. He's not an independent character, he's a response, he doesn't make sense without the context of what he's a response to. Shadow starts off looking like he's going to be a response but his similarities to Sonic end up being coincidental and his story spins off in a completely different direction. There's a weird tension to the character where they treat him almost as if he's the protagonist of an entirely separate series but there's no way to escape that he's Dark Sonic for no reason.
  8. SA2's style didn't come completely out of nowhere but that doesn't mean it can't be considered the tipping point where things had changed too much from what they had previously been.
  9. How's there any difference? The Adventure-'06 era does its own thing, different from the classic games, the Colors-Forces era does its own thing, different from the Adventure era. If it justifies one it should justify both.
  10. If we've accepted Chaos, the Black Arms, Iblis and its spawn, and Dark Gaia and its minions as part of the series, I don't see why there should be any concern with the D6's designs fitting in.
  11. real nice how vesperia's coliseum puts a single character against multiple opponents (probably the battle system's biggest weakness), expects you to beat it with every playable character including ones that can't reliably outpace enemy attacks, and includes a "boss" that can just instakill you after landing enough attacks so you can't even grind levels to cheese it.

    because i totally didn't get stunlocked in a corner by 3 enemies and then instantly killed with no apparent way out, and i am definitely not mad right now

  12. Omega absolutely could've waited in that room, guarding Shadow, as Eggman presumably intended. He wouldn't have liked it, but, well, that's him making the choice whether to continue following Eggman's orders or to rebel.
  13. You reap what you sow. Every game, cartoon, comic, and now movie is somebody's first exposure to the series and it's gone off in such different directions that it can't even nearly please everyone at once. It sucks, and obviously it doesn't justify the worst actions/attitudes among fans, but this was just about inevitable with the way the series was handled and there's no easy solution to it. Best they can do is find something that works to stabilize the series around for a while and try to build a more stable identity and fanbase even if that means some fans drift away. Obviously, though, they should choose to do All Of The Things That I Want, instead of the things other people want.
  14. I mean, think about how much the existence of SatAM has affected the series and the fanbase, though. SatAM brought in a fanbase that far outlasted the cartoon itself, it had a huge influence on Archie Sonic which accumulated its own fans, the two series had an (admittedly minor) impact on the games via Spinball and Chronicles, and a lot of the creative team from late Archie Sonic is now on IDW Sonic. There are still arguments about putting the Freedom Fighters in the games, decades after the cartoon they were created for was cancelled. The movie could end up being as formative for a lot of new/young fans as SatAM was in its day, especially if it ends up getting the sequels everyone is suddenly expecting. There's no telling what kind of fan desires are going to crop up because of it or what Sega/Sonic Team might do to try to harness that part of the fanbase.
  15. I wouldn't say harmless. It's not impossible to work around, but Sonic in particular has really struggled with its identity, and the movie being a completely different take on...basically everything about Sonic, means it's one more interpretation that it has to deal with, whether it's pursuing it, rejecting it, or finding some sort of compromise.
  16. Not what I actually said. I'm tired of going in circles on this subject so, whatever, I'm out.
  17. Again, my point is not that no characters are ever allowed to die. It's that you should not act like the worst possible outcomes of the villain's actions were ever seriously on the table. Eggman was never actually going to get to laze entire countries off the map in SA2. This isn't the kind of series that would do that kind of massacre. You're not supposed to look at that and seriously consider the staggering loss of life, the enormity of the tragedy, that would occur if it happened in real life; you're supposed to take it as the over-the-top doomed-to-fail supervillain plan that it is. Eggman isn't a horrifying monster, he's a clown.
  18. Literally everybody is going to be back to flesh and blood by the end of this arc. But this is the kind of un-real series that has avoided it, far more often than not. Blow a chunk out of the moon and then immediately forget about it because it doesn't affect anything. "All's well that ends well", as they stand in the flooded ruins of a city.
  19. Implications are one thing, but they never actually lead where they could, because this isn't the kind of series where the villain is going to shoot a 12 year old in the head. Eggman's a bad guy, he does bad things that, in the real world, would lead to people being killed, but he gets stopped before that happens, because this is a series about colorful superpowered funny animals, not a gritty drama.
  20. You're not supposed to overthink it. Take the game's tone at its word, don't assume the existence of bodies that are never seen or referenced in any way.
  21. "Sonic" and "RPG" are about as diametrically opposed as you can get. It'd be hard to find a proper compromise between a series based on speedy action/platforming that's always struggled with its storytelling and a genre typically based on slow, methodical (often even turn-based) strategy and a heavy focus on storytelling, if it's possible at all. I'd be interested in seeing someone try to solve the problem in a creative way, but if it was just going to be standard RPG design with Sonic characters slapped on, I'd pass on it.
  22. ...they were directly relevant to the plot in the first game, just that they were only explained in the manual, because the game had no dialogue and practically no cutscenes.
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