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  1. No what's "Fail" is that you can't see homosexuality as a liberal issue considering you are pro beastiality...AND a lesbian. I'm quite shocked really. That doesn't actually help you. By conservative standards homosexuality was considered a disease. The more progressive standard is that it is natural and biological.You need to understand that politics consist of "people" and therefore "traits" people have can be considered progressive or conservative, and can thus be embraced by a political party. People who politically consider themselves conservative affiliate with more traditional human traits/behaviors/etc. whereas people who consider themselves more liberal associate with less traditional trais and behaviors in society Seriously, most of the kids and people reading this book are comming into the book with or without their own biases that come from their parents, the media, social institutions (where kids play the "are you gay" game) and so on. They're not getting ruffled JUST because this book is telling them to. Secondly I think you are missing the point. If say, Mighty and Ray are holding hands in Echidnanopolis and an echidna makes a face or says something nasty it doesn't mean we're dissuading or persuading people to be "ruffled" and hateful towards the gay experience, but, just like women's issues, be aware these problems exist. It wouldn't be any more than we expect them to be "ruffled" when Nate had juice poured down his back for being an overlander. It is simply the portrayl of the experience for better or for worse. Not pretending it doesn't exist. And I don't mean just for Rotor, I mean for future characters that might be portrayed gay in the future. I'm not saying they're not equal as people, but I'm saying they're going to through different obstacles traditional couples face.Thats like saying female social issues in the book should not be touched on because females are equal, when the issue is more or less to portray the femal e expereince in ways females can relate to, not demean them as individuals . We are, just like gays are, defined by the many struggles in life we have. Even if for no other reason it gives us more strgnth than more privledged people have. Even if the Mobian society was accepting towards the gay issue, the same problem with Sally being too distant from women's issues would become a problem for people with gay issues but on a much more broader scale because it's the whole society. I'm not speaking on behalf of preference, rather than practicality. Number one, this book is in the CRITICAL low numbers for them to risk the readers, and I personally could hold out on something like this issue until the numbers stabilize. It's not like Marvel or DC where they could risk lesbian and gay couples without worrying over the readerbase. Number two, If anyone's the hypocrite...weren't you the one bawwing about Sally being possibly transgender and thereby being gay with Sonic?
  2. No offense flyboy, but this is comming from the same guy who said he wouldn't have sex with a dog JUST because he had a girlfriend. The problem with that is that interracial marriage is a more socially accepted issue than homosexuality, as racism has been treated with political incorrectness, so you are outwardly expected to accept it. However homosexuality is CERTAINLY not at that point yet and is still openly met with hostility. So? Why isn't she mad? And why didn't Amy take that approach? And its not a matter of disagreeing with them, its for her betraying their trust or mistreating Sonic. Very valid reasons to hate her for. Amy if in character wouldn't have declined putting Sally in her place to do whats right regardless. And Sally has flaws that actually get consequence? the whole essence of this discussion is because not even Sonic's love interests hate her for when she does something REALLY wrong to them.
  3. Umm so why didn't Mina slap Sally for trying to give her tips on how to get Sonic, but then tiptoes and takes Sonic from her anyway despite knowing Mina liked him? Second of all it's still inconsistent because Amy didn't hesitate to confront Sally about things she felt were important like why she wasn't allowed to be a freedom fighter, but won't confront Sally about something that'd probably be equally if not more important, like about how Sally slapped Sonic? Amy wasn't raised by Sally, she's only been with them for a year at BEST before her physical change, and if anything Sally was a thorn in her side for joining the freedom fighters, and blamed it on trying to keep her away from Sonic, while they reward Tails to be a freedom fighter despite his reckless decision to go solo. Tails may've faced more perils, but they chose to make him a freedom fighter right after doing something that could've gotten him killed. Soooo can you still explain why Mina didn't slap her? Or why an older Amy didn't slap her? Umm no that wasn't what she was saying at all. Ken's writing is liberal to the degree that it feels like his writing is just there to make a point and not actually be entertaining. He's so consumed by his political messages, that it supercedes his ability to tell a story. He cares more about preaching about what women should be (i.e by altering Sally's original character) than just telling a story. He wants to be "feminist" but he comes from such social privledge that he doesn't know how to be pro woman and depict many different types of women who can maintain dignity and respect. I'm not. Mainly because of the fact that it feels like the writers would come across as cold and indifferent to the struggles that gay people have to go through because of their sexuality in the real world, a world where gay acceptance may be increasing, but is not nationwide. Not to mention it's practically not sensitive enough towards the people who aren't pro gay, and wouldn't want their children reading a book with gay characters in it. A comic book such as this one that is damn sure not Marvel's calibur is not going to pave the golden way for gay acceptance. So this book shouldn't have the conceited aim that it will, and at the very most focus rather on the fact that this is a real issue. This is a kids comic, and at the very least if you're going to expose kids to this (possibly without the consent of the parents who may not know until it's too late that you're putting this in it), you should at least present it as it is without the context of the story taking sides: A divided issue that has its advantages and disadvantages. the problem with a storyline like this is that it can make Sonic seem too insensitive a particular side should he take one. Actually he DID like Sally when she was disguised as a sorceress....and wanted to marry her
  4. Meh, back on topic. Do you have any idea how contradictory that sounds? The tomboy part is a disclaimer so that people understand that despite the fact she's a princess she's not "girly" otherwise they wouldn't have to put the tomboy part there. Thats like saying Iron Queen. Tomboy Queen. Queen of what exactly? This sounds silly to us, but we're fans, and people who have some knowledge of the book or watched SatAM. Fresh readers won't. And if the book didn't care about fresh readers it needs to stop wasting our time refreshing who these characters are. It doesn't really tell new people what she does, it just tells us some fancy title she has. Thats like me, a new reader seeing Princess Tiara Boobowski clobbering heads of a few bots with Sonic. I have no idea who she is on the virtue of just the title. Now, Princess of the city would help a little, although more vague to her connection with the Sonic as the FF's leader. Again, the whole aim is just to sell Sally by making her a tomboy that is actually rebelling against the girly girl model hence the disclaimer that she's a tomboy. Which wouldn't be annoying if the assumption was that being anti-girly is favorable and thus rebelling against it is more sellable. All I'm saying is that they should've just left this whole damn issue alone and never started picking sides. EDIT: And Blazey...your signature would be the poster image for "surprise buttsecks" macros everywhere ~
  5. Any time you have someone retcon Sally's girly girl persona for a tomboy for no apparent reason, there's no "might" to it. I'm only blowing a storm per se, because sexist undertones are almost always subtle in this day and age, and shedding light on the hints of it may make it come off as melodramatic, which is a bit embarassing for me to come across I admit. But look at the bigger picture and read between the lines to understand why this annoys me. "Tomboy Princess" only sells Sally. Not Sonic, or anything relative to the book because her connection to it is never mentioned. But just Sally. Take it further, and then it implies that instead of her relevence to the plot, her tomboy personality is what people need really to know about her, because tomboys apparently sell themselves, and are therefore "better". This book has been REALLY trying hard to "sell" Sally since issue 18 or so. Actually in the early comics that was not the case. Again, when Ken came along that all changed. EDIT: Not true. Its a bit of a gray area what it means to each individual. There are people who subscribe to the physical sex to constitute sexuality but then again that becomes problematic because There are transgendered people who consider themselves lesbians for example because despite being physically male they feel they are women inside despite their physical sex, and see themselves as lesbians if they are attracted to other women. Moreover said woman might consider herself gay if she's attracted to a transgender female who is physically male.
  6. I think what's incredibly offensive is the fact that Sally's brief introduction on the front page to the readers is simply "tomboy princess" as you said Miko. The description "Tomboy princess" does relatively nothing for newer readers just getting into the book (the people who would actually NEED a refresher of whose who). "Tomboy princess" only gives us a clue of a personality trait. That doesn't tell us what's her connection to Sonic (i.e leader of the freedom fighter, princess of the city, Sonic's love interest, etc.) that makes her actually relavent to the story, something newer readers need to KNOW upon reading, whereas a personality trait is more minor detail and should be SHOWN to the viewer in-story, not told (remember creative writing class in high school Ian? Number 1 rule). You don't see Amy described simply as a "girly girl". It almost implies that Sally's tomboyishness is to be recognized, while girlishness is not, which is really offensive to the girls who really are girly. I'm really tired of Archie's psuedo feminist bullshit activism. For the past 15+ years all they've done is pretty much smush in our face how wonderful tomboyish women are girl power. We get the point Archie. Now please shut the hell up about it. This comic hasn't left the 1990's on this women's subject , because they always portray tomboy females as if you'd think its as if this comic is so undersaturated with tomboys that this is a revolution! (which is cleeeeeearly not true)
  7. Haha...unfortunately... no. Knuckles was MUCH more complicated than that. That's not including how Dimitri and Edmund split ways to form the Guardians and the Dark Legion. It's not including how Knuckles was abandoned in order to train to become a useful guardian and was separated from his mother who divorced his father who remarried some dude and had a kid by said dude named Mace. Nor does it go into how Julie-su was the half sister of Kragok and Lien-da who are related of a long list of characters who are decendents of Dimitri. And because of them she lost her mother in an accident, and then they disinherited her, and then and gave her to a new family which is the source of all the exceptional hatred between Julie-su and Lien-da in the comics. Don't even get me started on the Dingoes, Remington, and the characters in Echidnanoplolis which emerged from a seperate zone ignited by the Ultimate Annihilator and Albion. That said, Knuckles' storyline is WAAY too convulted. What's worse is that Lara-Le and her husband aside (and this is assuming that they never show up again which is unlikely), is that most of the characters in Knuckles inner circle weigh the story down with excessive backstory and things you need to know. Primarily Julie-su, the Dark Legion, and the Guardians. But Knuckles aside..the thing I keep running into is the fact that to my knowledge, Ian has no plan as to keep the books from competing with one another. If person A just wants to see more Knuckles or Shadow for instance, and the only reason they pick up the main book just to see them, wouldn't it make more sense if they dropped the book in favor of Sonic Universe since there's a better chance you'd see them in there than the main book? I mean if I had to choose between Sonic and the lesser characters I'd at least try to salvage Sonic's book first. Moreover, the problem with this book is that if you focus on the minor characters that the main book just can't touch on and have been here since FOREVER (let alone from an out of print book like Knuckles but I digress), you end up having to deal with all that backstory they had with them making it considerably difficult to get into since the book is an extension of the main book's storyline. Starting mid storyline with these characters is going to get incredibly confusing and is more trouble than it's worth. I don't even get what the point of Sonic Universe is, these characters have already developed the critical dynamics neccessary for us to understand their backstory in the main comics since this seems to be starting midway, which renders it useless to try to make a book (or at least this story in particular) to get us to get to know these characters "better". Essentially sayng "everything from 180-184" is a really crappy way of explaining things to the readers. The intention of a spin off book should be to let this book stand on it's own without needing to know all the friggin backstory of the previous book because you can't expect people to be able to afford BOTH books, especially kids...let alone from a story going on 2 years old which they might not be able to grab FRESH from the STANDS. ...*facepalm*
  8. Psssh. Ian's no saint either, especially after stealing from STC and Dan Drazen's Bunnie Meets a Bunnie *eyerolls*. Ian is also a huge liar, so I don't want to even hear about any "morality" bitching. And good god. Tikchaos. Seriously WHAT THE FUCK? That is quality writing right there. Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse Ian exceeds my expectations by pulling a dragon ball GT fusion out his ass. By the by. Let's see how long it takes Ian to realize the iron queen is going to get contrived with too much continuity and backstory to stay timeless and easy to get into for newer readers. *facepalm*
  9. Its one thing to do this out of ignorance. But Ian was made aware of his flaw of logic and went through with it anyway so he earns no sympathy. And writers need to aim to have credibility otherwise the readers will not hold them as credible sources for telling the story because they're inconsistent with their writing too much. Lastly again, Ian gets PAID to do this. He's read the comic years before he was hired and its his job to keep up with it. He has no excuse to be this clumsy. He read the story, and he know he did thats why it was alluded to when General D'Coolette died. My problem with this is that they ARE minimal characters given the TITLE as first tier characters that serve a minimal purpose to Sonic's story.They always have been because they weren't made to be significant characters to Sonic's personality since it was Sally's job to be his perfect foil because she's pretty much the only one lecturing him for his flaws. They only act as a bunch of characters throwing punches on a page and that's it. They are created to serve a purpose to be apart of filler fighting scenes. 1) That doesn't mean it's good writing first of all just because it was in a long series. 2) Filler is what happens when nothing impacts to the main protagonist's storyline when you emphasize on something that doesn't have to do with their storyline, and is typically frowned upon. Secondly I think you're overgeneralizing side stories. Another character may have a side story because they earn character development that may affect the main character later, even if the main character had nothing to do with that story when it was being told. Or the core cast branches out and disconnects with each other, affecting the main character because they were initially close, causing character development for the character and ultimately their personality. These are totally different from what I'm arguing. I'm saying the freedom fighters were branched out from the start. They were not a close nit group that branched apart. The story may've tried to present them as such, but they didn't really have anything to offer Sonic's personality that could really made them close to him, because Sally was the one who served to make Sonic's life functional, as she was the only one who practically scolded him on all his flaws. Too much character development makes the story contrived. But when I think of the next big thing I think of the next manfight filler and it's kinda like "mmmmyeah...that's nice." I didn't say that. I said that the main cast is here for older readers as older readers would understand them best. But Ian wants to leave the status quo the older readers liked pushing them away. While the newer readers left don't really have a clue who these characters are because they're too young to remember characters going on 20 years old. Its not even a matter of tossing the old or the new characters out, it is redetermining their role to the storyline. Personally I don't think its too much of a hassle because the freedom fighters were never that close to Sonic. So I personally don't even think it's even a matter of redetermining, but Sonic just openly acknowledging this, finally. Second of all, if a comic is to survive, it needs a sense of buisness practicality. If you don't have a targetted audience, you're going to lack stability in order to sell. Ian has no focus in terms of who he's selling this book to. Interesting has nothing to do with it. When I say contrived, I mean their character has become too full of continuity, backstory, status quo flip flopping, and plotholes that all serve to make the book very hard to get into. Other long running comics have done this for decades by simply pulling a crisis of infinite earths, which isn't exactly going to solve the problem of how we'd continue the book as it is without retconning the whole storyline. If Ian lied to keep any of the other character out of the book, it still wouldn't make it right.
  10. Too much action gets boring too because action in this book such as this, action is just a means to an end. We know Sonic isn't going to die in the end of the battle or there'd be no more comics. So a good deal of it is simply filler villain of the issue combat.
  11. No he's been made aware of this on his boards. We talked about this on his forums. Second of all, its his JOB to keep up with previous issues, and he's been reading the comic before he was hired. Again, there's no excuse for this. He.Should.Just.Be.Honest.
  12. Mina's personality and physical abilities were more than ready by angels to be a freedom fighter. Melody emphasizes that the physical ability traits Mina has are already adequate for being a freedom fighter, which emphasizes that Ian's full of shit. As usual. If you have no idea what we mean by it then how can you see an instance of a main character used as such? When I say canon fodder I mean that Rotor is essentially there to entertain the battlefeild. Be it with gadgets or what not. No there is. Sonic actually stands out LESS because the characters are not emphasizing his personality traits by being foils to them. Second of all, because they don't affect Sonic, they're not really the central cast anymore because they're don't significantly affect Sonic's personality at all. They're not "close" enough to Sonic to be branded that role. And my thing is, its technically ok if thats what you perfer. But it becomes a problem when characters that don't really emphasize anything about Sonic's personality just sit there taking top tier roles when they're really 2nd to 3rd tier characters judging by how they're characterized. If Sonic has no drama, or no real problems there really isn't any conflict in the book because it'd only be looked upon as filler because it has no connection to the main character who is supposed to BE the story. No it wasn't. Because its too many many characters. 2-3 times the logical limit you learn to keep in your basic creative writing class. And the problem now lies in the fact that new readers aren't going to KNOW they're the heart and soul of the comic because they're too young and the FF's are too OLD. Secondly, despite using a contrived main cast, Ian wants to move away from the actual SatAM status quo, which is pushing those older fans who might've kept to the book away. That doesn't change the fact that the main book has a bunch of contrived characters taking the lead roles, making it hard to get into for newer readers, despite leaving the status quo making it difficult for older readers to want to stay. Sonic Universe has its own problems but I'm just going to keep to the main book to keep the focus simple. Just because the FF cast was there from the beginning doesn't mean that younger viewers were here since the beginning and understand anything about the book if they're just comming in. To them, all they see is a bunch of characters that they don't recognize that makes the book too hard to get into because, they were as you said, here from the beginning. Simple. Ian says Mina isn't a freedom fighter because she doesn't have the ability despite the fact that Sonic Angels proved she had no ability problem emotionally, or physically, and then to top it all off he makes her daughter with the same physical abilities as her a freedom fighter after saying she didn't have the "ability". He just needs to stop lying and just be honest with people because its just petty shit like this that makes people think he's too wrapped up in ulterior motives and pairing agendas to give an honest answer anymore, second to the Julian debate.
  13. Wait....I just realized something. So technically what your saying is that only Ian's opinion matters because he's the writer. That means under the context of your own arguement your opinion doesn't matter and we can ignore your opinon. So no offense, but why are you here?
  14. I'm not going to connect the dots for you with your arguement, you either be specific or abandon ship. Furthermore, Ian didn't say it was Mina's personality that hindered her to become a freedom fighter otherwise Sonic Angels would've shot him in the foot. All he said was her ABILITY was what made Mina incapable. Melody has paralell ABILITIES to Mina. 1. The freedom fighters weren't designed to be Sonic's main cast, despite what the story is trying to indicate. At best most of them were Sally's main cast, Bunnie was Sally's cheerleader, Antoine was the comic relief that swooned over Sally. None of them really addressed Sonic's flaws to make his life more functional because Sally was supposed to be his ideal foil. To make them otherwise would cheapen the dynamic between Sonic and Sally because what made it unmistakably unique. Sally always lecturing Sonic whenever he does something wrong or whenever a flaw manifests. But because of this, he doesn't have a need for the freedom fighters beyond a casual combat buddy friendship. This isn't addressing just any random fan whim. It's adressing a major problem with the mechanics of chatacter dynamic. So with that, maybe Ian does need to consider giving Sonic characters that were made for HIM. Not for Sally's benefit like Bunnie and Antoine. Not for canon fodder like Rotor. 2. I'm gonna be frank. Ian doesn't even cave to collective fan patterns of particular universes which is why the book is failing. He wants the game cast front and center, but can't let go of the freedom fighters even though its basic knowledge you should never have more than 3-4 main characters, and OBVIOUSLY if you want to appeal to the game fans you need to use THEIR characters, so in the end he appeals to no one using that stunt because all he did was just make the main cast unorganized and the focus of the story unstable. THEN he claims that he doesn't want to add Julian because he adds too much continuity to the book and pissed off the Julian SatAM fans, despite the fact he keeps the freedom fighters despite how just as contrived they are in comparison to newer readers. They're not in mainstream games, and you have to read countless backstory as to how the hell they got from Knothole to New Mobotropolis, the events that shaped characterization in between, the whole Acorn monarchy etc. And these are just a couple examples. Ian isn't aiming for anyone. He's just catering to who anyone who already agrees with his rigid ideals for the comic. And judging by comic sales Flyboy, his vision isn't working any damn way. There is nothing "random" about alot of the fan whims in this book and the correlation the sales had been in decline before the recession. Stop making excuses for the fact Ian's a liar. He should've been honest, end of story instead of pulling ridiculous excuses out his ass. And for FUCKS sake stop saying that I like Mina, I could kinda care less. I mean ok, I think she's "alright" but I'm not pissed because of my undying love for this character I'm pissed because Ian lied. How many damn times do I have to say it to you people?
  15. I didn't say that you cared about Ian. I'm saying that Miko's dislike of Sally isn't what's causing her to look into this. Nor any dislike over Ian. But ignoring that, more importantly, I'm saying none of that changes the fact Ian's lied to keep Mina out of the book over excuses that don't add up. Namely, that Mina doesn't have the capable abilities to be a freedom fighter despite the fact he's made Melody a freedom fighter, and she has the exact same abilities as her mother. Ian needs to quit lying to people over petty shit. He's already hard to trust as it is.
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